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Asylum Destro Staff 3.2.2
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casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Simple fix to make this not an utterly broken weapon and still retain PVE strength -
"Completing a fully charged heavy attack applies all Burning, Concussed, Chilled on the enemy with the next force pulse. This can happen once every 5 seconds."
+1
I would prefer this change as well. Its unlikely that we will get it this way, but this would certainly be more usable.
That would screw up wonderful rotations like this one. Half the reason I play magblade in PVE is so that I don't have to heavy attack very often as a regular part of my rotation.7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Now deactivate asylum weapons for cyrodiil please.
There is no reason to lock pvp best in slot weapons behind vet hardmode pve minitrials.
I think you are approaching the subject from an angle that is unacceptable to ZOS.
They want to make their new product appealing to both PvPers and PvErs to maximise the number of players that subscribe or purchase the DLC. Like they previously did with Maelstrom Arena, Monster Helms, Dragonstar Arena. They all had equipment that was at one time BiS for certain builds in PvP.
There is 0 chance they will make those sets only useful to PvE now. They might do that at a later date, in the same way they went with the vMA and vDSA weapon nerfs. Once they've sold as many copies of CWC as they could basically. I don't blame them, ultimately they need to be selling DLCs for the game to turn a profit and thus continue to exist.
I understand the argument that for the first time these weapons are locked behind a hard mode vet Trial and I agree that's terrible design because those are inaccessible to the vast majority of people. Not because of lack of skill or effort but because it requires a loooot of organisation to put repeated 12-person raids together.
The best way I can think of handling that is to massively decrease the benefit of Asylum to Perfect Asylum weapons. Which is the opposite of what they've just done with the staves.2h vs perfected 2h ~6.7% difference.
staff vs perfected staff 50% difference.
Well
Exactly, that the problem.
Suggestion:
- Asylum Destro: You have a 33% chance to apply all 3 status effects for 4 seconds when using Force Shock
- Perfect Asylum Destro: You have a 40% chance to apply all 3 status effects for 4 seconds when using Force Shock
That brings the difference on par with 2H.
Edited by Maulkin on October 3, 2017 1:55PMEU | PC | AD4 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Magblades can sustain 3 FP per rotation. Force Pulse pet sorcs can also sustain it (3 FP + 1 HA). The real problem is that they've reduced the potential uptime by TONS.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Simple fix to make this not an utterly broken weapon and still retain PVE strength -
"Completing a fully charged heavy attack applies all Burning, Concussed, Chilled on the enemy with the next force pulse. This can happen once every 5 seconds."
+1
I would prefer this change as well. Its unlikely that we will get it this way, but this would certainly be more usable.
That would screw up wonderful rotations like this one. Half the reason I play magblade in PVE is so that I don't have to heavy attack very often as a regular part of my rotation.
I'm not particularly thrilled with the heavy attack meta either, but its what we apparently have to deal with until the great Wizard of ZoS decides to bring in a new era...
A 3m dummy parse is still mostly a burst parse on a Magicka Nightblade though. As impressive as the 40K+ DPS is, I'm guessing it will be lower on a 6m health dummy where you would have to sustain the Force Pulse rotation a bit longer. Also, it would have been interesting to see what your DPS would have been on the same rotation, but with an Architect flame staff of the same trait instead of the Asylum one.Playing since beta...0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Now deactivate asylum weapons for cyrodiil please.
There is no reason to lock pvp best in slot weapons behind vet hardmode pve minitrials.
I think you are approaching the subject from an angle that is unacceptable to ZOS.
They want to make their new product appealing to both PvPers and PvErs to maximise the number of players that subscribe or purchase the DLC. Like they previously did with Maelstrom Arena, Monster Helms, Dragonstar Arena. They all had equipment that was at one time BiS for certain builds in PvP.
Nothing ever required 12 people groups though.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
This is the first time in the games history that best in slot gear will exclusively drop in raid/trial settings needing 12 people to compete.
When masterweapons were bis they also dropped from pvp leaderboards and it was a 4 player activity.
Maelstrom was a singleplayer activity.
He´ll basically have to do that or nerf the staff further to make it irrelevant for pvp.
Well... not the first time tbh - Vicious Ophidian (and I think Infallible Aether) used to be BiS before like a billion nerfs and the drops from vet hardmode actually had special enchants on them (+10% more stats) back in the days :PEdited by DDuke on October 3, 2017 2:10PM0 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Simple fix to make this not an utterly broken weapon and still retain PVE strength -
"Completing a fully charged heavy attack applies all Burning, Concussed, Chilled on the enemy with the next force pulse. This can happen once every 5 seconds."
+1
I would prefer this change as well. Its unlikely that we will get it this way, but this would certainly be more usable.
That would screw up wonderful rotations like this one. Half the reason I play magblade in PVE is so that I don't have to heavy attack very often as a regular part of my rotation.
I'm not particularly thrilled with the heavy attack meta either, but its what we apparently have to deal with until the great Wizard of ZoS decides to bring in a new era...
A 3m dummy parse is still mostly a burst parse on a Magicka Nightblade though. As impressive as the 40K+ DPS is, I'm guessing it will be lower on a 6m health dummy where you would have to sustain the Force Pulse rotation a bit longer. Also, it would have been interesting to see what your DPS would have been on the same rotation, but with an Architect flame staff of the same trait instead of the Asylum one.
Oh it's not my parse, just one I saw someone else post. And good catch; I didn't notice it was only on a 3m dummy.7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
This is the first time in the games history that best in slot gear will exclusively drop in raid/trial settings needing 12 people to compete.
When masterweapons were bis they also dropped from pvp leaderboards and it was a 4 player activity.
Maelstrom was a singleplayer activity.
He´ll basically have to do that or nerf the staff further to make it irrelevant for pvp.
Well... not the first time tbh, Vicious Ophidian (and I think Infallible Aether) used to be BiS before like a billion nerfs - and the drops from vet hardmode actually had special enchants on them (+10% more stats) back in the days :P
Correct. I member old Vicious Ophidian. You member?
EU | PC | AD0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This is the first time in the games history that best in slot gear will exclusively drop in raid/trial settings needing 12 people to compete.
When masterweapons were bis they also dropped from pvp leaderboards and it was a 4 player activity.
Maelstrom was a singleplayer activity.
He´ll basically have to do that or nerf the staff further to make it irrelevant for pvp.
Well... not the first time tbh - Vicious Ophidian (and I think Infallible Aether) used to be BiS before like a billion nerfs and the drops from vet hardmode actually had special enchants on them (+10% more stats) back in the days :P
Can´t talk about VO but aether never was bis for pvp builds.
I´m only talking about bis pvp equip not in general.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WuffyCerulei wrote: »I look forward to running Asylum HM then.
I don't. vAsylum HM, esp. after the difficulty increase this patch, is probably the hardest content they've put out and makes things like vMoL HM look like a stroll in the park. I wouldn't expect to see people running perfected weapons any time soon.
And with the way the endgame PvE community is shriveling, I don't think this trend towards increasingly exclusive content is healthy.Edited by code65536 on October 3, 2017 2:27PMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information5 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WuffyCerulei wrote: »I look forward to running Asylum HM then.
I don't. vAsylum HM, esp. after the difficulty increase this patch, is probably the hardest content they've put out and makes things like vMoL HM look like a stroll in the park. I wouldn't expect to see people running perfected weapons any time soon.
And with the way the endgame PvE community is shriveling, I don't think this trend towards increasingly exclusive content is healthy.
I think that the only thing that could potentially inject new blood into the PvE endgame community, is... Trials Group finder. For normal trials only of course. It would give newer players a way to discover the content, even if they don't finish it, and it might inspire them to start looking for trials guilds. Obviously, I'm only saying "might" because it could go the other way and push people away from trials since there will always be "those guys" (y'all know who I'm talking about) just like in the Dungeon Group finder.
But yeah, the Asylum HM is looking like the hardest content in the game at the moment, the non-HM versions however, aren't THAT difficult.
The plus side? The speed run lasts only 15 minutes, so once you get the hang of it to the point of being able to speed run it, farming weapons won't be too much of a pain. What saddens me is that the Destro staff is the only weapon that is worth farming.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WuffyCerulei wrote: »I look forward to running Asylum HM then.
I don't. vAsylum HM, esp. after the difficulty increase this patch, is probably the hardest content they've put out and makes things like vMoL HM look like a stroll in the park. I wouldn't expect to see people running perfected weapons any time soon.
And with the way the endgame PvE community is shriveling, I don't think this trend towards increasingly exclusive content is healthy.
I think that the only thing that could potentially inject new blood into the PvE endgame community, is... Trials Group finder. For normal trials only of course. It would give newer players a way to discover the content, even if they don't finish it, and it might inspire them to start looking for trials guilds. Obviously, I'm only saying "might" because it could go the other way and push people away from trials since there will always be "those guys" (y'all know who I'm talking about) just like in the Dungeon Group finder.
But yeah, the Asylum HM is looking like the hardest content in the game at the moment, the non-HM versions however, aren't THAT difficult.
The plus side? The speed run lasts only 15 minutes, so once you get the hang of it to the point of being able to speed run it, farming weapons won't be too much of a pain. What saddens me is that the Destro staff is the only weapon that is worth farming.
Right, vet Asylum non-HM isn't bad at all--I've completed it twice on the PTS--and the difficulty buffs this patch don't really affect the non-HM version. Non-HM is accessible, and that's where perfected weapons should drop.- Non-Vet: Non-perfected
- Vet non-HM: Perfected
- Vet HM: 2x Perfected weapons
Vet non-HM is about as accessible as vet Maelstrom, which I think is a good benchmark. Vet trial hardmodes have always been about score and prestige. Never before has player power been gated behind a hardmode.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information8 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Now deactivate asylum weapons for cyrodiil please.
There is no reason to lock pvp best in slot weapons behind vet hardmode pve minitrials.
Actually all PVE arena Weapons should be locked from Cyro, give PVP'ers their own arena with weapons, which cannot be used in PVE and we^re good
PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WuffyCerulei wrote: »I look forward to running Asylum HM then.
I don't. vAsylum HM, esp. after the difficulty increase this patch, is probably the hardest content they've put out and makes things like vMoL HM look like a stroll in the park. I wouldn't expect to see people running perfected weapons any time soon.
And with the way the endgame PvE community is shriveling, I don't think this trend towards increasingly exclusive content is healthy.
I think that the only thing that could potentially inject new blood into the PvE endgame community, is... Trials Group finder. For normal trials only of course. It would give newer players a way to discover the content, even if they don't finish it, and it might inspire them to start looking for trials guilds. Obviously, I'm only saying "might" because it could go the other way and push people away from trials since there will always be "those guys" (y'all know who I'm talking about) just like in the Dungeon Group finder.
But yeah, the Asylum HM is looking like the hardest content in the game at the moment, the non-HM versions however, aren't THAT difficult.
The plus side? The speed run lasts only 15 minutes, so once you get the hang of it to the point of being able to speed run it, farming weapons won't be too much of a pain. What saddens me is that the Destro staff is the only weapon that is worth farming.
Right, vet Asylum non-HM isn't bad at all--I've completed it twice on the PTS--and the difficulty buffs this patch don't really affect the non-HM version. Non-HM is accessible, and that's where perfected weapons should drop.- Non-Vet: Non-perfected
- Vet non-HM: Perfected
- Vet HM: 2x Perfected weapons
Vet non-HM is about as accessible as vet Maelstrom, which I think is a good benchmark. Vet trial hardmodes have always been about score and prestige. Never before has player power been gated behind a hardmode.
This is a good suggestion and assessment with the current design if this trail on the pts.Edited by idk on October 3, 2017 4:18PM5 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭WuffyCerulei wrote: »I look forward to running Asylum HM then.
I don't. vAsylum HM, esp. after the difficulty increase this patch, is probably the hardest content they've put out and makes things like vMoL HM look like a stroll in the park. I wouldn't expect to see people running perfected weapons any time soon.
And with the way the endgame PvE community is shriveling, I don't think this trend towards increasingly exclusive content is healthy.
I think that the only thing that could potentially inject new blood into the PvE endgame community, is... Trials Group finder. For normal trials only of course. It would give newer players a way to discover the content, even if they don't finish it, and it might inspire them to start looking for trials guilds. Obviously, I'm only saying "might" because it could go the other way and push people away from trials since there will always be "those guys" (y'all know who I'm talking about) just like in the Dungeon Group finder.
But yeah, the Asylum HM is looking like the hardest content in the game at the moment, the non-HM versions however, aren't THAT difficult.
The plus side? The speed run lasts only 15 minutes, so once you get the hang of it to the point of being able to speed run it, farming weapons won't be too much of a pain. What saddens me is that the Destro staff is the only weapon that is worth farming.
Right, vet Asylum non-HM isn't bad at all--I've completed it twice on the PTS--and the difficulty buffs this patch don't really affect the non-HM version. Non-HM is accessible, and that's where perfected weapons should drop.- Non-Vet: Non-perfected
- Vet non-HM: Perfected
- Vet HM: 2x Perfected weapons
Vet non-HM is about as accessible as vet Maelstrom, which I think is a good benchmark. Vet trial hardmodes have always been about score and prestige. Never before has player power been gated behind a hardmode.
This is a good suggestion and assessment with the current design if this trail on the pts.
How is this a good suggestion? I can only equip 1 perfected weapon, giving me 2 is not a reward, when someone who doesn't put time into overcoming vet HM can still have that weapon equipped. So really? Giving me 2 weapons that will be deconstructed anyway is a good suggestion? Think again. Vet HM being about score and prestige only is a bad thing and a problem - that leads to many people not even bothering with vet HMs and then you only have so many groups doing them (and mostly these groups overlap where you have a couple of guilds pretty much sharing almost entire core groups) and it's way too hard to join them, and it's difficult to start a new one because most players don't care. Vet HM needs to be worth not only completing once, but also farming. And if you give a perfected weapon for vet non hm, then 2 perfected weapons of vet hm simply don't matter.
Score and prestige stopped mattering when they first reset the leader board. The only prestige that matters is that others will see you have a weapon they don't/can't have.Edited by Artis on October 3, 2017 4:39PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WuffyCerulei wrote: »I look forward to running Asylum HM then.
I don't. vAsylum HM, esp. after the difficulty increase this patch, is probably the hardest content they've put out and makes things like vMoL HM look like a stroll in the park. I wouldn't expect to see people running perfected weapons any time soon.
And with the way the endgame PvE community is shriveling, I don't think this trend towards increasingly exclusive content is healthy.
I think that the only thing that could potentially inject new blood into the PvE endgame community, is... Trials Group finder. For normal trials only of course. It would give newer players a way to discover the content, even if they don't finish it, and it might inspire them to start looking for trials guilds. Obviously, I'm only saying "might" because it could go the other way and push people away from trials since there will always be "those guys" (y'all know who I'm talking about) just like in the Dungeon Group finder.
But yeah, the Asylum HM is looking like the hardest content in the game at the moment, the non-HM versions however, aren't THAT difficult.
The plus side? The speed run lasts only 15 minutes, so once you get the hang of it to the point of being able to speed run it, farming weapons won't be too much of a pain. What saddens me is that the Destro staff is the only weapon that is worth farming.
Right, vet Asylum non-HM isn't bad at all--I've completed it twice on the PTS--and the difficulty buffs this patch don't really affect the non-HM version. Non-HM is accessible, and that's where perfected weapons should drop.- Non-Vet: Non-perfected
- Vet non-HM: Perfected
- Vet HM: 2x Perfected weapons
Vet non-HM is about as accessible as vet Maelstrom, which I think is a good benchmark. Vet trial hardmodes have always been about score and prestige. Never before has player power been gated behind a hardmode.
This is a good suggestion and assessment with the current design if this trail on the pts.
How is this a good suggestion? I can only equip 1 perfected weapon, giving me 2 is not a reward, when someone who doesn't put time into overcoming vet HM can still have that weapon equipped. So really? Giving me 2 weapons that will be deconstructed anyway is a good suggestion? Think again. Vet HM being about score and prestige only is a bad thing and a problem - that leads to many people not even bothering with vet HMs and then you only have so many groups doing them (and mostly these groups overlap where you have a couple of guilds pretty much sharing almost entire core groups) and it's way too hard to join them, and it's difficult to start a new one because most players don't care. Vet HM needs to be worth not only completing once, but also farming. And if you give a perfected weapon for vet non hm, then 2 perfected weapons of vet hm simply don't matter.
Score and prestige stopped mattering when they first reset the leader board. The only prestige that matters is that others will see you have a weapon they don't/can't have.
@Artis I ageed with someone's thought. Why not take it up with them. Question their logic behind their idea.
Thx.0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@Artis I ageed with someone's thought. Why not take it up with them. Question their logic behind their idea.
Thx.
No, I would like to know why you agree. Because yeah, code said what he thought. But you said "good suggestion". Now how is it good? And yeah he can read what I said, too. It goes to both of you.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭2h vs perfected 2h ~6.7% difference.
staff vs perfected staff 50% difference.
Well
Exactly, that the problem.
Suggestion:
- Asylum Destro: You have a 33% chance to apply all 3 status effects for 4 seconds when using Force Shock
- Perfect Asylum Destro: You have a 40% chance to apply all 3 status effects for 4 seconds when using Force Shock
That brings the difference on par with 2H.
Please no RNG.... implementing RNG into these weapons will make things so much less fun.0 -
Horowonnoe✭✭✭✭✭Now deactivate asylum weapons for cyrodiil please.
There is no reason to lock pvp best in slot weapons behind vet hardmode pve minitrials.
I think you are approaching the subject from an angle that is unacceptable to ZOS.
They want to make their new product appealing to both PvPers and PvErs to maximise the number of players that subscribe or purchase the DLC. Like they previously did with Maelstrom Arena, Monster Helms, Dragonstar Arena. They all had equipment that was at one time BiS for certain builds in PvP.
There is 0 chance they will make those sets only useful to PvE now. They might do that at a later date, in the same way they went with the vMA and vDSA weapon nerfs. Once they've sold as many copies of CWC as they could basically. I don't blame them, ultimately they need to be selling DLCs for the game to turn a profit and thus continue to exist.
I understand the argument that for the first time these weapons are locked behind a hard mode vet Trial and I agree that's terrible design because those are inaccessible to the vast majority of people. Not because of lack of skill or effort but because it requires a loooot of organisation to put repeated 12-person raids together.
The best way I can think of handling that is to massively decrease the benefit of Asylum to Perfect Asylum weapons. Which is the opposite of what they've just done with the staves.2h vs perfected 2h ~6.7% difference.
staff vs perfected staff 50% difference.
Well
Exactly, that the problem.
Suggestion:
- Asylum Destro: You have a 33% chance to apply all 3 status effects for 4 seconds when using Force Shock
- Perfect Asylum Destro: You have a 40% chance to apply all 3 status effects for 4 seconds when using Force Shock
That brings the difference on par with 2H.
Same chance applying status effects with any other weapon. : /PC / NA
Templar Healer "False Eye"
Sorc Healer "Potema the Wolf Queen"
Warden Healer "Heavy Attacks Online"
Magicka Nightblade DPS "Nephaleth Telvanni"
Dragonknight Tank "Nico's Facsimile"
Builds & Guides:
Horow's Templar Healer Guide for Trials (Murkmire updated)
How to get Felms to jump correctly in vAS HM?
Horow's vMA Magicka Sorc Build for beginners and lazy farmers
Horow's Magicka Sorc Triple Pet Heavy Attack Build - Summerset Isles Ready
More builds at anthem-guild.com/pve/.
Notable Achievements:
- World's first 18 Axes vAA clear
- World's first 20+ enrage stack Llothis in vAS HM and World record cone damage1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
@Artis I ageed with someone's thought. Why not take it up with them. Question their logic behind their idea.
Thx.
No, I would like to know why you agree. Because yeah, code said what he thought. But you said "good suggestion". Now how is it good? And yeah he can read what I said, too. It goes to both of you.
I think his assessment is accurate enough with the current changes.
I see no issue with multiple weapons since they have the lowest drop rate overall so n the game and I can equip more characters faster so there is a benefit.
Granted, someone who has only one character they play and plans to get the right type of weapon on the first clear may not care. However, the game is not really designed for such a narrow perspective since many have multiple characters.
Probably the biggest point, is it really an issue getting multiple weapons. Is the gear the main reason you play? My guess is that answer is your not raiding for the gear so his suggestion and my agreement is not a problem.0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WuffyCerulei wrote: »I look forward to running Asylum HM then.
I don't. vAsylum HM, esp. after the difficulty increase this patch, is probably the hardest content they've put out and makes things like vMoL HM look like a stroll in the park. I wouldn't expect to see people running perfected weapons any time soon.
And with the way the endgame PvE community is shriveling, I don't think this trend towards increasingly exclusive content is healthy.
I think that the only thing that could potentially inject new blood into the PvE endgame community, is... Trials Group finder. For normal trials only of course. It would give newer players a way to discover the content, even if they don't finish it, and it might inspire them to start looking for trials guilds. Obviously, I'm only saying "might" because it could go the other way and push people away from trials since there will always be "those guys" (y'all know who I'm talking about) just like in the Dungeon Group finder.
But yeah, the Asylum HM is looking like the hardest content in the game at the moment, the non-HM versions however, aren't THAT difficult.
The plus side? The speed run lasts only 15 minutes, so once you get the hang of it to the point of being able to speed run it, farming weapons won't be too much of a pain. What saddens me is that the Destro staff is the only weapon that is worth farming.
Right, vet Asylum non-HM isn't bad at all--I've completed it twice on the PTS--and the difficulty buffs this patch don't really affect the non-HM version. Non-HM is accessible, and that's where perfected weapons should drop.- Non-Vet: Non-perfected
- Vet non-HM: Perfected
- Vet HM: 2x Perfected weapons
Vet non-HM is about as accessible as vet Maelstrom, which I think is a good benchmark. Vet trial hardmodes have always been about score and prestige. Never before has player power been gated behind a hardmode.
This is a good suggestion and assessment with the current design if this trail on the pts.
How is this a good suggestion? I can only equip 1 perfected weapon, giving me 2 is not a reward, when someone who doesn't put time into overcoming vet HM can still have that weapon equipped. So really? Giving me 2 weapons that will be deconstructed anyway is a good suggestion? Think again. Vet HM being about score and prestige only is a bad thing and a problem - that leads to many people not even bothering with vet HMs and then you only have so many groups doing them (and mostly these groups overlap where you have a couple of guilds pretty much sharing almost entire core groups) and it's way too hard to join them, and it's difficult to start a new one because most players don't care. Vet HM needs to be worth not only completing once, but also farming. And if you give a perfected weapon for vet non hm, then 2 perfected weapons of vet hm simply don't matter.
Score and prestige stopped mattering when they first reset the leader board. The only prestige that matters is that others will see you have a weapon they don't/can't have.
I agree that giving 2 weapons isn't exactly the reward we are looking for, but I think it is an improvement over what is currently in PTS. Vet-Non-HM could give a purple weapon and Vet-HM could give a gold... or any number of different configurations, but the bottom line is once you do get the weapon you want what is the incentive for doing the content again?
Prestige/Score is part of it, and there are a few guilds that still care about being #1, but the real reason why most of us are going to do the content is if it is fun. If the content isn't fun then nobody will do it once they have what they want from it.
To me that is the real reason why you don't have a lot of players bothering with the hard modes of trials is because for them it just isn't fun. Same reason why VMA is being run much less now. The players that were doing it for the weapons either got what they want, or the upcoming changes to the weapons make them less desirable. I rarely hear a player excited to go do VMA again just for the content. It is usually because they feel obligated to get that weapon they need for their build.
IMO, there needs to be a larger focus on making combat in general more fun for more people in PvE. I don't know what the magic equation is, but anecdotally from what I can tell the number of guilds running vet trials is continuing to drop since Morrowind (only ZoS has the real numbers), and that is a problem that dropping a powerful staff on hard mode of a new trial isn't going to solve.Playing since beta...2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »IMO, there needs to be a larger focus on making combat in general more fun for more people in PvE. I don't know what the magic equation is, but anecdotally from what I can tell the number of guilds running vet trials is continuing to drop since Morrowind (only ZoS has the real numbers), and that is a problem that dropping a powerful staff on hard mode of a new trial isn't going to solve.
Well combat was more fun for most people before the game devolved into mainly requiring heavyattacks in any rotation...
The problem with that approach also is that some people just don´t want to run largegroup pve but want to be competetive in their choosen environment none the less.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
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@Artis I ageed with someone's thought. Why not take it up with them. Question their logic behind their idea.
Thx.
No, I would like to know why you agree. Because yeah, code said what he thought. But you said "good suggestion". Now how is it good? And yeah he can read what I said, too. It goes to both of you.
I think his assessment is accurate enough with the current changes.
I see no issue with multiple weapons since they have the lowest drop rate overall so n the game and I can equip more characters faster so there is a benefit.
Granted, someone who has only one character they play and plans to get the right type of weapon on the first clear may not care. However, the game is not really designed for such a narrow perspective since many have multiple characters.
Probably the biggest point, is it really an issue getting multiple weapons. Is the gear the main reason you play? My guess is that answer is your not raiding for the gear so his suggestion and my agreement is not a problem.
The number of characters doesn't matter in principle. 1 or 14 at some point they all have the gear they want, so getting more of decon pieces is NOT a good reward for vet HM, especially compared to vet. What's the point of doing vet hm if all valuable gear from there drops in nonHM anyway. It will be just like it's been for a while. You wanna run vet? Nope. Somebody else suggests farming normal for weapons/gear? The group is formed in minutes.ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »
I agree that giving 2 weapons isn't exactly the reward we are looking for, but I think it is an improvement over what is currently in PTS. Vet-Non-HM could give a purple weapon and Vet-HM could give a gold... or any number of different configurations, but the bottom line is once you do get the weapon you want what is the incentive for doing the content again?
Prestige/Score is part of it, and there are a few guilds that still care about being #1, but the real reason why most of us are going to do the content is if it is fun. If the content isn't fun then nobody will do it once they have what they want from it.
To me that is the real reason why you don't have a lot of players bothering with the hard modes of trials is because for them it just isn't fun. Same reason why VMA is being run much less now. The players that were doing it for the weapons either got what they want, or the upcoming changes to the weapons make them less desirable. I rarely hear a player excited to go do VMA again just for the content. It is usually because they feel obligated to get that weapon they need for their build.
IMO, there needs to be a larger focus on making combat in general more fun for more people in PvE. I don't know what the magic equation is, but anecdotally from what I can tell the number of guilds running vet trials is continuing to drop since Morrowind (only ZoS has the real numbers), and that is a problem that dropping a powerful staff on hard mode of a new trial isn't going to solve.
That's the thing. Not many people care about prestige, so if you want healthy population you want people to want to run that content for other reasons. What people are suggesting here is having no reasons whatsoever except for score/prestige. That's a terrible idea.
Maybe it wouldn't matter for vMA because it's solo (and btw I run it for fun sometimes or if I have nothing else to do, but you're right it became faceroll these days and much less fun because of that), but it would absolutely matter for the group content. Say, I want to progress there, but it just so happened that players who run it for score/prestige already have their "core" groups or whatever. So if I can't find a spot there what would I do? Try to gather my own group or find another group - but there's no players to draw from, because whoever doesn't care about prestige has no reason to do vet HM. They will get all their gear from a much easier vet. You seriously don't see a problem with this?
Or can look at it from this angle - those weapons are only really needed for the highest possible performance which is not needed anywhere except for pushing scores or doing hardest content. So players who won't do HM can live without it.1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »IMO, there needs to be a larger focus on making combat in general more fun for more people in PvE. I don't know what the magic equation is, but anecdotally from what I can tell the number of guilds running vet trials is continuing to drop since Morrowind (only ZoS has the real numbers), and that is a problem that dropping a powerful staff on hard mode of a new trial isn't going to solve.
Well combat was more fun for most people before the game devolved into mainly requiring heavyattacks in any rotation...
The problem with that approach also is that some people just don´t want to run largegroup pve but want to be competetive in their choosen environment none the less.
Well that's just it... if the game is fun for people they play, and they buy stuff in the game, and go on raids.
I could go onto a discussion regarding separating PvP and PvE and why you can't balance the 2 together, but that would be beating a dead horse and too far off topic.Playing since beta...0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Artis
Some raid for gear. Some raid because they enjoy it. So if your question is why do HM then we can let our differences continue without needing to keep the discussion going. Besides, I understand some prefer to get 2 of the same piece of jewelry they will just vendor.
I'm sure you'll be ok with that since if you have spent a decent ammount of time in the forums you'd understand it's hard to find 2 players who will agree on the same topic.0 -
Zapzarap✭✭✭✭and another good example of an PvE Item nerved to useless just because of PvP.
@ZOS_GinaBruno I don't get it... you HAVE the skill to restrict sets to certain areas (like the trial sets), why not applying this to "Only works in PvE" or "Only works in PvP"...
No, its much better to eighter force PvP players zu PvE content or to nerv any PvE/PvP-Gear that could be OP in PvP/PvE.
In my oppinion trial sets should only be good/usable in trials, or at least only PvE Content.
Now its like: Play as you want... but for the BIS PvP-Set you have to go to PvE.Rolle: Tank
Gilde: eXceed-Gaming
Youtube: Zapzarap
Craglorn: vAA HM, vHR HM, vSO HM
DLC: vMOL HM, vHoF HM, vAS (+2), vCR (+3), vSS HM
Tick-Tock Tormentor // Immortal Redeemer // Gryphon Heart
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭2h vs perfected 2h ~6.7% difference.
staff vs perfected staff 50% difference.
Well
Exactly, that the problem.
Suggestion:
- Asylum Destro: You have a 33% chance to apply all 3 status effects for 4 seconds when using Force Shock
- Perfect Asylum Destro: You have a 40% chance to apply all 3 status effects for 4 seconds when using Force Shock
That brings the difference on par with 2H.
Please no RNG.... implementing RNG into these weapons will make things so much less fun.
It was only a suggestion, but I would prefer a 33% proc chance than "every 3rd attack". Mathematically it works out the same and at least, if the visual signs are easy to spot, I can use my burst on time with the off-balance when it procs.Horowonnoe wrote: »Now deactivate asylum weapons for cyrodiil please.
There is no reason to lock pvp best in slot weapons behind vet hardmode pve minitrials.
I think you are approaching the subject from an angle that is unacceptable to ZOS.
They want to make their new product appealing to both PvPers and PvErs to maximise the number of players that subscribe or purchase the DLC. Like they previously did with Maelstrom Arena, Monster Helms, Dragonstar Arena. They all had equipment that was at one time BiS for certain builds in PvP.
There is 0 chance they will make those sets only useful to PvE now. They might do that at a later date, in the same way they went with the vMA and vDSA weapon nerfs. Once they've sold as many copies of CWC as they could basically. I don't blame them, ultimately they need to be selling DLCs for the game to turn a profit and thus continue to exist.
I understand the argument that for the first time these weapons are locked behind a hard mode vet Trial and I agree that's terrible design because those are inaccessible to the vast majority of people. Not because of lack of skill or effort but because it requires a loooot of organisation to put repeated 12-person raids together.
The best way I can think of handling that is to massively decrease the benefit of Asylum to Perfect Asylum weapons. Which is the opposite of what they've just done with the staves.2h vs perfected 2h ~6.7% difference.
staff vs perfected staff 50% difference.
Well
Exactly, that the problem.
Suggestion:
- Asylum Destro: You have a 33% chance to apply all 3 status effects for 4 seconds when using Force Shock
- Perfect Asylum Destro: You have a 40% chance to apply all 3 status effects for 4 seconds when using Force Shock
That brings the difference on par with 2H.
Same chance applying status effects with any other weapon. : /
Errr no? Not even close. What are you talking about?EU | PC | AD0
