PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Docmandu · October 2017

Zer0oo wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Frags loosing the CC is a good change imho.. it was very powerful.. and sorc still has streak/BoL to stun... though I agree with most that Crystal Blast still won't be used.. maybe it should be a Crystal Frags copy that still gives CC but looses the cheaper cost and extra damage on proc. Then it would be a choice between CC or higher burst.

Streak and BoL have high cost(3k mag) and a cost increase(5k after first use) so you really have to be careful to use them as cc and they do not fit so well into range combat of sorcs. (Don't get me wrong they work well as cc but more as an backup option if you can't cc your opponent normally e.g dodge roll spammers) Taking off the cc of cfrags and sorcs will lose alot of pressure in pvp since enemies now can instant heal after getting hit instead of needing to cc break first(less counter play from enemies needed as long as it doesn't one shot they can instantly heal up no blocking and dodging needed). Sorcs need to give up another skill to slot a real cc and the burst combo will now be harder to get off in open field pvp(you have to get another skill in before you use your combo).

Using streak means a sorc still has a 21 range CC that he likely already has on his quickbar, so nothing to give up.. and if 21 range can't cut it, make room for rune prison which is an instant 41 range stun.

BTW: streak high cost? You don't spam it if you use it for stunning.. and it's actually cheaper (3780) than something like Templar's Javelin (4050), DK's stonefist (4050), NB's Teleport Strike (4050), ... see the pattern? Because of the cost increase added when spamming the spell, it actually was made cheaper on first use... there's no reason to "spam" a stun anyway.

But.. would have preferred they made Crystal Blast into the lower damage CC version of it. Only new people use Crystal Blast, to level up the skill or to find out it's garbage. Don't think that will change with this patch.

It is only 270 magica cheaper and will get a cost increase.What happens when someone blocks the cc? What happens if you need streak for kiting. What happens if you really don't want to be at the position streak puts you in? Do you play a sorc?(I think i remember your name on pc eu as zerg surfing ice root spamming templer)

The nerf of the cfrags will hurt quite alot in open world pvp since it was the cc that made cfrags so dangerous that you want to block or dodge them.

What if .. what if .. what if... that's a lot of what if's.. Is streak a perfect replacement.. ofcourse not.. is loosing the stun on crystal frags the end of the world? Don't think so.

As for the other bit.. sorc, templar and warden are the ones I play most.. though haven't played anything but my warden since Morrowind.. and seems your memory is playing tricks on you.. sure I play a templar too.. and sure.. I'll zerg surf too (and go grab some resources solo getting zerged down myself).. but not on a templar with an ice staff spamming frost clench.. not that it matters at all for this thread.

And as somebody else already mentioned... with Miat's.. it's not like the knock down was fool proof...

Thelon · October 2017

who even asked for this nonsense?

Docmandu · October 2017

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

There's a number of other drawbacks: if I'm rooted I can only blink in the direction I'm facing unless I first dodge it or use a handful of skills that reorient your toon inside roots. So if streak is to be my only CC, it's fair that t should be hard counterable by every root in the game? Not only that, but if I'm in a confined space like on a wall or a rock, ect, I can't always use streak as CC because I'll go flying off a cliff!

So on one hand people scream for counters... but on the otherhand if there is a counter, it's an issue too? Frags also had counters to the stun.. in Eclipse / defensive posture. Which btw also negates some of the other classes ability to stun.
Fact that you can't turn when rooted is crap.. something wardens and templars know all too well.

And it's not like there's no other options... rune prison (class) and flame reach (everyone).

BTW: the bolt escape nerf was much later.. Sorc was my first character... still recall being able to zap from one end of cyrodiil to the other... PTS Patchnotes from July 2015 -- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1/

MasterSpatula · October 2017

Why are people making arguments to Wrobel? It's plain that anyone who would even suggest such a change is immune to reason, immune to sense, immune to principles of good game design.

This, along with the other class nerfs and the Sustain nerfs and, well, come to think of it, EVERY GAMEPLAY CHANGE THIS YEAR, is so blitheringly imbecilic that there's no point in trying to persuade anyone who would, for an instant, even consider such a change.

KramUzibra · October 2017

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Why are people making arguments to Wrobel? It's plain that anyone who would even suggest such a change is immune to reason, immune to sense, immune to principles of good game design.

This, along with the other class nerfs and the Sustain nerfs and, well, come to think of it, EVERY GAMEPLAY CHANGE THIS YEAR, is so blitheringly imbecilic that there's no point in trying to persuade anyone who would, for an instant, even consider such a change.

Idk the change to procs was pretty cool

HoloYoitsu · October 2017

Docmandu wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

There's a number of other drawbacks: if I'm rooted I can only blink in the direction I'm facing unless I first dodge it or use a handful of skills that reorient your toon inside roots. So if streak is to be my only CC, it's fair that t should be hard counterable by every root in the game? Not only that, but if I'm in a confined space like on a wall or a rock, ect, I can't always use streak as CC because I'll go flying off a cliff!

So on one hand people scream for counters... but on the otherhand if there is a counter, it's an issue too? Frags also had counters to the stun.. in Eclipse / defensive posture. Which btw also negates some of the other classes ability to stun.
Fact that you can't turn when rooted is crap.. something wardens and templars know all too well.

And it's not like there's no other options... rune prison (class) and flame reach (everyone).

BTW: the bolt escape nerf was much later.. Sorc was my first character... still recall being able to zap from one end of cyrodiil to the other... PTS Patchnotes from July 2015 -- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1/

That's another change, the one I was referring to was from June 2014

"Bolt Escape: After using Bolt Escape, the next use within 4 seconds costs 50% more."

Anyway, my point about counters there was in response to people who are now trying to push the notion that "using rune cage is your choice" because "just streak for CC will still be fine". My point was that that idea is asinine.

I've already said the same thing you just mentioned: rune cage or flame reach. Every sorc will have to run one of those.

FlamingBeard · October 2017

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

There's a number of other drawbacks: if I'm rooted I can only blink in the direction I'm facing unless I first dodge it or use a handful of skills that reorient your toon inside roots. So if streak is to be my only CC, it's fair that t should be hard counterable by every root in the game? Not only that, but if I'm in a confined space like on a wall or a rock, ect, I can't always use streak as CC because I'll go flying off a cliff!

So on one hand people scream for counters... but on the otherhand if there is a counter, it's an issue too? Frags also had counters to the stun.. in Eclipse / defensive posture. Which btw also negates some of the other classes ability to stun.
Fact that you can't turn when rooted is crap.. something wardens and templars know all too well.

And it's not like there's no other options... rune prison (class) and flame reach (everyone).

BTW: the bolt escape nerf was much later.. Sorc was my first character... still recall being able to zap from one end of cyrodiil to the other... PTS Patchnotes from July 2015 -- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1/

That's another change, the one I was referring to was from June 2014

"Bolt Escape: After using Bolt Escape, the next use within 4 seconds costs 50% more."

Anyway, my point about counters there was in response to people who are now trying to push the notion that "using rune cage is your choice" because "just streak for CC will still be fine". My point was that that idea is asinine.

I've already said the same thing you just mentioned: rune cage or flame reach. Every sorc will have to run one of those.

I'm glad you're starting to see how Templars feel when we can only choose between Aurora Javelin (one of the most expensive stuns in the game, and one that also throws enemies AWAY from Puncturing Sweep which is melee range) and Toppling Charge (a gap closer, which as many PvPers know gives the risk of being shot off-world or into a loading screen, or being stuck in its animation and having to actually CC break it to stop it).

I've seen none of you people complaining about the severe lack of Templar CC options, but you have one of the most powerful damage skills in the game (Crystal Fragments) lose its free knockdown on top of already having a cheap-cast instant proc effect and suddenly Sorcerer is "nerfed into the ground" and "nobody will use it anymore" as some here would have me believe. Yeah, right.

Emma_Overload · October 2017

Aedaryl wrote: »

@Wrobbel

Can you please make pet sorc viable in PvP pls ?

Actually, when someone kill your pets, there is NO WAY to recast it if the ennemy have bolt escape or any gap closer.

In fact even if you stun the ennemy with streak, the ennemi have time to break free, then gap close/ bolt escape you then interrupt you. The 1.5s is mathematically too much to recast a pet.

This make pet sorc non viable in a PvP environment. Every one having a half brain and have that gap closer/ bolt escape can kill a pet sorc at 100% chance.

I'm speaking about killing pets because pet defense is weak.

Pets have :

- 33% less shield than the sorc.
- Have no defensive cps meaning they take around 30% more damage than the sorc in cps environement + take more damage with shattering blow.
- Have no impen
- Can only be healing with Matriarch heal, and the scamp will never be healing if you are not alone (healing priorities).
- Pet's healing receive got nerfed and now take the same healing than you.
- Pet's have a stupid UI.
- You can't see HPs pets, so you can't even say when you need to heal/protect them actively.

With all that things, you can understand bursting a pet is extremelly easy. And when you saw someone starting to attacking your pet, you need to spam shield or he will be killed. And while you are spamming shield, you can't make damage. The most hilarious thing is you can't save you pet even whith spam shield - he just take too much damage.

For making pets viable in PvP, please @Wrobel reduce the cast time from 1.5s to 1s. So a pet sorc, with smart play can be able to recast his pet and not being 100% interrupted.

I agree with this. In my opinion, NOTHING should have a cast time longer than 1 second. Nobody uses Inevitable Detonation in PvP because it takes too long to cast.

Emma_Overload · October 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

So sorcs have a superior version of Talons, and now the same skill as Petrify with a more useful defense morph? While having better damage and mobility and shields than Dragonknights?

Give Rune Prison something else instead of making it a clone of a DK skill.

Since when have Sorcs had a superior version of Talons? You're not talking about Encase, are you? Encase is a JOKE! Enemy players just jump up and down to avoid it. You can cast Encase 3 or 4 times in a row, burning through half your Magicka, and watch it miss every time.

I would trade Encase for Talons any time.

You wouldn't if you knew what you were talking about.

You think someone who mains a Sorc doesn't know how crappy Encase is? Do I need to post a video to YouTube to prove it? It FAILS more times than it works! A 75% failure rate is NOT an exaggeration.

Maulkin · October 2017

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

We’d like to touch on a couple things we’re looking to iterate on for this class. First, some of you have mentioned that the Summon Charged Atronach AoE can occasionally miss targets that are right next to it. To address this, we plan to change the AoE pattern to a single circle instead of 5 small circles. We’ve also seen reports of an issue with Overload where the bound armor can persist even when it’s not on your bar; we’re investigating this issue.

Lastly, we’ve seen some of you mention that the new Rune Prison is quite powerful in PVP - we’re looking at adjusting the cost to help counter this. In addition, we’ve been evaluating the Crystal Shard skill line and its morphs and are planning to make some adjustments. The base stun component is going to be removed from the ability and instead placed on the Crystal Blast morph. This will make the choice between Crystal Fragments and Crystal Blast much more interesting as you are choosing between a CC and AoE damage vs. increased burst damage.

Thanks for taking the time to hop on the PTS and test out the changes so far!

Yeah, nice one. There is still no choice to make, you just nerfed one skill with 0 change in the meta.

It's been repeatedly mentioned in here: Skills with cast time are not used. They are bad in PvP because you get interrupted (unless the skill offers CC immunity), they are bad in PvE because they are inferior DPS to instant skills.

And as far as PvE is concerned, you always try to balance Damage vs Cost. And Crystal Blast apart from being bad DPS it's also way too expensive compared to the skills it's competing with. I mean people are using lightning staff heavy attacks in PvE for AoE damage. They are not even using Impulse anymore because the 2923 cost is too expensive for the damage to spam. Are they going to use Crystal Blast at a base cost of 3654? No, they are not.

You want to make Crystal Blast viable, remove the cast time and reduce the cost. If that warrants removing the CC element or reducing the damage, then so be it at least then it will be considered. By nerfing Crystal Fragments you are not making anyone pick Crystal Blast.

Zer0oo · October 2017

FlamingBeard wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

There's a number of other drawbacks: if I'm rooted I can only blink in the direction I'm facing unless I first dodge it or use a handful of skills that reorient your toon inside roots. So if streak is to be my only CC, it's fair that t should be hard counterable by every root in the game? Not only that, but if I'm in a confined space like on a wall or a rock, ect, I can't always use streak as CC because I'll go flying off a cliff!

So on one hand people scream for counters... but on the otherhand if there is a counter, it's an issue too? Frags also had counters to the stun.. in Eclipse / defensive posture. Which btw also negates some of the other classes ability to stun.
Fact that you can't turn when rooted is crap.. something wardens and templars know all too well.

And it's not like there's no other options... rune prison (class) and flame reach (everyone).

BTW: the bolt escape nerf was much later.. Sorc was my first character... still recall being able to zap from one end of cyrodiil to the other... PTS Patchnotes from July 2015 -- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1/

That's another change, the one I was referring to was from June 2014

"Bolt Escape: After using Bolt Escape, the next use within 4 seconds costs 50% more."

Anyway, my point about counters there was in response to people who are now trying to push the notion that "using rune cage is your choice" because "just streak for CC will still be fine". My point was that that idea is asinine.

I've already said the same thing you just mentioned: rune cage or flame reach. Every sorc will have to run one of those.

I'm glad you're starting to see how Templars feel when we can only choose between Aurora Javelin (one of the most expensive stuns in the game, and one that also throws enemies AWAY from Puncturing Sweep which is melee range) and Toppling Charge (a gap closer, which as many PvPers know gives the risk of being shot off-world or into a loading screen, or being stuck in its animation and having to actually CC break it to stop it).

I've seen none of you people complaining about the severe lack of Templar CC options, but you have one of the most powerful damage skills in the game (Crystal Fragments) lose its free knockdown on top of already having a cheap-cast instant proc effect and suddenly Sorcerer is "nerfed into the ground" and "nobody will use it anymore" as some here would have me believe. Yeah, right.

The nerf is good because templer got also nerfed? Why are you even in here? Just to say that templers got nerfed so it is good that sorcs got also nerfed? Also why do you assume ppl here wanted that the cc of shards got taken away? If you really want to make sorc bash posts go please on one of the sorcs are OP-QQ-Threads.

Also sorcs will still be good in pvp but alot weaker and the change was just stupid to make a unused skill better that still no one want to use. And if it makes you feel better the removal of the cc of the shards was also not really a good change.

quake89 · October 2017

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

@Wrobbel

Can you please make pet sorc viable in PvP pls ?

Actually, when someone kill your pets, there is NO WAY to recast it if the ennemy have bolt escape or any gap closer.

In fact even if you stun the ennemy with streak, the ennemi have time to break free, then gap close/ bolt escape you then interrupt you. The 1.5s is mathematically too much to recast a pet.

This make pet sorc non viable in a PvP environment. Every one having a half brain and have that gap closer/ bolt escape can kill a pet sorc at 100% chance.

I'm speaking about killing pets because pet defense is weak.

Pets have :

- 33% less shield than the sorc.
- Have no defensive cps meaning they take around 30% more damage than the sorc in cps environement + take more damage with shattering blow.
- Have no impen
- Can only be healing with Matriarch heal, and the scamp will never be healing if you are not alone (healing priorities).
- Pet's healing receive got nerfed and now take the same healing than you.
- Pet's have a stupid UI.
- You can't see HPs pets, so you can't even say when you need to heal/protect them actively.

With all that things, you can understand bursting a pet is extremelly easy. And when you saw someone starting to attacking your pet, you need to spam shield or he will be killed. And while you are spamming shield, you can't make damage. The most hilarious thing is you can't save you pet even whith spam shield - he just take too much damage.

For making pets viable in PvP, please @Wrobel reduce the cast time from 1.5s to 1s. So a pet sorc, with smart play can be able to recast his pet and not being 100% interrupted.

I agree with this. In my opinion, NOTHING should have a cast time longer than 1 second. Nobody uses Inevitable Detonation in PvP because it takes too long to cast.

This is exactly why crystal blast will still not be viable to the masses. The cast time is simply to long and telegraphable that it can be simply interrupted.

The only thing this will promote is large group PvP where you might be able to hide in the middle of your 24 man zerg to find the time to cast this ability and even then on PC your cast will be dodge rolled due to Miats.

Following on these are the questions I have for you @ZOS_Wrobel is the following. will crystal fragments have the damage reverted now it no longer has a cc ? and secondly is there a posibittly of removing the aoe and giving crystal blast a chance to proc like fragments ?

This will then provide a meaningful choice do I want more damage to burst my target or would I prefer to have reliable cc.

Hopefully you take the time to look at the many proposed options on this subject

Emma_Overload · October 2017

Checkmath wrote: »

Thats a total different story to implement. Battlespirit mostly changes some numbers, cuts them in half which is simple to program. Reducing cast times is much harder, since animations must been changed and that would be too much stuff for ZoS.

They don't have to change the animations just because they reduce the cast time... animations can be canceled! There are plenty of "instant" cast abilities that have long-assed animations.

FlamingBeard · October 2017

Zer0oo wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

There's a number of other drawbacks: if I'm rooted I can only blink in the direction I'm facing unless I first dodge it or use a handful of skills that reorient your toon inside roots. So if streak is to be my only CC, it's fair that t should be hard counterable by every root in the game? Not only that, but if I'm in a confined space like on a wall or a rock, ect, I can't always use streak as CC because I'll go flying off a cliff!

So on one hand people scream for counters... but on the otherhand if there is a counter, it's an issue too? Frags also had counters to the stun.. in Eclipse / defensive posture. Which btw also negates some of the other classes ability to stun.
Fact that you can't turn when rooted is crap.. something wardens and templars know all too well.

And it's not like there's no other options... rune prison (class) and flame reach (everyone).

BTW: the bolt escape nerf was much later.. Sorc was my first character... still recall being able to zap from one end of cyrodiil to the other... PTS Patchnotes from July 2015 -- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1/

That's another change, the one I was referring to was from June 2014

"Bolt Escape: After using Bolt Escape, the next use within 4 seconds costs 50% more."

Anyway, my point about counters there was in response to people who are now trying to push the notion that "using rune cage is your choice" because "just streak for CC will still be fine". My point was that that idea is asinine.

I've already said the same thing you just mentioned: rune cage or flame reach. Every sorc will have to run one of those.

I'm glad you're starting to see how Templars feel when we can only choose between Aurora Javelin (one of the most expensive stuns in the game, and one that also throws enemies AWAY from Puncturing Sweep which is melee range) and Toppling Charge (a gap closer, which as many PvPers know gives the risk of being shot off-world or into a loading screen, or being stuck in its animation and having to actually CC break it to stop it).

I've seen none of you people complaining about the severe lack of Templar CC options, but you have one of the most powerful damage skills in the game (Crystal Fragments) lose its free knockdown on top of already having a cheap-cast instant proc effect and suddenly Sorcerer is "nerfed into the ground" and "nobody will use it anymore" as some here would have me believe. Yeah, right.

The nerf is good because templer got also nerfed? Why are you even in here? Just to say that templers got nerfed so it is good that sorcs got also nerfed? Also why do you assume ppl here wanted that the cc of shards got taken away? If you really want to make sorc bash posts go please on one of the sorcs are OP-QQ-Threads.

Also sorcs will still be good in pvp but alot weaker and the change was just stupid to make a unused skill better that still no one want to use. And if it makes you feel better the removal of the cc of the shards was also not really a good change.

You're a minority here, though.

Most of these people would have us all believe that this random but non-problematic change ("change," not "nerf" because this won't affect its usefulness AT ALL) to Crystal Fragments will completely hinder Sorcerer's damage rotation in PvP.

Not only will it be an overall improvement, it will also allow Sorcerers to choose when someone is stunned with Rune Prison, meaning no more misplaced CC immunity during crucial damage rotation moments, such as right before they enter execute range.

Lord-Otto · October 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

^
Templar continuous damage in PvP outdoes sorc. Sorc just has the burst advantage. You don't easily dance around Sweeps with snares involved, and dodge builds certainly hate Templars.

At the moment, all types of builds, tank/heal/dd, actually have similar damage output. The difference is in how the damage gets delivered, and how often. A permablocking DK might not hit you often, but when that 12k Leap comes, it hurts. Just an example.

That is why Frags canNOT be compared to shards. When sorcs "lose" their burst, they lose their role. A Templar without any damage potential will still have amazing group support. Sorcs just aren't very versatile in their combat roles. You go damage, preferrably burst, or you go home.

Don't condone frags change.

Sorc still has good burst, its only the CC that changes. Also now one of the best group supports, outclassing DK on CC and negates too.

Fair enough.
But Blast AoE CC will only get used if you're a zergling that never defeats an enemy on your own. It's a PvE option, NOT Cyrodiil. So don't nerf Rune Cage.

pieratsos · October 2017

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

There's a number of other drawbacks: if I'm rooted I can only blink in the direction I'm facing unless I first dodge it or use a handful of skills that reorient your toon inside roots. So if streak is to be my only CC, it's fair that t should be hard counterable by every root in the game? Not only that, but if I'm in a confined space like on a wall or a rock, ect, I can't always use streak as CC because I'll go flying off a cliff!

So on one hand people scream for counters... but on the otherhand if there is a counter, it's an issue too? Frags also had counters to the stun.. in Eclipse / defensive posture. Which btw also negates some of the other classes ability to stun.
Fact that you can't turn when rooted is crap.. something wardens and templars know all too well.

And it's not like there's no other options... rune prison (class) and flame reach (everyone).

BTW: the bolt escape nerf was much later.. Sorc was my first character... still recall being able to zap from one end of cyrodiil to the other... PTS Patchnotes from July 2015 -- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1/

That's another change, the one I was referring to was from June 2014

"Bolt Escape: After using Bolt Escape, the next use within 4 seconds costs 50% more."

Anyway, my point about counters there was in response to people who are now trying to push the notion that "using rune cage is your choice" because "just streak for CC will still be fine". My point was that that idea is asinine.

I've already said the same thing you just mentioned: rune cage or flame reach. Every sorc will have to run one of those.

I'm glad you're starting to see how Templars feel when we can only choose between Aurora Javelin (one of the most expensive stuns in the game, and one that also throws enemies AWAY from Puncturing Sweep which is melee range) and Toppling Charge (a gap closer, which as many PvPers know gives the risk of being shot off-world or into a loading screen, or being stuck in its animation and having to actually CC break it to stop it).

I've seen none of you people complaining about the severe lack of Templar CC options, but you have one of the most powerful damage skills in the game (Crystal Fragments) lose its free knockdown on top of already having a cheap-cast instant proc effect and suddenly Sorcerer is "nerfed into the ground" and "nobody will use it anymore" as some here would have me believe. Yeah, right.

The nerf is good because templer got also nerfed? Why are you even in here? Just to say that templers got nerfed so it is good that sorcs got also nerfed? Also why do you assume ppl here wanted that the cc of shards got taken away? If you really want to make sorc bash posts go please on one of the sorcs are OP-QQ-Threads.

Also sorcs will still be good in pvp but alot weaker and the change was just stupid to make a unused skill better that still no one want to use. And if it makes you feel better the removal of the cc of the shards was also not really a good change.

You're a minority here, though.

Most of these people would have us all believe that this random but non-problematic change ("change," not "nerf" because this won't affect its usefulness AT ALL) to Crystal Fragments will completely hinder Sorcerer's damage rotation in PvP.

Not only will it be an overall improvement, it will also allow Sorcerers to choose when someone is stunned with Rune Prison, meaning no more misplaced CC immunity during crucial damage rotation moments, such as right before they enter execute range.

So this is a buff to sorcs? Got it.
I guess this is the evolution of nerf OP sorc threads. First streak draining ur magicka was a buff cause people chasing u run out of stamina, now removing the cc on frags is a buff cause rune prison.

You could delete the class and you would still find a way to call it a buff. Lol.

Derra · October 2017

I think the projectile speed/animation for fragments should be sped up to compensate for the loss of CC.

It´s one of the slowest projectiles due to blocking/dodging the CC being somewhat mandatory - which is obsolete with the removal of the CC part.
It´s too easy to dodge/block for being a pure dps ability.

Lord_Invel · October 2017

@ZOS_Wrobel Please tell me who persuaded zos into changing the sorc class like this. Like I honestly feel extremely frustrated about how nobody on your guys' end at zos actually take balancing seriously. Thinking that taking cc away from frags will keep the class moving forward is so ridiculous. I have an idea. How about just stop touching the classes in general and focus on balancing core combat mechanics first, such as making ults have reasonable counters again. TO MANY MOVES HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO COUNTERS! Rather than making changes that nobody.... and I really mean nobody has ever advocated for these damn sorc changes at all .... take the issue seriously and balance the combat mechanics of this game rather than playing around with classes that don't need to be tampered.

Lord-Otto · October 2017

Derra wrote: »

I think the projectile speed/animation for fragments should be sped up to compensate for the loss of CC.

It´s one of the slowest projectiles due to blocking/dodging the CC being somewhat mandatory - which is obsolete with the removal of the CC part.
It´s too easy to dodge/block for being a pure dps ability.

It should be sped up even with CC. Every hard-htting ability, except Wrecking Blow, is dodged proactively. It makes no sense that Frags, which are already telegraphed by Curse and glowing hands, can be dodged on reaction. They should have the same travel time as Spectral Bow.

Docmandu · October 2017

Derra wrote: »

I think the projectile speed/animation for fragments should be sped up to compensate for the loss of CC.

It´s one of the slowest projectiles due to blocking/dodging the CC being somewhat mandatory - which is obsolete with the removal of the CC part.
It´s too easy to dodge/block for being a pure dps ability.

I'm hoping they do this.. was kind of expecting it.. since they did something similar with other spells (templar javelin, DK stonefist).. then again.. they didn't change dark flare afaik.. and that one is even easier to avoid, with it being casted and travelling slow and in an arc... so not sure what their magic formula is on deciding speed of projectiles.

Lord_Invel · October 2017

Instead of the frag and rune defense changes how about we nerf shield stacking with 3 shields nerf pirate skeleton and resto ult and buff streak and power surge/degeneration. These changes are actually valuable and change the class at the core. Why does resto ult cost 80 ult lol why does pirate skeleton still apply damage reduction to shields why is shield spamming hardened, harness, and healing ward so easy to do. Rather than being able to stack all 3 shields zos should limit shield stacking with any class down to 2 shields at a time. Buff streak !!! Buff mobility like dodge roll for stam classes lower the effectiveness of snares they are detrimental to the game people want to move and play the game !!! Make crystal blast a stam version of crystal frags for stam sorc or something. But these changes you are making right now will just make sorc unenjoyable for everyone.

@ZOS_Wrobel

Docmandu · October 2017

Lord_Invel wrote: »

resto ult

They mentioned an adjustment to the resto ulti in ESO Live.. but guess they'll dump that on the last patch right before it goes live.... sorc changes aren't in v3.2.2 either.

Derra · October 2017

The nerf to frag is not in the notes?

Lord_Invel · October 2017

Derra wrote: »

The nerf to frag is not in the notes?

wait what do you mean its not in the notes ? I thought zos confirmed the frag change in the live stream?

SodanTok · October 2017

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

The nerf to frag is not in the notes?

wait what do you mean its not in the notes ? I thought zos confirmed the frag change in the live stream?

He means it is not in this patch. Probably next one with the other promised changes (1h+s ult, resto ult)

grannas211 · October 2017

Derra wrote: »

The nerf to frag is not in the notes?

Probably will be in the last patch so they don't have to hear feedback and push it through no matter what.

Jake1576 · October 2017

I hate to say it but I'm taking enjoyment out of watching. one of the most op classes in the game finally getting a nerf. sorcerers are way to op in the right hands. Crystal frags nerf is just a little nerf I hope they get even nerfed more. every other class has felt the nerf hammer lately except sorcerers. time for them to get their nerfs now.

grannas211 · October 2017

Jake1576 wrote: »

I hate to say it but I'm taking enjoyment out if watching one of the most op classes in the game finally getting a nerf lol sorcerers are way to op in the right hands Crystal frags nerf is just a little nerf I hope they get even needed more lol every other class has felt the nerf hammer lately except sorcerers time for them to get there needs now lol

At first I was like lol, then I was like lol, then omg lol.

Good post man.

AverageJo3Gam3r · October 2017

Unlike others in the thread (didn't read the full thread so sorry if I'm rehashing something), but the frags "nerf" is irrelevant. Rune prison will be an unavoidable cc that goes through block, and can easily be used to ensure a frag or a meteor lands. It will mean the entire sorc burst of curse+frag/meteor+fury will be undodgeable, unblockable, and unavoidable with no counterplay. I'm a longtime mDK so I know how powerful a well timed fossilize is for landing guaranteed hits on a target.

red_emu · October 2017

In next patch sorcerer will be removed from the game to create "a more interesting class choice"