Bladerunner1 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health. While we won’t be addressing these in this update, it’s something we’re exploring for the future.

I've always liked Power Extraction, am I the only one? Sure it's not as awesome to a Stamblade as Sap Essence is to a Magblade, but I think that's why the complaint threads came up in the first place, just people whining that their Stamblade can't heal like the Magblades who plow through hordes of mobs without the slightest blip to their health.

The skill is amazing, do I want a big AOE damaging skill close to the radius of steelnado while dealing approximately the same damage of steelnado while gaining major brutality while spending 30% less stamina? Yes please.

Any Stamblade who's going into a dungeon for the first time, or playing casually, or pugging has much to gain from this skill. It's on my "Cheap DPS" bar, I hardly ever use up power potions, and my optional 2-H build uses this for more AOE DPS.

It has less range than Steel Tornado, deals less damage most of the time (depends on target health) and isn't currently part of any PvE/PvP build for a reason.

If you want access to Major Brutality without using pots or 2H, Shrouded Daggers provides you way more AoE DPS and is actually a very good skill in PvP as well (3rd bounce of it deals more damage than a Surprise Attack), while costing only 10% more stamina (not that this matters for most builds).

What would you change it to? I think it would be bad for balance overall if Power Extraction simply outperformed Steel Tornado as an AoE DPS ability.

I would change it to something completely different. It's not like stamina builds lack any AoE (in fact, with vMA bow you usually don't even slot spammable AoE in Trials for example).

I'd like to see the stamina morph become a single target delayed heal (I believe ZOS actually stated they intend for Siphoning to become a "healing" skill line). Something like this:

Power Extraction
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Duration: X seconds
Cost: X stamina

Apply a ticking bomb on the enemy that deals Y damage after X seconds and heals you for Z. You may detonate the bomb earlier for less damage and healing.

Also grants you Major Brutality for 30 seconds.


Just an idea, anything really works as long as it's better than the current form (worst, most unreliable way of getting Major Brutality in game).

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@Bladerunner1 with all due respect to Jeckll (who's a fantastic player), I'm quite certain Shrouded Daggers would perform better in most situations.

There are edge cases where you're fighting 6 or more enemies where Power Extraction would possibly perform better, but those are too niche imo (and usually just steamrolled through as those are pretty much always trash mob encounters) to really warrant slotting Power Extraction. Most of the time you're better off with Shrouded Daggers.


Besides, designing skills so that they are only worth using as a new player significantly reduces build diversity at the top level, where things like min-maxing & even having a build start to matter.

Good skill design is designing skills that are fun to use and useful at all level ranges, especially in a game with extremely limited number of skills you can slot. Skills that aren't too similar to other skills (e.g. Steel Tornado).

The only reason I had for bringing this up was Wrobel's comment:

"We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health."

The sentence reeks of tanking. Think about it, they just took one "useless" nightblade skill and turned it into a "healing" skill.

We don't need them to take what you consider a useless skill and turned it into a "tanking" skill. 90% of the stamblade DPS playerbase has need of it in it's current form because shrouded daggers is so lame, it hits up to three targets if you aim at the furthest enemy, and the other two are standing within a 5meter end-to-end arrangement like dominos falling over. Aim at the middle enemy and you get two hits...it's lame.

Players without a Maelstrom bow have terrible AOE DPS, and more often than not they don't have power pots, and those players make up a majority of Stamblades.

Interesting. Do you have some concrete proof of those statistics or is that just an "estimation"?

I don't think I've ever seen anyone use this skill since it got changed to a stamina ability, I tested it out a couple of times & determined it was garbage and resulted in less DPS than Shrouded Daggers in almost all pug runs where I often cba to use potions.

I do agree though, changing this skill to a "tank ability" wouldn't be much of an "improvement"...

Well I tested shrouded daggers plenty of times and found it was garbage compared to Power Extraction. You can also pair that skill with any weapon you please, bow/bow, 2-H/bow, and outperform shrouded daggers and any other potion free method of gaining major brutality all day long. Stamblades are unique that way.

As for the Maelstrom arena bow assumption and crappy Stamblade AOE DPS, I'm going off the many pug runs I've joined, and the many guildies I've seen who struggle with their stamblades, and they far out number the ones who have a Maelstrom bow. You wouldn't notice this I guess if you were in a raiding guild.

How about if it deals 200% damage to targets above 65% health? It still scales to maximum health albeit slightly different. It also will fit the nb theme of siphon.

I like @DDuke 's idea of making power extraction a delayed dmg/heal. Would be a much needed stamina heal for nbs and lord knows the siphoning tree needs to offer more to stambuilds as it is currently.

Kolzki wrote: »

Please don't do anything dramatic to Power Extraction. Sure, it isn't as good for stam builds as Sap Essence is for magika, but it's great in non-meta situations. I slot Shrouded Daggers for situations needing higher burst against 3 or fewer people (PvP) and Power Extraction for normal dungeons. PE is also the only class AoE we have!

As for trials, sure if you're doing that you might have a Maestrom bow and not need a spamable AoE. Most don't have one though and do we really want to drop class skills because of a single low-chance drop item from the hardest solo content in the game?

how about PE apply minor main to target (5 secs) and gives caster major brutality (20 secs). this:

• fits the siphoning tree.
• gives nb tanks a tool to work with.

shinikaze wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Please don't do anything dramatic to Power Extraction. Sure, it isn't as good for stam builds as Sap Essence is for magika, but it's great in non-meta situations. I slot Shrouded Daggers for situations needing higher burst against 3 or fewer people (PvP) and Power Extraction for normal dungeons. PE is also the only class AoE we have!

As for trials, sure if you're doing that you might have a Maestrom bow and not need a spamable AoE. Most don't have one though and do we really want to drop class skills because of a single low-chance drop item from the hardest solo content in the game?

how about PE apply minor main to target (5 secs) and gives caster major brutality (20 secs). this:

• fits the siphoning tree.
• gives nb tanks a tool to work with.

Major main I would like better and give major brutality.

They make spectral bow need only 4 hits to proc again yet? Just gonna keep posting this hahahaha.

@ZOS_Wrobel thank you for looking at NBs, however as @Cellentel pointed out, what we Nightblade healers need (yes, we exist) to at least be competent is not more healing. In fact, I've been saying this in reddit for quite a long time: NBs healers right now have huge Heal numbers (even more than Templar, like for real). This can only mean we are overhealing (so we don't need even MORE healing). Here is a bit of what nightblade healers need (take it from a NB-healer main, who also does vet content). I do not PvP so my suggestions are not taking the impact over there, but since the new morphs seem healing-only oriented, then I will share my bit.

Refreshing path or Shadow Barrier: Healers need the Major Resolve/Ward to last for longer, even at the cost of Path's damage. A bit of a larger area would also be desirable in a Trial setting. These two, however, would just make us a Templar copy, so I'm ok if you decide to leave them as the are. The only buff I will be happy with is making the path visible enough for people to actually step on it (Look at the Templar's ritual, white, in contrast with the dim red we got).

Malevolent offering: I liked @Cellentel proposal, we need something to buff the group, not to heal it. I love minor mending, I really do because during a Trial you can only slot one siphoning ability most of the time, so 3% extra healing is not much. Why not make it a self-buff:

• Base: Sacrifice a flat amount of health (30%? 15%?) to gain minor mending for X seconds
• Healthy offering: Provides a shield for half the health spent and turns all the overhealing you do to yourself as healing for up to six people for the duration. For example if you overhealed 600, then 20-100 to each of the 6 people.
• Invigorating offering: Magicka spent is returned as the highest resource for up to 2/4 people, not counting yourself. For example if you spent 600 magicka, return 10-50 magicka or stamina to each of the 2/4 persons (whichever is higher).

Going with the name, "Malevolent Offering", I think the health cost is justified (plus NB-healing is about being a blood mage). Yet the numbers should be no higher than 30% of one's life (think trial healing, you designed them so we cant take those risks, it would feel unfair to do something against your own design). Also, you never offer make an "offering" just because. Hence, I think Minor mending should be its reward.

The first morph still provides a large heal. Changed the first morph to "healthy" in order to go with the reduced health cost (shield) but also now with the ability to siphon self-overhealing to the group. Changed the second morph's name to reflect its resource regeneration nature. I see the "Siphoning" fantasy as something slow, so I think returned amounts should be small yet continuous to reflect this.

I think the first morph would be harder to abuse. The second morph could be restricted to "health recovering abilities" if you don't want Magblades to abuse it; however, I don't see any dps sacrificing 1/3 of her health to gain minor mending, especially when the returned resources are not for herself.

Please for the love the game, do not make changes to Power Extraction that will scale to something other than max stamina or magicka for the other morph. Please don't destroy this skill.

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Would you consider changing the Shadow Barrier passive to just give 10 seconds of Major Ward/Resolve regardless of what armor you are using? or maybe make it give 10 secs of Minor Protection instead and move the major ward/resolve buffs to another skill.

I think this is the only class passive in the game that requires you to use a specific armor weight to get the full benefit of it and if you want to support multiple playstyles from 1 class the first place to start is with the passives.

Also this is not nightblade specific but changing passives like Hemorrhage and it's other classes versions to benefit both stam and mag users would be appreciated.(for example Hemorrhage would give minor savagery if your stam pool or weapon damage is higher and minor prophecy if your mag pool or spell damage is higher)

Actually it should give both, as it's a class skill.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health. While we won’t be addressing these in this update, it’s something we’re exploring for the future.

Please do not change the morph Sap Essence too much. I rely on this like my templar's Puncturing Sweep for AoE situations to heal some to survive being in melee range. If anything, it could use a buff to heal more as Puncturing Sweep does at lower target amounts(like the closest enemy thing puncturing sweep gets).

Sap Essence won't be changed in any way. It's a good skill that has a own role in the game.
PE in the other hand is a terrible skill that is outclassed by any other option you have on stamnb

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Would you consider changing the Shadow Barrier passive to just give 10 seconds of Major Ward/Resolve regardless of what armor you are using? or maybe make it give 10 secs of Minor Protection instead and move the major ward/resolve buffs to another skill.

I think this is the only class passive in the game that requires you to use a specific armor weight to get the full benefit of it and if you want to support multiple playstyles from 1 class the first place to start is with the passives.

Would this not reduce the skill for someone playing their NB in heavy armour and trying to tank? If you really want major ward/resolve up all the time you can always slot mighty chudan?

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Would you consider changing the Shadow Barrier passive to just give 10 seconds of Major Ward/Resolve regardless of what armor you are using? or maybe make it give 10 secs of Minor Protection instead and move the major ward/resolve buffs to another skill.

I think this is the only class passive in the game that requires you to use a specific armor weight to get the full benefit of it and if you want to support multiple playstyles from 1 class the first place to start is with the passives.

Would this not reduce the skill for someone playing their NB in heavy armour and trying to tank? If you really want major ward/resolve up all the time you can always slot mighty chudan?

Except every other class doesn't need to slot any equipment for the same buff from a guaranteed duration skill. They even made the templar version, which is a very small rune on the ground, last 8 seconds outside that rune to allow for moving a lot in and out and pretty much just crossing the rune every 8 seconds.
The nightblade option is the least user-friendly, and the skill of tanking has never been "compensating for clunky skills" and more about what to taunt when and when to use skills or block or interrupt, not to mention positioning.

the way nb gains Major resolve/ward is the best in the game. Stamnb has easily 100% uptime while using their main spammable. Magblade has a high uptime aswell without wasting a skill Slot if you really think that a buff for this ability is needed you have no idea how good the NB method is.

I don't think NB needs buffs at this point, especially not better passives - they have a lot if those anyway.

Sorry but some of the ideas here are ridiculous and I hope ZOS doesn't take drastic action on this class

A few skills need a bit of improving and I think the new heal was a bad idea

But there's no need to change the other passives

Zos cant balance a nb to save its life.

NB tanks too, but we NB's are getting some changes, and positive ones at that. I hope they are enough but there have been such massive ones over the last years, I doubt it but I will try them out. There is also reputation to repair. Whilst NB healers/tanks have a bad rep, they will never get into a trial no matter how good they actually are. I'll be glad when each skill line is split out into separate roles too, it will make the classes easier to balance. I hope it can be done in a way that retains individuality.