Minno wrote: »

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Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

"Fixed an issue where damaging procs from passive abilities or Item Sets were not benefiting from your Spell or Physical Penetration in some situations."

This is the only thing I saw. @ZOS_GinaBruno does this include burning light?
Also the lack of fixing jabs, again, from the bug casued by hardy/ele defender/thick skin is an issue. Are we wrong to consider this a bug?

What is the problem with CPs?

hardy/ele defener/thick skin is impacting the dmg of sweeps/jabs (at least compared to live).

Didn't someone post the numbers to back up this bug? Surprised we haven't heard anything back yet as ZOS has been very responsive.

Gina said that she had forwarded Cinbri's testing and numbers, including documentation of that bug, on to Wrobel. Maybe it was too late to get into this patch?

This.

Most likely the cause.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you give us an update on the bug mentioned above?

Any of you guys/gals want to bump this. I'm probably on some ZOS permanent ignore troll list, albeit probably for good reason.

Somewhat concerned that all the work put into fixing the scaling of sweeps will be cancelled out by a different bug.

@Cinbri @Joy_Division @Minno

Edit: autocorrect isn't always correct.

I've long given up on Sweeps or RD. I dont use either skill in PvE and in PvP I mostly reply on backlash, reflective light, proc sets, and opponent's stupidity with Eclipse to kill people.

I just don't have the motivation to do all sorts of testing to see if these things are working. Even if ZoS fixes Sweeps, the healing associated with that skill is not adequate enough in my opinion to go toe-to-toe against a good melee build.

I know we're not complaining like the DKs, but it would definitely make sweeps hit like a wet noodle.

+1 on the sweeps healing being complete garbage.

Well sweeps needs 170% DMG boost and the heal back to bring it back into line. Problem is they removed our DMG and gave us a stupid snare. Then they reduced the heal and stole major mending. The result is the wet noodle that is sweeps.

At least stamplars can stack way over 3.5k wd easily and use jabs for the crit boost. That plus bleeds+vigor make up for being stuck in the channel.

The problem is Stamplar Damage output and Recovery Rates (Repentance is horrible) doesn't make up for the utter gutting of Stamplar survivability.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Get used to it or find another game.

This is what I did not long after morrowind I pretty much stopped playing all together and haven’t been on in months .. I’ll check back from time to time

But they flat out don’t give a crap about templars

They promised a Templar over haul looks like that meant nerf it into the ground


Oh wait we were already there. What’s further than the ground ? That’s where we are

I want to use my template to tank with out having to go outside of the class trees too much to achieve this I’m not talking just for dungeons I want trials too but that’s not gonna happen

I want to be able to dps with my class skills

Again not gonna happen

Zos lied when they said the game patch would feature a templar overhaul. They said it to shut us up hoping we’d forget

Welp you lost my business

Anyone had a chance to test on live which fixes and which[snip]-ups actually went through?

[Edited to remove profanity]

casparian wrote: »

Anyone had a chance to test on live which fixes and which [snip]-ups actually went through?

not yet. I was only able to logon and give my templar's 2h sword a mace makeover lol.

[Edited for quote]

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

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jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

Jabs feel weak in PvP, real weak. Playing without add-ons right now but idk it just feels really underwhelming. Like time to unslot jabs and spin to win underwhelming.

If you don't use jabs why even Templar? The class passives hardly effect anything anymore other than itself.

Well, cleanse and potl are nice. But no, they don't really justify playing StamPlar over another stamina build.

casparian wrote: »

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dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

Jabs feel weak in PvP, real weak. Playing without add-ons right now but idk it just feels really underwhelming. Like time to unslot jabs and spin to win underwhelming.

If you don't use jabs why even Templar? The class passives hardly effect anything anymore other than itself.

The class actually has really good passives for stamina builds, even without Jabs -- 10% extra crit damage just for slotting a decent stun, extra spell resistance and weapon damage, minor mending, ult gen, and cost reduction across the board.

But magplars now no longer have any Aedric Spear abilities worth slotting in PVP (we can't sprint to the target we've just Javelined 8 meters away or ensure we aren't snared to reach them, and Flame/Shock Reach with Master's Destro is a far better CC and damage skill anyway), the weapon damage doesn't do anything for us, and the Minor Mending is a sliver of the healing bonuses we had less than a year ago.

Aedric Spear just needs a complete rework at this point. Fix Sweeps, let Shards remain for the terrific PVE skill it is, and replace everything else.

The whole class needs a rework.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

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Cinbri wrote: »

So, any NA Templar who tested if jabs cp bug was or wasn't fixed?

I'm hearing from my pc friends that it wasn't fixed. Can't test for myself yet since I'm a console pleb.

so they will most likely try to fix this bug after next update and maybe fix it in half a year

Idinuse wrote: »

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Destruent wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

So, any NA Templar who tested if jabs cp bug was or wasn't fixed?

I'm hearing from my pc friends that it wasn't fixed. Can't test for myself yet since I'm a console pleb.

so they will most likely try to fix this bug after next update and maybe fix it in half a year

My goodness i laughed so hard at that pic, it describes what I feel so well too.

@Drdeath20 im adding to your post!

-Solar barrage is clunky because of cast time.
-Dark flare is a niche skill. Long cast time plus travel time plus its almost always dodged or worse reflected. No mobility means this skill is highly countered.
-Jabs/sweeps/radiant oppression are broken. need to test if abilities are still broken. Radiant Opression is still too expensive for an execute.
-Radiant aura is terrible because it costs mag to provide minor mag steal that ele drain gives for no cost and with 5280 penetration. Radiant aura but offer a combat buff and better sustain in order to compete with ele drain.
-Repentance is a selfish pve skill. It must return stamina regardless of who took the corpse first.
-Unstable core doesnt hit hard enough. The cc immunity, despite a unique idea, further limits this ability's desired intent to be delayed dmg.
- No class root or AOE defense. We need a version of miss chance to be returned or increase defense greatly in other areas to offset healing.
- no class access to majory brutality or major sorcery.
- passives are not competitive to other classes. We used to have a passive that returned 2% mag every time we cast a spell, we used to increase the crit chance of allies with our resto healing. But alot of our passives boost spells that are lackluster and therefore make terrible passives.
-Most the templar passives are buffs to their skills that still make them lack luster. So i have to spend 4 skill points on a skill and it still sucks?!?
-No mobility. Or very least no defensive mechanics to justify being stuck in place.
-No real reason to use any of the templars offensive ultimates. Meteor is cheaper than nova plus it passively boosts your magicka and recovery plus it does instant damage plus it tracks your opponent. Soul assault for single targets.
-There is no passive bonus for slotting most of templar abilities.
-aedric spear morphs should have been swaped.
-i still cannot find a use for healing ritual because of the cast time and same healing output as BoL. This should be a self target HoT or offensive buff without cast time.
-purifying light does not fracture or breach I think it should give minor armor buff honestly. This ability's intent feels more like a healer support than burst spell and magplars could use the defenses/speed.
-javelin is expensive and pushes your opponent away from you.
-i have a tough time seeing how a class skill like shards/holy shards is any better than orbs. A world skill like orbs is on par with a class skill and orbs are ,at times, easier to access.
-gap closer is broken is actually much better than before. We just need more defense outside heals to justify being stuck in a long gap closer animation (need a self target HOT or passive defense)
-is there ever a time when anybody would choose explosive charge over the stun morph you choose explosive charge to always deal damage after you try to cast dark flare/destro heavy attack. Miats removal should help, but I agree it's not an attractive morph when crit rush can snare/always deal a crit.
-no races/sets specifically buff magicka damage, which is majority of templar damage. war maiden buffs magic damage and innate boosts the damage of our class abilities. Fix our abilities/passives, youll see more benefit out of these sets.
-just about every thing is a channel or it has a cast time plus travel time. Which can be great if we had our AOE cc mechanic to justify being stuck in these cast times while taking damage.
-the only real defensive ability is a burst heal. -Every other class has a usuable defensive mechanic which is better than a heal. Once a templar starts to heal they are stuck solely healing till they die.
-templars class shield is another niche skill. Make radiant ward scale off max mag or remove nerfs to max health/dmg and make it ignore battlespirit debuff.
-ritual of ret damage does not scare anyone. It also procs defile/wizard reposte set when you don't want it to making it terrible. We should have our purge cost removed drastically, and maybe Ritual grant a hot? idk.
-honor the dead and BoL are not even a guranteed heal for the caster. When you get in a jam in a group your heal becomes a maybe heal.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

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Minno wrote: »

@Drdeath20 im adding to your post!

-Solar barrage is clunky because of cast time.
-Dark flare is a niche skill. Long cast time plus travel time plus its almost always dodged or worse reflected. No mobility means this skill is highly countered.
-Jabs/sweeps/radiant oppression are broken. need to test if abilities are still broken. Radiant Opression is still too expensive for an execute.
-Radiant aura is terrible because it costs mag to provide minor mag steal that ele drain gives for no cost and with 5280 penetration. Radiant aura but offer a combat buff and better sustain in order to compete with ele drain.
-Repentance is a selfish pve skill. It must return stamina regardless of who took the corpse first.
-Unstable core doesnt hit hard enough. The cc immunity, despite a unique idea, further limits this ability's desired intent to be delayed dmg.
- No class root or AOE defense. We need a version of miss chance to be returned or increase defense greatly in other areas to offset healing.
- no class access to majory brutality or major sorcery.
- passives are not competitive to other classes. We used to have a passive that returned 2% mag every time we cast a spell, we used to increase the crit chance of allies with our resto healing. But alot of our passives boost spells that are lackluster and therefore make terrible passives.
-Most the templar passives are buffs to their skills that still make them lack luster. So i have to spend 4 skill points on a skill and it still sucks?!?
-No mobility. Or very least no defensive mechanics to justify being stuck in place.
-No real reason to use any of the templars offensive ultimates. Meteor is cheaper than nova plus it passively boosts your magicka and recovery plus it does instant damage plus it tracks your opponent. Soul assault for single targets.
-There is no passive bonus for slotting most of templar abilities.
-aedric spear morphs should have been swaped.
-i still cannot find a use for healing ritual because of the cast time and same healing output as BoL. This should be a self target HoT or offensive buff without cast time.
-purifying light does not fracture or breach I think it should give minor armor buff honestly. This ability's intent feels more like a healer support than burst spell and magplars could use the defenses/speed.
-javelin is expensive and pushes your opponent away from you.
-i have a tough time seeing how a class skill like shards/holy shards is any better than orbs. A world skill like orbs is on par with a class skill and orbs are ,at times, easier to access.
-gap closer is broken is actually much better than before. We just need more defense outside heals to justify being stuck in a long gap closer animation (need a self target HOT or passive defense)
-is there ever a time when anybody would choose explosive charge over the stun morph you choose explosive charge to always deal damage after you try to cast dark flare/destro heavy attack. Miats removal should help, but I agree it's not an attractive morph when crit rush can snare/always deal a crit.
-no races/sets specifically buff magicka damage, which is majority of templar damage. war maiden buffs magic damage and innate boosts the damage of our class abilities. Fix our abilities/passives, youll see more benefit out of these sets.
-just about every thing is a channel or it has a cast time plus travel time. Which can be great if we had our AOE cc mechanic to justify being stuck in these cast times while taking damage.
-the only real defensive ability is a burst heal. -Every other class has a usuable defensive mechanic which is better than a heal. Once a templar starts to heal they are stuck solely healing till they die.
-templars class shield is another niche skill. Make radiant ward scale off max mag or remove nerfs to max health/dmg and make it ignore battlespirit debuff.
-ritual of ret damage does not scare anyone. It also procs defile/wizard reposte set when you don't want it to making it terrible. We should have our purge cost removed drastically, and maybe Ritual grant a hot? idk.
-honor the dead and BoL are not even a guranteed heal for the caster. When you get in a jam in a group your heal becomes a maybe heal.

All of this boils down to what I call a very clunky class.

I agree. We just need to be specific with our feedback in order to correctly communicate what's wrong with the class.

Thanks!

Bladefyr wrote: »

I've tested various gear setups and CP distributions on my DW magplar over about 30 parses this morning. In my opinion Radiant Oppression is not fixed in the slightest and any damage boost to sweeps barely makes up for the dps loss from the Off-Balance changes.

Long story short: post Dragon Bones patch= 1.5-2.5K dps loss on average. Thanks ZoS.

Agreed.

The Radiant Oppression issue we have been pointing out for months is that the execute additive/multiplicative scaling fix they applied in HOTR didn't get applied to Radiant Destruction and morphs for some reason. But instead of fixing that, they worked on a different issue relevant only to the Oppression morph, which is small compared to the other scaling issue.

And I don't know what on earth they did to Sweeps. The new fix only lets Sweeps scale correctly with some damage done/taken bonuses (like Minor Vulnerability) but not others (like Minor Berserk), and somehow they broke its functionality in CP PVP as a bonus.

Hopefully this gets sorted out in the next incremental patch or two. Otherwise RIP templar for another six months.

Minno wrote: »

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dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

@Drdeath20 im adding to your post!

-Solar barrage is clunky because of cast time.
-Dark flare is a niche skill. Long cast time plus travel time plus its almost always dodged or worse reflected. No mobility means this skill is highly countered.
-Jabs/sweeps/radiant oppression are broken. need to test if abilities are still broken. Radiant Opression is still too expensive for an execute.
-Radiant aura is terrible because it costs mag to provide minor mag steal that ele drain gives for no cost and with 5280 penetration. Radiant aura but offer a combat buff and better sustain in order to compete with ele drain.
-Repentance is a selfish pve skill. It must return stamina regardless of who took the corpse first.
-Unstable core doesnt hit hard enough. The cc immunity, despite a unique idea, further limits this ability's desired intent to be delayed dmg.
- No class root or AOE defense. We need a version of miss chance to be returned or increase defense greatly in other areas to offset healing.
- no class access to majory brutality or major sorcery.
- passives are not competitive to other classes. We used to have a passive that returned 2% mag every time we cast a spell, we used to increase the crit chance of allies with our resto healing. But alot of our passives boost spells that are lackluster and therefore make terrible passives.
-Most the templar passives are buffs to their skills that still make them lack luster. So i have to spend 4 skill points on a skill and it still sucks?!?
-No mobility. Or very least no defensive mechanics to justify being stuck in place.
-No real reason to use any of the templars offensive ultimates. Meteor is cheaper than nova plus it passively boosts your magicka and recovery plus it does instant damage plus it tracks your opponent. Soul assault for single targets.
-There is no passive bonus for slotting most of templar abilities.
-aedric spear morphs should have been swaped.
-i still cannot find a use for healing ritual because of the cast time and same healing output as BoL. This should be a self target HoT or offensive buff without cast time.
-purifying light does not fracture or breach I think it should give minor armor buff honestly. This ability's intent feels more like a healer support than burst spell and magplars could use the defenses/speed.
-javelin is expensive and pushes your opponent away from you.
-i have a tough time seeing how a class skill like shards/holy shards is any better than orbs. A world skill like orbs is on par with a class skill and orbs are ,at times, easier to access.
-gap closer is broken is actually much better than before. We just need more defense outside heals to justify being stuck in a long gap closer animation (need a self target HOT or passive defense)
-is there ever a time when anybody would choose explosive charge over the stun morph you choose explosive charge to always deal damage after you try to cast dark flare/destro heavy attack. Miats removal should help, but I agree it's not an attractive morph when crit rush can snare/always deal a crit.
-no races/sets specifically buff magicka damage, which is majority of templar damage. war maiden buffs magic damage and innate boosts the damage of our class abilities. Fix our abilities/passives, youll see more benefit out of these sets.
-just about every thing is a channel or it has a cast time plus travel time. Which can be great if we had our AOE cc mechanic to justify being stuck in these cast times while taking damage.
-the only real defensive ability is a burst heal. -Every other class has a usuable defensive mechanic which is better than a heal. Once a templar starts to heal they are stuck solely healing till they die.
-templars class shield is another niche skill. Make radiant ward scale off max mag or remove nerfs to max health/dmg and make it ignore battlespirit debuff.
-ritual of ret damage does not scare anyone. It also procs defile/wizard reposte set when you don't want it to making it terrible. We should have our purge cost removed drastically, and maybe Ritual grant a hot? idk.
-honor the dead and BoL are not even a guranteed heal for the caster. When you get in a jam in a group your heal becomes a maybe heal.

All of this boils down to what I call a very clunky class.

I agree. We just need to be specific with our feedback in order to correctly communicate what's wrong with the class.

Thanks!

Being specific and correctly communicating has been going on for over a year... theydont seem to care

At this point I’d only come back if they decided to give templars a class change token and get rid of the class all together

There is nothing unique about it and for the most part youre going outside of the class skills to be effective ...