Bye Warden

Grevaris_Elluin · January 2018

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

TO ALL MAGDENS:

If birds are so bad vs pulse, why would you want to change the delay. Wouldn't it just be a worse copy of pulse? Both unreflectable, both dodgable, but one provides the added effects of destro.

Why do wardens run both. I'll give you a hint. Delayed burst.

They ran both because it's literally the only way to fill your bar

Edit: that burst combo was good against pros for about the first two weeks, after that only potatoes die to it

I'm guessing you mean passives. But surely something else can fit the bill. And I am pretty sure that is same with all burst combos. ProvPro is decided by who makes the mistake first. My burst on sorcs can be avoided, same on my DK, same on warden, same on NB. It shouldn't require mechanic skipping abilities to work. Which is why I am all for powerlash being dodgable, for example.

You talk a lot about magWarden. What's the character name of yours on PC EU. You seem to be an expert on the class, so you might can give mine some tips, great master of wisdom?

I don't play one, not going to pretend to, but I have played long enough to know that delayed burst is good, take sorc, and hard counters are for nubs who can't time or outplay. Seeing you in BGs with your premade and your tanky bird spam really tells me a lot

Look, thats what I thought - "tanky birdspam" without me having ever birds slotted... I think you are not in the position to comment on the class since your input seems to be based more on vague assumptions than actual observation or first-hand experience.

Not really played proper since new year, but I have 100% been birded by you before.

And if you don't slot it. Then why complain. If you are one of the wardens who slots it only for passives, because pulse is oh so better, then why complain?

Shalk is fine, trees are fine, dot is fine. Hell even the Defile can be dealt with. But bird is unreasonable as it was, and still provides a good burst setup. It's not like I have no exp of the class. I played it in early morrow, but due to lack of slots and having to have mag/stam of each class at diff race I rerolled an sdk.

Oh dear, there it goes. I never used birds in BGs, never. I never complained about birds being dodgable, please quote me on my complaint if you accuse me of doing.

However, I do think you have no idea what you are talking about. I do think you have no place here giving balancing comments on a class you don't seem to 1) understand and 2) play. To be honest judging by your performnce on your main class (magDK?) I'd even doubt you posess any knowledge on that one.

So why the hell do you keep talking about stuff you don't understand?

You are in a thread about birds being dodgable, I am saying that it isn't going to kill the class, so my dearest, sincerest apologies if I got the wrong idea from your salt. What you seem to say backs me up on that too. So either you are a troll, or a paranoid schizophrenic who feels attacked?

Now, I don't like to dickwave. Oh, wait. Yes I do. But hiding with your premade groups as/with healbots is a rather easy position. I've got to the point that I ditch the objective altogether if the group is premade. And, if not... (This is with a pug)

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

What the hell happened to this thread?

I'm just gonna post more birds. But only dodgeable ones.

Sixty5 · January 2018

I'd say warden is far from dead.

Sub still exists, as does their obnoxious mix of defensive skills and buffs.

The change just means that it is possible to run away from them now.

Leandor · January 2018

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

What the hell happened to this thread?

I'm just gonna post more birds. But only dodgeable ones.

Isn't what happened here standard procedure in these forums?

VoiDGhOs7 · January 2018

Grevaris_Elluin · January 2018

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

What the hell happened to this thread?

I'm just gonna post more birds. But only dodgeable ones.

No one has dodged America since Vietnam.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I know who you are. A decent BG player, certainly not top level though. Not even on his main. You can worship your screenshot all day long, if it makes you feel better and accuse my 70% solo Q behind of hiding behing someone else (which is rather funny for anyone who knows how much I love being solo). Do it all day long, I don't care.

I do care however, if you come to threads with nothing but hearsay and uneducated opinions. This game and its forums has had enough of tqht kind of bad advice and the resulting pitchfork balancing by ZOS. You lack understanding and knowledge, yet you insist to comment and give "advice" to others.

Top level, how can there even be a top level in 3 way random BGs, it's not a duel scene or alliance war. Leaderboards? I have topped 2/3 of them before, just sweat/nolife it. BG drama aside.

Tell me where I am going wrong oh great lord, so that I may spread your holy message across the forums, but with a less whiny tone than yours.

Am I wrong about the group support, or the burst combo, or the tankiness, the healing, or the damage? I would love to know. And will admit if I am wrong.

RinaldoGandolphi · January 2018

What a silly change.

Funny how Magicka keeps getting nerfed and stamina is left untouched. Soul Assault, a channeled ability that locks you out of using other skills is nerfed while Dawnbreaker of Smiting that is OP AF is left untouched....Dawnbreaker is so OP that half of the Mag Builds in Cyrodiil are using a stamina based ultimate its so good...now we gotta nerf those Birds and kill Magden while Stamden is against left untouched in its OP state....yup

nothing to see here, carry on...

MLGProPlayer · January 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

with dive being nerfed atleast now warden can be buffed for pve without pvpers crying op

This better be a precursor to PvE buffs.

Grevaris_Elluin · January 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

What a silly change.

Funny how Magicka keeps getting nerfed and stamina is left untouched. Soul Assault, a channeled ability that locks you out of using other skills is nerfed while Dawnbreaker of Smiting that is OP AF is left untouched....Dawnbreaker is so OP that half of the Mag Builds in Cyrodiil are using a stamina based ultimate its so good...now we gotta nerf those Birds and kill Magden while Stamden is against left untouched in its OP state....yup

nothing to see here, carry on...

They use dbos because their own ults suck. Whereas soul assault sucked, but shone if xv1 playing.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I mean, I’m hitting 9k bird every day on people and their only counter is to hold block so my unblockable fissure gets into range to nuke them anyway

Curious about what you're running. Just got my warden leveled the other day and I've been looking at a bunch of different builds.

BohnT · January 2018

Leaving a Tactical dot to come back when I need more salt

MLGProPlayer · January 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Never should have been a skill which can't be dodged to start with.

Now I just hope that CH2 class balance will buff them up and bring them on par with others.

That's why some players are "upset" over the change because we don't see ZOS reworking/buffing Wardens to make them anymore viable than they already are(n't). I just made mine a tank/healer so I'm okay.

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for ZOS to rework Warden's abilities to line them up with the other classes.

Tell me how the undodgeable part made Wardens better for PvE.

I didn't say it made them better, lol. I was just replying to the other player who said they hoped ZOS would buff/rework them to which I said that I am not holding my breath for any buffs or reworks.

Ah, then I get that wrong. Indeed, they need a little help for pve dps. Personally, I had lower the impact dmg from birds and added a DoT to (over-?)compensate for that. But who am I to decide that kind of things.

They need a lot of help when it comes to PvE DPS.

BohnT · January 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Never should have been a skill which can't be dodged to start with.

Now I just hope that CH2 class balance will buff them up and bring them on par with others.

That's why some players are "upset" over the change because we don't see ZOS reworking/buffing Wardens to make them anymore viable than they already are(n't). I just made mine a tank/healer so I'm okay.

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for ZOS to rework Warden's abilities to line them up with the other classes.

Tell me how the undodgeable part made Wardens better for PvE.

I didn't say it made them better, lol. I was just replying to the other player who said they hoped ZOS would buff/rework them to which I said that I am not holding my breath for any buffs or reworks.

Ah, then I get that wrong. Indeed, they need a little help for pve dps. Personally, I had lower the impact dmg from birds and added a DoT to (over-?)compensate for that. But who am I to decide that kind of things.

They need a lot of help when it comes to PvE DPS.

And this will either result in even greater dominance in PvP or they have to completely rebuild the class.
Right now warden is decent or good in every regard if they further increase something they have to balance it with nerfs in other regards

OtarTheMad · January 2018

You just have to get creative with your Wardens if you are dedicated to it. It's easier said than done and requires some out of the box thinking but I would suggest going on some lists of what sets drop in Overland, Dungeons, PvP, BG etc. and see if there is one that stands out and could help your Warden and playstyle. If not then just make a stamblade or any stamina character and wait for Wardens to be reworked... or another class/skill line to be introduced.

MLGProPlayer · January 2018

BohnT wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Never should have been a skill which can't be dodged to start with.

Now I just hope that CH2 class balance will buff them up and bring them on par with others.

That's why some players are "upset" over the change because we don't see ZOS reworking/buffing Wardens to make them anymore viable than they already are(n't). I just made mine a tank/healer so I'm okay.

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for ZOS to rework Warden's abilities to line them up with the other classes.

Tell me how the undodgeable part made Wardens better for PvE.

I didn't say it made them better, lol. I was just replying to the other player who said they hoped ZOS would buff/rework them to which I said that I am not holding my breath for any buffs or reworks.

Ah, then I get that wrong. Indeed, they need a little help for pve dps. Personally, I had lower the impact dmg from birds and added a DoT to (over-?)compensate for that. But who am I to decide that kind of things.

They need a lot of help when it comes to PvE DPS.

And this will either result in even greater dominance in PvP or they have to completely rebuild the class.
Right now warden is decent or good in every regard if they further increase something they have to balance it with nerfs in other regards

They just nerfed birds, which was the only skill that made them OP in PvP.

And they are not "decent" as DD in PvE, unless you consider 5k+ DPS behind every other magicka class decent.

They're the most underrepresented class in PvE end game for a reason.

RinaldoGandolphi · January 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

What a silly change.

Funny how Magicka keeps getting nerfed and stamina is left untouched. Soul Assault, a channeled ability that locks you out of using other skills is nerfed while Dawnbreaker of Smiting that is OP AF is left untouched....Dawnbreaker is so OP that half of the Mag Builds in Cyrodiil are using a stamina based ultimate its so good...now we gotta nerf those Birds and kill Magden while Stamden is against left untouched in its OP state....yup

nothing to see here, carry on...

They use dbos because their own ults suck. Whereas soul assault sucked, but shone if xv1 playing.

It still doesn't change the fact that Dawnbreaker of Smithing is OP AF...which is why its everywhere in pvp.

BohnT · January 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Never should have been a skill which can't be dodged to start with.

Now I just hope that CH2 class balance will buff them up and bring them on par with others.

That's why some players are "upset" over the change because we don't see ZOS reworking/buffing Wardens to make them anymore viable than they already are(n't). I just made mine a tank/healer so I'm okay.

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for ZOS to rework Warden's abilities to line them up with the other classes.

Tell me how the undodgeable part made Wardens better for PvE.

I didn't say it made them better, lol. I was just replying to the other player who said they hoped ZOS would buff/rework them to which I said that I am not holding my breath for any buffs or reworks.

Ah, then I get that wrong. Indeed, they need a little help for pve dps. Personally, I had lower the impact dmg from birds and added a DoT to (over-?)compensate for that. But who am I to decide that kind of things.

They need a lot of help when it comes to PvE DPS.

And this will either result in even greater dominance in PvP or they have to completely rebuild the class.
Right now warden is decent or good in every regard if they further increase something they have to balance it with nerfs in other regards

Yhey just nerfed birds, which was the only skill that made them OP in PvP.

And they are not "decent" as DD in PvE, unless you consider 5k+ DPS behind every other magicka class decent.

They are decent for everything in pvp, should have added that.
shimmering shield, shalks, trees, best major mending uptime, great sustain, each and all buffs, passive snare reduction, great group utility
yes they are at least decent

SodanTok · January 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

What a silly change.

Funny how Magicka keeps getting nerfed and stamina is left untouched. Soul Assault, a channeled ability that locks you out of using other skills is nerfed while Dawnbreaker of Smiting that is OP AF is left untouched....Dawnbreaker is so OP that half of the Mag Builds in Cyrodiil are using a stamina based ultimate its so good...now we gotta nerf those Birds and kill Magden while Stamden is against left untouched in its OP state....yup

nothing to see here, carry on...

They use dbos because their own ults suck. Whereas soul assault sucked, but shone if xv1 playing.

It still doesn't change the fact that Dawnbreaker of Smithing is OP AF...which is why its everywhere in pvp.

Thats not why. If it was OP DK and NB would be using it too. All other single target/small scale ultimates are simply too bad to be used.

FlamingBeard · January 2018

Zer0oo wrote: »

Funny to see players who were so strongly in favor of undodgeable mag dk skills are now so strong in favor of dodgeable warden skills.

But i really would like to see a speed up of the birds so they do not take ages to hit even if it means that the burst combo goes down by a little.

Lol you can spam Warden’s Dive from a pretty good distance in PvP.

You have to be in melee range to use Dragonknight’s Power Lash AND it has a proc condition of you being Off-Balance.

You are being obtuse.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

No one has dodged America since Vietnam.

Look up foreign tax shelters.

Mureel · January 2018

KingExecration wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Yeah, mine is gona be a buffbot in a zerg now.

Magplar2.0
But on a side note Templars are non existent in pvp unless they're healers, I'll play for hours and the temps I run into are buddies or some guy spamming ice clench and healing ult/nova. Rant for another day though lol.

What else do you expect? They're utterly ruined the whole class.

Lexxypwns · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I mean, I’m hitting 9k bird every day on people and their only counter is to hold block so my unblockable fissure gets into range to nuke them anyway

Come on, I know what you're running and that's definitely not typical

Edit: I mean the set up is not typical, not the damage

Build guide coming tomorrow!

Edit: Remember, you can’t dodge fletcher or fissure and fissure has a CC attached

PhoenixGrey · January 2018

Garbage change. Real issues were with shimerring shield and sub assault.

Looks like it's time to make a stam version of my warden

SydneyGrey · January 2018

I have a mag warden healer for PvP. She's great for heals, but weak on 1v1 DPS. Now she'll be even weaker. (Not complaining. She wasn't meant to be DPS anyway.)

BUT at least I won't have to see the constant "nerf birds" threads every week now, so yay for that. Plus, it won't affect wardens in PvE, which is a good move.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I have a mag warden healer for PvP. She's great for heals, but weak on 1v1 DPS. Now she'll be even weaker. (Not complaining. She wasn't meant to be DPS anyway.)

BUT at least I won't have to see the constant "nerf birds" threads every week now, so yay for that. Plus, it won't affect wardens in PvE, which is a good move.

Of all the things they could have nerfed on warden, this was the most sensible. Usually Zenimax would just decrease the damage by 5% or something. That's a standard ZOS fix and the dude that can spam 10k undodgable birds now can spam 9.5k undodgable birds. This fix increased counters to the game without hurting damage. It was a decent change. I really don't know what everyone is arguing about in this thread. Just seems like a lot of noise.

Edziu · January 2018

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I have a mag warden healer for PvP. She's great for heals, but weak on 1v1 DPS. Now she'll be even weaker. (Not complaining. She wasn't meant to be DPS anyway.)

BUT at least I won't have to see the constant "nerf birds" threads every week now, so yay for that. Plus, it won't affect wardens in PvE, which is a good move.

I dont see any argument about that change to this
that same same problemw ith templar...(HEALBOTS)....who just spammed healing et cin zerg and ofc spammed jesus beam from behind zerg even at 100% helth on enemy an this was just really unfair and nonsense, healbot who can deal decen damage with undodgable skill at long range behind zerg

here we was again but now with warden could didnt care his own survive but to buff, heal zerg and ofc spam single skill behind zerg which has no any counter in zerg situations

Lexxypwns · January 2018

Guys, it hits too hard to be undodgeable.

Abysswarrior45 · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Game needs counterplay. Block being the only counter to a skill is only reliable for zerglings and tanks. Try playing as medium stamplar or medium dk or medium stam sorc against a good magden with a fat magic pool and fat shields. Try eating through stalks with that weird unpredictable hitbox into bird spams and a soul assault that deals 18k damage THROUGH block. The class was over-performing and so is stamden. No class should have access to the amount of major and minor buffs both magden and stamden do. Now they need to fix this tank meta.

That's a soul assault problem, not a magden problem.

You can Backlash + SA
Or
Curse + SA

For just as effective combos, cuz SA

You failed to address the points about the class having access to far too many major/minor buffs. Also magden has crazy burst potential and absurd survivability because of the magic pool its able to get. Soul assault synergies really well with the shalk bird spam combo. So it is a class issue.

Abysswarrior45 · January 2018

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Game needs counterplay. Block being the only counter to a skill is only reliable for zerglings and tanks. Try playing as medium stamplar or medium dk or medium stam sorc against a good magden with a fat magic pool and fat shields. Try eating through stalks with that weird unpredictable hitbox into bird spams and a soul assault that deals 18k damage THROUGH block. The class was over-performing and so is stamden. No class should have access to the amount of major and minor buffs both magden and stamden do. Now they need to fix this tank meta.

Actually many classes have a wide array of major and minor buffs and some of them apply in much more efficient ways. Some classes are less efficient in this regard and I believe this is the greater source of concern. Warden does have a broad toolkit but its efficiency in this regard (of what can actually be fired off reasonably) is not as high as some other abilities. Consider for instance the efficiency of a skill like Ritual vs. Betty Netch. Netch is cheaper but in terms of opportunity cost its actually weaker and does fewer things. Ritual on the other hand is fire and forget for the most part. I'm not saying there might be some wiggle room here but if there is wiggle I'd suggest diversity should be offered the classes that need it. Warden is all about piling things up and timing. Sorcerer is like this as well but far more adaptive. I think its pretty telling that very few people seem to notice this fact.

The one truth about Warden is that it is a tanky/healing class. I personally think my Magplar has better burst than my MagDen, and I'm not entirely convinced that the MagDen is more tanky although that might very well be. The mobility certainly helps but that is a commonly known problem of the Templar to begin with that and its herky jerky flashy style.

I must suggest giving this magden a watch to see what I'm talking about when I say its both extremely tanky with really good resource management and stupid burst potential. He's a good player, but wardens are definitely a little broken. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy7KWE9Gv_7cZucSML0e5qw

Zinaroth · January 2018

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Warden was/is conceptually broken. I don´t think undodgeable spammable should have been ever been a thing to begin with.
Now they can begin adressing the classes shortcomings.

3 months and a shimmering nerf later, magWardens will be bottom tier

As a Stamplar I welcome you to the bottom tier. Been dwelling here since launch. The benefit of being bottom tier is that you can use it as an excuse every time you die. The annoying part is that noone will aknowledge it.