Maintenance for the week of April 27:
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Bye Warden
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »@Joy_Division
I agree with your statement, but balance decisions should be done around the top players in my opinion. If you use the base skill level of the average player in ESO for balancing it would be ridiculous.
OK, but a top 1% player will get more DPS playing any other class than a warden and a top 1% player will be a more lethal PvP opponent playing another spec than a magicka Warden.
Yes, of course. But the reality is also that balance really only matters on the top end - if you hit only 20k DPS on your Warden you still will complete every content the game has to offer, minus vet HM Trials. The majority of people complaining are not in the territory where they could clear a vet HM Trial regardless of Warden being balanced or not. In my opinion the class can’t be balanced without a complete rework.
Stop stealing my opinion
In that case - where is your agree, insightful or awesome on my post?
Did Aliyavana took control over your account? 0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »@Joy_Division
I agree with your statement, but balance decisions should be done around the top players in my opinion. If you use the base skill level of the average player in ESO for balancing it would be ridiculous.
OK, but a top 1% player will get more DPS playing any other class than a warden and a top 1% player will be a more lethal PvP opponent playing another spec than a magicka Warden.
Have to disagree with the PvP part.
Magwarden is a genuinely strong spec, atm you have atleast 3 encounters you win by default, magnb, stamplar and stamsorc in open world builds + low chances of dying to magsorcs due to shimmering shield.
Or check how pelican played his warden in the duel tournament. He was one reason for the lack of stamchars in the tournament.
Magwarden might be worse than stamwarden but it's still ahead of most other specs.
Not when Shimmering Shield gets nerfed.
Still the offensive capabilities of magwarden are nothing to sneeze at while the defences even with a balanced version of shimmering are great.
But the changes which need to be done to Magwarden will either result in more dominance or a completely other playstyle0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TO ALL MAGDENS:
If birds are so bad vs pulse, why would you want to change the delay. Wouldn't it just be a worse copy of pulse? Both unreflectable, both dodgable, but one provides the added effects of destro.
Why do wardens run both. I'll give you a hint. Delayed burst.
They ran both because it's literally the only way to fill your bar
Edit: that burst combo was good against pros for about the first two weeks, after that only potatoes die to it
I'm guessing you mean passives. But surely something else can fit the bill. And I am pretty sure that is same with all burst combos. ProvPro is decided by who makes the mistake first. My burst on sorcs can be avoided, same on my DK, same on warden, same on NB. It shouldn't require mechanic skipping abilities to work. Which is why I am all for powerlash being dodgable, for example.
You talk a lot about magWarden. What's the character name of yours on PC EU. You seem to be an expert on the class, so you might can give mine some tips, great master of wisdom?
I don't play one, not going to pretend to, but I have played long enough to know that delayed burst is good, take sorc, and hard counters are for nubs who can't time or outplay. Seeing you in BGs with your premade and your tanky bird spam really tells me a lot
Look, thats what I thought - "tanky birdspam" without me having ever birds slotted... I think you are not in the position to comment on the class since your input seems to be based more on vague assumptions than actual observation or first-hand experience.
Not really played proper since new year, but I have 100% been birded by you before.
And if you don't slot it. Then why complain. If you are one of the wardens who slots it only for passives, because pulse is oh so better, then why complain?
Shalk is fine, trees are fine, dot is fine. Hell even the Defile can be dealt with. But bird is unreasonable as it was, and still provides a good burst setup. It's not like I have no exp of the class. I played it in early morrow, but due to lack of slots and having to have mag/stam of each class at diff race I rerolled an sdk.
You're trying to justify a nerf to a class you've never played because of zergs spamming a skill you've never used? Is that what I'm getting here?
Do you selectively choose comments that fit your silly ideas? I have played it in the morrow patch. I know how broken birds are vs dodge builds. If a non nb tried to roll away, they would get birdsspammed by me. Med doesn't really have much going for it.
And on the flip side, things should be balanced around openworld. That includes zergs. I.e. Soul assault, it was broken xv1 trash. Like bird. It now has a counter.
I have a question. I assume you think the power lash changes are fair. So do I. So what you you think of the bird changes. Because if you think undodgable is fine on a spammable but not a set up counterable ability, then you have some skewed perspective.
Fit my silly ideas? What "idea" did i give? I dont think i made a suggestion besides saying dodgable cliff racer isnt the solution to the lackluster offense the mag warden has....
The counter is to side step shalks so you aren't stunned. What ever happened to block? How about going offensive to put pressure on the warden? A stun maybe? LOS? SEEMS to be a L2P issue, not a dodge the birds issue.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Guys, it hits too hard to be undodgeable.
Yes, that is true. The way they "adjusted" the problem is bad nonetheless.
The change should have been that stam morph is dodgeable but retains the damage increase from range. Magicka morph should still be undodgeable, but get reduced damage by 10%, maybe 15%.
That way you retained the hard counter to dodge builds while nerfing stam wardens (which would be what is needed).
If then shimmering shield got a slight magicka cost increase so stamdens lose a bit of their ranged immunity and magdens have increased opportunity cost, the combination would have had:
- an effect on the stamden issue
- a tolerable effect on magdens
- retaining unique playstyles for both classes.
But no, they did nothing against stamdens and removed feasibility of magdens. Why play a magden now that every other class can do a better job, except for buffing a ball group?
You do not address overperforming/underperforming abilities by making them entirely ignore defensive mechanics. Hard counters are bad. Period. And birds are anything but underperfoming even when they are dodgeable. Its the hardest hitting spammable in the game.
Seriously what is up with everyone asking for hard counters against everything. Is it really so bad to have to think and work to get a kill? Why does everyone need to have the mentality of "i cant fight this guy so give me something to abuse him"?
Birds were a hard counter to one defensive ability. Shields and block rendered birds uneffective.
Together with the other changes to abilities going through dodge, dodge now has very very few counters, making dodge the problem instead of birds.
If you read what I wrote, I actually proposed a layered action on birds, adjusting the ability to make it fit into the game.
Your reply didn't address anything of what I have put up for consideration. So... thanks for making me waste time on you, I guess...
And in regards to "hardest hitting spammable": haha? Dizzying, surprise attack, jabs, strife, dark flare, all of them are similar or surpassing birds. Taking a very specific build optimized for birds as a reference point is.... bad?
Birds were a hard counter to one defensive mechanic. The irony is that defensive mechanic is mostly the only available mechanic for medium armor. I am sorry but when you get to a point, where you can just say "ok im just gonna spam this ability and watch that guy die" then something is not going right. Birds are not ineffective against other defensive mechanics. They just have to be used smartly in a combo. This is called playing good and outplaying ur opponent and not abusing him with hard counters.
Your suggestion is very very bad. You suggested a nerf to dmg but keeping it undodgeable so u can abuse dodge builds. You literally suggested to nerf the ability for good players that actually play good with it, but keep it untouched for any potato abusing it.
Dizzying, dark flare, jabs? You are comparing apples with oranges. Those are abilities with a cast time. Not instant cast. They will obviously hit harder. And ill still argue that jabs dont hit harder. No specialized build or anything. Just talking about base dmg without buffs, gear, cp or anything. Birds have the same tooltip as surpirse attack. Surprise attack get major fracture, birds get a 15% dmg boost. Strife isnt even close. Birds hit way harder even without the +15% buff. In terms of raw dmg, birds are the hardest hitting spammable in the game. And by a long margin.Edited by pieratsos on January 30, 2018 3:46PM0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TO ALL MAGDENS:
If birds are so bad vs pulse, why would you want to change the delay. Wouldn't it just be a worse copy of pulse? Both unreflectable, both dodgable, but one provides the added effects of destro.
Why do wardens run both. I'll give you a hint. Delayed burst.
They ran both because it's literally the only way to fill your bar
Edit: that burst combo was good against pros for about the first two weeks, after that only potatoes die to it
I'm guessing you mean passives. But surely something else can fit the bill. And I am pretty sure that is same with all burst combos. ProvPro is decided by who makes the mistake first. My burst on sorcs can be avoided, same on my DK, same on warden, same on NB. It shouldn't require mechanic skipping abilities to work. Which is why I am all for powerlash being dodgable, for example.
You talk a lot about magWarden. What's the character name of yours on PC EU. You seem to be an expert on the class, so you might can give mine some tips, great master of wisdom?
I don't play one, not going to pretend to, but I have played long enough to know that delayed burst is good, take sorc, and hard counters are for nubs who can't time or outplay. Seeing you in BGs with your premade and your tanky bird spam really tells me a lot
Look, thats what I thought - "tanky birdspam" without me having ever birds slotted... I think you are not in the position to comment on the class since your input seems to be based more on vague assumptions than actual observation or first-hand experience.
Not really played proper since new year, but I have 100% been birded by you before.
And if you don't slot it. Then why complain. If you are one of the wardens who slots it only for passives, because pulse is oh so better, then why complain?
Shalk is fine, trees are fine, dot is fine. Hell even the Defile can be dealt with. But bird is unreasonable as it was, and still provides a good burst setup. It's not like I have no exp of the class. I played it in early morrow, but due to lack of slots and having to have mag/stam of each class at diff race I rerolled an sdk.
You're trying to justify a nerf to a class you've never played because of zergs spamming a skill you've never used? Is that what I'm getting here?
Do you selectively choose comments that fit your silly ideas? I have played it in the morrow patch. I know how broken birds are vs dodge builds. If a non nb tried to roll away, they would get birdsspammed by me. Med doesn't really have much going for it.
And on the flip side, things should be balanced around openworld. That includes zergs. I.e. Soul assault, it was broken xv1 trash. Like bird. It now has a counter.
I have a question. I assume you think the power lash changes are fair. So do I. So what you you think of the bird changes. Because if you think undodgable is fine on a spammable but not a set up counterable ability, then you have some skewed perspective.
Fit my silly ideas? What "idea" did i give? I dont think i made a suggestion besides saying dodgable cliff racer isnt the solution to the lackluster offense the mag warden has....
The counter is to side step shalks so you aren't stunned. What ever happened to block? How about going offensive to put pressure on the warden? A stun maybe? LOS? SEEMS to be a L2P issue, not a dodge the birds issue.
Lackluster offense? You mean for PvE. Because making racer dodgable is exactly what was needed. That way they can recieve buffs without deleting med build further.
And block... My med armour stamsorc should stop and block, sacrificing mobility and get blasted by unblockable shalks. Nonono. A good warden will see the block snare and easily land shalks, would take more than a mere sidestep.
MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TO ALL MAGDENS:
If birds are so bad vs pulse, why would you want to change the delay. Wouldn't it just be a worse copy of pulse? Both unreflectable, both dodgable, but one provides the added effects of destro.
Why do wardens run both. I'll give you a hint. Delayed burst.
They ran both because it's literally the only way to fill your bar
Edit: that burst combo was good against pros for about the first two weeks, after that only potatoes die to it
I'm guessing you mean passives. But surely something else can fit the bill. And I am pretty sure that is same with all burst combos. ProvPro is decided by who makes the mistake first. My burst on sorcs can be avoided, same on my DK, same on warden, same on NB. It shouldn't require mechanic skipping abilities to work. Which is why I am all for powerlash being dodgable, for example.
You talk a lot about magWarden. What's the character name of yours on PC EU. You seem to be an expert on the class, so you might can give mine some tips, great master of wisdom?
I don't play one, not going to pretend to, but I have played long enough to know that delayed burst is good, take sorc, and hard counters are for nubs who can't time or outplay. Seeing you in BGs with your premade and your tanky bird spam really tells me a lot
Look, thats what I thought - "tanky birdspam" without me having ever birds slotted... I think you are not in the position to comment on the class since your input seems to be based more on vague assumptions than actual observation or first-hand experience.
Not really played proper since new year, but I have 100% been birded by you before.
And if you don't slot it. Then why complain. If you are one of the wardens who slots it only for passives, because pulse is oh so better, then why complain?
Shalk is fine, trees are fine, dot is fine. Hell even the Defile can be dealt with. But bird is unreasonable as it was, and still provides a good burst setup. It's not like I have no exp of the class. I played it in early morrow, but due to lack of slots and having to have mag/stam of each class at diff race I rerolled an sdk.
You're trying to justify a nerf to a class you've never played because of zergs spamming a skill you've never used? Is that what I'm getting here?
Do you selectively choose comments that fit your silly ideas? I have played it in the morrow patch. I know how broken birds are vs dodge builds. If a non nb tried to roll away, they would get birdsspammed by me. Med doesn't really have much going for it.
And on the flip side, things should be balanced around openworld. That includes zergs. I.e. Soul assault, it was broken xv1 trash. Like bird. It now has a counter.
I have a question. I assume you think the power lash changes are fair. So do I. So what you you think of the bird changes. Because if you think undodgable is fine on a spammable but not a set up counterable ability, then you have some skewed perspective.
Fit my silly ideas? What "idea" did i give? I dont think i made a suggestion besides saying dodgable cliff racer isnt the solution to the lackluster offense the mag warden has....
The counter is to side step shalks so you aren't stunned. What ever happened to block? How about going offensive to put pressure on the warden? A stun maybe? LOS? SEEMS to be a L2P issue, not a dodge the birds issue.
Lackluster offense? You mean for PvE. Because making racer dodgable is exactly what was needed. That way they can recieve buffs without deleting med build further.
And block... My med armour stamsorc should stop and block, sacrificing mobility and get blasted by unblockable shalks. Nonono. A good warden will see the block snare and easily land shalks, would take more than a mere sidestep.
So if dodge is the counter to birds, what is the counter to dodge? Oh there is none now? Well, that's interesting. What's so annoying is the coming perma dodge roll meta that's coming. Wait and see.2 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Guys, it’s possible to have a 14k tooltip on birds + 5% spinners penetration on a setup with perfect sustain. It’s too much. If you delay the bird+clench half a second Fissure will still hit and CC a rolling opponent and force your birds to hit. This is a huge nerf to bird spammers but it won’t hurt my playstyle too muchEdited by Lexxypwns on January 30, 2018 3:27PM1 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TO ALL MAGDENS:
If birds are so bad vs pulse, why would you want to change the delay. Wouldn't it just be a worse copy of pulse? Both unreflectable, both dodgable, but one provides the added effects of destro.
Why do wardens run both. I'll give you a hint. Delayed burst.
They ran both because it's literally the only way to fill your bar
Edit: that burst combo was good against pros for about the first two weeks, after that only potatoes die to it
I'm guessing you mean passives. But surely something else can fit the bill. And I am pretty sure that is same with all burst combos. ProvPro is decided by who makes the mistake first. My burst on sorcs can be avoided, same on my DK, same on warden, same on NB. It shouldn't require mechanic skipping abilities to work. Which is why I am all for powerlash being dodgable, for example.
You talk a lot about magWarden. What's the character name of yours on PC EU. You seem to be an expert on the class, so you might can give mine some tips, great master of wisdom?
I don't play one, not going to pretend to, but I have played long enough to know that delayed burst is good, take sorc, and hard counters are for nubs who can't time or outplay. Seeing you in BGs with your premade and your tanky bird spam really tells me a lot
Look, thats what I thought - "tanky birdspam" without me having ever birds slotted... I think you are not in the position to comment on the class since your input seems to be based more on vague assumptions than actual observation or first-hand experience.
Not really played proper since new year, but I have 100% been birded by you before.
And if you don't slot it. Then why complain. If you are one of the wardens who slots it only for passives, because pulse is oh so better, then why complain?
Shalk is fine, trees are fine, dot is fine. Hell even the Defile can be dealt with. But bird is unreasonable as it was, and still provides a good burst setup. It's not like I have no exp of the class. I played it in early morrow, but due to lack of slots and having to have mag/stam of each class at diff race I rerolled an sdk.
You're trying to justify a nerf to a class you've never played because of zergs spamming a skill you've never used? Is that what I'm getting here?
Do you selectively choose comments that fit your silly ideas? I have played it in the morrow patch. I know how broken birds are vs dodge builds. If a non nb tried to roll away, they would get birdsspammed by me. Med doesn't really have much going for it.
And on the flip side, things should be balanced around openworld. That includes zergs. I.e. Soul assault, it was broken xv1 trash. Like bird. It now has a counter.
I have a question. I assume you think the power lash changes are fair. So do I. So what you you think of the bird changes. Because if you think undodgable is fine on a spammable but not a set up counterable ability, then you have some skewed perspective.
Fit my silly ideas? What "idea" did i give? I dont think i made a suggestion besides saying dodgable cliff racer isnt the solution to the lackluster offense the mag warden has....
The counter is to side step shalks so you aren't stunned. What ever happened to block? How about going offensive to put pressure on the warden? A stun maybe? LOS? SEEMS to be a L2P issue, not a dodge the birds issue.
Lackluster offense? You mean for PvE. Because making racer dodgable is exactly what was needed. That way they can recieve buffs without deleting med build further.
And block... My med armour stamsorc should stop and block, sacrificing mobility and get blasted by unblockable shalks. Nonono. A good warden will see the block snare and easily land shalks, would take more than a mere sidestep.
So if dodge is the counter to birds, what is the counter to dodge? Oh there is none now? Well, that's interesting. What's so annoying is the coming perma dodge roll meta that's coming. Wait and see.Guys, it hits too hard to be undodgeable.
Yes, that is true. The way they "adjusted" the problem is bad nonetheless.
The change should have been that stam morph is dodgeable but retains the damage increase from range. Magicka morph should still be undodgeable, but get reduced damage by 10%, maybe 15%.
That way you retained the hard counter to dodge builds while nerfing stam wardens (which would be what is needed).
If then shimmering shield got a slight magicka cost increase so stamdens lose a bit of their ranged immunity and magdens have increased opportunity cost, the combination would have had:
- an effect on the stamden issue
- a tolerable effect on magdens
- retaining unique playstyles for both classes.
But no, they did nothing against stamdens and removed feasibility of magdens. Why play a magden now that every other class can do a better job, except for buffing a ball group?
You do not address overperforming/underperforming abilities by making them entirely ignore defensive mechanics. Hard counters are bad. Period. And birds are anything but underperfoming even when they are dodgeable. Its the hardest hitting spammable in the game.
Seriously what is up with everyone asking for hard counters against everything. Is it really so bad to have to think and work to get a kill? Why does everyone need to have the mentality of "i cant fight this guy so give me something to abuse him"?
Birds were a hard counter to one defensive ability. Shields and block rendered birds uneffective.
Together with the other changes to abilities going through dodge, dodge now has very very few counters, making dodge the problem instead of birds.
If you read what I wrote, I actually proposed a layered action on birds, adjusting the ability to make it fit into the game.
Your reply didn't address anything of what I have put up for consideration. So... thanks for making me waste time on you, I guess...
Dodge still is affected by aoes, dots, on target abilities, ults. Etc etc.Edited by ak_pvp on January 30, 2018 3:48PMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TO ALL MAGDENS:
If birds are so bad vs pulse, why would you want to change the delay. Wouldn't it just be a worse copy of pulse? Both unreflectable, both dodgable, but one provides the added effects of destro.
Why do wardens run both. I'll give you a hint. Delayed burst.
They ran both because it's literally the only way to fill your bar
Edit: that burst combo was good against pros for about the first two weeks, after that only potatoes die to it
I'm guessing you mean passives. But surely something else can fit the bill. And I am pretty sure that is same with all burst combos. ProvPro is decided by who makes the mistake first. My burst on sorcs can be avoided, same on my DK, same on warden, same on NB. It shouldn't require mechanic skipping abilities to work. Which is why I am all for powerlash being dodgable, for example.
You talk a lot about magWarden. What's the character name of yours on PC EU. You seem to be an expert on the class, so you might can give mine some tips, great master of wisdom?
I don't play one, not going to pretend to, but I have played long enough to know that delayed burst is good, take sorc, and hard counters are for nubs who can't time or outplay. Seeing you in BGs with your premade and your tanky bird spam really tells me a lot
Look, thats what I thought - "tanky birdspam" without me having ever birds slotted... I think you are not in the position to comment on the class since your input seems to be based more on vague assumptions than actual observation or first-hand experience.
Not really played proper since new year, but I have 100% been birded by you before.
And if you don't slot it. Then why complain. If you are one of the wardens who slots it only for passives, because pulse is oh so better, then why complain?
Shalk is fine, trees are fine, dot is fine. Hell even the Defile can be dealt with. But bird is unreasonable as it was, and still provides a good burst setup. It's not like I have no exp of the class. I played it in early morrow, but due to lack of slots and having to have mag/stam of each class at diff race I rerolled an sdk.
You're trying to justify a nerf to a class you've never played because of zergs spamming a skill you've never used? Is that what I'm getting here?
Do you selectively choose comments that fit your silly ideas? I have played it in the morrow patch. I know how broken birds are vs dodge builds. If a non nb tried to roll away, they would get birdsspammed by me. Med doesn't really have much going for it.
And on the flip side, things should be balanced around openworld. That includes zergs. I.e. Soul assault, it was broken xv1 trash. Like bird. It now has a counter.
I have a question. I assume you think the power lash changes are fair. So do I. So what you you think of the bird changes. Because if you think undodgable is fine on a spammable but not a set up counterable ability, then you have some skewed perspective.
Fit my silly ideas? What "idea" did i give? I dont think i made a suggestion besides saying dodgable cliff racer isnt the solution to the lackluster offense the mag warden has....
The counter is to side step shalks so you aren't stunned. What ever happened to block? How about going offensive to put pressure on the warden? A stun maybe? LOS? SEEMS to be a L2P issue, not a dodge the birds issue.
Lackluster offense? You mean for PvE. Because making racer dodgable is exactly what was needed. That way they can recieve buffs without deleting med build further.
And block... My med armour stamsorc should stop and block, sacrificing mobility and get blasted by unblockable shalks. Nonono. A good warden will see the block snare and easily land shalks, would take more than a mere sidestep.
So if dodge is the counter to birds, what is the counter to dodge? Oh there is none now? Well, that's interesting. What's so annoying is the coming perma dodge roll meta that's coming. Wait and see.Guys, it hits too hard to be undodgeable.
Yes, that is true. The way they "adjusted" the problem is bad nonetheless.
The change should have been that stam morph is dodgeable but retains the damage increase from range. Magicka morph should still be undodgeable, but get reduced damage by 10%, maybe 15%.
That way you retained the hard counter to dodge builds while nerfing stam wardens (which would be what is needed).
If then shimmering shield got a slight magicka cost increase so stamdens lose a bit of their ranged immunity and magdens have increased opportunity cost, the combination would have had:
- an effect on the stamden issue
- a tolerable effect on magdens
- retaining unique playstyles for both classes.
But no, they did nothing against stamdens and removed feasibility of magdens. Why play a magden now that every other class can do a better job, except for buffing a ball group?
You do not address overperforming/underperforming abilities by making them entirely ignore defensive mechanics. Hard counters are bad. Period. And birds are anything but underperfoming even when they are dodgeable. Its the hardest hitting spammable in the game.
Seriously what is up with everyone asking for hard counters against everything. Is it really so bad to have to think and work to get a kill? Why does everyone need to have the mentality of "i cant fight this guy so give me something to abuse him"?
Birds were a hard counter to one defensive ability. Shields and block rendered birds uneffective.
Together with the other changes to abilities going through dodge, dodge now has very very few counters, making dodge the problem instead of birds.
If you read what I wrote, I actually proposed a layered action on birds, adjusting the ability to make it fit into the game.
Your reply didn't address anything of what I have put up for consideration. So... thanks for making me waste time on you, I guess...
Dodge still is affected by aoes, dots, on target abilities, ults. Etc etc.
Fissure hits and CCs through dodge. That’s the counter to dodge spammers. You just adjust the combo timing back half a second1 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »You now suck for Pve and PvP
Cool
Edit: I should say magicka, the dive change does absolutely nothing to the darn near OP Stam version
Omg overreact much. If you needed undodgeable birds to perform as a MagWarden in PvP that tells me that you were basically just surfing around Xv1ing solo/small scale players.
Lol for real though.0 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Warden was/is conceptually broken. I don´t think undodgeable spammable should have been ever been a thing to begin with.
Now they can begin adressing the classes shortcomings.
Problem is people will gravitate now to shimmering complaints when they get killed. 3 months and a shimmering nerf later, magWardens will be bottom tier, while stamWardens still own the place. Yay, forum balance!
Talk to me in 3 months when it doesnt happen.0 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭Guys, it hits too hard to be undodgeable.
Yes, that is true. The way they "adjusted" the problem is bad nonetheless.
The change should have been that stam morph is dodgeable but retains the damage increase from range. Magicka morph should still be undodgeable, but get reduced damage by 10%, maybe 15%.
That way you retained the hard counter to dodge builds while nerfing stam wardens (which would be what is needed).
If then shimmering shield got a slight magicka cost increase so stamdens lose a bit of their ranged immunity and magdens have increased opportunity cost, the combination would have had:
- an effect on the stamden issue
- a tolerable effect on magdens
- retaining unique playstyles for both classes.
But no, they did nothing against stamdens and removed feasibility of magdens. Why play a magden now that every other class can do a better job, except for buffing a ball group?
You do not address overperforming/underperforming abilities by making them entirely ignore defensive mechanics. Hard counters are bad. Period. And birds are anything but underperfoming even when they are dodgeable. Its the hardest hitting spammable in the game.
Seriously what is up with everyone asking for hard counters against everything. Is it really so bad to have to think and work to get a kill? Why does everyone need to have the mentality of "i cant fight this guy so give me something to abuse him"?
Birds were a hard counter to one defensive ability. Shields and block rendered birds uneffective.
Together with the other changes to abilities going through dodge, dodge now has very very few counters, making dodge the problem instead of birds.
If you read what I wrote, I actually proposed a layered action on birds, adjusting the ability to make it fit into the game.
Your reply didn't address anything of what I have put up for consideration. So... thanks for making me waste time on you, I guess...
And in regards to "hardest hitting spammable": haha? Dizzying, surprise attack, jabs, strife, dark flare, all of them are similar or surpassing birds. Taking a very specific build optimized for birds as a reference point is.... bad?
Birds being dodgeable and all of a sudden people are scared of the WORST armor archetype by far in ESO. If someone beats you in medium they are just better then you.
Medium builds main form of defense and pretty much the only effective one was completely shutdown by one chump spamming one button over and over again.. the nerf was needed.1 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.
You now have to outplay a medium armor build to kill them, much like they have to do to you. You have to hit the Fissure before the rest of the combo so that he’s CC’ed and his dodge roll is canceled, similar to using DBoS for the same reason. You can still always just run stam poisons and they’ll run dry after an application or two.
On live it’s virtually impossible for a medium build to recover from a magden’s burst because you can keep so much pressure up that goes through their main defense. The only counter to racer is very costly in medium and sill doesn’t counter fissureEdited by Lexxypwns on January 30, 2018 5:09PM1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guys, it hits too hard to be undodgeable.
Yes, that is true. The way they "adjusted" the problem is bad nonetheless.
The change should have been that stam morph is dodgeable but retains the damage increase from range. Magicka morph should still be undodgeable, but get reduced damage by 10%, maybe 15%.
That way you retained the hard counter to dodge builds while nerfing stam wardens (which would be what is needed).
If then shimmering shield got a slight magicka cost increase so stamdens lose a bit of their ranged immunity and magdens have increased opportunity cost, the combination would have had:
- an effect on the stamden issue
- a tolerable effect on magdens
- retaining unique playstyles for both classes.
But no, they did nothing against stamdens and removed feasibility of magdens. Why play a magden now that every other class can do a better job, except for buffing a ball group?
You do not address overperforming/underperforming abilities by making them entirely ignore defensive mechanics. Hard counters are bad. Period. And birds are anything but underperfoming even when they are dodgeable. Its the hardest hitting spammable in the game.
Seriously what is up with everyone asking for hard counters against everything. Is it really so bad to have to think and work to get a kill? Why does everyone need to have the mentality of "i cant fight this guy so give me something to abuse him"?
Birds were a hard counter to one defensive ability. Shields and block rendered birds uneffective.
Together with the other changes to abilities going through dodge, dodge now has very very few counters, making dodge the problem instead of birds.
If you read what I wrote, I actually proposed a layered action on birds, adjusting the ability to make it fit into the game.
Your reply didn't address anything of what I have put up for consideration. So... thanks for making me waste time on you, I guess...
And in regards to "hardest hitting spammable": haha? Dizzying, surprise attack, jabs, strife, dark flare, all of them are similar or surpassing birds. Taking a very specific build optimized for birds as a reference point is.... bad?
Birds being dodgeable and all of a sudden people are scared of the WORST armor archetype by far in ESO. If someone beats you in medium they are just better then you.
Medium builds main form of defense and pretty much the only effective one was completely shutdown by one chump spamming one button over and over again.. the nerf was needed.
And dodge roll isn't a one button chump spam?
Biased much?4 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.
You now have to outplay a medium armor build to kill them, much like they have to do to you. You have to hit the Fissure before the rest of the combo so that he’s CC’ed and his dodge roll is canceled, similar to using DBoS for the same reason. You can still always just run stam poisons and they’ll run dry after an application or two.
What exactly does a Stam NB have to worry the F about?
Outplay is laughable.
Stam NB was already in a great spot with Stam armor and cloak, now it's even better.
Anyone whom thinks magicka has any advantage over Stam is just biased or stupid
Oh and Stam is Medium AND heavy, there's like no such thing as heavy mag for a lot of builds now (what shield?)Edited by Waffennacht on January 30, 2018 5:11PM2 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.
You now have to outplay a medium armor build to kill them, much like they have to do to you. You have to hit the Fissure before the rest of the combo so that he’s CC’ed and his dodge roll is canceled, similar to using DBoS for the same reason. You can still always just run stam poisons and they’ll run dry after an application or two.
What exactly does a Stam NB have to worry the F about?
Outplay is laughable.
Stam NB was already in a great spot with Stam armor and cloak, now it's even better.
Anyone whom thinks magicka has any advantage over Stam is just biased or stupid
The same things but they can cloak in between? It's not like stamblades are unkillable, they are too strong due to incap and fear but they still die in one warden burst.
I guess that's why you see many more stamsorcs than magsorcs and that no one is playing magplar because stamplar is king and don't forget about the devastating armies of stamdks and the single magdk who dies in one second.
The only good stamclasses are warden and nb and both of them are due to being overbuffed and access to too powerful abilities.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.
You now have to outplay a medium armor build to kill them, much like they have to do to you. You have to hit the Fissure before the rest of the combo so that he’s CC’ed and his dodge roll is canceled, similar to using DBoS for the same reason. You can still always just run stam poisons and they’ll run dry after an application or two.
What exactly does a Stam NB have to worry the F about?
Outplay is laughable.
Stam NB was already in a great spot with Stam armor and cloak, now it's even better.
Anyone whom thinks magicka has any advantage over Stam is just biased or stupid
Storm + Racer is literally a guarantee win against any stamblade(non dueling spec) right now, it doesn’t even require you to land fissure. After patch Storm+Combo will still be lethal but you’ll need to land the Fissure CC1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.
You now have to outplay a medium armor build to kill them, much like they have to do to you. You have to hit the Fissure before the rest of the combo so that he’s CC’ed and his dodge roll is canceled, similar to using DBoS for the same reason. You can still always just run stam poisons and they’ll run dry after an application or two.
What exactly does a Stam NB have to worry the F about?
Outplay is laughable.
Stam NB was already in a great spot with Stam armor and cloak, now it's even better.
Anyone whom thinks magicka has any advantage over Stam is just biased or stupid
Storm + Racer is literally a guarantee win against any stamblade(non dueling spec) right now, it doesn’t even require you to land fissure. After patch Storm+Combo will still be lethal but you’ll need to land the Fissure CC
And what no dueling spec are you facing open world that let you stay in range for that? Oh a potato3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.
You now have to outplay a medium armor build to kill them, much like they have to do to you. You have to hit the Fissure before the rest of the combo so that he’s CC’ed and his dodge roll is canceled, similar to using DBoS for the same reason. You can still always just run stam poisons and they’ll run dry after an application or two.
What exactly does a Stam NB have to worry the F about?
Outplay is laughable.
Stam NB was already in a great spot with Stam armor and cloak, now it's even better.
Anyone whom thinks magicka has any advantage over Stam is just biased or stupid
The same things but they can cloak in between? It's not like stamblades are unkillable, they are too strong due to incap and fear but they still die in one warden burst.
I guess that's why you see many more stamsorcs than magsorcs and that no one is playing magplar because stamplar is king and don't forget about the devastating armies of stamdks and the single magdk who dies in one second.
The only good stamclasses are warden and nb and both of them are due to being overbuffed and access to too powerful abilities.
Two superior classes are more than enough to destroy any balance, hell just one is enough, there's absolutely no reason to play Magden for any reason over any other class1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.
You now have to outplay a medium armor build to kill them, much like they have to do to you. You have to hit the Fissure before the rest of the combo so that he’s CC’ed and his dodge roll is canceled, similar to using DBoS for the same reason. You can still always just run stam poisons and they’ll run dry after an application or two.
What exactly does a Stam NB have to worry the F about?
Outplay is laughable.
Stam NB was already in a great spot with Stam armor and cloak, now it's even better.
Anyone whom thinks magicka has any advantage over Stam is just biased or stupid
The same things but they can cloak in between? It's not like stamblades are unkillable, they are too strong due to incap and fear but they still die in one warden burst.
I guess that's why you see many more stamsorcs than magsorcs and that no one is playing magplar because stamplar is king and don't forget about the devastating armies of stamdks and the single magdk who dies in one second.
The only good stamclasses are warden and nb and both of them are due to being overbuffed and access to too powerful abilities.
Two superior classes are more than enough to destroy any balance, hell just one is enough, there's absolutely no reason to play Magden for any reason over any other class
I want both of the classes nerfed but magden is one of the best classes behind stamnb and warden.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And why am I upset?
Not because it's dodgeable alone, the fact that they did absolutely nothing to help in PvE nor compensate for the change.
It's just plain worse - not different, just worse.
Could they have tweaked an artic wind morph?
Added an effect?
Reduced ability costs?
Of course, but no, ah hell no
But I suppose I should be happy that mSorc is no longer the worst PvP class0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.
You now have to outplay a medium armor build to kill them, much like they have to do to you. You have to hit the Fissure before the rest of the combo so that he’s CC’ed and his dodge roll is canceled, similar to using DBoS for the same reason. You can still always just run stam poisons and they’ll run dry after an application or two.
On live it’s virtually impossible for a medium build to recover from a magden’s burst because you can keep so much pressure up that goes through their main defense. The only counter to racer is very costly in medium and sill doesn’t counter fissure
Or just pop permafrost 0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »And why am I upset?
Not because it's dodgeable alone, the fact that they did absolutely nothing to help in PvE nor compensate for the change.
It's just plain worse - not different, just worse.
Could they have tweaked an artic wind morph?
Added an effect?
Reduced ability costs?
Of course, but no, ah hell no
But I suppose I should be happy that mSorc is no longer the worst PvP class
When was this golden time when magsorc was on the bottom? Please tell me, if you think it's right now sorry, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar want to have a talk with you2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »And why am I upset?
Not because it's dodgeable alone, the fact that they did absolutely nothing to help in PvE nor compensate for the change.
It's just plain worse - not different, just worse.
Could they have tweaked an artic wind morph?
Added an effect?
Reduced ability costs?
Of course, but no, ah hell no
But I suppose I should be happy that mSorc is no longer the worst PvP class
When was this golden time when magsorc was on the bottom? Please tell me, if you think it's right now sorry, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar want to have a talk with you
Nothzing that's stamina can be bottom purely because of available sets that are OP0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »And why am I upset?
Not because it's dodgeable alone, the fact that they did absolutely nothing to help in PvE nor compensate for the change.
It's just plain worse - not different, just worse.
Could they have tweaked an artic wind morph?
Added an effect?
Reduced ability costs?
Of course, but no, ah hell no
But I suppose I should be happy that mSorc is no longer the worst PvP class
When was this golden time when magsorc was on the bottom? Please tell me, if you think it's right now sorry, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar want to have a talk with you
Nothzing that's stamina can be bottom purely because of available sets that are OP
The opness of those sets isn't enough to push those classes above magsorc performance.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »And why am I upset?
Not because it's dodgeable alone, the fact that they did absolutely nothing to help in PvE nor compensate for the change.
It's just plain worse - not different, just worse.
Could they have tweaked an artic wind morph?
Added an effect?
Reduced ability costs?
Of course, but no, ah hell no
But I suppose I should be happy that mSorc is no longer the worst PvP class
When was this golden time when magsorc was on the bottom? Please tell me, if you think it's right now sorry, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar want to have a talk with you
Nothzing that's stamina can be bottom purely because of available sets that are OP
The opness of those sets isn't enough to push those classes above magsorc performance.
Quite simply, this is where we disagree. And I sincerely doubt either one of us will convince the other of any different.2 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.
You now have to outplay a medium armor build to kill them, much like they have to do to you. You have to hit the Fissure before the rest of the combo so that he’s CC’ed and his dodge roll is canceled, similar to using DBoS for the same reason. You can still always just run stam poisons and they’ll run dry after an application or two.
What exactly does a Stam NB have to worry the F about?
Outplay is laughable.
Stam NB was already in a great spot with Stam armor and cloak, now it's even better.
Anyone whom thinks magicka has any advantage over Stam is just biased or stupid
Storm + Racer is literally a guarantee win against any stamblade(non dueling spec) right now, it doesn’t even require you to land fissure. After patch Storm+Combo will still be lethal but you’ll need to land the Fissure CC
And what no dueling spec are you facing open world that let you stay in range for that? Oh a potato
I have major expedition and a snare. I have a huge cone of damage and if they get towards the edge of it then it’s easier to land and the racer hits harder.Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.
You now have to outplay a medium armor build to kill them, much like they have to do to you. You have to hit the Fissure before the rest of the combo so that he’s CC’ed and his dodge roll is canceled, similar to using DBoS for the same reason. You can still always just run stam poisons and they’ll run dry after an application or two.
On live it’s virtually impossible for a medium build to recover from a magden’s burst because you can keep so much pressure up that goes through their main defense. The only counter to racer is very costly in medium and sill doesn’t counter fissure
Or just pop permafrost
TruthWaffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »And why am I upset?
Not because it's dodgeable alone, the fact that they did absolutely nothing to help in PvE nor compensate for the change.
It's just plain worse - not different, just worse.
Could they have tweaked an artic wind morph?
Added an effect?
Reduced ability costs?
Of course, but no, ah hell no
But I suppose I should be happy that mSorc is no longer the worst PvP class
When was this golden time when magsorc was on the bottom? Please tell me, if you think it's right now sorry, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar want to have a talk with you
Nothzing that's stamina can be bottom purely because of available sets that are OP
The opness of those sets isn't enough to push those classes above magsorc performance.
Quite simply, this is where we disagree. And I sincerely doubt either one of us will convince the other of any different.
But stam DK is wild garbage0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.
You now have to outplay a medium armor build to kill them, much like they have to do to you. You have to hit the Fissure before the rest of the combo so that he’s CC’ed and his dodge roll is canceled, similar to using DBoS for the same reason. You can still always just run stam poisons and they’ll run dry after an application or two.
What exactly does a Stam NB have to worry the F about?
Outplay is laughable.
Stam NB was already in a great spot with Stam armor and cloak, now it's even better.
Anyone whom thinks magicka has any advantage over Stam is just biased or stupid
Storm + Racer is literally a guarantee win against any stamblade(non dueling spec) right now, it doesn’t even require you to land fissure. After patch Storm+Combo will still be lethal but you’ll need to land the Fissure CC
And what no dueling spec are you facing open world that let you stay in range for that? Oh a potato
I have major expedition and a snare. I have a huge cone of damage and if they get towards the edge of it then it’s easier to land and the racer hits harder.Each to his own, I'd say. I tend to view birds change in conjunction with the other changes to "help" dodge and from a mag warden perspective, and on the basis of stam warden issue in pvp.
Most posters view it differently and reduce it to "eat this, you bird spammer, git gud". Fair enough.
I guess we'll talk in a couple months again and see the actual effects. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and we will not have, in this place, a bunch of magicka players full of schadenfreude about the stam nerfs to curb the emergent era of dodge.
You now have to outplay a medium armor build to kill them, much like they have to do to you. You have to hit the Fissure before the rest of the combo so that he’s CC’ed and his dodge roll is canceled, similar to using DBoS for the same reason. You can still always just run stam poisons and they’ll run dry after an application or two.
On live it’s virtually impossible for a medium build to recover from a magden’s burst because you can keep so much pressure up that goes through their main defense. The only counter to racer is very costly in medium and sill doesn’t counter fissure
Or just pop permafrost
TruthWaffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »And why am I upset?
Not because it's dodgeable alone, the fact that they did absolutely nothing to help in PvE nor compensate for the change.
It's just plain worse - not different, just worse.
Could they have tweaked an artic wind morph?
Added an effect?
Reduced ability costs?
Of course, but no, ah hell no
But I suppose I should be happy that mSorc is no longer the worst PvP class
When was this golden time when magsorc was on the bottom? Please tell me, if you think it's right now sorry, stamsorc, stamdk and stamplar want to have a talk with you
Nothzing that's stamina can be bottom purely because of available sets that are OP
The opness of those sets isn't enough to push those classes above magsorc performance.
Quite simply, this is where we disagree. And I sincerely doubt either one of us will convince the other of any different.
But stam DK is wild garbage
No one should be in range without A. Bursting you to death in 2 GCDs during your CC break
Or B LoS with a way out
A magden with it's 28m range shouldn't kill an intelligent NB or Sorc.
Ok maybe Stam DK is an outlier... Maybe, though any Stam class just can use the 2H line and be good. (Gap closer, CC, HoT, burst and execute)
I can't remember the last time I died to a magden, and that's before this change2 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TO ALL MAGDENS:
If birds are so bad vs pulse, why would you want to change the delay. Wouldn't it just be a worse copy of pulse? Both unreflectable, both dodgable, but one provides the added effects of destro.
Why do wardens run both. I'll give you a hint. Delayed burst.
They ran both because it's literally the only way to fill your bar
Edit: that burst combo was good against pros for about the first two weeks, after that only potatoes die to it
I'm guessing you mean passives. But surely something else can fit the bill. And I am pretty sure that is same with all burst combos. ProvPro is decided by who makes the mistake first. My burst on sorcs can be avoided, same on my DK, same on warden, same on NB. It shouldn't require mechanic skipping abilities to work. Which is why I am all for powerlash being dodgable, for example.
You talk a lot about magWarden. What's the character name of yours on PC EU. You seem to be an expert on the class, so you might can give mine some tips, great master of wisdom?
I don't play one, not going to pretend to, but I have played long enough to know that delayed burst is good, take sorc, and hard counters are for nubs who can't time or outplay. Seeing you in BGs with your premade and your tanky bird spam really tells me a lot
Look, thats what I thought - "tanky birdspam" without me having ever birds slotted... I think you are not in the position to comment on the class since your input seems to be based more on vague assumptions than actual observation or first-hand experience.
Not really played proper since new year, but I have 100% been birded by you before.
And if you don't slot it. Then why complain. If you are one of the wardens who slots it only for passives, because pulse is oh so better, then why complain?
Shalk is fine, trees are fine, dot is fine. Hell even the Defile can be dealt with. But bird is unreasonable as it was, and still provides a good burst setup. It's not like I have no exp of the class. I played it in early morrow, but due to lack of slots and having to have mag/stam of each class at diff race I rerolled an sdk.
You're trying to justify a nerf to a class you've never played because of zergs spamming a skill you've never used? Is that what I'm getting here?
Do you selectively choose comments that fit your silly ideas? I have played it in the morrow patch. I know how broken birds are vs dodge builds. If a non nb tried to roll away, they would get birdsspammed by me. Med doesn't really have much going for it.
And on the flip side, things should be balanced around openworld. That includes zergs. I.e. Soul assault, it was broken xv1 trash. Like bird. It now has a counter.
I have a question. I assume you think the power lash changes are fair. So do I. So what you you think of the bird changes. Because if you think undodgable is fine on a spammable but not a set up counterable ability, then you have some skewed perspective.
Fit my silly ideas? What "idea" did i give? I dont think i made a suggestion besides saying dodgable cliff racer isnt the solution to the lackluster offense the mag warden has....
The counter is to side step shalks so you aren't stunned. What ever happened to block? How about going offensive to put pressure on the warden? A stun maybe? LOS? SEEMS to be a L2P issue, not a dodge the birds issue.
Lackluster offense? You mean for PvE. Because making racer dodgable is exactly what was needed. That way they can recieve buffs without deleting med build further.
And block... My med armour stamsorc should stop and block, sacrificing mobility and get blasted by unblockable shalks. Nonono. A good warden will see the block snare and easily land shalks, would take more than a mere sidestep.
So if dodge is the counter to birds, what is the counter to dodge? Oh there is none now? Well, that's interesting. What's so annoying is the coming perma dodge roll meta that's coming. Wait and see.
so what is your opinion about heavy armor meta and what is going with it tanks meta on 95% stamina builds excluding only nb in last hmm...2 years?1