Why do most pve players hate pvp?

DieAlteHexe

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

temjiu wrote: »

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. were not worthy because we don't play the hard stuff.
4. Because PvP players disregard PvE players wants and needs when it comes to balance. THEY are more important, thus the impact of changes on PvE are irrelevant. The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of PvP regularly.
6. Because PvP in a PvE game kills the PvE game. And Vice versa if you want to know the truth.

I used to PvP allot ages ago. did the whole gamut in most MMO's I played. Got burnt out on it. Too much toxicity and immature behaviors. I'm watching my son go through the same thing as he is very much into competitive games on his xbox, and I hear all about the horrid behaviors people exemplify in PvP. It's not gotten any better...it's only getting worse.

And add to that, the ego's and disdain that PvP players have for those who simply don't want to deal with it, and the nerf after nerf for classes that really do Impact PvE, but PvP players don't care. They just hop off to their next whine train about X class with Y ability.

I do my best to have patience and understanding with PvP players. It's very sad that many of them don't do the same for PvE. I respect their desire to have a playable PvP element, and there are those PvP players that understand the PvE needs... but they are a rare bird. I don't hate PvP, I just don't have the time and energy for it anymore. with a career and a house and a family to take care of, real life has enough challenges, I play these games to relax and unwind. Don't need some 12 yr old teabagging me an hour after I just put my son on restriction because he was behaving just as poorly.

And the day they take PvP out of my PvE game is the day they will be able to decently balance PvE classes. To be fair, PvE impacts PvP in similar ways (as regards to balance). that is why many MMO's these days are going towards a split skill system, where they can balance PvP and PvE skills separately. ESO needs to do the same, for the benefit of both the PvP and PvE players.

I could substitute PvE every where you wrote PvP with the same truth.
It is immature players and the lack of repercussions hiding behind a screen that cause bad behavior in both PvE and PvP.

So, so, soooooo true. There are some real arse-hats in PvE as well. REAL arse-hats.

Oh tell me about it.

I could share stories up down and sideways about the other side of the spectrum as well as PVP, but PVP's got a particular flavor of toxic if that makes sense.

Yeah, it makes sense. I guess one plus for PvP is that you can (at least try) to clobber the arse-hats. I just have a thick skin from doing CS/TS as a career so it doesn't get to me (PvP or PvE) but I've seen some really nasty PvE folk (other games) in raiding situations. Holy moly.

Doctordarkspawn

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

temjiu wrote: »

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. were not worthy because we don't play the hard stuff.
4. Because PvP players disregard PvE players wants and needs when it comes to balance. THEY are more important, thus the impact of changes on PvE are irrelevant. The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of PvP regularly.
6. Because PvP in a PvE game kills the PvE game. And Vice versa if you want to know the truth.

I used to PvP allot ages ago. did the whole gamut in most MMO's I played. Got burnt out on it. Too much toxicity and immature behaviors. I'm watching my son go through the same thing as he is very much into competitive games on his xbox, and I hear all about the horrid behaviors people exemplify in PvP. It's not gotten any better...it's only getting worse.

And add to that, the ego's and disdain that PvP players have for those who simply don't want to deal with it, and the nerf after nerf for classes that really do Impact PvE, but PvP players don't care. They just hop off to their next whine train about X class with Y ability.

I do my best to have patience and understanding with PvP players. It's very sad that many of them don't do the same for PvE. I respect their desire to have a playable PvP element, and there are those PvP players that understand the PvE needs... but they are a rare bird. I don't hate PvP, I just don't have the time and energy for it anymore. with a career and a house and a family to take care of, real life has enough challenges, I play these games to relax and unwind. Don't need some 12 yr old teabagging me an hour after I just put my son on restriction because he was behaving just as poorly.

And the day they take PvP out of my PvE game is the day they will be able to decently balance PvE classes. To be fair, PvE impacts PvP in similar ways (as regards to balance). that is why many MMO's these days are going towards a split skill system, where they can balance PvP and PvE skills separately. ESO needs to do the same, for the benefit of both the PvP and PvE players.

I could substitute PvE every where you wrote PvP with the same truth.
It is immature players and the lack of repercussions hiding behind a screen that cause bad behavior in both PvE and PvP.

So, so, soooooo true. There are some real arse-hats in PvE as well. REAL arse-hats.

Oh tell me about it.

I could share stories up down and sideways about the other side of the spectrum as well as PVP, but PVP's got a particular flavor of toxic if that makes sense.

Yeah, it makes sense. I guess one plus for PvP is that you can (at least try) to clobber the arse-hats. I just have a thick skin from doing CS/TS as a career so it doesn't get to me (PvP or PvE) but I've seen some really nasty PvE folk (other games) in raiding situations. Holy moly.

That's honestly -where- that type of mentality breeds, the competative types. It's allways raids, it's allways geting the fastest, the best clears, and so on and so fourth, and because of the same values, it has alot of the same issues and attracts alot of the same problem people.

But I dont doubt you've seen some stuff. And a little less meme worthy than the 'moar dots' bit. There are some -seriously- unhinged people at that level.

anitajoneb17_ESO

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

ErMurazor wrote: »

Pveers are just scared thats why they dont pvp. And it takes alot more skill to pvp.

Negatory. Read the thread. There are some interesting responses that might help you to see that your comment is one reason but not THE reason.

The PvPers' responses in this thread explain it all : toxic mentality.

DieAlteHexe

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

temjiu wrote: »

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. were not worthy because we don't play the hard stuff.
4. Because PvP players disregard PvE players wants and needs when it comes to balance. THEY are more important, thus the impact of changes on PvE are irrelevant. The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of PvP regularly.
6. Because PvP in a PvE game kills the PvE game. And Vice versa if you want to know the truth.

I used to PvP allot ages ago. did the whole gamut in most MMO's I played. Got burnt out on it. Too much toxicity and immature behaviors. I'm watching my son go through the same thing as he is very much into competitive games on his xbox, and I hear all about the horrid behaviors people exemplify in PvP. It's not gotten any better...it's only getting worse.

And add to that, the ego's and disdain that PvP players have for those who simply don't want to deal with it, and the nerf after nerf for classes that really do Impact PvE, but PvP players don't care. They just hop off to their next whine train about X class with Y ability.

I do my best to have patience and understanding with PvP players. It's very sad that many of them don't do the same for PvE. I respect their desire to have a playable PvP element, and there are those PvP players that understand the PvE needs... but they are a rare bird. I don't hate PvP, I just don't have the time and energy for it anymore. with a career and a house and a family to take care of, real life has enough challenges, I play these games to relax and unwind. Don't need some 12 yr old teabagging me an hour after I just put my son on restriction because he was behaving just as poorly.

And the day they take PvP out of my PvE game is the day they will be able to decently balance PvE classes. To be fair, PvE impacts PvP in similar ways (as regards to balance). that is why many MMO's these days are going towards a split skill system, where they can balance PvP and PvE skills separately. ESO needs to do the same, for the benefit of both the PvP and PvE players.

I could substitute PvE every where you wrote PvP with the same truth.
It is immature players and the lack of repercussions hiding behind a screen that cause bad behavior in both PvE and PvP.

So, so, soooooo true. There are some real arse-hats in PvE as well. REAL arse-hats.

Oh tell me about it.

I could share stories up down and sideways about the other side of the spectrum as well as PVP, but PVP's got a particular flavor of toxic if that makes sense.

Yeah, it makes sense. I guess one plus for PvP is that you can (at least try) to clobber the arse-hats. I just have a thick skin from doing CS/TS as a career so it doesn't get to me (PvP or PvE) but I've seen some really nasty PvE folk (other games) in raiding situations. Holy moly.

That's honestly -where- that type of mentality breeds, the competative types. It's allways raids, it's allways geting the fastest, the best clears, and so on and so fourth, and because of the same values, it has alot of the same issues and attracts alot of the same problem people.

But I dont doubt you've seen some stuff. And a little less meme worthy than the 'moar dots' bit. There are some -seriously- unhinged people at that level.

I get wanting challenge (although I no longer do, RL gives me plenty of challenges) but I've seen so many folks lose sight of the fact that they're playing a game and that not everyone is as ruthlessly dedicated as they are. Now I can see if one is really, really dedicated and is surrounded by folk who aren't at that level of dedication that it would be frustrating but the venom, the sheer ugly that can come forth is so disproportionate.

I kind of feel badly for 'em, actually. To have so much riding on a game.

pieratsos

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

As a PvEer who has done some PvP I don't hate it, nor am I scared of it. I just prefer PvE. Rather like when I go to a restaurant and eat meat although I've tasted some seafood. I don't hate seafood, nor am I scared of it, I just prefer meat. Why do some people have to use terms like "hate" or "scared" in relation to what is essentially a personal preference, no more no less?

Because it's the only way they can rationalize it having spent too much time in a competative environment that it's colored their perception of not just that environment, but the world.

You spend enough time in a competative environment and you start to view anyone who does not want to be in that environment as a loser. As too slow. As too weak.

No one is forcing you to play it in a competitive way. Its ur choice to play it competitively, in the same way you choose to play PVE competitively the second you step foot into the hardest content of the game.

People dont view you as a loser because you dont like doing what they do. But when you clearly express hate towards PVP like you do in this thread in every single post you make, PVP players respond accordingly because they simply dont like being a punching bag for all ur problems.

If you shoot at them, they shoot back and vice versa. Its that simple.

WakeYourGhost

PvPers treat PvEers like Trash, so a lot of PvEers hate PvP.
PvEers treat PvPers like Trash, so a lot of PvPers hate PvE.

This game's content, on both sides, tends to break down to a frenzied mess of sudden damage bursts that lead to a few skilled players surviving and 97% of players all dying to what amounts to a One-shot.

PvE is more predictable, and thus "Easy."
PvP is more random, and thus "Hard."

PvE is more "compact", and thus it always has some for of "engaging" feature. You're never more than a sneeze away from a fight or something to do. It's usually the same dull things to do, though - ymmv.
PvP is more "Spread Out", and thus you tend to have stretches of Nothing before a short flurry of activity. Even sieges tend to go quick most of the time. Many players tend to ride out to do something, die suddenly to one of countless "cheap" tricks in PvP, and have to repeat this process.

Both sides have elitists, both sides have toxicity, and both sides have trash players thinking they are Vaermina's Gift to Tamriel.

....Ohh, and - Most PvE/Pers don't actually have an issue with either side. Fun fact, the forums tend to be the same recycled group of self-entitled malcontents complaining about every change and finding the "other side" easy to Blame for all their Woes. These prickly Cactus-Porcupine hybrids slathered in Venom and Bile don't actually represent even 1/10th of the community.
Most people do one, the other, or Both forms of content without having an issue or problem with either side.

That being said, most people who are reasonably reluctant to try PvP just know the reputation of the aggressively hostile attitude a handful of PvPers get when they get competitive, and find themselves assuming all PvPers are like that.
PvP is much more fun if you turn Zone chat off, relax, and maybe go in with Friends or play with people you know aren't prone to meltdowns and petty childish behavior. A few Muck-Stains on Nirn can easily cloud out otherwise fun or exciting content in a coat of perceived Toxic Filth.

Sevn

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

The odd thing is many pure PvErs on here seem to think as you kill each other people are toxic and harsh.

Yet in my experience, and from this forum PvPers are actually helpful to each other and the real toxic / elitist snobbery happens in trials where you are meant to work together.

Many PvE folk fear the 'bag' however like its something terrible.

If by "the bag" you mean the tea-bag emote...fear? Not a bit. It just seems so junior high-ish ala "look! I have dangly bits!11!!1!, phear me". I think the broom one is amusing.

Spot on, it's just that a bit of comedy. But ive seen some.PvE only folks get seriously offended by it, it's jist pixels but i guess it depends how serious a gamer you are

I'm very serious about my gaming. But probably not like some of the PvP folk I've encountered. It's like someone calling me a "casual" as if that's meant to upset me. I'm seriously casual. Passionately casual. When I game, I aim to do my best. My challenge is to improve, learn, find etc. Not clobber someone and do a silly emote on them or be emoted upon. I guess I could see how someone would find "the bag" offensive but to me it's just the testosterone talking.

Lol, if I had a nickle everytime I was "insulted" with "casual" or "carebear" I'd be richer than I already am! I'm like, yes, yes I am! I'm a super casual! I like being told a bedtime story. I enjoy smashing thru the easy overworld even though I can solo dungeons and n.maelstrom is a joke to me.

I enjoy people watching and lending a hand to that player who is having problems with content that I can clear in seconds. I spend hour upon hours designing my toons, dressing them up and getting the right equipment to complete their "look". I enjoy picking flowers just as much as I enjoy pvping.

No shame whatsoever, I guess if your not into winning something anymore in virtual land you shouldn't be playing videogames? Crazy thing is I had a similar mindset 10-15 years ago, just had to be the best in every match, in every game and took gaming and PvP in particular way too seriously.

It wasn't until my 12 year old nephews looked at me one day saying simply, "it's just a game" that I realized, I'm way too old to be acting like this and gaming became fun again. It even made enjoy pvp again and I do it quite often.

OrdoHermetica

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

Pvp in this game only works for the 720s with elite gear and builds. For everyone else its horrible

I regularly kill CP720 toons with my level 33 magsorc that I'm leveling with crap crafted gear. It's a whole lot less gear and a whole lot more knowing how to PvP - both knowing what skills to use when and how and knowing how the flow of battle tends to go so you can avoid getting in over your head without backup. (Gear is, in my opinion, considerably less important in PvP than it is in PvE.)

Linaleah

what I have realized, from personal experience. the most elitist, rigid toxic competitive pve players? tend to ALSO be pvp players. because in the end its about beating down other people and feeling superior, one way or another for them. pve players who are not really into pvp as much? tend to be a lot more relaxed. again, from my experience. I HAVE seen and played with fairly chill pvpers, but.. in terms of general attitude as people. when it came to builds and tactics? they were as rigid if not more rigid then some of the raiding I've done. hit this ability on 1,2,3, stay on crown move there NOW, use these particular sieges and so on and so forth. super organized and all that.

Charliff1966

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Nyghthowler wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I don't hate PvP. I just know my limits and abilities. I suck. No ifs ands or buts about it. As such, it's no fun at all. The only reason then for me to PvP would be to provide content for someone else and, well, sorry, not going to do that.

Unless they want to pay my sub.

This sums it up for me, too. I have M.S.; my reaction times are bad. My fingers don't always hit the buttons I tell them to. I don't play vet or hard mode group ANYTHING so as not to waste others time. Why would I want to waste mine getting repeatedly killed and t-bagged?

Similar issues so, boy, can I relate. Nothing like meaning to poke 3 and hitting 5. Can result in a dirt nap.

Heh, yeah, I don't feel right inflicting myself on others, especially strangers. Once in awhile when I'm having a good day, I might do a PUG but it's getting really rare.

Same here, not MS but using very strong medication so my reaction time can be slow. PvP would spit me out. When i play i like to forget RL as much as possible, PvP would show my limitations.

DoctorESO

This question assumes that "most pve players hate pvp." Has that premise been generally accepted as true?

DieAlteHexe

Sevn wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

The odd thing is many pure PvErs on here seem to think as you kill each other people are toxic and harsh.

Yet in my experience, and from this forum PvPers are actually helpful to each other and the real toxic / elitist snobbery happens in trials where you are meant to work together.

Many PvE folk fear the 'bag' however like its something terrible.

If by "the bag" you mean the tea-bag emote...fear? Not a bit. It just seems so junior high-ish ala "look! I have dangly bits!11!!1!, phear me". I think the broom one is amusing.

Spot on, it's just that a bit of comedy. But ive seen some.PvE only folks get seriously offended by it, it's jist pixels but i guess it depends how serious a gamer you are

I'm very serious about my gaming. But probably not like some of the PvP folk I've encountered. It's like someone calling me a "casual" as if that's meant to upset me. I'm seriously casual. Passionately casual. When I game, I aim to do my best. My challenge is to improve, learn, find etc. Not clobber someone and do a silly emote on them or be emoted upon. I guess I could see how someone would find "the bag" offensive but to me it's just the testosterone talking.

Lol, if I had a nickle everytime I was "insulted" with "casual" or "carebear" I'd be richer than I already am! I'm like, yes, yes I am! I'm a super casual! I like being told a bedtime story. I enjoy smashing thru the easy overworld even though I can solo dungeons and n.maelstrom is a joke to me.

I enjoy people watching and lending a hand to that player who is having problems with content that I can clear in seconds. I spend hour upon hours designing my toons, dressing them up and getting the right equipment to complete their "look". I enjoy picking flowers just as much as I enjoy pvping.

No shame whatsoever, I guess if your not into winning something anymore in virtual land you shouldn't be playing videogames? Crazy thing is I had a similar mindset 10-15 years ago, just had to be the best in every match, in every game and took gaming and PvP in particular way too seriously.

It wasn't until my 12 year old nephews looked at me one day saying simply, "it's just a game" that I realized, I'm way too old to be acting like this and gaming became fun again. It even made enjoy pvp again and I do it quite often.

I would be far more interested in PvP were there to be some sort of strategy, organisation, intent but for about a decade now it's been (not all but most) LEEEEROOOOOOOOY JENKINS style. ZergFest. Blech.

I wish there were more ways to help the cause without actually going out there and slugging; building, gathering, crafting etc. Be glad to do stuff like that (and no, I do not want to repair walls).

Ah well, I'm having fun, frolicking about carebearing my way through Tamriel.

Kel

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

PvPers treat PvEers like Trash, so a lot of PvEers hate PvP.
PvEers treat PvPers like Trash, so a lot of PvPers hate PvE.

This game's content, on both sides, tends to break down to a frenzied mess of sudden damage bursts that lead to a few skilled players surviving and 97% of players all dying to what amounts to a One-shot.

PvE is more predictable, and thus "Easy."
PvP is more random, and thus "Hard."

PvE is more "compact", and thus it always has some for of "engaging" feature. You're never more than a sneeze away from a fight or something to do. It's usually the same dull things to do, though - ymmv.
PvP is more "Spread Out", and thus you tend to have stretches of Nothing before a short flurry of activity. Even sieges tend to go quick most of the time. Many players tend to ride out to do something, die suddenly to one of countless "cheap" tricks in PvP, and have to repeat this process.

Both sides have elitists, both sides have toxicity, and both sides have trash players thinking they are Vaermina's Gift to Tamriel.

....Ohh, and - Most PvE/Pers don't actually have an issue with either side. Fun fact, the forums tend to be the same recycled group of self-entitled malcontents complaining about every change and finding the "other side" easy to Blame for all their Woes. These prickly Cactus-Porcupine hybrids slathered in Venom and Bile don't actually represent even 1/10th of the community.
Most people do one, the other, or Both forms of content without having an issue or problem with either side.

That being said, most people who are reasonably reluctant to try PvP just know the reputation of the aggressively hostile attitude a handful of PvPers get when they get competitive, and find themselves assuming all PvPers are like that.
PvP is much more fun if you turn Zone chat off, relax, and maybe go in with Friends or play with people you know aren't prone to meltdowns and petty childish behavior. A few Muck-Stains on Nirn can easily cloud out otherwise fun or exciting content in a coat of perceived Toxic Filth.

Yes. All this is true. And that's really all I'm trying to say in my posts.
I don't get why it has to be a finger pointing, "either/or" situation.
I enjoy running hard PvE content..the thrill of overcoming mechanics and chasing gear. Getting achievements and helping friends with gear and builds.
I also love how PvP can get hectic when two zergs clash over a keep, or your small group runs into a group on the opposite side running out in the open. The tactics and counters each player can make against eachother.
Both are so good to me.
And I get that players have a preference. Truly.
But let's not pretend one is more toxic than the other. It's not. In my personal experience I've found PvE to be more toxic. I've never been kicked from a PvP group, or asked for a gear check, or had to prove anything before I could join a group.
You get tested in PvP by doing...and I like that. Ymmv

Both sides have thier bad apples, no doubt. I just don't see why it has to be one or the other.

Lake

Judging by the forums, most PvPers hate PvP too.

TequilaFire

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

ErMurazor wrote: »

Pveers are just scared thats why they dont pvp. And it takes alot more skill to pvp.

Negatory. Read the thread. There are some interesting responses that might help you to see that your comment is one reason but not THE reason.

The PvPers' responses in this thread explain it all : toxic mentality.

The whole creation of the thread was to create toxic reponses. Why should there be a thread like this at all?
Because drama.

Sevn

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

The odd thing is many pure PvErs on here seem to think as you kill each other people are toxic and harsh.

Yet in my experience, and from this forum PvPers are actually helpful to each other and the real toxic / elitist snobbery happens in trials where you are meant to work together.

Many PvE folk fear the 'bag' however like its something terrible.

If by "the bag" you mean the tea-bag emote...fear? Not a bit. It just seems so junior high-ish ala "look! I have dangly bits!11!!1!, phear me". I think the broom one is amusing.

Spot on, it's just that a bit of comedy. But ive seen some.PvE only folks get seriously offended by it, it's jist pixels but i guess it depends how serious a gamer you are

I'm very serious about my gaming. But probably not like some of the PvP folk I've encountered. It's like someone calling me a "casual" as if that's meant to upset me. I'm seriously casual. Passionately casual. When I game, I aim to do my best. My challenge is to improve, learn, find etc. Not clobber someone and do a silly emote on them or be emoted upon. I guess I could see how someone would find "the bag" offensive but to me it's just the testosterone talking.

Lol, if I had a nickle everytime I was "insulted" with "casual" or "carebear" I'd be richer than I already am! I'm like, yes, yes I am! I'm a super casual! I like being told a bedtime story. I enjoy smashing thru the easy overworld even though I can solo dungeons and n.maelstrom is a joke to me.

I enjoy people watching and lending a hand to that player who is having problems with content that I can clear in seconds. I spend hour upon hours designing my toons, dressing them up and getting the right equipment to complete their "look". I enjoy picking flowers just as much as I enjoy pvping.

No shame whatsoever, I guess if your not into winning something anymore in virtual land you shouldn't be playing videogames? Crazy thing is I had a similar mindset 10-15 years ago, just had to be the best in every match, in every game and took gaming and PvP in particular way too seriously.

It wasn't until my 12 year old nephews looked at me one day saying simply, "it's just a game" that I realized, I'm way too old to be acting like this and gaming became fun again. It even made enjoy pvp again and I do it quite often.

I would be far more interested in PvP were there to be some sort of strategy, organisation, intent but for about a decade now it's been (not all but most) LEEEEROOOOOOOOY JENKINS style. ZergFest. Blech.

I wish there were more ways to help the cause without actually going out there and slugging; building, gathering, crafting etc. Be glad to do stuff like that (and no, I do not want to repair walls).

Ah well, I'm having fun, frolicking about carebearing my way through Tamriel.

Now see that's where we part ways. I LOVE zerging in cyro. 20 something players rushing onto the battlefield to take on another 20 something group, smashing into each other like a huge royal rumble over and over until one is beaten into submission, love it.

I most definitely enjoy smaller scale engagements as well, but there are better games for that type of action since ZOS can't seem to get BG's right, not yet anyway. I hate playing an objective based game mode and half the team treats it like it's a freaking DM and wonder why we lost.

But but I got so many kills! Congrats, maybe focus on something other than your kdr and we might win next time? PvP does NOT equate to JUST killing the other team. It means player vs player and that entails a slew of different objectives other than outkilling the other team people.

WakeYourGhost

jabrone77 wrote: »

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

PvPers treat PvEers like Trash, so a lot of PvEers hate PvP.
PvEers treat PvPers like Trash, so a lot of PvPers hate PvE.

This game's content, on both sides, tends to break down to a frenzied mess of sudden damage bursts that lead to a few skilled players surviving and 97% of players all dying to what amounts to a One-shot.

PvE is more predictable, and thus "Easy."
PvP is more random, and thus "Hard."

PvE is more "compact", and thus it always has some for of "engaging" feature. You're never more than a sneeze away from a fight or something to do. It's usually the same dull things to do, though - ymmv.
PvP is more "Spread Out", and thus you tend to have stretches of Nothing before a short flurry of activity. Even sieges tend to go quick most of the time. Many players tend to ride out to do something, die suddenly to one of countless "cheap" tricks in PvP, and have to repeat this process.

Both sides have elitists, both sides have toxicity, and both sides have trash players thinking they are Vaermina's Gift to Tamriel.

....Ohh, and - Most PvE/Pers don't actually have an issue with either side. Fun fact, the forums tend to be the same recycled group of self-entitled malcontents complaining about every change and finding the "other side" easy to Blame for all their Woes. These prickly Cactus-Porcupine hybrids slathered in Venom and Bile don't actually represent even 1/10th of the community.
Most people do one, the other, or Both forms of content without having an issue or problem with either side.

That being said, most people who are reasonably reluctant to try PvP just know the reputation of the aggressively hostile attitude a handful of PvPers get when they get competitive, and find themselves assuming all PvPers are like that.
PvP is much more fun if you turn Zone chat off, relax, and maybe go in with Friends or play with people you know aren't prone to meltdowns and petty childish behavior. A few Muck-Stains on Nirn can easily cloud out otherwise fun or exciting content in a coat of perceived Toxic Filth.

Yes. All this is true. And that's really all I'm trying to say in my posts.
I don't get why it has to be a finger pointing, "either/or" situation.
I enjoy running hard PvE content..the thrill of overcoming mechanics and chasing gear. Getting achievements and helping friends with gear and builds.
I also love how PvP can get hectic when two zergs clash over a keep, or your small group runs into a group on the opposite side running out in the open. The tactics and counters each player can make against eachother.
Both are so good to me.
And I get that players have a preference. Truly.
But let's not pretend one is more toxic than the other. It's not. In my personal experience I've found PvE to be more toxic. I've never been kicked from a PvP group, or asked for a gear check, or had to prove anything before I could join a group.
You get tested in PvP by doing...and I like that. Ymmv

Both sides have thier bad apples, no doubt. I just don't see why it has to be one or the other.

If certain players who focused entirely on PvE and liked to do "Power" Marches in towns in game spouting their Racial Priorities to anyone who would listen are anything to go by, I would say that PvE does indeed have at least an equally Toxic community to PvP.
Again, it's still just a handful of people compared to the larger community as a whole.

I personally enjoy both sides - But, I also have a friendly Guild that does both. I don't end up in a lot of a hostile situations because of that.

Taking down a large boss in a Dungeon with fields of stacked AoEs, learning that combat mechanic that saves your ass in that fight - It feels great.. Just about as great as dropping a coordinated Coldfire barrage on a Zerg group rushing your keep and watching them crumble to ash.

Either way - aren't we all just trying to see our Enemies driven before us, and hear the lamentations of their women? Or Men? Or invasive gerbils? I don't judge.

Abysswarrior45

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

Pvp in this game only works for the 720s with elite gear and builds. For everyone else its horrible

Lies. I know a lady who just started the game and she's able to get consistent 1v5s at 200cp killing plenty of max levels. Yes its harder to do at a lower level and long-time players, imo, should have an inherent advantage over newer players. With they way diminishing returns work now though, low levels can be very dangerous and not far behind a 720 in a meta setup. You must be a zergling

mikemacon

Mainly due to elitism amongst PVP players.

Valkyn Skoria has yet to teabag someone or whisper “l2p” to them.

OrdoHermetica

So, as someone who plays end-game PvE and has also recently gotten reasonably good at PvP, I think there are a few things at play.

First, the learning curve on PvP is more like a learning cliff. Learning how to not suck at PvP is a time-consuming, arduous process and is reminiscent of bashing your head against a wall. This is especially true if you don't have experienced PvPers showing you the ropes - my buddy and I were basically the only ones in our guild giving it a try, so we had to learn from painful experience (read: getting murdered over and over and over again). It took us months of being cannon fodder before we got the hang of it, and while we both enjoy it quite a bit now, we really weren't having fun for a while there.

This is exacerbated by PvE and PvP being essentially different games at this point. Setups that work well in PvE are garbage in PvP and vice versa - trying to run my PvP toon through vet content for that Undaunted grind is often agonizing. And yeah, you really DO need to respec your entire gear setup when going into PvP, with only a handful of exceptions (tank gear and magicka DPS gear can often work just fine as-is, if not optimally).

This second point leads into a pretty big third point: PvE-only players are the majority of the player base by far, so they understandably get annoyed when PvP balance passes break PvE builds. Of course, the reverse also happens and PvP builds get borked by balance passes to PvE, though not everyone really thinks of that detail. Also, as much as I do enjoy PvP, I also recognize that PvPers are in the minority, so it's probably best that PvE balance get priority, yes (because the ideal situation of separating the two out will likely never happen).

That all said, I do want to highlight something I REALLY, REALLY like about PvP that I think might appeal to PvE types as well: build flexibility. There is so, so much more variety in viable builds, skill sets and gear included. If you're annoyed by the really quite strict PvE meta, then seriously, consider learning the PvP side of things. Revel in the freedom of actually being able to use sets that look interesting to you but aren't "meta" in PvE. It's a glorious feeling.

DieAlteHexe

Sevn wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

The odd thing is many pure PvErs on here seem to think as you kill each other people are toxic and harsh.

Yet in my experience, and from this forum PvPers are actually helpful to each other and the real toxic / elitist snobbery happens in trials where you are meant to work together.

Many PvE folk fear the 'bag' however like its something terrible.

If by "the bag" you mean the tea-bag emote...fear? Not a bit. It just seems so junior high-ish ala "look! I have dangly bits!11!!1!, phear me". I think the broom one is amusing.

Spot on, it's just that a bit of comedy. But ive seen some.PvE only folks get seriously offended by it, it's jist pixels but i guess it depends how serious a gamer you are

I'm very serious about my gaming. But probably not like some of the PvP folk I've encountered. It's like someone calling me a "casual" as if that's meant to upset me. I'm seriously casual. Passionately casual. When I game, I aim to do my best. My challenge is to improve, learn, find etc. Not clobber someone and do a silly emote on them or be emoted upon. I guess I could see how someone would find "the bag" offensive but to me it's just the testosterone talking.

Lol, if I had a nickle everytime I was "insulted" with "casual" or "carebear" I'd be richer than I already am! I'm like, yes, yes I am! I'm a super casual! I like being told a bedtime story. I enjoy smashing thru the easy overworld even though I can solo dungeons and n.maelstrom is a joke to me.

I enjoy people watching and lending a hand to that player who is having problems with content that I can clear in seconds. I spend hour upon hours designing my toons, dressing them up and getting the right equipment to complete their "look". I enjoy picking flowers just as much as I enjoy pvping.

No shame whatsoever, I guess if your not into winning something anymore in virtual land you shouldn't be playing videogames? Crazy thing is I had a similar mindset 10-15 years ago, just had to be the best in every match, in every game and took gaming and PvP in particular way too seriously.

It wasn't until my 12 year old nephews looked at me one day saying simply, "it's just a game" that I realized, I'm way too old to be acting like this and gaming became fun again. It even made enjoy pvp again and I do it quite often.

I would be far more interested in PvP were there to be some sort of strategy, organisation, intent but for about a decade now it's been (not all but most) LEEEEROOOOOOOOY JENKINS style. ZergFest. Blech.

I wish there were more ways to help the cause without actually going out there and slugging; building, gathering, crafting etc. Be glad to do stuff like that (and no, I do not want to repair walls).

Ah well, I'm having fun, frolicking about carebearing my way through Tamriel.

Now see that's where we part ways. I LOVE zerging in cyro. 20 something players rushing onto the battlefield to take on another 20 something group, smashing into each other like a huge royal rumble over and over until one is beaten into submission, love it.

I most definitely enjoy smaller scale engagements as well, but there are better games for that type of action since ZOS can't seem to get BG's right, not yet anyway. I hate playing an objective based game mode and half the team treats it like it's a freaking DM and wonder why we lost.

But but I got so many kills! Congrats, maybe focus on something other than your kdr and we might win next time? PvP does NOT equate to JUST killing the other team. It means player vs player and that entails a slew of different objectives other than outkilling the other team people.

https://9gag.com/gag/aAPbR7o/this-is-how-i-imagine-the-medieval-wars

^^^^ How I see it.

DieAlteHexe

Charliff1966 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Nyghthowler wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I don't hate PvP. I just know my limits and abilities. I suck. No ifs ands or buts about it. As such, it's no fun at all. The only reason then for me to PvP would be to provide content for someone else and, well, sorry, not going to do that.

Unless they want to pay my sub.

This sums it up for me, too. I have M.S.; my reaction times are bad. My fingers don't always hit the buttons I tell them to. I don't play vet or hard mode group ANYTHING so as not to waste others time. Why would I want to waste mine getting repeatedly killed and t-bagged?

Similar issues so, boy, can I relate. Nothing like meaning to poke 3 and hitting 5. Can result in a dirt nap.

Heh, yeah, I don't feel right inflicting myself on others, especially strangers. Once in awhile when I'm having a good day, I might do a PUG but it's getting really rare.

Same here, not MS but using very strong medication so my reaction time can be slow. PvP would spit me out. When i play i like to forget RL as much as possible, PvP would show my limitations.

Frustrating when brain says: Okay, left index finger, yer up! Hit that 3 key!

Left index finger: Bwa? *thump 5* Close enough

Me: dirt nap

Algraxa

I come to this game to relax, to escape to enjoy the content. PvP is none of those things, so not my cup of tea.

I am glad it exists for those who desire a more conflict driven play. The only issue I have with PvP is that I am forced to grind it to get skill points in that zone and I know PvE gets 'balanced' based on PvP exploits.... ESO needs to separate PvE from PvP for that issue.

Scorpiodisc

MajBludd wrote: »

So, why is pvp so bad for the game?

I have nothing against PvP, however, I hate when developers try to entice you into it by placing skills or gear that is beneficial to PvE behind PvP participation walls.

Loralai_907

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can tell you why I did no PvP until fairly recently.

My first issue was my concern about the community and my lack of knowledge. I was very worried about being seen as really super bad and people being horrid about it. I have issues, I care too much about things like that. So I was held back by my worry that people would be awful. And they were not. I have had only 1 person on my faction be a jerk, and they were immediately called out by people I don't even know for being a jerk. I appreciated that. And only 2 people from other factions felt the need to send me whispers about my being terribad. I just was like, yeah I know thanks, I'm new to this.

Paired with that, I had this idea that everyone there has been there forever and I would be one of very few new people and it would be obvious and again, people would be crap. I figured, my dying all over the place would in some way hold my faction back. That I would be a hindrance. That has proven to not be the case. I have always paid attention to what is being said in zone chat, I picked up a lot of really helpful information in that way. I also watch what other people are doing, and have picked up more helpful information by doing that. I can help defend properly because I pay attention. Sure, I die, but if 80 people from another faction show up and we have 4 bloody defenders, we are all going to die. I know my limitations. If no one else is standing by the door of a keep, but are running around like chickens with their heads cut off on the walls, I'm going inside, I'm not going to die right there by myself for no reason.

I am by no means a great player. But I have improved. I can hold my own far better than I could that first month. I do need to work on my build, but I haven't set my mind to one path or another with her. So that will happen eventually. And, you can absolutely go out there and have a blast with sub par gear. You can go out there and have a blast even if you don't know anyone else out there.

What my experience has shown me is that for one people are not toxic or terrible or mean for the most part. Just go out there, buy some siege and repair kits, and pay attention to chat - go where the fights are, repair walls when needed, support those that do know what they are doing. Learn from them. If they yell to get on the flags, you do that. If they say we are going to go do this, go. If they give directions on what is going on or what they need in a fight, help with that in whatever way you can. I have had so much fun. And I have anxiety and stranger danger issues, so how I am having fun is beyond me. But I love that it is not the same fight over and over. You might be fighting in the same places, but you cannot predict every move. And after so much time running around in PvE, I really like not knowing what to expect.

Anyways, that turned out longer than I thought it would be. But I think people that are like me and scared need to know they don't need to be. Come have fun with us

ShadowMonarch

Scorpiodisc wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

So, why is pvp so bad for the game?

I have nothing against PvP, however, I hate when developers try to entice you into it by placing skills or gear that is beneficial to PvE behind PvP participation walls.

The same way people that only want to pvp have to do dungeons over and over for dozzens of keys and RNG drops to get our gear.

Should just be a way for you to earn your abilitys and things outside cyro and should be a way for pvpers to earn all the gear and sets with AP.

Raraaku

I don't hate PvP, I just figured I would suck, get frustrated due to lack of understanding of common zerg/gank and other group tactics and end up rage quitting.

I'm a casual player, I play the game to relax and unwind after a long day. I don't want to get my backside handed to me six ways to Sunday all the while quite possibly getting taunted by opponents or dismaying others on my side. It's mostly a personal perception thing for me, most PvP threads I read get very heated very quickly.

Plus as a casual player, I'm not a min/max guy, like at all. PvP is very much geared towards that, I just want to play the game, fill a role with a group of friends as we take on a good challenge and get a reward all the while having fun. I'm sure I'll try PvP eventually, but right now I'm just having fun working through all that PvE has to offer on my way too many characters that I'm working on nearly simultaneously.

pdebie64b16_ESO

MajBludd wrote: »

So, why is pvp so bad for the game?

PvP isnt bad at all for this game, but players who are god in PvE can fail miserable in PvP and visa versa.

smacx250

I don't hate it, it just got old for me. After maybe 9 months of mostly PvP, what at first seemed so varied and unpredictable, just seemed like the same thing over and over again. I also never PvP'd before ESO, and at first there was a real thrill when fighting other players (both good and bad). But that kind of wore off, and I didn't find it so special any more. And when there isn't much going on I find it really boring. I don't really derive much pleasure directly from beating other people, so in all, there wasn't much to keep me going back. For now, I just find more to keep me engaged on the PvE side of things.

As far as fear of dying goes - there was a bunch of that when I first started PvP, but you gotta let that go pretty fast. I have stats going back to summer of 2015, and ~70% of all my deaths in ESO since then were by players, even though I've spent much more time doing PvE. If anything, I now feel that PvE deaths "hurt" more than PvP ones - a totally different feeling then when I first started PvP.

Animus-ESO

Everstorm wrote: »

Caitsith wrote: »

Because several pve players think PvP community is responsible for all nerfs that we see often added with each update.

I don't blame the community but after playing MMOs for almost 18 years I've pretty much come to the conclusion that PvE and PvP simply don't mix well in one game. Keeping classes, skills and gear balanced for one side is hard enough, for both sides at the same time is a nightmare. Devs insisting on adding both to a game simply set themselves up for failure and all the backlash from the community that comes with it.

Uhm i dunno about you but pvp wise most clases are fairly balanced and when it comes to builds I think there is only like 5k difference between the worst class and best class. That sounds pretty pinnacle when it comes to balance.