Maintenance for the week of April 27:
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – April 27, 2:00 UTC (April 26, 10:00PM EDT) - April 27, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – April 27, 3:00AM EDT (7:00 UTC) - 5:00PM EDT (21:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – April 27, 2:00 UTC (April 26, 10:00PM EDT) - April 27, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – April 27, 3:00AM EDT (7:00 UTC) - 5:00PM EDT (21:00 UTC)
Bye Warden
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Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came in top.
It wasn't the mag version that came out on top though
Mageblade is better, mDK is similar but weaker, magplar is weaker, mag sorc is weaker.
Of the stam specs only stam warden and stamblade are significantly better with stamplar being about equalEdited by Lexxypwns on January 30, 2018 10:32PM0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came on top.
I already hinted at people said they were op in my original post, that was before they went live though. How long it took people to catch up is pertinent in terms of said people calling them bad then shelving their Warden. I didn’t forget proc meta but even during that time stam Warden still had the best kit to compliment procs other than stam nb. I wouldn’t say class balance was irrelevant because there was clear winners during that time. What was irrelevant was most gear choices because people ran 2-3 proc sets. Although gear meta has always been around, so the two really don’t correlate. It’s more so people already had the impression the class was bad until other people came along with builds for them.
Hence why October you see the shalk thread, November you see does stam wardens need a nerf; then in December threads saying wardens everywhere and both stam & mag are op.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came in top.
It wasn't the mag version that came out on top though
Its prety close. The only thing that hinders their performance is snares which is a major issue for every magicka spec. But even in that case, they are probably the best magicka class to use forward momentum without major drawbacks. Anw thats not even the point. There is absolutely no reason for birds to be undodgeable. Its the hardest hitting spammable in the game. They hit way too hard.0 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came in top.
It wasn't the mag version that came out on top though
Mageblade is better, mDK is similar but weaker, magplar is weaker, mag sorc is weaker.
Just curious, but is this in regards to open world or dueling?0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came on top.
I already hinted at people said they were op in my original post, that was before they went live though. How long it took people to catch up is pertinent in terms of said people calling them bad then shelving their Warden. I didn’t forget proc meta but even during that time stam Warden still had the best kit to compliment procs other than stam nb. I wouldn’t say class balance was irrelevant because there was clear winners during that time. What was irrelevant was most gear choices because people ran 2-3 proc sets. Although gear meta has always been around, so the two really don’t correlate. It’s more so people already had the impression the class was bad until other people came along with builds for them.
Hence why October you see the shalk thread, November you see does stam wardens need a nerf; then in December threads saying wardens everywhere and both stam & mag are op.
And again what does any of this have to do with warden performance. And more specifically how is this a reason for the hardest hitting spammable in the game to be undodgeable?0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came on top.
I already hinted at people said they were op in my original post, that was before they went live though. How long it took people to catch up is pertinent in terms of said people calling them bad then shelving their Warden. I didn’t forget proc meta but even during that time stam Warden still had the best kit to compliment procs other than stam nb. I wouldn’t say class balance was irrelevant because there was clear winners during that time. What was irrelevant was most gear choices because people ran 2-3 proc sets. Although gear meta has always been around, so the two really don’t correlate. It’s more so people already had the impression the class was bad until other people came along with builds for them.
Hence why October you see the shalk thread, November you see does stam wardens need a nerf; then in December threads saying wardens everywhere and both stam & mag are op.
And again what does any of this have to do with warden performance. And more specifically how is this a reason for the hardest hitting spammable in the game to be undodgeable?
Nvm bruh, you’re just one of those people.
1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came on top.
I already hinted at people said they were op in my original post, that was before they went live though. How long it took people to catch up is pertinent in terms of said people calling them bad then shelving their Warden. I didn’t forget proc meta but even during that time stam Warden still had the best kit to compliment procs other than stam nb. I wouldn’t say class balance was irrelevant because there was clear winners during that time. What was irrelevant was most gear choices because people ran 2-3 proc sets. Although gear meta has always been around, so the two really don’t correlate. It’s more so people already had the impression the class was bad until other people came along with builds for them.
Hence why October you see the shalk thread, November you see does stam wardens need a nerf; then in December threads saying wardens everywhere and both stam & mag are op.
And again what does any of this have to do with warden performance. And more specifically how is this a reason for the hardest hitting spammable in the game to be undodgeable?
Nvm bruh, you’re just one of those people.
It was a legitimate question in a topic about warden performance and more specifically about birds. It was a topic i brought up in my first reply to your comment which you never addressed and instead you were just talking about history.
But "i am one of those people"0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came in top.
It wasn't the mag version that came out on top though
Mageblade is better, mDK is similar but weaker, magplar is weaker, mag sorc is weaker.
Just curious, but is this in regards to open world or dueling?
Open world. But it’s also true for duels except mag warden arguably outperforms mDK and stamblade there because the bear is ridiculously OP in a controlled 1v1 and breaks cloak1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Is Warden really so bad in PvE? I don’t know. Saw this clip posted on the forum before. A 52k parse on Rakkhat doesn’t seem so bad. Unless it was cheesed (and yes, this is with constant Major Force through Guard).
https://youtu.be/KjAwdVUxIL8
1. She's a top player
2. She has optimal gear
3. She's using a single-target ultimate
Bear is a no-no in 99% of trial runs because the entire point of bringing magicka DD into a trial is for AOE damage (stamina does single target much better).
The bear also tanks your DPS in boss fights with lots of AOE. This is because the AOE can 1-shot the bear, which automatically procs the re-summon animation and interrupts anything you were doing. The re-summon animation lasts about 1.5 seconds and cannot be cancelled. And this happens every few seconds as the bear dies over and over again (i.e. final boss in Falkreath).
She also has optimal gear (i.e. perfected asylum staff) which 99% of players won't have. Other magicka classes can easily hit these DPS numbers (and more) with just Julianos + Willpower. That's the main problem with magicka warden. To get respectable numbers, you need a perfect build, which is not a realistic expectation for the vast majority of players.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 31, 2018 1:40AM2 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Guys, it hits too hard to be undodgeable.
Yes, that is true. The way they "adjusted" the problem is bad nonetheless.
The change should have been that stam morph is dodgeable but retains the damage increase from range. Magicka morph should still be undodgeable, but get reduced damage by 10%, maybe 15%.
That way you retained the hard counter to dodge builds while nerfing stam wardens (which would be what is needed).
If then shimmering shield got a slight magicka cost increase so stamdens lose a bit of their ranged immunity and magdens have increased opportunity cost, the combination would have had:
- an effect on the stamden issue
- a tolerable effect on magdens
- retaining unique playstyles for both classes.
But no, they did nothing against stamdens and removed feasibility of magdens. Why play a magden now that every other class can do a better job, except for buffing a ball group?
You do not address overperforming/underperforming abilities by making them entirely ignore defensive mechanics. Hard counters are bad. Period. And birds are anything but underperfoming even when they are dodgeable. Its the hardest hitting spammable in the game.
Seriously what is up with everyone asking for hard counters against everything. Is it really so bad to have to think and work to get a kill? Why does everyone need to have the mentality of "i cant fight this guy so give me something to abuse him"?
Birds were a hard counter to one defensive ability. Shields and block rendered birds uneffective.
Together with the other changes to abilities going through dodge, dodge now has very very few counters, making dodge the problem instead of birds.
If you read what I wrote, I actually proposed a layered action on birds, adjusting the ability to make it fit into the game.
Your reply didn't address anything of what I have put up for consideration. So... thanks for making me waste time on you, I guess...
And in regards to "hardest hitting spammable": haha? Dizzying, surprise attack, jabs, strife, dark flare, all of them are similar or surpassing birds. Taking a very specific build optimized for birds as a reference point is.... bad?
Birds being dodgeable and all of a sudden people are scared of the WORST armor archetype by far in ESO. If someone beats you in medium they are just better then you.
Medium builds main form of defense and pretty much the only effective one was completely shutdown by one chump spamming one button over and over again.. the nerf was needed.
And dodge roll isn't a one button chump spam?
Biased much?
On console its not still easy to spam but a builds main form of defense isnt completely negated by one chump spamming X.0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came on top.
I already hinted at people said they were op in my original post, that was before they went live though. How long it took people to catch up is pertinent in terms of said people calling them bad then shelving their Warden. I didn’t forget proc meta but even during that time stam Warden still had the best kit to compliment procs other than stam nb. I wouldn’t say class balance was irrelevant because there was clear winners during that time. What was irrelevant was most gear choices because people ran 2-3 proc sets. Although gear meta has always been around, so the two really don’t correlate. It’s more so people already had the impression the class was bad until other people came along with builds for them.
Hence why October you see the shalk thread, November you see does stam wardens need a nerf; then in December threads saying wardens everywhere and both stam & mag are op.
And again what does any of this have to do with warden performance. And more specifically how is this a reason for the hardest hitting spammable in the game to be undodgeable?
Nvm bruh, you’re just one of those people.
It was a legitimate question in a topic about warden performance and more specifically about birds. It was a topic i brought up in my first reply to your comment which you never addressed and instead you were just talking about history.
But "i am one of those people"
Yes you’re one of those people because you’re reaching for points that’s not there rather than reading the post for what it is. My post had nothing to do with birds, I didn’t even mention birds. The OP isn’t about balancing the game around the 1 percent so that should tell you I’m responding to something else. Context clues.
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OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My question is, after all of this observation on this thread, is why do peoples opinion of Wardens so widely vary? LoL. Someone correct me if I am wrong but Wardens in PvP (including BGs) are good and even after this change will still be good but in PvE they are non-existent.
I play Warden and I am perfectly fine with the change as long as they find ways to tweak Warden abilities so that they are viable in PvE without making them Gods in PvP.2 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came in top.
It wasn't the mag version that came out on top though
Mageblade is better, mDK is similar but weaker, magplar is weaker, mag sorc is weaker.
Just curious, but is this in regards to open world or dueling?
Open world. But it’s also true for duels except mag warden arguably outperforms mDK and stamblade there because the bear is ridiculously OP in a controlled 1v1 and breaks cloak
So you're saying mageblade is the top magic class. Interesting statement.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came in top.
It wasn't the mag version that came out on top though
Mageblade is better, mDK is similar but weaker, magplar is weaker, mag sorc is weaker.
Just curious, but is this in regards to open world or dueling?
Open world. But it’s also true for duels except mag warden arguably outperforms mDK and stamblade there because the bear is ridiculously OP in a controlled 1v1 and breaks cloak
So you're saying mageblade is the top magic class. Interesting statement.
Probably is. Buggy, but strong in both duels/ow solo and grouped.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Anethum✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »You now suck for Pve and PvP
Cool
Edit: I should say magicka, the dive change does absolutely nothing to the darn near OP Stam version
Early "cool". Its good that now this skill dodgable for medium users, but...
Only worst wardens, zergers use dive in pvp... problem is in how many major buffs and much burst have warden in general...And my opinion - almost nothing changed...only 1 class who can burst heal, be in heavy and not hurt by snares, one of the biggest burst potential and buffed in almost every aspect.Edited by Anethum on January 31, 2018 5:26AM@Anethum from .ua2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came on top.
I already hinted at people said they were op in my original post, that was before they went live though. How long it took people to catch up is pertinent in terms of said people calling them bad then shelving their Warden. I didn’t forget proc meta but even during that time stam Warden still had the best kit to compliment procs other than stam nb. I wouldn’t say class balance was irrelevant because there was clear winners during that time. What was irrelevant was most gear choices because people ran 2-3 proc sets. Although gear meta has always been around, so the two really don’t correlate. It’s more so people already had the impression the class was bad until other people came along with builds for them.
Hence why October you see the shalk thread, November you see does stam wardens need a nerf; then in December threads saying wardens everywhere and both stam & mag are op.
And again what does any of this have to do with warden performance. And more specifically how is this a reason for the hardest hitting spammable in the game to be undodgeable?
Nvm bruh, you’re just one of those people.
It was a legitimate question in a topic about warden performance and more specifically about birds. It was a topic i brought up in my first reply to your comment which you never addressed and instead you were just talking about history.
But "i am one of those people"
Yes you’re one of those people because you’re reaching for points that’s not there rather than reading the post for what it is. My post had nothing to do with birds, I didn’t even mention birds. The OP isn’t about balancing the game around the 1 percent so that should tell you I’m responding to something else. Context clues.
Then i apologize, i just got carried away with everyone overreacting about how bad wardens are, now that the hardest hitting spammable in the game is dodgeable and is finally in line with every other ability.1 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »And why am I upset?
Not because it's dodgeable alone, the fact that they did absolutely nothing to help in PvE nor compensate for the change.
It's just plain worse - not different, just worse.
Could they have tweaked an artic wind morph?
Added an effect?
Reduced ability costs?
Of course, but no, ah hell no
But I suppose I should be happy that mSorc is no longer the worst PvP class
When was this golden time when magsorc was on the bottom? Please tell me, if you think it's right now sorry, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar want to have a talk with you
Nothzing that's stamina can be bottom purely because of available sets that are OP
The opness of those sets isn't enough to push those classes above magsorc performance.
What? Lol stamplar is by far top dog right now.
In what universe?
You must not be on console.
I am in fact not on console - I am on PC.
I have been playing Stamplar since launch.
If Stamplar is the top dog right now tell me this:
How come I see more stamblades, stamwardens and stamsorcs around - not to mention magsorcs, magplars and magdks?
Surely if Stamplar was the top dog everyone would have gravitated towards those just like they did with magdk pre 1.6, magsorcs and stamblades in 1.6 - One Tamriel and Stamwardens pre-Morrowind?
How come when I go to dueling sites I see at top 1-2 other Templars which are both magicka (besides me) while the other classes easily have over 10 of each representing?
How come there are no big streamers that main a Stamplar? But instead play Sorcs, NBs, DKs and Stamwardens?
Stamplar is a bottom feeder spec and has been since launch. It's getting better and better - but not because Stamplars are getting their issues adressed, but because other classes are getting minor adjustments patch by patch to bring them down and because monster sets and other item sets are making the difference in classes so miniscule by now.
You made the claim so the burden of evidence is on you.
Go ahead and bring a real argument as to why Stamplars are "top dogs" right now - I expect a full comparison with other classes including statistical values and analysis.
I did these a year back. They were delivered right to Wrobel's desk (because he asked for feedback from me and a few other Stamplar players) and nothing was done.
But please, correct me, I implore you.Edited by Zinaroth on January 31, 2018 9:47AM1 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Is Warden really so bad in PvE? I don’t know. Saw this clip posted on the forum before. A 52k parse on Rakkhat doesn’t seem so bad. Unless it was cheesed (and yes, this is with constant Major Force through Guard).https://youtu.be/KjAwdVUxIL8
1. She's a top player
2. She has optimal gear
3. She's using a single-target ultimate
Bear is a no-no in 99% of trial runs because the entire point of bringing magicka DD into a trial is for AOE damage (stamina does single target much better).
The bear also tanks your DPS in boss fights with lots of AOE. This is because the AOE can 1-shot the bear, which automatically procs the re-summon animation and interrupts anything you were doing. The re-summon animation lasts about 1.5 seconds and cannot be cancelled. And this happens every few seconds as the bear dies over and over again (i.e. final boss in Falkreath).
She also has optimal gear (i.e. perfected asylum staff) which 99% of players won't have. Other magicka classes can easily hit these DPS numbers (and more) with just Julianos + Willpower. That's the main problem with magicka warden. To get respectable numbers, you need a perfect build, which is not a realistic expectation for the vast majority of players.
Bit of a nonsensical argument. Clearly a top player with optimal gear can pull great DPS on a magicka warden, just like on any other spec.
Doesnt that say enough? Youre trying to paint a picture of magicka wardens being completely unable to pull decent DPS which is simply not true. Maybe he/she would pull a bit more on a magblade or mag sorc, but so what? These kinds of subtleties can change from patch to patch.
Guilds that go for scores will just take whatever spec can pull the absolute highest amount of DPS and still survive the mechanics in whatever trial theyre trying to get a score in. That will never change.Edited by Valencer on January 31, 2018 10:18AM1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Is Warden really so bad in PvE? I don’t know. Saw this clip posted on the forum before. A 52k parse on Rakkhat doesn’t seem so bad. Unless it was cheesed (and yes, this is with constant Major Force through Guard).https://youtu.be/KjAwdVUxIL8
1. She's a top player
2. She has optimal gear
3. She's using a single-target ultimate
Bear is a no-no in 99% of trial runs because the entire point of bringing magicka DD into a trial is for AOE damage (stamina does single target much better).
The bear also tanks your DPS in boss fights with lots of AOE. This is because the AOE can 1-shot the bear, which automatically procs the re-summon animation and interrupts anything you were doing. The re-summon animation lasts about 1.5 seconds and cannot be cancelled. And this happens every few seconds as the bear dies over and over again (i.e. final boss in Falkreath).
She also has optimal gear (i.e. perfected asylum staff) which 99% of players won't have. Other magicka classes can easily hit these DPS numbers (and more) with just Julianos + Willpower. That's the main problem with magicka warden. To get respectable numbers, you need a perfect build, which is not a realistic expectation for the vast majority of players.
Bit of a nonsensical argument. Clearly a top player with optimal gear can pull great DPS on a magicka warden, just like on any other spec.
Doesnt that say enough? Youre trying to paint a picture of magicka wardens being completely unable to pull decent DPS which is simply not true. Maybe he/she would pull a bit more on a magblade or mag sorc, but so what? These kinds of subtleties can change from patch to patch.
Guilds that go for scores will just take whatever spec can pull the absolute highest amount of DPS and still survive the mechanics in whatever trial theyre trying to get a score in. That will never change.
It's not a nonsensical argument.
Bear ultimate is useless in most end game content, which automatically shaves off a huge chunk of your DPS when you swap it out.
Lower end players also have a harder time getting respectable DPS with a warden than any other class. Someone who doesn't have perfected asylum staff and 5-pc Master Architect is going to have a very hard time hitting 35k in a DPS test (especially if they can't use bear ult). On the other hand, someone with a sorc or NB (or even a templar/DK before the recent bugs/nerfs) could do it with Julianos + Willpower and a sloppy rotation.
Wardens are a good 5k behind the other magicka classes in terms of DPS, and that gap only gets bigger the lower you go down the gear/skill spectrum. There are literally zero wardens on most trial leader boards, and there are also very few wardens in progression groups because they are so difficult to hit even minimum benchmarks with. They suck at every level of play.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 31, 2018 10:36AM1 -
LioraValkyrie✭✭✭✭If memory serves correctly, the cliff racers were made un-dodgeable following feedback that they were too easy to dodge
Mistress of Apocrypha - Master PetSorc
Founder of The Lollygaggers
Creator of the 1-bar vMA build
World first solo vFH
Unchained Altmer Sorc Tank
Visit me on YouTube! Mistress of Apocrypha ESO1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LioraValkyrie wrote: »If memory serves correctly, the cliff racers were made un-dodgeable following feedback that they were too easy to dodge
Yes, and because it does nothing else....0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LioraValkyrie wrote: »If memory serves correctly, the cliff racers were made un-dodgeable following feedback that they were too easy to dodge
Stamracer does nothing else. Mag racer has extra ranged damage. And both can be used with shalk and an instahit ability for burst.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LioraValkyrie wrote: »If memory serves correctly, the cliff racers were made un-dodgeable following feedback that they were too easy to dodge
Stamracer does nothing else. Mag racer has extra ranged damage. And both can be used with shalk and an instahit ability for burst.
I'm guessing this is the same logic that got frag nerfed lol0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »LioraValkyrie wrote: »If memory serves correctly, the cliff racers were made un-dodgeable following feedback that they were too easy to dodge
Stamracer does nothing else. Mag racer has extra ranged damage. And both can be used with shalk and an instahit ability for burst.
I'm guessing this is the same logic that got frag nerfed lol
Frag wasn't undodgable and unreflectable, and has counters in all builds, no idea why it was nerfed. I'm fine with bird getting something like a peck dot at the end for PvE and pressure, but it shouldn't hard counter builds so heavily.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »LioraValkyrie wrote: »If memory serves correctly, the cliff racers were made un-dodgeable following feedback that they were too easy to dodge
Stamracer does nothing else. Mag racer has extra ranged damage. And both can be used with shalk and an instahit ability for burst.
I'm guessing this is the same logic that got frag nerfed lol
Frag wasn't undodgable and unreflectable, and has counters in all builds, no idea why it was nerfed. I'm fine with bird getting something like a peck dot at the end for PvE and pressure, but it shouldn't hard counter builds so heavily.
I would have MUCH preferred a buff to medium. Which I feel still is necessary. Rather than nerf everything that's decent against medium0 -
NinchiTV✭✭✭✭✭Now they just need to scale back the dmg from sub assault by a few And i'd consider it a balanced class0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »And why am I upset?
Not because it's dodgeable alone, the fact that they did absolutely nothing to help in PvE nor compensate for the change.
It's just plain worse - not different, just worse.
Could they have tweaked an artic wind morph?
Added an effect?
Reduced ability costs?
Of course, but no, ah hell no
But I suppose I should be happy that mSorc is no longer the worst PvP class
When was this golden time when magsorc was on the bottom? Please tell me, if you think it's right now sorry, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar want to have a talk with you
Nothzing that's stamina can be bottom purely because of available sets that are OP
The opness of those sets isn't enough to push those classes above magsorc performance.
What? Lol stamplar is by far top dog right now.
In what universe?
You must not be on console.
I am in fact not on console - I am on PC.
I have been playing Stamplar since launch.
If Stamplar is the top dog right now tell me this:
How come I see more stamblades, stamwardens and stamsorcs around - not to mention magsorcs, magplars and magdks?
Surely if Stamplar was the top dog everyone would have gravitated towards those just like they did with magdk pre 1.6, magsorcs and stamblades in 1.6 - One Tamriel and Stamwardens pre-Morrowind?
How come when I go to dueling sites I see at top 1-2 other Templars which are both magicka (besides me) while the other classes easily have over 10 of each representing?
How come there are no big streamers that main a Stamplar? But instead play Sorcs, NBs, DKs and Stamwardens?
Stamplar is a bottom feeder spec and has been since launch. It's getting better and better - but not because Stamplars are getting their issues adressed, but because other classes are getting minor adjustments patch by patch to bring them down and because monster sets and other item sets are making the difference in classes so miniscule by now.
You made the claim so the burden of evidence is on you.
Go ahead and bring a real argument as to why Stamplars are "top dogs" right now - I expect a full comparison with other classes including statistical values and analysis.
I did these a year back. They were delivered right to Wrobel's desk (because he asked for feedback from me and a few other Stamplar players) and nothing was done.
But please, correct me, I implore you.
K.0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Zinaroth ive a discussion about this with you about stamplars a few months back.
While i dont think stamplars are top dog in any sense atm, i also dont think theyre 100% trash. I i think a lot of people think stamplars are op beacuse of 1. Bleeds are stupidly overperforming 2.purge
To anyone thinking that, go play a non bleed stamplar and you will see where they fall in line, in perspective to other classes.
Good luck killing anything that blocks without bleeds. Good luck landing a cc on any half decent nb that knows How to use shade and rolles around 24\7.
Our sustain is outright atrocious, and repentance got massive nerfs in Morrowind.
Our tankiness flew right out the window with Major mending, we cant even use restoring Focus anymore since you need channeled to get the mag sustain(or good luck being permadefiled on a class with one of the worst selfheals).
Our class based cc is more detrimental to our melee based combos rather than helpful, not to mention that its currently broken and makes ppl rubberband like it's nobodys business.
That being said i dont think stamplars are weak, we have the potential to push out a disgusting amount of pressure, extended ritual is still a top tier pvp skill, with bleeds we reck any and all block builds and just in general i find the class fun to play
It doesnt have well defined combos like other classes like Nbs fear incap etc. but that's fine, un fact it makes us less predictable.
Also next patch a lot of the changes could affect the way stamplars are played quite a lot.
Ok after composing this wall of that i realised that this is a warden thread, sooo on topic:
I think wardens should get some of their damage moved over to dots, so to allow them more defined rotations in PVE and reduce their burst in pvp.
One of the issues the class is facing that all the buffs and heals it has are completely useless in a pve dps environment, while makes them far too potent in pvp where some of these buffs are not as easily accesable as in an organised trial group.
Then you have shimmering shield which just shouldnt even exist in its current state, the fact that stam wardens basically have harness magicka aganist projectiles is outright rewarded.
Im 100% fine with deep fissure and sub assault just as soon as they fix all the wonkiness it has with z axis. The skill is massively telegraphed, requires you to have your target in front of you and also cant be spammed(thank god).
Sure there are ways to ensure it hits, but there are just as many ways to ensure it misses.
Ok this has already been too long, disclaimer and tldr: my post is very opinionated, nothing i stated here is a fact.0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »How long did it take for people to catch on to wardens ability, before many of you called them trash in pve and pvp on the forums until they became fotm because BG players and Kodi showed otherwise MONTH'S later. Let's not forget the threads warning how good they are but the majority was against it, even people that now say they're op.
Not sure where you are getting this info but people were calling Wardens OP in PVP before they even made it to live. Just because Kodi made it popular it doesnt mean that no one knew how to play a warden. And the fact that it took some time for people to learn the class it doesnt mean that it was balanced. It was a new class. It would obviously need time to learn it.
After they came out many people said they aren’t good, there’s threads on the forum. So I don’t know where you have been. Didn’t say no one knew, don’t miscontrue what I said.
And did you not read my last sentence, no way you read it and that was the first thing you conjured up. Comprehend before you reply.
So you said people had mixed opinions to prove what exactly?
After the new class hype died down there wasn’t mixed opinions, the general consensus was that they were bad. On the game and on the forums. The reality is people started to dust off their wardens late last year when you started seeing nerf shalk threads; that was October, albeit people didn’t start screaming op again until at least November/December. But I digress, the original point should’ve been clear if you used your context clues. Instead you decided to take what you wanted from it to disprove whatever misconstrued point you thought I was making.
I didnt take whatever i wanted from it although i did miss the last sentence. I just stated my opinion cause as far as i remember "wardens OP" comments were all over the place from day 1. And i also said that popularity and how long it took for people to catch up are in no way relevant with warden effectiveness. It just naturally takes time to learn the class which is one of the reasons why warden OP comments resurfaced later down the line when people actually learnt how to play the class. The other reason which you forgot is the proc set meta. During that time everything was useless and OP at the same time. Everyone were playing a different version of the same thing. Just stack procs and call it a day. This was the meta. Class balance was literally irrelevant during that period. When procs got "balanced" and classes actually mattered wardens came on top.
I already hinted at people said they were op in my original post, that was before they went live though. How long it took people to catch up is pertinent in terms of said people calling them bad then shelving their Warden. I didn’t forget proc meta but even during that time stam Warden still had the best kit to compliment procs other than stam nb. I wouldn’t say class balance was irrelevant because there was clear winners during that time. What was irrelevant was most gear choices because people ran 2-3 proc sets. Although gear meta has always been around, so the two really don’t correlate. It’s more so people already had the impression the class was bad until other people came along with builds for them.
Hence why October you see the shalk thread, November you see does stam wardens need a nerf; then in December threads saying wardens everywhere and both stam & mag are op.
And again what does any of this have to do with warden performance. And more specifically how is this a reason for the hardest hitting spammable in the game to be undodgeable?
Nvm bruh, you’re just one of those people.
It was a legitimate question in a topic about warden performance and more specifically about birds. It was a topic i brought up in my first reply to your comment which you never addressed and instead you were just talking about history.
But "i am one of those people"
Yes you’re one of those people because you’re reaching for points that’s not there rather than reading the post for what it is. My post had nothing to do with birds, I didn’t even mention birds. The OP isn’t about balancing the game around the 1 percent so that should tell you I’m responding to something else. Context clues.
Then i apologize, i just got carried away with everyone overreacting about how bad wardens are, now that the hardest hitting spammable in the game is dodgeable and is finally in line with every other ability.
It’s cool, I don’t take things personal even if my tone seems serious.
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jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »You now suck for Pve and PvP
Cool
Edit: I should say magicka, the dive change does absolutely nothing to the darn near OP Stam version
It actually kills a Bow/Bow Warden against any nightblades or shuffle users. With an unreliable CC on a Warden and the ability to dodge every bow attack, plus the lack of a class execute, a few birds were the only way to actually execute a nightblade.
It isn't just about the ability to spam the birds. People can do that with force pulse, which is also undodgeable. Being able to use them tactically in a build is now gone.1