Fix Templar

Minno

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

@Drdeath20 im adding to your post!

-Solar barrage is clunky because of cast time.
-Dark flare is a niche skill. Long cast time plus travel time plus its almost always dodged or worse reflected. No mobility means this skill is highly countered.
-Jabs/sweeps/radiant oppression are broken. need to test if abilities are still broken. Radiant Opression is still too expensive for an execute.
-Radiant aura is terrible because it costs mag to provide minor mag steal that ele drain gives for no cost and with 5280 penetration. Radiant aura but offer a combat buff and better sustain in order to compete with ele drain.
-Repentance is a selfish pve skill. It must return stamina regardless of who took the corpse first.
-Unstable core doesnt hit hard enough. The cc immunity, despite a unique idea, further limits this ability's desired intent to be delayed dmg.
- No class root or AOE defense. We need a version of miss chance to be returned or increase defense greatly in other areas to offset healing.
- no class access to majory brutality or major sorcery.
- passives are not competitive to other classes. We used to have a passive that returned 2% mag every time we cast a spell, we used to increase the crit chance of allies with our resto healing. But alot of our passives boost spells that are lackluster and therefore make terrible passives.
-Most the templar passives are buffs to their skills that still make them lack luster. So i have to spend 4 skill points on a skill and it still sucks?!?
-No mobility. Or very least no defensive mechanics to justify being stuck in place.
-No real reason to use any of the templars offensive ultimates. Meteor is cheaper than nova plus it passively boosts your magicka and recovery plus it does instant damage plus it tracks your opponent. Soul assault for single targets.
-There is no passive bonus for slotting most of templar abilities.
-aedric spear morphs should have been swaped.
-i still cannot find a use for healing ritual because of the cast time and same healing output as BoL. This should be a self target HoT or offensive buff without cast time.
-purifying light does not fracture or breach I think it should give minor armor buff honestly. This ability's intent feels more like a healer support than burst spell and magplars could use the defenses/speed.
-javelin is expensive and pushes your opponent away from you.
-i have a tough time seeing how a class skill like shards/holy shards is any better than orbs. A world skill like orbs is on par with a class skill and orbs are ,at times, easier to access.
-gap closer is broken is actually much better than before. We just need more defense outside heals to justify being stuck in a long gap closer animation (need a self target HOT or passive defense)
-is there ever a time when anybody would choose explosive charge over the stun morph you choose explosive charge to always deal damage after you try to cast dark flare/destro heavy attack. Miats removal should help, but I agree it's not an attractive morph when crit rush can snare/always deal a crit.
-no races/sets specifically buff magicka damage, which is majority of templar damage. war maiden buffs magic damage and innate boosts the damage of our class abilities. Fix our abilities/passives, youll see more benefit out of these sets.
-just about every thing is a channel or it has a cast time plus travel time. Which can be great if we had our AOE cc mechanic to justify being stuck in these cast times while taking damage.
-the only real defensive ability is a burst heal. -Every other class has a usuable defensive mechanic which is better than a heal. Once a templar starts to heal they are stuck solely healing till they die.
-templars class shield is another niche skill. Make radiant ward scale off max mag or remove nerfs to max health/dmg and make it ignore battlespirit debuff.
-ritual of ret damage does not scare anyone. It also procs defile/wizard reposte set when you don't want it to making it terrible. We should have our purge cost removed drastically, and maybe Ritual grant a hot? idk.
-honor the dead and BoL are not even a guranteed heal for the caster. When you get in a jam in a group your heal becomes a maybe heal.

All of this boils down to what I call a very clunky class.

I agree. We just need to be specific with our feedback in order to correctly communicate what's wrong with the class.

Thanks!

Being specific and correctly communicating has been going on for over a year... theydont seem to care

At this point I’d only come back if they decided to give templars a class change token and get rid of the class all together

There is nothing unique about it and for the most part youre going outside of the class skills to be effective ...

Great feedback! See you later then?

Minno

casparian wrote: »

Bladefyr wrote: »

I've tested various gear setups and CP distributions on my DW magplar over about 30 parses this morning. In my opinion Radiant Oppression is not fixed in the slightest and any damage boost to sweeps barely makes up for the dps loss from the Off-Balance changes.

Long story short: post Dragon Bones patch= 1.5-2.5K dps loss on average. Thanks ZoS.

Agreed.

The Radiant Oppression issue we have been pointing out for months is that the execute additive/multiplicative scaling fix they applied in HOTR didn't get applied to Radiant Destruction and morphs for some reason. But instead of fixing that, they worked on a different issue relevant only to the Oppression morph, which is small compared to the other scaling issue.

And I don't know what on earth they did to Sweeps. The new fix only lets Sweeps scale correctly with some damage done/taken bonuses (like Minor Vulnerability) but not others (like Minor Berserk), and somehow they broke its functionality in CP PVP as a bonus.

Hopefully this gets sorted out in the next incremental patch or two. Otherwise RIP templar for another six months.

I was worried about this. The first PTS patch notes didn't really mention this scaling issues and I brought it up but I think other players corrected me at the time saying their changes included this.

Guess they found an issue that Templars haven't been complaining about, fixed it, but it was an issue that was actually hiding the real scaling issue Templars have been complaining about.

Guess we have to wait till next pts patch again lol.

Joy_Division

Only against a target dummy, no PvP.

Structured Entropy - exact same damage pre and post patch (including minor vulnerability)
Reflective Light + Dot : same
Purifying Light: same
Toppling Charge: Holy crap this was over-nerfed. crit of 10445 turned into 8488. That's crazy. This skill isn't that good.
Sweeps: Same damage without minor vulnerability. % calculations with minor vulnerability slightly higher post patch, so that's the extend of the fix.

I forget to test radiant destruction because I dont use that skill anymore. But it looks like all they did was make the bonus to the damage morph scale differently, so there wont be any difference on it since the % is so small and you'll be out of magicka anyways.

As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

Only against a target dummy, no PvP.

Structured Entropy - exact same damage pre and post patch (including minor vulnerability)
Reflective Light + Dot : same
Purifying Light: same
Toppling Charge: Holy crap this was over-nerfed. crit of 10445 turned into 8488. That's crazy. This skill isn't that good.
Sweeps: Same damage without minor vulnerability. % calculations with minor vulnerability slightly higher post patch, so that's the extend of the fix.

I forget to test radiant destruction because I dont use that skill anymore. But it looks like all they did was make the bonus to the damage morph scale differently, so there wont be any difference on it since the % is so small and you'll be out of magicka anyways.

As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.

I think they are gearing up for spell crafting. Nerf every spell, turn them into base spells then put out crown spell craft stones to promote spending real money.

ADarklore

Joy_Division wrote: »

As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.

^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.

maxjapank

ADarklore wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.

^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.

This is a Templar thread. It is not a Sorc, DK, NB, or Warden thread.

maxjapank

ADarklore wrote: »

^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.

Well...let's just leave this thread about Templars. The thread is about "Fixing Templars". And Templars do need some fixing.

[minor edit for bait]

casparian

ADarklore wrote: »

^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.

We made a thread solely about templars because we play templar (among other classes) and wanted to have a focused discussion about that class. Many of us have participated in other threads about other classes during this PTS cycle as well.

[minor edit for quote]

Idinuse

Minno wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Only against a target dummy, no PvP.

Structured Entropy - exact same damage pre and post patch (including minor vulnerability)
Reflective Light + Dot : same
Purifying Light: same
Toppling Charge: Holy crap this was over-nerfed. crit of 10445 turned into 8488. That's crazy. This skill isn't that good.
Sweeps: Same damage without minor vulnerability. % calculations with minor vulnerability slightly higher post patch, so that's the extend of the fix.

I forget to test radiant destruction because I dont use that skill anymore. But it looks like all they did was make the bonus to the damage morph scale differently, so there wont be any difference on it since the % is so small and you'll be out of magicka anyways.

As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.

I think they are gearing up for spell crafting. Nerf every spell, turn them into base spells then put out crown spell craft stones to promote spending real money.

Then they should do that in the same patch , not let us hang out in the rain until - when? 2020? If ever.

No this simply is not acceptable imo.

Idinuse

ADarklore wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.

^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.

But besides the Templar nerfs, there are still old bugs that have never been truly or successfully addressed that make the class even more gimped already. We could have stayed un-nerfed and still be on gimp par with other classes. And I do empathize with Sorcs too. Well DKs dilemma as well, but Templars have been a nonfunctional class for years (I mean the bugs never truly sorted out, nerfs justified by i.e. Major Mending in class, which they later removed, just leaving the nerfs on the class, justified by Major Mending (now removed), and so on and so on, in perpetuum.

It's been a broken class with broken skills and broken passives for years. Add to that "global" nerfs and class nefs all the time.

Templars have been providing good civil and orderly feedback and suggestions to the broken parts of the class for years, I can link you, without actually getting any constructive feedback nor actions from the developers. Developers looking into it and never really addressing it is not constructive feedback imo, it's just words with no actual results.

PeteDahhSneak

So where do we stand with this? Am I in for a rude awakening tomorrow when the update hits the Xbox? As far as I understand, radiant still hasn't been fixed and jabs/sweeps in CP PvP has been nerfed. Is this correct? @Cinbri

Cinbri

PeteDahhSneak wrote: »

So where do we stand with this? Am I in for a rude awakening tomorrow when the update hits the Xbox? As far as I understand, radiant still hasn't been fixed and jabs/sweeps in CP PvP has been nerfed. Is this correct? @Cinbri

Radiant Oppression is fixed and work good now. Jabs got bigger aoe to easier land attacks and fixed with vulnerability debuff so it will deal more damage in pve, but big damage reduction problem on cp pvp. You can check damage numbers before update with your friends and after update to see how much it changed.

itsfatbass

Neither sweeps NOR beam is fixed yet. I see some comments here saying they are, but they are 100% NOT. They are functioning in the exact same state of adding and not multiplying.

Animus-ESO

Cinbri wrote: »

PeteDahhSneak wrote: »

So where do we stand with this? Am I in for a rude awakening tomorrow when the update hits the Xbox? As far as I understand, radiant still hasn't been fixed and jabs/sweeps in CP PvP has been nerfed. Is this correct? @Cinbri

Radiant Oppression is fixed and work good now. Jabs got bigger aoe to easier land attacks and fixed with vulnerability debuff so it will deal more damage in pve, but big damage reduction problem on cp pvp. You can check damage numbers before update with your friends and after update to see how much it changed.

Cinbri, Is Zos aware of this new mitigation bug from the CP stars? I really want this fixed because I main pvp templar in NA and this patch has been miserable.

technohic

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

PeteDahhSneak wrote: »

So where do we stand with this? Am I in for a rude awakening tomorrow when the update hits the Xbox? As far as I understand, radiant still hasn't been fixed and jabs/sweeps in CP PvP has been nerfed. Is this correct? @Cinbri

Radiant Oppression is fixed and work good now. Jabs got bigger aoe to easier land attacks and fixed with vulnerability debuff so it will deal more damage in pve, but big damage reduction problem on cp pvp. You can check damage numbers before update with your friends and after update to see how much it changed.

Cinbri, Is Zos aware of this new mitigation bug from the CP stars? I really want this fixed because I main pvp templar in NA and this patch has been miserable.

They’ve been tagged on it since everything else was Fixed on PTS but that was the last patch so they’ve been silent since.

I still get by ok on my Stamplar but I’m running a pretty glass hunding and ravager build

Animus-ESO

technohic wrote: »

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

PeteDahhSneak wrote: »

So where do we stand with this? Am I in for a rude awakening tomorrow when the update hits the Xbox? As far as I understand, radiant still hasn't been fixed and jabs/sweeps in CP PvP has been nerfed. Is this correct? @Cinbri

Radiant Oppression is fixed and work good now. Jabs got bigger aoe to easier land attacks and fixed with vulnerability debuff so it will deal more damage in pve, but big damage reduction problem on cp pvp. You can check damage numbers before update with your friends and after update to see how much it changed.

Cinbri, Is Zos aware of this new mitigation bug from the CP stars? I really want this fixed because I main pvp templar in NA and this patch has been miserable.

They’ve been tagged on it since everything else was Fixed on PTS but that was the last patch so they’ve been silent since.

I still get by ok on my Stamplar but I’m running a pretty glass hunding and ravager build

Yeah it's a bit harder as a magica DPS. Im thinking about running that new magica proc set just so I can do a bit better or im thinking about running force pulse from destro staff for my dps.

Skander

Work as intended.

Cinbri

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

PeteDahhSneak wrote: »

So where do we stand with this? Am I in for a rude awakening tomorrow when the update hits the Xbox? As far as I understand, radiant still hasn't been fixed and jabs/sweeps in CP PvP has been nerfed. Is this correct? @Cinbri

Radiant Oppression is fixed and work good now. Jabs got bigger aoe to easier land attacks and fixed with vulnerability debuff so it will deal more damage in pve, but big damage reduction problem on cp pvp. You can check damage numbers before update with your friends and after update to see how much it changed.

Cinbri, Is Zos aware of this new mitigation bug from the CP stars? I really want this fixed because I main pvp templar in NA and this patch has been miserable.

As Gina said it was sent to them along with other bugs lists. So they should be aware of it and as prove is that on release patch some of those reported bugs were ninja fixed, like uncleansable pirate skeleton or shards proper telegraph. Idk why they silent, maybe trying to prove my datas coz sadly noone else posted damage results pre and post update, and once update live it impossible to do.
If it ever be fixed i wont be surprised if it will happen only in next update. Back when I reported Honor bug it was said it gona be fixed and indeed was fixed 3 months later in the middle of pts of next update.

dodgehopper_ESO

Minno wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

@Drdeath20 im adding to your post!

-Solar barrage is clunky because of cast time.
-Dark flare is a niche skill. Long cast time plus travel time plus its almost always dodged or worse reflected. No mobility means this skill is highly countered.
-Jabs/sweeps/radiant oppression are broken. need to test if abilities are still broken. Radiant Opression is still too expensive for an execute.
-Radiant aura is terrible because it costs mag to provide minor mag steal that ele drain gives for no cost and with 5280 penetration. Radiant aura but offer a combat buff and better sustain in order to compete with ele drain.
-Repentance is a selfish pve skill. It must return stamina regardless of who took the corpse first.
-Unstable core doesnt hit hard enough. The cc immunity, despite a unique idea, further limits this ability's desired intent to be delayed dmg.
- No class root or AOE defense. We need a version of miss chance to be returned or increase defense greatly in other areas to offset healing.
- no class access to majory brutality or major sorcery.
- passives are not competitive to other classes. We used to have a passive that returned 2% mag every time we cast a spell, we used to increase the crit chance of allies with our resto healing. But alot of our passives boost spells that are lackluster and therefore make terrible passives.
-Most the templar passives are buffs to their skills that still make them lack luster. So i have to spend 4 skill points on a skill and it still sucks?!?
-No mobility. Or very least no defensive mechanics to justify being stuck in place.
-No real reason to use any of the templars offensive ultimates. Meteor is cheaper than nova plus it passively boosts your magicka and recovery plus it does instant damage plus it tracks your opponent. Soul assault for single targets.
-There is no passive bonus for slotting most of templar abilities.
-aedric spear morphs should have been swaped.
-i still cannot find a use for healing ritual because of the cast time and same healing output as BoL. This should be a self target HoT or offensive buff without cast time.
-purifying light does not fracture or breach I think it should give minor armor buff honestly. This ability's intent feels more like a healer support than burst spell and magplars could use the defenses/speed.
-javelin is expensive and pushes your opponent away from you.
-i have a tough time seeing how a class skill like shards/holy shards is any better than orbs. A world skill like orbs is on par with a class skill and orbs are ,at times, easier to access.
-gap closer is broken is actually much better than before. We just need more defense outside heals to justify being stuck in a long gap closer animation (need a self target HOT or passive defense)
-is there ever a time when anybody would choose explosive charge over the stun morph you choose explosive charge to always deal damage after you try to cast dark flare/destro heavy attack. Miats removal should help, but I agree it's not an attractive morph when crit rush can snare/always deal a crit.
-no races/sets specifically buff magicka damage, which is majority of templar damage. war maiden buffs magic damage and innate boosts the damage of our class abilities. Fix our abilities/passives, youll see more benefit out of these sets.
-just about every thing is a channel or it has a cast time plus travel time. Which can be great if we had our AOE cc mechanic to justify being stuck in these cast times while taking damage.
-the only real defensive ability is a burst heal. -Every other class has a usuable defensive mechanic which is better than a heal. Once a templar starts to heal they are stuck solely healing till they die.
-templars class shield is another niche skill. Make radiant ward scale off max mag or remove nerfs to max health/dmg and make it ignore battlespirit debuff.
-ritual of ret damage does not scare anyone. It also procs defile/wizard reposte set when you don't want it to making it terrible. We should have our purge cost removed drastically, and maybe Ritual grant a hot? idk.
-honor the dead and BoL are not even a guranteed heal for the caster. When you get in a jam in a group your heal becomes a maybe heal.

All of this boils down to what I call a very clunky class.

I agree. We just need to be specific with our feedback in order to correctly communicate what's wrong with the class.

Thanks!

Added to your list I would like to see the Templar Gap Closer have one stamina morph. It would go a long way toward improving the Stamplar.

dodgehopper_ESO

ADarklore wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.

^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.

Templar problems have been more consistent and persistent. If they start bringing all other classes to Templar level I think a lot of people would quit the game.

Minno

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

@Drdeath20 im adding to your post!

-Solar barrage is clunky because of cast time.
-Dark flare is a niche skill. Long cast time plus travel time plus its almost always dodged or worse reflected. No mobility means this skill is highly countered.
-Jabs/sweeps/radiant oppression are broken. need to test if abilities are still broken. Radiant Opression is still too expensive for an execute.
-Radiant aura is terrible because it costs mag to provide minor mag steal that ele drain gives for no cost and with 5280 penetration. Radiant aura but offer a combat buff and better sustain in order to compete with ele drain.
-Repentance is a selfish pve skill. It must return stamina regardless of who took the corpse first.
-Unstable core doesnt hit hard enough. The cc immunity, despite a unique idea, further limits this ability's desired intent to be delayed dmg.
- No class root or AOE defense. We need a version of miss chance to be returned or increase defense greatly in other areas to offset healing.
- no class access to majory brutality or major sorcery.
- passives are not competitive to other classes. We used to have a passive that returned 2% mag every time we cast a spell, we used to increase the crit chance of allies with our resto healing. But alot of our passives boost spells that are lackluster and therefore make terrible passives.
-Most the templar passives are buffs to their skills that still make them lack luster. So i have to spend 4 skill points on a skill and it still sucks?!?
-No mobility. Or very least no defensive mechanics to justify being stuck in place.
-No real reason to use any of the templars offensive ultimates. Meteor is cheaper than nova plus it passively boosts your magicka and recovery plus it does instant damage plus it tracks your opponent. Soul assault for single targets.
-There is no passive bonus for slotting most of templar abilities.
-aedric spear morphs should have been swaped.
-i still cannot find a use for healing ritual because of the cast time and same healing output as BoL. This should be a self target HoT or offensive buff without cast time.
-purifying light does not fracture or breach I think it should give minor armor buff honestly. This ability's intent feels more like a healer support than burst spell and magplars could use the defenses/speed.
-javelin is expensive and pushes your opponent away from you.
-i have a tough time seeing how a class skill like shards/holy shards is any better than orbs. A world skill like orbs is on par with a class skill and orbs are ,at times, easier to access.
-gap closer is broken is actually much better than before. We just need more defense outside heals to justify being stuck in a long gap closer animation (need a self target HOT or passive defense)
-is there ever a time when anybody would choose explosive charge over the stun morph you choose explosive charge to always deal damage after you try to cast dark flare/destro heavy attack. Miats removal should help, but I agree it's not an attractive morph when crit rush can snare/always deal a crit.
-no races/sets specifically buff magicka damage, which is majority of templar damage. war maiden buffs magic damage and innate boosts the damage of our class abilities. Fix our abilities/passives, youll see more benefit out of these sets.
-just about every thing is a channel or it has a cast time plus travel time. Which can be great if we had our AOE cc mechanic to justify being stuck in these cast times while taking damage.
-the only real defensive ability is a burst heal. -Every other class has a usuable defensive mechanic which is better than a heal. Once a templar starts to heal they are stuck solely healing till they die.
-templars class shield is another niche skill. Make radiant ward scale off max mag or remove nerfs to max health/dmg and make it ignore battlespirit debuff.
-ritual of ret damage does not scare anyone. It also procs defile/wizard reposte set when you don't want it to making it terrible. We should have our purge cost removed drastically, and maybe Ritual grant a hot? idk.
-honor the dead and BoL are not even a guranteed heal for the caster. When you get in a jam in a group your heal becomes a maybe heal.

All of this boils down to what I call a very clunky class.

I agree. We just need to be specific with our feedback in order to correctly communicate what's wrong with the class.

Thanks!

Added to your list I would like to see the Templar Gap Closer have one stamina morph. It would go a long way toward improving the Stamplar.

Granted historically shifting morphs for Templar shifted magplar competitiveness to stamplar. Cresant sweep change butchered magplar offensive burst, jabs change gave stamina crit chance on a morph historically granted crit on lower health enemies, potl gives minor resist debuff that even pve Templars would rather slot than proofing light, etc .

I'd rather see the gap closer redesigned with hybrid in mind, and magplar given speed+minor evasion buffs both of which stamplars use to replace the loss of miss chance to great success.

ADarklore

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.

^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.

Templar problems have been more consistent and persistent. If they start bringing all other classes to Templar level I think a lot of people would quit the game.

I mean, you say this and then Rich last night takes a Stamplar through VMA even with the jabs bug and is successful. Even when you look at leader boards, Templars may be 'third' in overall class usage in most places but they are still within 1% of the others. Clearly Templars are not so bad that nobody is using them, it's just that so many people will opt to play the easiest class.

Drdeath20

ADarklore wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.

^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.

Templar problems have been more consistent and persistent. If they start bringing all other classes to Templar level I think a lot of people would quit the game.

I mean, you say this and then Rich last night takes a Stamplar through VMA even with the jabs bug and is successful. Even when you look at leader boards, Templars may be 'third' in overall class usage in most places but they are still within 1% of the others. Clearly Templars are not so bad that nobody is using them, it's just that so many people will opt to play the easiest class.

Well considering that 1 class requires dlc, probably not many people have access to them.

So in reality templars are 3rd used out of 4 and they are the must have healer for any tough content.

Minno

Drdeath20 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.

^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.

Templar problems have been more consistent and persistent. If they start bringing all other classes to Templar level I think a lot of people would quit the game.

I mean, you say this and then Rich last night takes a Stamplar through VMA even with the jabs bug and is successful. Even when you look at leader boards, Templars may be 'third' in overall class usage in most places but they are still within 1% of the others. Clearly Templars are not so bad that nobody is using them, it's just that so many people will opt to play the easiest class.

Well considering that 1 class requires dlc, probably not many people have access to them.

So in reality templars are 3rd used out of 4 and they are the must have healer for any tough content.

Stamplar has access that the following:
- major evasion/consistent dodge roll
- crit buff with main spamable
- bleeds/strong dots
- mag purge dump
- strong hot that scales off WD stacking
- MA gives stamplar 20% didge roll reduction/16% speed buff off Sprint. Orcplars give bonus to jabs spam plus Sprint speed making them a good racial for stamina.

Magplars have to get all those buffs elsewhere sacrificing SD/max mag and still maintain over 14k stamina in order to be combat effective. And the only true hot comes from resto line via mutagen

Rich should have done magplar running force pullse on primetime server for Vma.

dodgehopper_ESO

ADarklore wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

As a side note, I am very disappointed in ZoS's philosophy of overnerfing evey class. I'd love to complain now templars are getting screwed over, but sorcs are overnerfed bc/ frags stinks now, DKs cant PvE DPS (I think they are till good PvP), warden birds is a useless skill since it's beaten out by weapon dpammables, etc.

^THIS! People running around in this thread complaining that Templars are the ones getting nerfed, yet, Sorcs have been nerfed, DK's nerfed, NB's nerfed, Warden's nerfed... it's not just ONE class getting the shaft, it's every class.

Templar problems have been more consistent and persistent. If they start bringing all other classes to Templar level I think a lot of people would quit the game.

I mean, you say this and then Rich last night takes a Stamplar through VMA even with the jabs bug and is successful. Even when you look at leader boards, Templars may be 'third' in overall class usage in most places but they are still within 1% of the others. Clearly Templars are not so bad that nobody is using them, it's just that so many people will opt to play the easiest class.

The class has been through the fun extractor. Just because you can cram something through doesn't mean its operating in the best way. I regret making my first character a Templar, and if I could do it again he'd be a DK... and this character was made in Beta and remade in Early Access. My general disgust with Templar has reached peak levels.

Brotherchaotic

It's just so ridiculous that you can miss someone right in front of you when you can look just about 85 degrees left or right in a duel and hit all strikes.

FineFeathered

i'm going out on a limb here, but when they took the 2 handed (staves in this case) and gave them 2 trait slots, they in fact, split everything else in half and somehow just dropped the other half. That's kind of what this looks like, except the lack of healing is just plain weird.