Why do most pve players hate pvp?

DieAlteHexe

ErMurazor wrote: »

Pveers are just scared thats why they dont pvp. And it takes alot more skill to pvp.

Negatory. Read the thread. There are some interesting responses that might help you to see that your comment is one reason but not THE reason.

Beardimus

The odd thing is many pure PvErs on here seem to think as you kill each other people are toxic and harsh.

Yet in my experience, and from this forum PvPers are actually helpful to each other and the real toxic / elitist snobbery happens in trials where you are meant to work together.

Many PvE folk fear the 'bag' however like its something terrible.

DieAlteHexe

Beardimus wrote: »

The odd thing is many pure PvErs on here seem to think as you kill each other people are toxic and harsh.

Yet in my experience, and from this forum PvPers are actually helpful to each other and the real toxic / elitist snobbery happens in trials where you are meant to work together.

Many PvE folk fear the 'bag' however like its something terrible.

If by "the bag" you mean the tea-bag emote...fear? Not a bit. It just seems so junior high-ish ala "look! I have dangly bits!11!!1!, phear me". I think the broom one is amusing.

ADarklore

I'd say because there is ultimately no purpose or 'ending'... you take a keep, you lose a keep, you take a keep, you lose a keep. Back and forth, back and forth. Then, you have some PvP players who are rude and obnoxious... at least PvE enemies don't do rude things to your dead corpse!! I like a sense of progression when I play, and there really is none in PvP.

TequilaFire

The real question is since PvP is elective, why are PvE players so bound and determined to destroy or remove PvP.
Don't give me the PvP changes ruin PvE argument because the devs do things the way they do, that is not directly PvP's fault.
Take that up with the devs. The sustain changes hurt just as bad in PvP for example and as to proc sets all we were asking was to make proc sets that do the fighting for a player less effective in PvP against players.

DieAlteHexe

TequilaFire wrote: »

The real question is since PvP is elective, why are PvE players so bound and determined to destroy or remove PvP.
Don't give me the PvP changes ruin PvE argument because the devs do things the way they do, that is not directly PvP's fault.
Take that up with the devs. The sustain changes hurt just as bad in PvP for example and as to proc sets all we were asking was to make proc sets that do the fighting for a player less effective in PvP against players.

Realistically, how many are trying to destroy PvP? Most PvEers that I've come across over the years are either indifferent (ala, hey, whatever floats your boat) or not best pleased because of potential balancing issues (keyword, potential). I have seen some around here (forums but not in game) who would be happy, apparently, if PvP went away but they can easily be ignored as selfish.

So, I challenge the blunt "why are PvE players..." because that's making a HUGE assumption about an entire group.

Valkysas154

Well i do pvp some times when i am really really board but i heal so its not to bad
but i would never go there as a dps/tank i would not want to grind a new set of gear just for pvp i would not want to have to change my skills/morphs and cp every time i wanted to go from pve to pvp so pvp = when i am board and might as well save up some ap for house items or something in the future

Then there is a new player prospective they got really slow mounts that takes them 60-89% longer to get places they have no ideal where to go on the map they will get lost some where then try and port -oops cant- then spend a few hrs pissed trying to get out of pvp

Basically pvp don't help it self much needs some qol

Vulsahdaal

Maybe its because Im not experienced enough in PVP, or maybe as a PVEer Im just biased, but I dont get those who say PVP is more difficult than PVE?

Is it harder in PVP to kill an enemy? Well, yes, probably in many cases. Certainly easier to kill a group of 4 legged lions in Volenfell than a group of DC in NW Cyrodiil.
But as to general gameplay, I dont see it?

My short time (about 2 weeks total) in PVP, it seems like we just attack, siege, break down wall/door, kill all things inside, stand next to flag, repair, then move on and repeat.

Sometimes we are defeated, so we either repeat, or move on to a different target and start at step one again. Seems simple compared to PVE?

I mean, for all you PVPers, imagine if it were like PVE?
Youre defending your keep, the enemy has just broken through the wall. You set your position, equip, start defending when suddenly your group leader yells, 'AD now moving to the west and EP now moving to the eastI Quick, everyone whos outside the keep move inside, and get upstairs asap! But dont forget to run 3 circles counter-clockwise around the front flag on your way up. Everyone whos upstairs, run outside now, but dont jump, because you need to run 3 circles clockwise around the back flag before you go out the door! Try not to be killed as you do this and hurry! You have less than 60 seconds to do this or we wipe!'

Hmmm... maybe might add some interesting aspects to PVP, but as things are now, I just dont see it..

Tholian1

The travel time to get to Cyrodiil (long loading screen) and then all the travel time on mount every time you die. Otherwise, it can be a fun distraction until vigor and caltrops are unlocked. After that, what’s the point?

Vulsahdaal

Biro123 wrote: »

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

As a PVEer, I dont hate PVP, but I am disgusted with it.
The thing is, until very recently, I didnt feel one way or the other about PVP. Whatever happens in Cyrodiil, can stay in Cyrodiil as far as I was concerned.
But a couple weeks ago, I decided my new character needed vigor and caltrops. So he unwillingly trudged his way into Cyrodiil, hoping to get these things as quick as possible and get out.
But as the days went by,surprisingly, it turned out to be rather enjoyable. Met some good people there, and had some really fun and memorable moments.
I remained there even after the vigor/caltrop goal was met. Even thought about getting some PVP gear and becoming more serious with it.
But, as all good things must come to an end, I was removed from the campaign when my character outleveled it
After a couple of days of my character sulking, missing his battle buddies and the action, decided to join a different campaign and maybe create some new memories.
Well, he did, but not good ones. It wasnt that the enemy was tougher, well I did die a little bit more often, but that was okay. My character is still new, needing to learn much and was still geared for PVE.
We were at an outpost we had, when it was noted that AD was coming our way. We took up defense positions, but soon into the fight we also noticed they werent alone. They had grouped together with EP to double team us. Frustrating, but it only made my character more determined to stay and kill any AD or EP he found.
What happened an hour later though, is what caused me to walk away from Cyrodiil. Attacking an AD keep where they had our scroll, and more groups of our own come in to join the fight. I remember vaguely thinking during the battle as we were winning, 'so where are your EP buddies now?' lol
I really did expect them to come hit us from the rear at any moment, but they never showed. We took the keep, and one of our other groups grabbed the scroll.
Those of you who are experienced in PVP probably know whats coming next, but some of us noobs didnt. We were doing repairs and happy in our victory, when someone said 'hey theyre going the wrong way. where they taking the scroll?'
We started to go after them, but there was nothing we could do but just helplessly watch as they went into EP territory and handed the scroll over.
It was at that point, became totally disgusted with PVP. Left that night, and havent gone back. At least in dungeons, trials etc we know who is on our side and who isnt.
I'll tell you, never even once in PVE, have I seen a few members of our group cut a side deal with Rakkhat to go into the next area and hang out/party with the shadows instead of killing them, so the rest of us could be defeated. But if it did, it would turn me off of these things as well :P
So again, I dont hate PVP, but I am disgusted with it. My character will always have great memories of Kyne, but afterwards, he would just as soon forget.

This is why we (the pvpers) keep asking for an overhaul of cyrodiill, for changes to block alliance switching, layout changes, scoring changes etc...

It is basically stale. Many of the old hands who still love PvP at bored with the campaign and. Only play for kills, or to have a laugh with their friends, no matter which faction. Basically there are a lot of players who have given up playing for their faction. This is for a number of reasons... Could be because a nightcapping faction always wins no matter what you do, so you stop trying... Could be because you're simply bored with running around the same emp-loop day after day.
Yes, people say that there are balance and gear changes every patch which are 'PvP content' an yes, from a micro perspective, that can change the mechanics of a fight, but the fact is that nothing changes at the macro level... Sieges are still done in the same way. Keep X still leads to keep Y. Some keeps are still closer than others causing people to still push the same few keeps day after day... Scoring still lets a handful of off-peak players determine who wins. None of this has changed in years.. So people are bored, and bored people look or other ways to have fun.

A common one is for an organised group to take an enemy scroll into a chokepoint and see how many enemies they can farm... That is probably what you saw.

Well, what I saw was a group on our side took our scroll (not an enemy one) right to the enemy. To me, thats even worse than the situation you describe

But yes, I see what youre saying about same thing, day after day. I even wrote about it in my other post. At least in PVE, there is some variety for us. In Cyrodiil, it really does seem like war never changes..

wenchmore420b14_ESO

When I started ESO, I was a MMO n00b. Totaly! Lol.. I played WoW for about a year. Hated it. And the toxic PvP players there made me never want to PvP.
So with ESO, being a TES fan since forever, I wanted to try everything, so off to Wabbajack I go!! Lmao.
I would try and sneak with my pet out,(B4 they changed it), I would just run out in open when I shouldn't,etc. SO, I had a group of folks that after laughing at me, used me as "Bait" for a while. And I was stoked that these vet10 players were hanging out with me!! They ended up feeling sorry for me and that became my first Social Guild I joined! But I sucked at PvP and didn't really understand the scoring and fine details of it, but would still try it sometimes.

Fast forward to Imperial City DLC......During the Beta of IC, the first thing I knew was I would HAVE to get Caltrops for the Sewers of IC.
So off to Cyrodiil to grind out my Caltrops. (FYI: That was before they changed Caltops and Vigor to be easy). Well, I still sucked at it, but not as bad so I started to LFG in chat.
Long story short, I met a GREAT PvP guild who took me in and "Taught" me the fine in & outs of PvP, strategies, working in coordination with other groups, why we take this keep over that one, etc..
I am still mostly a PvE'er, but I really enjoy PvP now, try and run it twice a week when I can, and can run around Vivec solo if I choose.

TLDR; PvE & PvP are what you make it. There are good & bad players/people in both. I agree that one doesn't hate the other as the majority of players I think do both, just a preference to one or the other.
Just as a good group is needed for trials, I say a good guild is the way to enjoy PvP.
Just my 2 drakes....

KiraTsukasa

Because PvE is about having fun and playing the way you want, while PvP is all about "the meta" and what's good and what's bad and fun is determined by if you're "doing it right" or not.

Saphayla

Two things make me not bother with PvP:

1. Steep learning curve
I spent a lot of time in this game playing as a Magicka Sorcerer. I am familiar with the abilities and morphs, know how I would approach tanking, healing and damage dealing. If I decide to try a new class, I have a lot of time to try out different abilities, compare playstyles and decide what works for me and what doesn't.
But in PvP, knowing a single class isn't enough. It's not good enough to know how you should play, you also need to know how others can play. I spent about 20 hours in Cyrodill and I don't recognize over half of all the abilities I've seen people use.
There's so much to learn just to know what the [snip] is going on in PvP, that I'd only do it if pay-off was worth it (more on it in point 2). Worst of all, there's no way for me to get direct experience. I have to either read about PvP or listen to other players talk about PvP, but I can't get actual experience in PvP without serving as a punching bag for many, many hours, which isn't fun and discourages me from trying (No, it's not dying to others that bothers me, it's because most fights end in a couple seconds so I have no time to learn). Not to mention respawns. You can gallop for 10 minutes across Cyrodill, only to be assaulted by someone, die in three hits and have to go all the way back to your faction's starting position.

2. It just doesn't interest me
I don't care about PvP. It just doesn't interest me. I couldn't care less about things happening in PvP, if not for the fact that some abilities from the Alliance War skill lines are extremely important in PvE, like Purge or Caltrops. If I didn't have to play PvP to have the abilities needed for PvE, I would likely never even go to Cyrodil. But I do have to do that, and the combination of the steep learning curve, feeling of helplessness when encountering other players, lag and being forced to do it all make me dislike it. Why should I spend hours doing something I dislike, only to become okay-ish at something that I don't care about?

[Edited to remove profanity]

Zach2322

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Because PvE is about having fun and playing the way you want, while PvP is all about "the meta" and what's good and what's bad and fun is determined by if you're "doing it right" or not.

That seems backwards.... but that's just my opinion

Orticia

PvP is not bad for the game. It is bad for me though as I am terrible at it.
So I spend most of the time dead/running back, trying to atleast get my pve goals in a pvp area.

PvP wise I am getting nowhere and feeling just like being target practice, ego-stroking my enemies and free AP. For battlegrounds... i am scared to even try as i fear my pvp-awefullness will just annoy and anger my fellow pvp-group fellows as the group is just 4 people big. I would not dare pug it.
In short from my end of it there is little fun about it all. And i know the get-good-comments. But honestly I can do without the long tedious slog before I get good enough to have fun. And with that there is also no guarantee I would even find it fun, or can ever find it fun after that horrible experience trying to get good. I am simply not a competitive player.

And I believe gear breaks to with pvp deaths? If so another reason... I die so much it would break the bank.

KiraTsukasa

Zach2322 wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Because PvE is about having fun and playing the way you want, while PvP is all about "the meta" and what's good and what's bad and fun is determined by if you're "doing it right" or not.

That seems backwards.... but that's just my opinion

Really? I have an ice mage warden that does just fine in PvE, but if I ever took her into PvP, I would be laughed right out of Cyrodiil.

Zach2322

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Really? I have an ice mage warden that does just fine in PvE, but if I ever took her into PvP, I would be laughed right out of Cyrodiil.

Ice is incredibly useful of pvp with it providing snares and lowering the damage your opponent does. I guarantee if you brought your warden into a vet dungeon or a trial, you will be judged more than you would in pvp for using ice.

coop500

Personally I don't like PVP because of the community, not the playstyle.

"Carebears" comes to mind when I say this, plus many PVPers seem to find joy in picking on the weak links, mainly, PVE players, rather than going out and fighting someone more their level.

LadyLethalla

My first PvP experience was getting ganked just out of home base - ie inside the scroll gate. Twice.
After that, I didn't return for an awfully long time. But hey, I did go back; I made some friends, joined a guild and became Empress of Blackwater Blade for 12 or so glorious hours.

I don't hate PvP but I do have to be in the mood for it. And it goes without saying that if I'm going to stay in Cyro for any significant amount of time (and not just questing), there needs to be an active population of my faction. Getting constantly murderated ain't fun.

myskyrim26

I don't hate PVP. I just don't care about it.
For me, PVP has no sense at all. When I'm doing quests, I'm involved into some interesting story wich leads to some result. I discovr something new. The consiquencies of the quest lead me further to a new story. The world around me is changing.
There are no stories in PVP and it leads nowhere. The same pointless fight every day. It maybe exciting at the very start, you rush to help your allies, but then you realise that you're just a hamster in the spinning wheel.
A parade of words has been said - PVP is about your brain, your skills... No. PVP is generally about this:
- noone fights a player equal in skills and strengh. Everyone is just finding someone weaker to kill, the weaker - the better
- victory depends on how large your zerg group is
That's a typical PVP here. Why should I be interested in it at all?
And the battlegrounds: the description is so vague and scary that I don't even want to dig into details. I just think I will never be any good for it, it seems to be something extremely complex.

Motherball

I dont like competition, especially in an rpg where stats can be wildly different from one player to the next.

Delta1038

I hate pvp because I prefer to play solo and am more interested in questing that straight up fighting. Also since none of my friends play the game I have no one to reliably group with and I have yet to find a guild that did not seem like a sad joke or just not my speed. I have nothing against other people pvping and if they enjoy it, go for it. But I never will and I also never accept duels because it is just not any fun to me.

TequilaFire

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Zach2322 wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Because PvE is about having fun and playing the way you want, while PvP is all about "the meta" and what's good and what's bad and fun is determined by if you're "doing it right" or not.

That seems backwards.... but that's just my opinion

Really? I have an ice mage warden that does just fine in PvE, but if I ever took her into PvP, I would be laughed right out of Cyrodiil.

What happens when yo ask to sign up for a trial with that build?
Wardens Ice skills in PvP are pretty effective.

MehrunesFlagon

TequilaFire wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Zach2322 wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Because PvE is about having fun and playing the way you want, while PvP is all about "the meta" and what's good and what's bad and fun is determined by if you're "doing it right" or not.

That seems backwards.... but that's just my opinion

Really? I have an ice mage warden that does just fine in PvE, but if I ever took her into PvP, I would be laughed right out of Cyrodiil.

What happens when yo ask to sign up for a trial with that build?
Wardens Ice skills in PvP are pretty effective.

You get kicked

Samadhi

MajBludd wrote: »

Why do most pve players hate pvp?

Because the human ego gets in the way
players who are afraid of their shortcomings being 'judged' by other players
avoid situations where failure may lead to such

it goes both ways tho
personally fear group PvE content on similar ego-based reasons
but where my variation comes in
is a lack of concern of being judged by another player outperforming me (PvP)
and an excess of concern of being judged by another player for failing to perform my designated role (group PvE)

this also manifests for me as an unwillingness to play DPS roles in group content
due to a lack of confidence in being able to output sufficient DPS to help the team

if you look beyond the PvP/PvE dichotomy
you will also witness players who are against the elitist sentiments of Trials guilds

What is helpful is to stop thinking of there as being two broad categories of PvE and PvP players

If you take a step back and frame the different groups from the lens of Bartle's Taxonomy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxpW2ltDNow

some of the objections start to 'make more sense'
Socializers hate Killers
and in any given community, Socializers will also be the most active and vocal discussing the game
as that is their preferred manner of engaging with a game's community
so you will witness disproportionate representation of their views; which include a distaste for PvP

you may even encounter communities where PvP players are labeled as sociopaths or psychopaths
because PvP is treated as an 'antisocial' means of engaging with a fundamentally social project of an MMO game

to bring this back around to the personal level
am primarily an Explorer -- like to poke game mechanics and see the ways in which things bend
interacting with PvP players allows me to examine mechanics through a lens that is not available to me by interacting with NPCs
so Killers do not bother me; nor does being killed -- it furthers my exploration of the game
but the constant changes Achievers want made to skills and passives to make everyone function identically in end-game scenarios
makes my exploration of the game into a less-rewarding bore

where my ego gets in the way and has me judge and resent Achievers
is in imagining that there is some mechanic or something that no one else has yet discovered for me to be the first to uncover
that may end up lost in efforts to homogenize the game

where my ego gets in the way and has me turn off Zone chat to avoid Socializers
is in dealing with severe anxiety conditions and a mistrust of others/a belief that people are out to do me harm and the worst of them will mask it behind friendliness
tracing back to childhood trauma
words tear at my soul; PvP deaths just get laughed off because only my pixels are impacted

KiraTsukasa

TequilaFire wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Zach2322 wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Because PvE is about having fun and playing the way you want, while PvP is all about "the meta" and what's good and what's bad and fun is determined by if you're "doing it right" or not.

That seems backwards.... but that's just my opinion

Really? I have an ice mage warden that does just fine in PvE, but if I ever took her into PvP, I would be laughed right out of Cyrodiil.

What happens when yo ask to sign up for a trial with that build?
Wardens Ice skills in PvP are pretty effective.

Really?

Now, I'm talking magic based, ice staff, light armor, ignoring the animal and plant skills warden. Still feel the same way?

Kel

I just don't buy the "toxic" reason.
More accurately, there are toxic players everywhere. PvE and PvP. If you're going to let one bad apple spoil the bunch, then there's no hope.
I heard alot about the negitive players in PvP. But I've only ever ran into a few. One of the reasons I've been hooked into ESO pvp is because most of the players have been helpful and hilarious for the most part.
I've had many more insults thrown my way and gear critiques and saying I'm bad for only hitting 34k dps (in normal dungeons) in PvE than I've ever heard in PvP. It exsists in both areas. All you have to do is see threads on dps here every day...
Dueling is where I draw the line. Because when you win a duel, that somehow makes you the scrub and a loser. Don't duel..especially around the undaunted area's. Unless you like getting called a scrub for winning..

Linaleah

pvp as a concept is good for the game becasue a lot of people are competitive in that particular way. unfortunately in too many games, including this one - pvp balancing inevitably negatively affects pve portion of the game, so yeah, pve players are understandably not happy about that.

personaly I'm not a competitive person in that way. the only competition I genuinely enjoy is with myself, I don't need or want or like to beat other people. even when I do enjoy pvp, its the parts of it that feature cooperative play, like sieges. I don't like the chaos. but that's me. contrary to some edge claims its first and foremost about state of mind and personal preferences, NOT skill.

Samadhi

jabrone77 wrote: »

I just don't buy the "toxic" reason.
More accurately, there are toxic players everywhere. PvE and PvP. If you're going to let one bad apple spoil the bunch, then there's no hope.
I heard alot about the negitive players in PvP. But I've only ever ran into a few. One of the reasons I've been hooked into ESO pvp is because most of the players have been helpful and hilarious for the most part.
...

Find PvP players in ESO are predominately like members of the body-building forum in this unrelated video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpy1FlGKYz0

In that PvP guilds and players frequently have more confidence in new PvP players than those players have in themselves

there are definitely supportive and helpful people in the PvE community as well,
but personally always end up feeling that PvP lets me play how I like, win or lose
while group PvE requires me to change my loadout and habits to function at the 'best' level for my group, because 'losing' is wasting everyone else's time

lucky_Sage

srfrogg23 wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

It is all about ego, a player that doesn't like PvP can't handle they got beat by another player. In PvE if they get killed no one notices as much.

No, it's not "all about that". Believe it or not, some folks' egos aren't that fragile. It's simply a matter of PvP not appealing.

I make no bones about the fact that I am a mediocre player, at best, both PvE and, especially, PvP but it's not due to a fragile ego. I just don't enjoy PvP.

Define what is not appealing if it is not that, why don't you enjoy PvP?
Why does fighting computer scripted NPC not bother you but fighting human controlled character does?
It can't be because a person doesn't like killing as no one really dies. Also there is just as much salt in group PvE.
Don't get me wrong I respect your decision but I have found once a player that thought they hated PvP got over the dying part they actually stay and enjoy the mode.

Without intending to be ironic, I find PvP to be extremely repetitive. Once you get the right gear and skills, it all boils down to “run over here, capture this objective, now run over there and capture that objective...”.

It keeps me entertained for a little bit, but I can’t get drawn into it the way other people do. I just get bored.

don't zerg 1vx or get a group of 2 to 8 to go wipe zergs then its fun then you see. when a group of 8 wipes a group of 30 its quite fun

It can be fun in the short term. But after you do that, then you do it again, and again, and again. One of the things I like about the PvE side of things is the new mechanics that different boss fights throw into the game, it means new puzzles to solve and new challenges to overcome. Throwing random team mates with varying skill levels into the mix changes up that dynamic even more.

For PvP, it just doesn’t seem as varied, which is really weird considering it’s supposed to be the most unpredictable, varied, and dynamic form of gameplay. But, all I see is meat-shields spamming wrecking-blow, and capture the objective, capture the objective, capture the objective.

It is really cool sieging castles, though. Watching catapults and trebuchets rain down death on an enemy held fortress in this game is like something straight out of a movie.

I don't siege its boring. how is doing the same boss fight over and over better its fun like 2 runs that's it atleast in pvp fights are almost always different and 100x's for variables to each fight doing a dunguons you only have a few things to know about who your fighting but in pvp you need to know builds judge what there using and learn how to counter and make up for your classes/build weaknesses the game basically has 10 different classes in the little pvp you've done you know how all of them set up burst when they do it. how they survive yours how to kite them etc. when all but 2 to 4 vet dungeons are all soloable when suppose to be 4 maned. pve is boring and easy