Make Imperial City Sewers Great Again

Vanthras79

IC should have more of an incentive-- we need some fresh ideads from Wheeler. What about chances of getting some imperial city furnishings or something?

(Sotha Sil never finishes his projects neither, he just moves on starts another project. It sounds like you want to be talking to a clockwork apostle. )

Autumnhart

Does anybody play for fun, or are you all just in it for the stuff? The stuff will never be good enough to hold people who could move on to the newer, shinier thing, with new and improved stuff.

The IC "event" brought a lot of farmers to Imperial City. They didn't want to PVP, they just wanted drops. And now they're gone again, and good riddance. That solution is not going to re-invigorate IC PVP.

Emma_Overload

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

JerzeeDevil wrote: »

Those District Flags ruined Imperial City. Period.

But it was dead before. How do you think IC was ruined by them?

Along with the other changes that were made when the flags were introduced, the flags killed the HUGE three way deathmatches that were happening during peak hours in Memorial and Arboretum districts. The problem with the flags is that the devs made it so that you could only respawn in a district if your faction held the flag. LOL, what a terrible decision. When are the devs going to learn that players hate loading screens and and lengthy trips back to battle?

JerzeeDevil

Emma_Overload wrote: »

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

JerzeeDevil wrote: »

Those District Flags ruined Imperial City. Period.

But it was dead before. How do you think IC was ruined by them?

Along with the other changes that were made when the flags were introduced, the flags killed the HUGE three way deathmatches that were happening during peak hours in Memorial and Arboretum districts. The problem with the flags is that the devs made it so that you could only respawn in a district if your faction held the flag. LOL, what a terrible decision. When are the devs going to learn that players hate loading screens and and lengthy trips back to battle?

VERY MUCH this...

In Skull of Corruption on NA, PS4 it was The Arena District. Good times, fond memories.

Losing 1/2 of your Tel Var to all enemies probably helped kill it, too.

ol_BANK_lo

Emma_Overload wrote: »

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

JerzeeDevil wrote: »

Those District Flags ruined Imperial City. Period.

But it was dead before. How do you think IC was ruined by them?

Along with the other changes that were made when the flags were introduced, the flags killed the HUGE three way deathmatches that were happening during peak hours in Memorial and Arboretum districts. The problem with the flags is that the devs made it so that you could only respawn in a district if your faction held the flag. LOL, what a terrible decision. When are the devs going to learn that players hate loading screens and and lengthy trips back to battle?

Yeah, it did end immediate respawning to get back to fight, but that was mostly dead anyway. The whole purpose of the devs putting the flags in was because people complained that IC was dead. So they added flags and the alchemy packs. So the districts are sustainable to some degree for smaller scale. But the sewers are totally dead.

ol_BANK_lo

JerzeeDevil wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

JerzeeDevil wrote: »

Those District Flags ruined Imperial City. Period.

But it was dead before. How do you think IC was ruined by them?

Along with the other changes that were made when the flags were introduced, the flags killed the HUGE three way deathmatches that were happening during peak hours in Memorial and Arboretum districts. The problem with the flags is that the devs made it so that you could only respawn in a district if your faction held the flag. LOL, what a terrible decision. When are the devs going to learn that players hate loading screens and and lengthy trips back to battle?

VERY MUCH this...

In Skull of Corruption on NA, PS4 it was The Arena District. Good times, fond memories.

Losing 1/2 of your Tel Var to all enemies probably helped kill it, too.

Yeah, Xbox NA was also Arena. But see my comment above. I think the big fights were long over anyway. Flags were introduced to bring some PVP back to IC. I agree 50% is too much to lose, at least on NPC. I'm okay with it on a player level. It continues to be another reason to PVP down there, especially against Imperial Physique people.

VaranisArano

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

JerzeeDevil wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

JerzeeDevil wrote: »

Those District Flags ruined Imperial City. Period.

But it was dead before. How do you think IC was ruined by them?

Along with the other changes that were made when the flags were introduced, the flags killed the HUGE three way deathmatches that were happening during peak hours in Memorial and Arboretum districts. The problem with the flags is that the devs made it so that you could only respawn in a district if your faction held the flag. LOL, what a terrible decision. When are the devs going to learn that players hate loading screens and and lengthy trips back to battle?

VERY MUCH this...

In Skull of Corruption on NA, PS4 it was The Arena District. Good times, fond memories.

Losing 1/2 of your Tel Var to all enemies probably helped kill it, too.

Yeah, Xbox NA was also Arena. But see my comment above. I think the big fights were long over anyway. Flags were introduced to bring some PVP back to IC. I agree 50% is too much to lose, at least on NPC. I'm okay with it on a player level. It continues to be another reason to PVP down there, especially against Imperial Physique people.

The problem with losing less Tel Var to an NPC is that NPCs then become a convenient way to bloodport back to your base as long as you take a small loss. That's one of the reasons why ZOS made it 50/50.

It would also kill most sewer play. As it is, if you are farming in the districts, you are forced to spend some time in the sewers to get back to your home base (unless you buy the Sigil of Imperial Retreat).

Saint_Bud

VaranisArano wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

Only good for telvar farming at the time. There isnt a set that player really want in there. Also the telvar gain needs to be changed. Player should not lose there stones when they get killed, because stones are the reasons for whar they are there. It will also good if for emp the districts flags are also needed or an other effect have on the campain.

Tel Var gain and loss is the whole risk/reward of the sewers and the districts though. Its the mechanic that encourages PVP. If you gank farmers, you aren't just ganking for the thrill of it, you get Tel Var. If you are farming, you aren't just farming in an area where you could get ganked for no reason, you are getting TelVar that you can spend on shiny things.

Removing Tel Var loss (they already lessened it to 50%) would remove most of the mechanic that encourages PVP in IC in the first place. If that's your goal, it would work, but it would also effectively neuter IC as a PVP zone that it was designed to be.

I not mean that there should no telvar gain for pvp kills. I think like a 5k stone gain from a kill would be good number. You mean that geting telvar from kills is a base mechanic for ic. But the problem is that there are not enouth people there. Also the only good way to farm stones is to kill bosses. Thats moastly done by good groups with imperial phisic set.

I like the city and pvp, but why i should farm stones to buy alchemy stuff or hakejos (sets are useless at the moment) to do pve raids, when i just farm gold easy with no risk on other places with the same speed?

ol_BANK_lo

Saint_Bud wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

Only good for telvar farming at the time. There isnt a set that player really want in there. Also the telvar gain needs to be changed. Player should not lose there stones when they get killed, because stones are the reasons for whar they are there. It will also good if for emp the districts flags are also needed or an other effect have on the campain.

Tel Var gain and loss is the whole risk/reward of the sewers and the districts though. Its the mechanic that encourages PVP. If you gank farmers, you aren't just ganking for the thrill of it, you get Tel Var. If you are farming, you aren't just farming in an area where you could get ganked for no reason, you are getting TelVar that you can spend on shiny things.

Removing Tel Var loss (they already lessened it to 50%) would remove most of the mechanic that encourages PVP in IC in the first place. If that's your goal, it would work, but it would also effectively neuter IC as a PVP zone that it was designed to be.

I not mean that there should no telvar gain for pvp kills. I think like a 5k stone gain from a kill would be good number. You mean that geting telvar from kills is a base mechanic for ic. But the problem is that there are not enouth people there. Also the only good way to farm stones is to kill bosses. Thats moastly done by good groups with imperial phisic set.

I like the city and pvp, but why i should farm stones to buy alchemy stuff or hakejos (sets are useless at the moment) to do pve raids, when i just farm gold easy with no risk on other places with the same speed?

Did you used to spend time in the sewers? If so, what brought you there? Yes, I sometimes buy hakejos for my tank, and yes I spend tel var on alchemy. But I've only ever farmed bosses twice. I go to the districts and sewers for small scale PVP. I hate open world Cyrodiil. Huge areas of zergs is not appealing to me. The point of this post is to find out what brought people there before, and what would bring people back? Perhaps the sewers have their own separate reward from the districts? I don't know. Perhaps better rewards from the tel var merchant? But people would still farm the district bosses, so....

I_killed_Vivec

Some people (gankers) are never happy... I can remember when people complained that it was too full, with zerg trains trashing everything in sight

The problem is precisely as expressed in some other posts - PvP players want PvE "prey". Easy kills with easy rewards. Not too surprisingly many PvE players object to being seen as live entertainment for PvPers, and so are reluctant to join in.

Can't blame 'em really...

And I can't really see a way of enticing them in. Giving lucrative, exclusive rewards will only cause upset as PvEers will point to the Golden Vendor making sets available for PvPers without them having to PvE. So why not something similar for people who don't want to PvP?

ol_BANK_lo

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Some people (gankers) are never happy... I can remember when people complained that it was too full, with zerg trains trashing everything in sight

The problem is precisely as expressed in some other posts - PvP players want PvE "prey". Easy kills with easy rewards. Not too surprisingly many PvE players object to being seen as live entertainment for PvPers, and so are reluctant to join in.

Can't blame 'em really...

And I can't really see a way of enticing them in. Giving lucrative, exclusive rewards will only cause upset as PvEers will point to the Golden Vendor making sets available for PvPers without them having to PvE. So why not something similar for people who don't want to PvP?

I laughed out loud reading this..."seen as live entertainment". lmao. But true. I am one of those who really enjoy both PVE and PVP content. And yes, I have many times looked for farming prey down there over the years. But there used to be many people running down in the sewers who were like me - just a few people looking for small scale PVP. We had some epic battles, and some on-going rivalries. Finding less skilled players farming often times was just icing on the cake. Would I like them down there. Absolutely. But I also want small scaled good players like there are in the districts.

Malmai

Yea Sewers were fun...

MasterSpatula

Shush, you'll ruin my farming.

I'm only half-kidding.

Kolzki

I think 'PvP players want PvE "prey"' is about right, or at least that's the image a lot of PVE players see.

Imperial City has a reputation for being full of hardcore pvp players, which I think puts off a lot of casual players or regular PVE players and keeps the population low. If people want to farm tel var there's also an expectation that a CP690 pro in golded out pvp gear is going to wipe out all their work. I think a lot of players see it the same way as they see vMA - basically really unforgiving and for die hard players. It's a shame that many players don't experience IC - it's really unique and the story is awesome.

A few other thoughts... the imperial city jewlery that everyone used to be there to farm is now cheap from guild stores (at least on PC EU) and drops from undaunted daily dungeons. Black Rose isn't so good now so isn't farmed. I do still need to complete my powerful assault set though, so I'll be back to get that.

Attunable crafting stations have taken away the need to visit IC to craft sets (and Armour Master has just been nerfed by the recent changes to armour skill requirements) - my guilds have crafting stations for all of the IC sets.

As a disclaimer, I mainly PVE these days but used to do a lot of PVP and still drop into PVP now and then. I go into cyrodil knowing that getting killed is part of the experience and quite enjoy getting stomped by a good player or coordinated team - it's actually a good way to learn how to be better. I find that the tel var mechanic in imperial city takes a lot of the fun out of recieving that awesome stomping.

Contraptions

I don't mind PVP or PVE or even a mix of both. What I do mind is the loss of TV on death in IC and the sewers. It's just personal preference but I generally don't like systems where it is possible to lose progress. Time is precious after all.

They should have just made TV a currency similar to AP, where each kill of a mob or a player in IC grants you some TV. The very fact that Cyrodiil is often crowded while IC is dead points to something fundamentally wrong with IC gameplay that puts many people off. The zone has been out for two years and has yet to find solid ground or a stable player base. They've even tried to increase TV value with the polymorphs and alchemy bags; but I feel ZOS is trying to treat the symptoms instead of the cause here.

jakeedmundson

In order to make something great AGAIN... it needed to be great in the first place.

HINT - it was never great.

IC update was either AT the time or around the time when they raised the VR level from 14 to 16.
VR16 gear needed TEN times the number of mats to make each piece (15 to 150ish)
The only way to really get mats was to farm sewers for tel var. Alternative was decon'ing trash which only netted you ONE piece at a time. Garbage idea.

so... major bullet points here

- pay wall for better gear (had to get IC to earn mats faster)
- forced pvp for pve players
- Gank city. Nothing fun about losing everything you're trying to earn because some coward with a one-shot build is hiding around the corner.

ol_BANK_lo

jakeedmundson wrote: »

In order to make something great AGAIN... it needed to be great in the first place.

HINT - it was never great.

IC update was either AT the time or around the time when they raised the VR level from 14 to 16.
VR16 gear needed TEN times the number of mats to make each piece (15 to 150ish)
The only way to really get mats was to farm sewers for tel var. Alternative was decon'ing trash which only netted you ONE piece at a time. Garbage idea.

so... major bullet points here

- pay wall for better gear (had to get IC to earn mats faster)
- forced pvp for pve players
- Gank city. Nothing fun about losing everything you're trying to earn because some coward with a one-shot build is hiding around the corner.

Many people would disagree that it wasn't great at one time. Hence the thread. But to each their own.

jakeedmundson

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

In order to make something great AGAIN... it needed to be great in the first place.

HINT - it was never great.

IC update was either AT the time or around the time when they raised the VR level from 14 to 16.
VR16 gear needed TEN times the number of mats to make each piece (15 to 150ish)
The only way to really get mats was to farm sewers for tel var. Alternative was decon'ing trash which only netted you ONE piece at a time. Garbage idea.

so... major bullet points here

- pay wall for better gear (had to get IC to earn mats faster)
- forced pvp for pve players
- Gank city. Nothing fun about losing everything you're trying to earn because some coward with a one-shot build is hiding around the corner.

Many people would disagree that it wasn't great at one time. Hence the thread. But to each their own.

"Many people" still think crown crates are a great deal.
"Many people" thought morrowind was worth $40.

but yes, you're right... to each their own.