GallantGuardian wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »@Drdeath20 im adding to your post!
-Solar barrage is clunky because of cast time.
-Dark flare is a niche skill. Long cast time plus travel time plus its almost always dodged or worse reflected. No mobility means this skill is highly countered.
-Jabs/sweeps/radiant oppression are broken. need to test if abilities are still broken. Radiant Opression is still too expensive for an execute.
-Radiant aura is terrible because it costs mag to provide minor mag steal that ele drain gives for no cost and with 5280 penetration. Radiant aura but offer a combat buff and better sustain in order to compete with ele drain.
-Repentance is a selfish pve skill. It must return stamina regardless of who took the corpse first.
-Unstable core doesnt hit hard enough. The cc immunity, despite a unique idea, further limits this ability's desired intent to be delayed dmg.
- No class root or AOE defense. We need a version of miss chance to be returned or increase defense greatly in other areas to offset healing.
- no class access to majory brutality or major sorcery.
- passives are not competitive to other classes. We used to have a passive that returned 2% mag every time we cast a spell, we used to increase the crit chance of allies with our resto healing. But alot of our passives boost spells that are lackluster and therefore make terrible passives.
-Most the templar passives are buffs to their skills that still make them lack luster. So i have to spend 4 skill points on a skill and it still sucks?!?
-No mobility. Or very least no defensive mechanics to justify being stuck in place.
-No real reason to use any of the templars offensive ultimates. Meteor is cheaper than nova plus it passively boosts your magicka and recovery plus it does instant damage plus it tracks your opponent. Soul assault for single targets.
-There is no passive bonus for slotting most of templar abilities.
-aedric spear morphs should have been swaped.
-i still cannot find a use for healing ritual because of the cast time and same healing output as BoL. This should be a self target HoT or offensive buff without cast time.
-purifying light does not fracture or breach I think it should give minor armor buff honestly. This ability's intent feels more like a healer support than burst spell and magplars could use the defenses/speed.
-javelin is expensive and pushes your opponent away from you.
-i have a tough time seeing how a class skill like shards/holy shards is any better than orbs. A world skill like orbs is on par with a class skill and orbs are ,at times, easier to access.
-gap closer is broken is actually much better than before. We just need more defense outside heals to justify being stuck in a long gap closer animation (need a self target HOT or passive defense)
-is there ever a time when anybody would choose explosive charge over the stun morph you choose explosive charge to always deal damage after you try to cast dark flare/destro heavy attack. Miats removal should help, but I agree it's not an attractive morph when crit rush can snare/always deal a crit.
-no races/sets specifically buff magicka damage, which is majority of templar damage. war maiden buffs magic damage and innate boosts the damage of our class abilities. Fix our abilities/passives, youll see more benefit out of these sets.
-just about every thing is a channel or it has a cast time plus travel time. Which can be great if we had our AOE cc mechanic to justify being stuck in these cast times while taking damage.
-the only real defensive ability is a burst heal. -Every other class has a usuable defensive mechanic which is better than a heal. Once a templar starts to heal they are stuck solely healing till they die.
-templars class shield is another niche skill. Make radiant ward scale off max mag or remove nerfs to max health/dmg and make it ignore battlespirit debuff.
-ritual of ret damage does not scare anyone. It also procs defile/wizard reposte set when you don't want it to making it terrible. We should have our purge cost removed drastically, and maybe Ritual grant a hot? idk.
-honor the dead and BoL are not even a guranteed heal for the caster. When you get in a jam in a group your heal becomes a maybe heal.
All of this boils down to what I call a very clunky class.
I agree. We just need to be specific with our feedback in order to correctly communicate what's wrong with the class.
Thanks!
Being specific and correctly communicating has been going on for over a year... theydont seem to care
At this point I’d only come back if they decided to give templars a class change token and get rid of the class all together
There is nothing unique about it and for the most part youre going outside of the class skills to be effective ...
I've tested various gear setups and CP distributions on my DW magplar over about 30 parses this morning. In my opinion Radiant Oppression is not fixed in the slightest and any damage boost to sweeps barely makes up for the dps loss from the Off-Balance changes.
Long story short: post Dragon Bones patch= 1.5-2.5K dps loss on average. Thanks ZoS.
Agreed.
The Radiant Oppression issue we have been pointing out for months is that the execute additive/multiplicative scaling fix they applied in HOTR didn't get applied to Radiant Destruction and morphs for some reason. But instead of fixing that, they worked on a different issue relevant only to the Oppression morph, which is small compared to the other scaling issue.
And I don't know what on earth they did to Sweeps. The new fix only lets Sweeps scale correctly with some damage done/taken bonuses (like Minor Vulnerability) but not others (like Minor Berserk), and somehow they broke its functionality in CP PVP as a bonus.
Hopefully this gets sorted out in the next incremental patch or two. Otherwise RIP templar for another six months.
Joy_Division wrote: »Only against a target dummy, no PvP.
Structured Entropy - exact same damage pre and post patch (including minor vulnerability)
Reflective Light + Dot : same
Purifying Light: same
Toppling Charge: Holy crap this was over-nerfed. crit of 10445 turned into 8488. That's crazy. This skill isn't that good.
Sweeps: Same damage without minor vulnerability. % calculations with minor vulnerability slightly higher post patch, so that's the extend of the fix.
I forget to test radiant destruction because I dont use that skill anymore. But it looks like all they did was make the bonus to the damage morph scale differently, so there wont be any difference on it since the % is so small and you'll be out of magicka anyways.
As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.
Joy_Division wrote: »As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.
Joy_Division wrote: »As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.
^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.
^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.
^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.
Joy_Division wrote: »Only against a target dummy, no PvP.
Structured Entropy - exact same damage pre and post patch (including minor vulnerability)
Reflective Light + Dot : same
Purifying Light: same
Toppling Charge: Holy crap this was over-nerfed. crit of 10445 turned into 8488. That's crazy. This skill isn't that good.
Sweeps: Same damage without minor vulnerability. % calculations with minor vulnerability slightly higher post patch, so that's the extend of the fix.
I forget to test radiant destruction because I dont use that skill anymore. But it looks like all they did was make the bonus to the damage morph scale differently, so there wont be any difference on it since the % is so small and you'll be out of magicka anyways.
As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.
I think they are gearing up for spell crafting. Nerf every spell, turn them into base spells then put out crown spell craft stones to promote spending real money.
Joy_Division wrote: »As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.
^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.
Radiant Oppression is fixed and work good now. Jabs got bigger aoe to easier land attacks and fixed with vulnerability debuff so it will deal more damage in pve, but big damage reduction problem on cp pvp. You can check damage numbers before update with your friends and after update to see how much it changed.PeteDahhSneak wrote: »So where do we stand with this? Am I in for a rude awakening tomorrow when the update hits the Xbox? As far as I understand, radiant still hasn't been fixed and jabs/sweeps in CP PvP has been nerfed. Is this correct? @Cinbri
Radiant Oppression is fixed and work good now. Jabs got bigger aoe to easier land attacks and fixed with vulnerability debuff so it will deal more damage in pve, but big damage reduction problem on cp pvp. You can check damage numbers before update with your friends and after update to see how much it changed.PeteDahhSneak wrote: »So where do we stand with this? Am I in for a rude awakening tomorrow when the update hits the Xbox? As far as I understand, radiant still hasn't been fixed and jabs/sweeps in CP PvP has been nerfed. Is this correct? @Cinbri
jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »Radiant Oppression is fixed and work good now. Jabs got bigger aoe to easier land attacks and fixed with vulnerability debuff so it will deal more damage in pve, but big damage reduction problem on cp pvp. You can check damage numbers before update with your friends and after update to see how much it changed.PeteDahhSneak wrote: »So where do we stand with this? Am I in for a rude awakening tomorrow when the update hits the Xbox? As far as I understand, radiant still hasn't been fixed and jabs/sweeps in CP PvP has been nerfed. Is this correct? @Cinbri
Cinbri, Is Zos aware of this new mitigation bug from the CP stars? I really want this fixed because I main pvp templar in NA and this patch has been miserable.
jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »Radiant Oppression is fixed and work good now. Jabs got bigger aoe to easier land attacks and fixed with vulnerability debuff so it will deal more damage in pve, but big damage reduction problem on cp pvp. You can check damage numbers before update with your friends and after update to see how much it changed.PeteDahhSneak wrote: »So where do we stand with this? Am I in for a rude awakening tomorrow when the update hits the Xbox? As far as I understand, radiant still hasn't been fixed and jabs/sweeps in CP PvP has been nerfed. Is this correct? @Cinbri
Cinbri, Is Zos aware of this new mitigation bug from the CP stars? I really want this fixed because I main pvp templar in NA and this patch has been miserable.
They’ve been tagged on it since everything else was Fixed on PTS but that was the last patch so they’ve been silent since.
I still get by ok on my Stamplar but I’m running a pretty glass hunding and ravager build
jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »Radiant Oppression is fixed and work good now. Jabs got bigger aoe to easier land attacks and fixed with vulnerability debuff so it will deal more damage in pve, but big damage reduction problem on cp pvp. You can check damage numbers before update with your friends and after update to see how much it changed.PeteDahhSneak wrote: »So where do we stand with this? Am I in for a rude awakening tomorrow when the update hits the Xbox? As far as I understand, radiant still hasn't been fixed and jabs/sweeps in CP PvP has been nerfed. Is this correct? @Cinbri
Cinbri, Is Zos aware of this new mitigation bug from the CP stars? I really want this fixed because I main pvp templar in NA and this patch has been miserable.
dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »@Drdeath20 im adding to your post!
-Solar barrage is clunky because of cast time.
-Dark flare is a niche skill. Long cast time plus travel time plus its almost always dodged or worse reflected. No mobility means this skill is highly countered.
-Jabs/sweeps/radiant oppression are broken. need to test if abilities are still broken. Radiant Opression is still too expensive for an execute.
-Radiant aura is terrible because it costs mag to provide minor mag steal that ele drain gives for no cost and with 5280 penetration. Radiant aura but offer a combat buff and better sustain in order to compete with ele drain.
-Repentance is a selfish pve skill. It must return stamina regardless of who took the corpse first.
-Unstable core doesnt hit hard enough. The cc immunity, despite a unique idea, further limits this ability's desired intent to be delayed dmg.
- No class root or AOE defense. We need a version of miss chance to be returned or increase defense greatly in other areas to offset healing.
- no class access to majory brutality or major sorcery.
- passives are not competitive to other classes. We used to have a passive that returned 2% mag every time we cast a spell, we used to increase the crit chance of allies with our resto healing. But alot of our passives boost spells that are lackluster and therefore make terrible passives.
-Most the templar passives are buffs to their skills that still make them lack luster. So i have to spend 4 skill points on a skill and it still sucks?!?
-No mobility. Or very least no defensive mechanics to justify being stuck in place.
-No real reason to use any of the templars offensive ultimates. Meteor is cheaper than nova plus it passively boosts your magicka and recovery plus it does instant damage plus it tracks your opponent. Soul assault for single targets.
-There is no passive bonus for slotting most of templar abilities.
-aedric spear morphs should have been swaped.
-i still cannot find a use for healing ritual because of the cast time and same healing output as BoL. This should be a self target HoT or offensive buff without cast time.
-purifying light does not fracture or breach I think it should give minor armor buff honestly. This ability's intent feels more like a healer support than burst spell and magplars could use the defenses/speed.
-javelin is expensive and pushes your opponent away from you.
-i have a tough time seeing how a class skill like shards/holy shards is any better than orbs. A world skill like orbs is on par with a class skill and orbs are ,at times, easier to access.
-gap closer is broken is actually much better than before. We just need more defense outside heals to justify being stuck in a long gap closer animation (need a self target HOT or passive defense)
-is there ever a time when anybody would choose explosive charge over the stun morph you choose explosive charge to always deal damage after you try to cast dark flare/destro heavy attack. Miats removal should help, but I agree it's not an attractive morph when crit rush can snare/always deal a crit.
-no races/sets specifically buff magicka damage, which is majority of templar damage. war maiden buffs magic damage and innate boosts the damage of our class abilities. Fix our abilities/passives, youll see more benefit out of these sets.
-just about every thing is a channel or it has a cast time plus travel time. Which can be great if we had our AOE cc mechanic to justify being stuck in these cast times while taking damage.
-the only real defensive ability is a burst heal. -Every other class has a usuable defensive mechanic which is better than a heal. Once a templar starts to heal they are stuck solely healing till they die.
-templars class shield is another niche skill. Make radiant ward scale off max mag or remove nerfs to max health/dmg and make it ignore battlespirit debuff.
-ritual of ret damage does not scare anyone. It also procs defile/wizard reposte set when you don't want it to making it terrible. We should have our purge cost removed drastically, and maybe Ritual grant a hot? idk.
-honor the dead and BoL are not even a guranteed heal for the caster. When you get in a jam in a group your heal becomes a maybe heal.
All of this boils down to what I call a very clunky class.
I agree. We just need to be specific with our feedback in order to correctly communicate what's wrong with the class.
Thanks!
Joy_Division wrote: »As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.
^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.
dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »@Drdeath20 im adding to your post!
-Solar barrage is clunky because of cast time.
-Dark flare is a niche skill. Long cast time plus travel time plus its almost always dodged or worse reflected. No mobility means this skill is highly countered.
-Jabs/sweeps/radiant oppression are broken. need to test if abilities are still broken. Radiant Opression is still too expensive for an execute.
-Radiant aura is terrible because it costs mag to provide minor mag steal that ele drain gives for no cost and with 5280 penetration. Radiant aura but offer a combat buff and better sustain in order to compete with ele drain.
-Repentance is a selfish pve skill. It must return stamina regardless of who took the corpse first.
-Unstable core doesnt hit hard enough. The cc immunity, despite a unique idea, further limits this ability's desired intent to be delayed dmg.
- No class root or AOE defense. We need a version of miss chance to be returned or increase defense greatly in other areas to offset healing.
- no class access to majory brutality or major sorcery.
- passives are not competitive to other classes. We used to have a passive that returned 2% mag every time we cast a spell, we used to increase the crit chance of allies with our resto healing. But alot of our passives boost spells that are lackluster and therefore make terrible passives.
-Most the templar passives are buffs to their skills that still make them lack luster. So i have to spend 4 skill points on a skill and it still sucks?!?
-No mobility. Or very least no defensive mechanics to justify being stuck in place.
-No real reason to use any of the templars offensive ultimates. Meteor is cheaper than nova plus it passively boosts your magicka and recovery plus it does instant damage plus it tracks your opponent. Soul assault for single targets.
-There is no passive bonus for slotting most of templar abilities.
-aedric spear morphs should have been swaped.
-i still cannot find a use for healing ritual because of the cast time and same healing output as BoL. This should be a self target HoT or offensive buff without cast time.
-purifying light does not fracture or breach I think it should give minor armor buff honestly. This ability's intent feels more like a healer support than burst spell and magplars could use the defenses/speed.
-javelin is expensive and pushes your opponent away from you.
-i have a tough time seeing how a class skill like shards/holy shards is any better than orbs. A world skill like orbs is on par with a class skill and orbs are ,at times, easier to access.
-gap closer is broken is actually much better than before. We just need more defense outside heals to justify being stuck in a long gap closer animation (need a self target HOT or passive defense)
-is there ever a time when anybody would choose explosive charge over the stun morph you choose explosive charge to always deal damage after you try to cast dark flare/destro heavy attack. Miats removal should help, but I agree it's not an attractive morph when crit rush can snare/always deal a crit.
-no races/sets specifically buff magicka damage, which is majority of templar damage. war maiden buffs magic damage and innate boosts the damage of our class abilities. Fix our abilities/passives, youll see more benefit out of these sets.
-just about every thing is a channel or it has a cast time plus travel time. Which can be great if we had our AOE cc mechanic to justify being stuck in these cast times while taking damage.
-the only real defensive ability is a burst heal. -Every other class has a usuable defensive mechanic which is better than a heal. Once a templar starts to heal they are stuck solely healing till they die.
-templars class shield is another niche skill. Make radiant ward scale off max mag or remove nerfs to max health/dmg and make it ignore battlespirit debuff.
-ritual of ret damage does not scare anyone. It also procs defile/wizard reposte set when you don't want it to making it terrible. We should have our purge cost removed drastically, and maybe Ritual grant a hot? idk.
-honor the dead and BoL are not even a guranteed heal for the caster. When you get in a jam in a group your heal becomes a maybe heal.
All of this boils down to what I call a very clunky class.
I agree. We just need to be specific with our feedback in order to correctly communicate what's wrong with the class.
Thanks!
Added to your list I would like to see the Templar Gap Closer have one stamina morph. It would go a long way toward improving the Stamplar.
dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.
^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.
Templar problems have been more consistent and persistent. If they start bringing all other classes to Templar level I think a lot of people would quit the game.
dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.
^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.
Templar problems have been more consistent and persistent. If they start bringing all other classes to Templar level I think a lot of people would quit the game.
I mean, you say this and then Rich last night takes a Stamplar through VMA even with the jabs bug and is successful. Even when you look at leader boards, Templars may be 'third' in overall class usage in most places but they are still within 1% of the others. Clearly Templars are not so bad that nobody is using them, it's just that so many people will opt to play the easiest class.
dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.
^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.
Templar problems have been more consistent and persistent. If they start bringing all other classes to Templar level I think a lot of people would quit the game.
I mean, you say this and then Rich last night takes a Stamplar through VMA even with the jabs bug and is successful. Even when you look at leader boards, Templars may be 'third' in overall class usage in most places but they are still within 1% of the others. Clearly Templars are not so bad that nobody is using them, it's just that so many people will opt to play the easiest class.
Well considering that 1 class requires dlc, probably not many people have access to them.
So in reality templars are 3rd used out of 4 and they are the must have healer for any tough content.
dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.
^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.
Templar problems have been more consistent and persistent. If they start bringing all other classes to Templar level I think a lot of people would quit the game.
I mean, you say this and then Rich last night takes a Stamplar through VMA even with the jabs bug and is successful. Even when you look at leader boards, Templars may be 'third' in overall class usage in most places but they are still within 1% of the others. Clearly Templars are not so bad that nobody is using them, it's just that so many people will opt to play the easiest class.