Why do most pve players hate pvp?

DoctorESO

PvP is almost a separate game from PvE. People have different preferences. Some like both games, and some only like one.

EvilAutoTech

Before spending time in Cyrodiil, I was afraid of losing items or gold in PVP. That doesn't happen in this game. You can lose Tel Var but it is easy to PVP without going to the Imperial City.

I know some players don't believe that they can compete with those that have more experience. It means absolutely nothing to die in PVP. If you do it, kills will come. Death comes too, but the more you PVP, the more you will have success.

I think most players who say they don't like PVP have not given it a fair try in this game. It took me until I had three characters with Vigor before I started enjoying it. I have enjoyed solo, small group, medium group and even following a zerg.

Of course some people will never enjoy PVP for their own reasons and that's OK too.

Sevn

"There is no hunting, like the hunting of a man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and like it, never really care for anything else thereafter". -Hemingway

Vaoh

PvP used to be a ton of fun for me. I just don’t find it appealing anymore.

The balancing these days, tons of bugs/bandaid fixes (gap closers, etc) and lag in prime time just doesn’t interest me. The player count is so low too - you could fit every PvPer online during prime time into a single old style-population campaign and not even fill it. I see the same players constantly. There are so few fights at any given time to engage in that don’t involve an enormous zerg.

Many styles of *fun* play have been catastrophically nerfed too. Templars have so many issues due to bugs/nerfs overtime. Sorcs are extremely boring and have had some truly terrible class changes that even have most #NerfSorc complainers questioning why. Also rip DW Sorc except for some cheesy dueling build that relies on Meteor for their burst. Warden was released a flawed class basically carried by Shimmering Shield. Just wait until ZOS sets their sights on them again.

Meanwhile basically everyone is a NB now. Duels are determined by who does or doesn’t miss their Incap. They can also deal as much burst damage nowadays than they used when Viper was a thing. NB remains the only class that has been buffed rather than harshly nerfed over the passed year.

And what will ZOS do? Well instead of bringing up other classes and returning their unique factors/strength to them, ZOS will probably just nerf NB. Does not improve the overall balance.

In the end I just get sad whenever I see what PvP has become. If I really wanted I could go join a group of very skilled PvPers but the issue isn’t about my own performance. The PvP experience imo is terrible compared to how it once was.

WuffyCerulei

It may be because players don't have mechanics. You can't predict what is going to happen. However, I highly enjoy pvp more at times than pve because it's more relaxing. There's no pressure to be the best of the best. If more pvers did pvp, they probs wouldn't feel so burnt out by the same trials.

Tandor

As a PvEer who has done some PvP I don't hate it, nor am I scared of it. I just prefer PvE. Rather like when I go to a restaurant and eat meat although I've tasted some seafood. I don't hate seafood, nor am I scared of it, I just prefer meat. Why do some people have to use terms like "hate" or "scared" in relation to what is essentially a personal preference, no more no less?

Doctordarkspawn

Samadhi wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

...
People who play PVE play to relax. Having some guy screaming at us isn't a relaxing environment.

Personally find solo PvP far more relaxing than group PvE, precisely on this basis

It helps that my status gets set to Offline in Cyrodiil, so players from enemy teams can't whine or berate me for killing them

It's honestly a good solution, one I'd try if the competative nature of PVP and the stress it brings does just hammer on my emotional problems to all hell.

Doctordarkspawn

Tandor wrote: »

As a PvEer who has done some PvP I don't hate it, nor am I scared of it. I just prefer PvE. Rather like when I go to a restaurant and eat meat although I've tasted some seafood. I don't hate seafood, nor am I scared of it, I just prefer meat. Why do some people have to use terms like "hate" or "scared" in relation to what is essentially a personal preference, no more no less?

Because it's the only way they can rationalize it having spent too much time in a competative environment that it's colored their perception of not just that environment, but the world.

You spend enough time in a competative environment and you start to view anyone who does not want to be in that environment as a loser. As too slow. As too weak.

Samadhi

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

...
People who play PVE play to relax. Having some guy screaming at us isn't a relaxing environment.

Personally find solo PvP far more relaxing than group PvE, precisely on this basis

It helps that my status gets set to Offline in Cyrodiil, so players from enemy teams can't whine or berate me for killing them

It's honestly a good solution, one I'd try if the competative nature of PVP and the stress it brings does not just hammer on my emotional problems to all hell.

It works for me, but it is not for everyone
do not personally find PvP competitive in nature tho
but that also starts to move toward the more abstract side of the issue
tying to my broader views on death and resurrection as a mechanic in video games

Jhalin

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Not in MMOs, not in MOBAs, not in FPS's.

And MOBAs are the WORST. I play Smite from time to time, which I enjoy as a concept, but I can only tolerate playing for a week or two before I leave the game for months at a time. The players get so toxic that if you die even ONCE, WW2 was a tea party in comparison.

Every MOBA I've played has demonstrable progression, which makes them infinitely better than ESO's PvP from the get go. Once you destroy an enemy structure in an MOBA, it's gone for good.

I really really wish Cyro was like that. Over the course of a campaign, structures would stay down. Obviously longer campaigns would have much stronger structures, things you chip away at via hit-and-run strikes that take advantage of enemies not defending the area. Resources can have actual functions that boost seigeing in their surrounding area. Full repairs wouldn't be click and forget, it would require actual materials, gathered from claimed resources.

There are ways to make Cyrodiil engaging, but right now it's just three identical idiot alliances running themselves in circles over the same few keeps.

NyassaV

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I don't hate PvP. I just know my limits and abilities. I suck. No ifs ands or buts about it. As such, it's no fun at all. The only reason then for me to PvP would be to provide content for someone else and, well, sorry, not going to do that.

Unless they want to pay my sub.

I used to think the same thing for like a year... Then I learned

temjiu

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. were not worthy because we don't play the hard stuff.
4. Because PvP players disregard PvE players wants and needs when it comes to balance. THEY are more important, thus the impact of changes on PvE are irrelevant. The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of PvP regularly.
6. Because PvP in a PvE game kills the PvE game. And Vice versa if you want to know the truth.

I used to PvP allot ages ago. did the whole gamut in most MMO's I played. Got burnt out on it. Too much toxicity and immature behaviors. I'm watching my son go through the same thing as he is very much into competitive games on his xbox, and I hear all about the horrid behaviors people exemplify in PvP. It's not gotten any better...it's only getting worse.

And add to that, the ego's and disdain that PvP players have for those who simply don't want to deal with it, and the nerf after nerf for classes that really do Impact PvE, but PvP players don't care. They just hop off to their next whine train about X class with Y ability.

I do my best to have patience and understanding with PvP players. It's very sad that many of them don't do the same for PvE. I respect their desire to have a playable PvP element, and there are those PvP players that understand the PvE needs... but they are a rare bird. I don't hate PvP, I just don't have the time and energy for it anymore. with a career and a house and a family to take care of, real life has enough challenges, I play these games to relax and unwind. Don't need some 12 yr old teabagging me an hour after I just put my son on restriction because he was behaving just as poorly.

And the day they take PvP out of my PvE game is the day they will be able to decently balance PvE classes. To be fair, PvE impacts PvP in similar ways (as regards to balance). that is why many MMO's these days are going towards a split skill system, where they can balance PvP and PvE skills separately. ESO needs to do the same, for the benefit of both the PvP and PvE players.

Synthwavius

Because pvp usually makes games toxic. More or less. I used to pvp for past 7 years and ESO is my retreat where I can rest without raging at lag, lagers, p2w, balance issues, cheaters etc.

DieAlteHexe

NyassaV wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I don't hate PvP. I just know my limits and abilities. I suck. No ifs ands or buts about it. As such, it's no fun at all. The only reason then for me to PvP would be to provide content for someone else and, well, sorry, not going to do that.

Unless they want to pay my sub.

I used to think the same thing for like a year... Then I learned

I learned in UO. I learned in EQ. I learned in DAoC. I learned in WoW. But the most important thing I learned?

PvP just doesn't interest me so I've not bothered to learn anymore. The result isn't worth the effort for me.

Doctordarkspawn

@temjiu laid it out beautifully and in full.

Not just the reasoning, but the suggestion. ESO needs to seperate the two and get it over with, otherwise PVP will continue to consume this game like a cancer.

JJBoomer

Quite simply? Because I don't like PVP. I don't see it the point of it, and I don't need to. IMO, PVP is for people who need to measure their e-peens with each other. Who need to exert power over other people and well, for bragging rights. And that's it.

I'm not here for that. Don't care about it. But hey, if that's what people need in order to have fun? Okay.

I've played this game for almost 3 years, and have only been in PVP twice. And I could not have been more bored, even when engaged in combat.

I just have no use for it and that's why. And I do agree that the PVE and PVP in this game need to be separated.

Beardimus

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

The odd thing is many pure PvErs on here seem to think as you kill each other people are toxic and harsh.

Yet in my experience, and from this forum PvPers are actually helpful to each other and the real toxic / elitist snobbery happens in trials where you are meant to work together.

Many PvE folk fear the 'bag' however like its something terrible.

If by "the bag" you mean the tea-bag emote...fear? Not a bit. It just seems so junior high-ish ala "look! I have dangly bits!11!!1!, phear me". I think the broom one is amusing.

Spot on, it's just that a bit of comedy. But ive seen some.PvE only folks get seriously offended by it, it's jist pixels but i guess it depends how serious a gamer you are

VirtualElizabeth

JJBoomer wrote: »

Quite simply? Because I don't like PVP. I don't see it the point of it, and I don't need to. IMO, PVP is for people who need to measure their e-peens with each other. Who need to exert power over other people and well, for bragging rights. And that's it.

I find it to be just the opposite of what Temju is saying - PvE is full of elitist players who demand a certain build or you won't be considered to join up in their events. I have also heard of more players experiencing drama in pve guilds than I have ever heard in PVP.

Why do most people not like PvP? I think its more ego driven - they have to win or the experience is pointless. Plus talk about big babies when they get killed! I find the pvp community much friendlier and inclusive than the hard core PvE'rs

DieAlteHexe

Beardimus wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

The odd thing is many pure PvErs on here seem to think as you kill each other people are toxic and harsh.

Yet in my experience, and from this forum PvPers are actually helpful to each other and the real toxic / elitist snobbery happens in trials where you are meant to work together.

Many PvE folk fear the 'bag' however like its something terrible.

If by "the bag" you mean the tea-bag emote...fear? Not a bit. It just seems so junior high-ish ala "look! I have dangly bits!11!!1!, phear me". I think the broom one is amusing.

Spot on, it's just that a bit of comedy. But ive seen some.PvE only folks get seriously offended by it, it's jist pixels but i guess it depends how serious a gamer you are

I'm very serious about my gaming. But probably not like some of the PvP folk I've encountered. It's like someone calling me a "casual" as if that's meant to upset me. I'm seriously casual. Passionately casual. When I game, I aim to do my best. My challenge is to improve, learn, find etc. Not clobber someone and do a silly emote on them or be emoted upon. I guess I could see how someone would find "the bag" offensive but to me it's just the testosterone talking.

Nyghthowler

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I don't hate PvP. I just know my limits and abilities. I suck. No ifs ands or buts about it. As such, it's no fun at all. The only reason then for me to PvP would be to provide content for someone else and, well, sorry, not going to do that.

Unless they want to pay my sub.

This sums it up for me, too. I have M.S.; my reaction times are bad. My fingers don't always hit the buttons I tell them to. I don't play vet or hard mode group ANYTHING so as not to waste others time. Why would I want to waste mine getting repeatedly killed and t-bagged?

TequilaFire

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Zach2322 wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Because PvE is about having fun and playing the way you want, while PvP is all about "the meta" and what's good and what's bad and fun is determined by if you're "doing it right" or not.

That seems backwards.... but that's just my opinion

Really? I have an ice mage warden that does just fine in PvE, but if I ever took her into PvP, I would be laughed right out of Cyrodiil.

What happens when yo ask to sign up for a trial with that build?
Wardens Ice skills in PvP are pretty effective.

Really?

Now, I'm talking magic based, ice staff, light armor, ignoring the animal and plant skills warden. Still feel the same way?

Yeah they are OP in PvP using the ice skills, there is an infamous emperor on PS4 who uses variations of that build.
Also we don't judge peoples builds as harshly in PvP I know you might find that hard to believe.

Doctordarkspawn

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

JJBoomer wrote: »

Quite simply? Because I don't like PVP. I don't see it the point of it, and I don't need to. IMO, PVP is for people who need to measure their e-peens with each other. Who need to exert power over other people and well, for bragging rights. And that's it.

I find it to be just the opposite of what Temju is saying - PvE is full of elitist players who demand a certain build or you won't be considered to join up in their events. I have also heard of more players experiencing drama in pve guilds than I have ever heard in PVP.

Why do most people not like PvP? I think its more ego driven - they have to win or the experience is pointless. Plus talk about big babies when they get killed! I find the pvp community much friendlier and inclusive than the hard core PvE'rs

Well. Far be it of me to say that PVE does not have it's problems, it definately does and elitism is very prevelent, but allow me to try to explain why?

When the constraints for what is useable in PVE at a high level get tighter, and content is built around those tightened constraints, the tollerence for experimental or sub-par builds go down. The more constrained, the worse it gets. Now factor in the effect PVP has on those contraints, IE, certain skills get nerfed for PVP so that the tools we have get reduced and you have a ultra-concervative atmosphere not helped by things.

It's a situation that's been geting worse over the past year, and while the latest supposed tank nerf turned out to be a little less (I think the PTS formula had some screwy math with it) it's still had a effect on what people will accept.

TequilaFire

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I play both and I enjoy both. What I hate is when PVP balance decisions negatively PVE.

It's annoying when obvious PVP balance changes reduce effectiveness of skills in PVE.

But PvP players don't do that, the devs do, take it up with them.

DieAlteHexe

Nyghthowler wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I don't hate PvP. I just know my limits and abilities. I suck. No ifs ands or buts about it. As such, it's no fun at all. The only reason then for me to PvP would be to provide content for someone else and, well, sorry, not going to do that.

Unless they want to pay my sub.

This sums it up for me, too. I have M.S.; my reaction times are bad. My fingers don't always hit the buttons I tell them to. I don't play vet or hard mode group ANYTHING so as not to waste others time. Why would I want to waste mine getting repeatedly killed and t-bagged?

Similar issues so, boy, can I relate. Nothing like meaning to poke 3 and hitting 5. Can result in a dirt nap.

Heh, yeah, I don't feel right inflicting myself on others, especially strangers. Once in awhile when I'm having a good day, I might do a PUG but it's getting really rare.

Doctordarkspawn

TequilaFire wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I play both and I enjoy both. What I hate is when PVP balance decisions negatively PVE.

It's annoying when obvious PVP balance changes reduce effectiveness of skills in PVE.

But PvP players don't do that, the devs do, take it up with them.

Oh come on, PVP players scream to the high heavens every time they have a problem and shout about how PVE issues are little more than worthless, you dont get to play that card.

Even if you dont personally lobby for it, you cant deny this isn't standard fair. Come on, dont insult our collective intelligence.

Vanya

A human being with a decade+ of MMO PVP experience. Thanks kindly for reading in advance.

Hate is a bit potent word. Hate if often used often , Think for a moment, why would you hate something you aren't even forced to do? Ultimately tis indeed easily avoidable. Nobody is disrupting your game-play. You have decided to venture within Cyrodil and prepare to face the consequences

A summary.

~ The most important factor is to understand the mentality of PVE&PVP player-base.It's the competitive spirit. Why do you slay other players , ask yourself? To dominate ,conquer ,progress. It feels great. You wish to prove yourself and therefore you shall accept thy challenge.

Why mentality? It's a different tale to test your skills against player rather than AI and it is not for faint hearted. Often clashes and debates will occur. You will die a lot, if you cannot stand it, better quit before you smash your monitor

Do not mistake me, When I say faint hearted I do not mean you do not fight with keyboard warriors , but rather accepting the defeat or nature of PVP and without tendency to give up with ease.

Now other souls shall whisper: But I can do in in PVE as well!,Which is partially true, but it's another own realm. It cannot be compared and it never shall be so.

PVE players want to enjoy/immerse and explore/quest in relative peace. I am glad The Elder Scrolls Online isn't open World PVP, but rather one behemoth of the zone and if one desires can go and smash with others for whole eternity.

Abusive,toxic,childish behaviour which is often irritating not only for one person but entire zone, You suck, You are noob. I am the best, I'll.. and so on.. Lack of constructive criticism.

When PVP&PVE intertwine, a one eternal crusade.

Terrible unbalance and "unfair" game-play 10vs1, 20vs2 Zergs,camping.

Lag,Bugs,glitches,Lack of new content, Inability to admit someone is indeed better than you and more determinted and rage quit shall follow and common excuses,fights.....

Drem.. I'm done. Feel free to add something else.

Talos guide you-

Nyghthowler

TequilaFire wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I play both and I enjoy both. What I hate is when PVP balance decisions negatively PVE.

It's annoying when obvious PVP balance changes reduce effectiveness of skills in PVE.

But PvP players don't do that, the devs do, take it up with them.

Wrong. The PvPers itch, whine, and cry on the forums till the devs nerf it.
When PvEers ask to have skills split between the two play styles PvPers cry they don't want to have to learn how to do things two different ways (despite some abilities already doing this) even though the majority of vocal PvPers state they don't PvE at all.

TequilaFire

temjiu wrote: »

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. were not worthy because we don't play the hard stuff.
4. Because PvP players disregard PvE players wants and needs when it comes to balance. THEY are more important, thus the impact of changes on PvE are irrelevant. The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of PvP regularly.
6. Because PvP in a PvE game kills the PvE game. And Vice versa if you want to know the truth.

I used to PvP allot ages ago. did the whole gamut in most MMO's I played. Got burnt out on it. Too much toxicity and immature behaviors. I'm watching my son go through the same thing as he is very much into competitive games on his xbox, and I hear all about the horrid behaviors people exemplify in PvP. It's not gotten any better...it's only getting worse.

And add to that, the ego's and disdain that PvP players have for those who simply don't want to deal with it, and the nerf after nerf for classes that really do Impact PvE, but PvP players don't care. They just hop off to their next whine train about X class with Y ability.

I do my best to have patience and understanding with PvP players. It's very sad that many of them don't do the same for PvE. I respect their desire to have a playable PvP element, and there are those PvP players that understand the PvE needs... but they are a rare bird. I don't hate PvP, I just don't have the time and energy for it anymore. with a career and a house and a family to take care of, real life has enough challenges, I play these games to relax and unwind. Don't need some 12 yr old teabagging me an hour after I just put my son on restriction because he was behaving just as poorly.

And the day they take PvP out of my PvE game is the day they will be able to decently balance PvE classes. To be fair, PvE impacts PvP in similar ways (as regards to balance). that is why many MMO's these days are going towards a split skill system, where they can balance PvP and PvE skills separately. ESO needs to do the same, for the benefit of both the PvP and PvE players.

I could substitute PvE every where you wrote PvP with the same truth.
It is immature players and the lack of repercussions hiding behind a screen that cause bad behavior in both PvE and PvP.

DieAlteHexe

TequilaFire wrote: »

temjiu wrote: »

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. were not worthy because we don't play the hard stuff.
4. Because PvP players disregard PvE players wants and needs when it comes to balance. THEY are more important, thus the impact of changes on PvE are irrelevant. The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of PvP regularly.
6. Because PvP in a PvE game kills the PvE game. And Vice versa if you want to know the truth.

I used to PvP allot ages ago. did the whole gamut in most MMO's I played. Got burnt out on it. Too much toxicity and immature behaviors. I'm watching my son go through the same thing as he is very much into competitive games on his xbox, and I hear all about the horrid behaviors people exemplify in PvP. It's not gotten any better...it's only getting worse.

And add to that, the ego's and disdain that PvP players have for those who simply don't want to deal with it, and the nerf after nerf for classes that really do Impact PvE, but PvP players don't care. They just hop off to their next whine train about X class with Y ability.

I do my best to have patience and understanding with PvP players. It's very sad that many of them don't do the same for PvE. I respect their desire to have a playable PvP element, and there are those PvP players that understand the PvE needs... but they are a rare bird. I don't hate PvP, I just don't have the time and energy for it anymore. with a career and a house and a family to take care of, real life has enough challenges, I play these games to relax and unwind. Don't need some 12 yr old teabagging me an hour after I just put my son on restriction because he was behaving just as poorly.

And the day they take PvP out of my PvE game is the day they will be able to decently balance PvE classes. To be fair, PvE impacts PvP in similar ways (as regards to balance). that is why many MMO's these days are going towards a split skill system, where they can balance PvP and PvE skills separately. ESO needs to do the same, for the benefit of both the PvP and PvE players.

I could substitute PvE every where you wrote PvP with the same truth.
It is immature players and the lack of repercussions hiding behind a screen that cause bad behavior in both PvE and PvP.

So, so, soooooo true. There are some real arse-hats in PvE as well. REAL arse-hats.

Doctordarkspawn

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

temjiu wrote: »

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. were not worthy because we don't play the hard stuff.
4. Because PvP players disregard PvE players wants and needs when it comes to balance. THEY are more important, thus the impact of changes on PvE are irrelevant. The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of PvP regularly.
6. Because PvP in a PvE game kills the PvE game. And Vice versa if you want to know the truth.

I used to PvP allot ages ago. did the whole gamut in most MMO's I played. Got burnt out on it. Too much toxicity and immature behaviors. I'm watching my son go through the same thing as he is very much into competitive games on his xbox, and I hear all about the horrid behaviors people exemplify in PvP. It's not gotten any better...it's only getting worse.

And add to that, the ego's and disdain that PvP players have for those who simply don't want to deal with it, and the nerf after nerf for classes that really do Impact PvE, but PvP players don't care. They just hop off to their next whine train about X class with Y ability.

I do my best to have patience and understanding with PvP players. It's very sad that many of them don't do the same for PvE. I respect their desire to have a playable PvP element, and there are those PvP players that understand the PvE needs... but they are a rare bird. I don't hate PvP, I just don't have the time and energy for it anymore. with a career and a house and a family to take care of, real life has enough challenges, I play these games to relax and unwind. Don't need some 12 yr old teabagging me an hour after I just put my son on restriction because he was behaving just as poorly.

And the day they take PvP out of my PvE game is the day they will be able to decently balance PvE classes. To be fair, PvE impacts PvP in similar ways (as regards to balance). that is why many MMO's these days are going towards a split skill system, where they can balance PvP and PvE skills separately. ESO needs to do the same, for the benefit of both the PvP and PvE players.

I could substitute PvE every where you wrote PvP with the same truth.
It is immature players and the lack of repercussions hiding behind a screen that cause bad behavior in both PvE and PvP.

So, so, soooooo true. There are some real arse-hats in PvE as well. REAL arse-hats.

Oh tell me about it.

I could share stories up down and sideways about the other side of the spectrum as well as PVP, but PVP's got a particular flavor of toxic if that makes sense.