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Make Imperial City Sewers Great Again

BANK_IT_HERE
BANK_IT_HERE
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One of the all time favorite parts of this game for me is the sewers. What can we do to make them active again? The districts seem to stay pretty busy, and not always with zergs. So kudos to ZOS for adding something to draw attention. How many people who have been around this game since the early days remember how fun the sewers were for small scale fights? I would love for ZOS to make going in the sewers much more popular. Other than trying to farm the impossible-to-get skin from Bal, there is no necessity. I have spent hours leveling my character there in the past week without seeing anyone. In the past 6 months, every time I go in there, I can't find anyone. Perhaps just putting something in the sewers that is unique compared to the districts. Right now if people want tel var, they get in a group and kill district bosses. Who wants to the sewers to be great again?!
  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
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    Maybe add robust and arcane jewels to sets like black rose as was done with physic.
    Old good time when sewers were overpopulated coz new lvl cap mats seems wont return anyway.
  • HighKinlady
    HighKinlady
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    It is a little .. dead .. down there :)

    But in all seriousness I agree . The only time you see continuous activity is during double Televar events . Sure , you may not alway be alone down there . However , more times than not I can take my stam blade down each alliances sewers right up to their base and never come across anyone (in vivec, Xbox NA).
    XB NA
    High Kinlady
    For the Pact Covenant
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    Maybe add robust and arcane jewels to sets like black rose as was done with physic.
    Old good time when sewers were overpopulated coz new lvl cap mats seems wont return anyway.

    I mean I would like robust black rose, but that isnt the reason why Its not popular anymore, constution sucks, so does black rose.
    It was nerfed because blockcast was too strong. Now sustaining is much harder, they should just give life back to this awesome set.
    ZOS should revert the nerf black rose got back when constution was an insane passive.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on December 17, 2017 5:38PM
  • Apherius
    Apherius
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    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/327221/imperial-city-feedback-and-suggestions

    If you have some suggestions, please post them here.

    But it's ZOS choice, why would they work old DLC that people already bought , when they could work on future DLC and make money ?

    They just need to apply the Telvar bonus to the sewers, and make us able to buy gold mats even if this cost a lot of telvar, and buff the telvars that you get from mobs cause currently ( as I ) it's better to just farm boss alone.
    Edited by Apherius on December 17, 2017 5:45PM
  • geonsocal
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    sort of like the transmute cyrstals have helped invigorate cyrodiil - zos would need to add value to the tel var stones...
    PS4/NA (Cyro & IC): Vivec - This Must Be The Place...
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  • BANK_IT_HERE
    BANK_IT_HERE
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    Apherius wrote: »
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/327221/imperial-city-feedback-and-suggestions

    If you have some suggestions, please post them here.

    But it's ZOS choice, why would they work old DLC that people already bought , when they could work on future DLC and make money ?

    They just need to apply the Telvar bonus to the sewers, and make us able to buy gold mats even if this cost a lot of telvar, and buff the telvars that you get from mobs cause currently ( as I ) it's better to just farm boss alone.

    Very true. It's probably not priority, but they did add the district flags later on, which brought people into IC. Now we just need to find a reason to be down in the sewers.
  • T4T2FR34K
    T4T2FR34K
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    All kinds of stuff, really good stuff, can be found in sewers (ever lose a diamond in the sink)...as such, I would like to see the sewers and telvar stones used for crafting and/or trait changing and/or upgrading...jewelry...
    If I ain't doing what I'm supposed to do,
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  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    The Imperial City DLC has always appealed to a small amount of players: that rare breed that likes to mix PVP and PVE. Most players prefer to do one or the other, either mostly PVP in which case there are more reliable fights in Cyrodiil/Battlegrounds or mostly PVE in which case there's a lot more reliable fights in overland questing without the risk of being ganked.

    So, common solutions:
    A. Add rewards to attract more PVEers
    B. Attach IC to the Cyrodiil campigns in a tangible way to attract more PVPers
    C. Detach IC from Cyrodiil campaigns

    Adding additional rewards to the sewers or the Imperial City in general is effective at bringing PVEers and PVPers to the zone. We see this every year with the anniversary event though there may be a limited time only effect there as well. However, adding new gear rewards means ZOS has to balance those. This also isn't a sustainable solution since its essentially the same as the DLC is currently, we're just hoping that extra rewards will bring in more players that will stay this time. Alchemy bags didn't do it, special items and gear and runes didn't do it. So adding rewards is more of a boom-bust cycle than a sustainable solution in my opinion.

    Attaching IC to Cyrodiil campaigns has a couple of major hurdles. 1. Its not a base game update, its a paid DLC. ZOS would have to make IC part of the base game in order to avoid pay-to-win except that people bought IC as a DLC. 2. The PVP content in Imperial City is not as objective based as Cyrodiil since its geared more towards small-scale fighting. A district in Imperial City has less Alliance Guards than a resource in Cyrodiil. So Imperial City would need a LOT of upgrading and changes to be a worthy addition to a competitive Cyrodiil campaign.

    I support detaching Imperial City from Cyrodiil because that way the transit (riding from your nearest keep) is not a factor in keeping people from going to the zone. However, I do think there would need to be three instances of Imperial City. No CP, CP, and below level 50 to account for the 3 types of PVP currently available. This concentrates the population of players, still provides everyone their preferred PVP environment, and removes one of the biggest hurdles to hopping into Imperial City for a quick farming session by making it possible to port directly there without a queue or having to hope your faction has a keep close to an entrance.
  • BANK_IT_HERE
    BANK_IT_HERE
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    The Imperial City DLC has always appealed to a small amount of players: that rare breed that likes to mix PVP and PVE.

    The sewers used to be very busy back when Cyrodiil was just more populated. Although I do enjoy both PVE and PVP, I go to the districts and sewers for small scale PVP. I usually hate open world Cyrodiil - full of zergs, whether my faction or another. The districts offer much smaller scale - often times not farming but just straight PVP. The districts used to be nothing but a way to go from your base to the sewers. But the sewers died with the addition of the district flags.
    Mayrael wrote: »
    Well IC and IC sewers are heaven just for one playstyle - ganking. Lots levels, lots of LoS options, its perfect area for NBs to gank and run, this is why new players are avoiding IC. Nobody likes to farm for a half of an hour and get killed to loose 15 minutes of playing without chance to fightback, the only execptions are NBs who don't risk anything and hardcore PvPers who are not afraid of gankers ;)

    I disagree, although yes, there are a lot of NBs down there...but they are everywhere. I don't feel the percentage is any higher down there. Yes, some people farming don't like the idea of getting ganked. But, I assume a combination of reduced people and district flags is the reason.
  • leeux
    leeux
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    Remove PvP from it? That would make the zone more active surely...
    /sarcasm


    EDIT: Not to be a complete trash post, I thought of a second thing to add.

    Remove IC from the Cyrodiil queue... or integrate it the Alliance War effort.

    THE only reason I don't go there (when I'm PvPing) is because I don't want to harm my faction by eating the pop cap and then not helping in the surface war.
    Edited by leeux on December 17, 2017 10:06PM
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  • Kolzki
    Kolzki
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    It might help if we could fast travel there.
  • Nelson_Rebel
    Nelson_Rebel
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    The sewers are a ganking NB’s dream home.


    This place is without a doubt the best possible location for the NB playstyle. Not very many people can survive a NB’s initial burst and it’s a frustrating experience when only experienced and powerful players can successfully counter Gankers.

    No one goes there because no one wants to deal with that crap other than opposing NB’s
    who just gank each other there.
    Edited by Nelson_Rebel on December 17, 2017 10:20PM
  • Kolzki
    Kolzki
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    The sewers are a ganking NB’s dream home.


    This place is without a doubt the best possible location for the NB playstyle. Not very many people can survive a NB’s initial burst and it’s a frustrating experience when only experienced and powerful players can successfully counter Gankers.

    No one goes there because no one wants to deal with that crap other than opposing NB’s
    who just gank each other there.

    Which is also quite off putting to us nightblades, being super squishy and all. You don't have to be a NB in IC to burst from crouch though.
  • Nelson_Rebel
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    Kolzki wrote: »
    The sewers are a ganking NB’s dream home.


    This place is without a doubt the best possible location for the NB playstyle. Not very many people can survive a NB’s initial burst and it’s a frustrating experience when only experienced and powerful players can successfully counter Gankers.

    No one goes there because no one wants to deal with that crap other than opposing NB’s
    who just gank each other there.

    Which is also quite off putting to us nightblades, being super squishy and all. You don't have to be a NB in IC to burst from crouch though.

    Correct, but no class is nearly as capable as hitting as hard from stealth and successfully executing within seconds or 1-2shots thanks to the incredibly powerful Ult that is also a : Gap closer, knowckdown, stun, major defile, minor beserk, and reduce damage of target. All in one convenient package cheap Ult.

    With any decent player, you will kill anyone with correct gear and skill setups, bar the occasional exceptional player who is capable of surviving, recovering, and countering. To manage all that after a NB’s burst skill setup is incredibly difficult to do for the other classes by design
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Kolzki wrote: »
    The sewers are a ganking NB’s dream home.


    This place is without a doubt the best possible location for the NB playstyle. Not very many people can survive a NB’s initial burst and it’s a frustrating experience when only experienced and powerful players can successfully counter Gankers.

    No one goes there because no one wants to deal with that crap other than opposing NB’s
    who just gank each other there.

    Which is also quite off putting to us nightblades, being super squishy and all. You don't have to be a NB in IC to burst from crouch though.

    Correct, but no class is nearly as capable as hitting as hard from stealth and successfully executing within seconds or 1-2shots thanks to the incredibly powerful Ult that is also a : Gap closer, knowckdown, stun, major defile, minor beserk, and reduce damage of target. All in one convenient package cheap Ult.

    With any decent player, you will kill anyone with correct gear and skill setups, bar the occasional exceptional player who is capable of surviving, recovering, and countering. To manage all that after a NB’s burst skill setup is incredibly difficult to do for the other classes by design

    Well, its entirely possible to survive, recover, and counter the average nightblade ganker. What is harder is doing so in the type of gear/build that people usually bring to farm tel var in Imperial City. Dealing with the PVE mobs in Imperial City in a timely manner doesn't exactly match up well with the builds that can take on gankers with no issues in Cyrodiil. Building for effective PVP and PVE in the same place limits the amount of players to those who actually want to deal with PVP in the middle of their PVE.
  • Draxys
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    Just don't make them great again until the pop is separate from Cyrodiil, so we don't have a giant group zerging bosses in the sewers whilst their faction can't defend because the pop is restricted by the sewers.
    2013

    rip decibel
  • tinythinker
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    I don't mind mixing PvE and PvP but there have to be trade-offs. The sewers were made for ganking because the devs thought people would want to do lots of hunting. But hunters tend to want to hunt prey, not other hunters. And there isn't much to lure in prey. That's what it all comes down to in the end.

    - If it is an item that is BoE prey will purchase it.
    - If it is an item that is BoP prey will get friends or a paid escort until they get what they want then won't return.
    - If it is an item that is BoP but that must be reacquired regularly prey will periodically return.
    - If it a fun/rewarding experience prey will find ways to regularly visit

    The last two types of lures are the only ones worth discussing if you want a sustainable boost to the sewer population. If you can combine the last two the sewers will thrive.

    The question is what you can offer prey to make the risk worth the reward. I am awful at 1v1 let alone 1v3 or 1v4. I am prey. I avoid the sewers. It's hard to think of something good enough to get me to go.

    Another things is giant blobs. Putting in suitable rewards to sustain a population of prey will likely lead to blob groups, which will draw bombers, which could destabilize the population again.

    A mechanic that rewards groups of 6-8 players being spread out over solo hunters or giant blobs would be best. So, only one group can get a reward if found, and only 6-8 players in a group would receive it. Now you have small groups spreading out to search the sewers. Some solo and duo hunters will still stalk prey but there would always be a risk of another small group or two coming around the corner and knocking them out while they are ganking.

    So, basically, if you want a sunstainable boost for the sewers try designing something like this:
    - add a hunt for something that only one group at a time can claim that spawns randomly in locations all over the sewers
    - make it so that only 6 or 7 or 8 players in a group will receive the item (buff, whatever) when found and claimed
    - make the experience of finding the mcguffin itself fun and cool (like clues about how to track it)
    - make the reward that drops something people will want to come back for regularly


    Other successful options/configurations are possible of course but as prey this is something that might get me to buy in.
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  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    Maybe add robust and arcane jewels to sets like black rose as was done with physic.
    Old good time when sewers were overpopulated coz new lvl cap mats seems wont return anyway.

    Yeah, Reactive Armor really needs Arcane jewelry, too.
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    The sewers were full of players when Willpower/Agility jewelry was desirable. These sets need to be buffed, and new sets need to be introduced.
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • Saint_Bud
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    Only good for telvar farming at the time. There isnt a set that player really want in there. Also the telvar gain needs to be changed. Player should not lose there stones when they get killed, because stones are the reasons for whar they are there. It will also good if for emp the districts flags are also needed or an other effect have on the campain.
    PVP Saint-Bud magicka Templar: AR 46
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  • greylox
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    Oh it's dead? Good news for PvEers like me that don't touch PvP with a bargepole, gonna give it a look tonight and hopefully get some quests done.

    I do feel for you PvP lot tho, there doesn't seem a lot for you to do.
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  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    The sewers were full of players when Willpower/Agility jewelry was desirable. These sets need to be buffed, and new sets need to be introduced.

    If you´ve a perfected asylum destrostaff as a magicka user Willpower is BiS :)
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  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Tel Vars are already very rewarding (plants and hakeijo) but its the risk that deters people. Imagine you farm tel vars for 10-20 minutes and most of the time you are attacked by ganking NB, healer/dd/tank duo/trio or small groups. 1v1 encounters on even terms are pretty rare. Don't get me wrong, I love IC and sewers as I love this risk/reward mechanic but most of newcomers don't, we can't please both. Maybe one random day each week with double drop rates, one with halved death penalities would attrackt some people and show them that its not as bad as they think ;)
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.

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  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Saint_Bud wrote: »
    Only good for telvar farming at the time. There isnt a set that player really want in there. Also the telvar gain needs to be changed. Player should not lose there stones when they get killed, because stones are the reasons for whar they are there. It will also good if for emp the districts flags are also needed or an other effect have on the campain.

    Tel Var gain and loss is the whole risk/reward of the sewers and the districts though. Its the mechanic that encourages PVP. If you gank farmers, you aren't just ganking for the thrill of it, you get Tel Var. If you are farming, you aren't just farming in an area where you could get ganked for no reason, you are getting TelVar that you can spend on shiny things.

    Removing Tel Var loss (they already lessened it to 50%) would remove most of the mechanic that encourages PVP in IC in the first place. If that's your goal, it would work, but it would also effectively neuter IC as a PVP zone that it was designed to be.
    Edited by VaranisArano on December 18, 2017 1:47PM
  • JerzeeDevil
    JerzeeDevil
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    Those District Flags ruined Imperial City. Period.
    jerzeedevil.com

    If looks could kill, then Death would be my name.

  • BANK_IT_HERE
    BANK_IT_HERE
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    The sewers were full of players when Willpower/Agility jewelry was desirable. These sets need to be buffed, and new sets need to be introduced.

    This was a big reason back in the day.
    Saint_Bud wrote: »
    Only good for telvar farming at the time. There isnt a set that player really want in there. Also the telvar gain needs to be changed. Player should not lose there stones when they get killed, because stones are the reasons for whar they are there. It will also good if for emp the districts flags are also needed or an other effect have on the campain.

    Not sure about this. I like it to a degree. I love going after people wearing Imperial Physique. Also, if you don't lose any stones, it takes away some of the type of PVP offered there. That said, I didn't like losing 80% of your stones to another player back in the day, but also don't agree with 50% for both player AND npc now. It used to be 80/20 I think. You shouldn't lose 50% to an npc.
    greylox wrote: »
    Oh it's dead? Good news for PvEers like me that don't touch PvP with a bargepole, gonna give it a look tonight and hopefully get some quests done.

    I do feel for you PvP lot tho, there doesn't seem a lot for you to do.

    Well, be careful. I can't guarantee nobody will find you. haha. After a couple of hours, I still ended up get both opposing alliances near my base. I was there for general grinding...tel var was a bonus. So I didn't care if I lost my stones. But chances are much greater at not running into other alliances like it used to be.
    I don't mind mixing PvE and PvP but there have to be trade-offs. The sewers were made for ganking because the devs thought people would want to do lots of hunting. But hunters tend to want to hunt prey, not other hunters. And there isn't much to lure in prey. That's what it all comes down to in the end.

    - If it is an item that is BoE prey will purchase it.
    - If it is an item that is BoP prey will get friends or a paid escort until they get what they want then won't return.
    - If it is an item that is BoP but that must be reacquired regularly prey will periodically return.
    - If it a fun/rewarding experience prey will find ways to regularly visit

    As someone else mentioned, Agility and Willpower were big draws at one time. The alchemy and Hakejos have some relevance. The alchemy packs did add some people coming back, along with district flags. But you are right, there needs to be a sustainable reason to bring farmers or other small scale groups. I have one friend who had the idea of adding gold mats for tel var purchase. It would have to be fairly expensive so it doesn't ruin the market, but perhaps an idea. It's sustainable, and most everybody needs those.

    Edited by BANK_IT_HERE on December 18, 2017 3:28PM
  • BANK_IT_HERE
    BANK_IT_HERE
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    Those District Flags ruined Imperial City. Period.

    But it was dead before. How do you think IC was ruined by them?
  • JamieAubrey
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    They do, every year for the IC event
    -PC/EU/AD-
    CP 1000

    Former Empress Vex Valentino - Lvl 50 MagSorc - AvA 44
    Vex Valentino V - Lvl 50 MagPlar - AvA 21
    Growls-at-the-Badger - Lvl 50 MagDen - AvA 17
    Streaks into Load Screens - Lvl 50 StamSorc - AvA 18
    Warden Antivirus - Lvl 50 StamDen - AvA 8
    Vèx Valentino - Lvl 50 MagBlade - AvA 2


    You might know me as the guy that complains EVERYDAY in TF Vivec at AD
    In Game/Twitter DRaGoN_KoBRa
    7/7/17 The Day I was Banned on the ESO Forums

  • DeadlyRecluse
    DeadlyRecluse
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    Any attempt to reinvigorate IC through better itemization/tel var rewards is temporary at best, imo.

    It's pretty good for what it is. Districts are more consistent, but it's fun to mess around in the sewers, too. I'd just like if they added it to the base game (made it free) on the next anniversary so more people have access--would help keep it a little more consistent.
    Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub
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