PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Nightblades

DDuke · September 2017

D0PAMINE wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

The agony change is just bad why use a heal that hurts you.Change the base morph to a HOT that attach to you or a ally and one of the morph give minor mending.

You can cast it on yourself, meaning it'll both damage and heal you. It can be used to get Minor Mending as well as stacking Wrath & proccing "when you take dmg" sets such as Legion & Fury (latter only if the dmg can crit) and if the heal portion outweighs the dmg taken portion, that's pretty good.

Well said, I didnt consider that it could be used to proc certain sets. Interesting.

Well, that's how it should work if there was any consistency in game mechanics.

After testing it on PTS I can say it unfortunately doesn't proc any "when you take damage" sets or Wrath/Constitution.

LadyNalcarya · September 2017

I'm a bit worried about the new agony skill.
Nightblade is a tricky class to play, I see many new-ish player struggling with it, and I'm pretty sure that new players will end up killing themselves with that skill. I understand that it was meant to give nb healers a unique "flavour" ability, but it could've been something like a HoT that puts a minor lifesteal on nearby enemy or something.. That would also fit the "life drain" theme, but wouldnt kill anyone with Oblivion damage...
And after all, losing a healer in a DLC veteran dungeon can easily wipe an average group so I doubt it will be used as intended. Oblivion damage cant be mitigated with shields so its really dangerous for a 17k hp player that heals a 40k hp tank in Bloodroot forge (for example).

BohnT · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

The agony change is just bad why use a heal that hurts you.Change the base morph to a HOT that attach to you or a ally and one of the morph give minor mending.

You can cast it on yourself, meaning it'll both damage and heal you. It can be used to get Minor Mending as well as stacking Wrath & proccing "when you take dmg" sets such as Legion & Fury (latter only if the dmg can crit) and if the heal portion outweighs the dmg taken portion, that's pretty good.

Well said, I didnt consider that it could be used to proc certain sets. Interesting.

Well, that's how it should work if there was any consistency in game mechanics.

After testing it on PTS I can say it unfortunately doesn't proc any "when you take damage" sets or Wrath/Constitution.

There was a change that armor sets and passives won't proc on damage that you deal to yourself but i can't remember which patch it was

actosh · September 2017

It was when they changed equlibrium.
U could proc basicly a lot of sets with it.

Malacthulhu · September 2017

Make each healing tick also put a shield on the nightblade that stacks up and explodes doing damage based on how much it healed and dmged the nightblade .

norpor · September 2017

Ehh this changings is a joke. Blood magic is cool but self killing is unacceptable... Mass histeria nerf is a stupidness... Why call is MASS if that fear 2 enemyes??? LOL
Stamina nightblades still low dps, poor stamina recharge, and hard to play. Class skills costs too many resource.... Just few stamina based skill.... Siphonin strike is useless... Grim focus is hard to managge and not effective in pve / and very boring /..

actosh · September 2017

Malacthulhu wrote: »

Make each healing tick also put a shield on the nightblade that stacks up and explodes doing damage based on how much it healed and dmged the nightblade .

That would be awesome ^^

aeowulf · September 2017

So I hit dungeon finder on my lvl 48 tank yesterday (warden), was dumped in a group half way round ICP - immediate thought is 'do I just drop or give it a go'. One member was around 100 cp, one 40 ish cp and the third around lvl 20-30. They were dissing the previous tank, big time, it was quite embarrassing actually. Turned out he was a NB at around 200cp. Very rude of them tbh, but I'll defended anyone trying to be NB tank. It also occurred to me that NB tank is VERY tough to play. You cannot do this unless you know how to light attack weave, and it's even harder on a NB tank as you have blocks to weave in as well. Light attack weaving is an advanced skill in this game, and then filling the gaps with a block take it a step further. There is no opportunity for a NB tank to learn this and even once learnt, there is no benefit to a NB tank over another class. All that happens is they join a group, it all goes pear shaped, they get kicked or leave the group & end up slightly more disheartened with NB, tanking or ESO in general. Rinse & repeat. They either quit NB, quit tanking or quit ESO.

DK and certainly warden are easy mode tanks, and they are significantly better than NB. I was absolutely shocked when I saw wardens got Bull Netch gives stamina regen that works whilst blocking, major sorcery & brutality for ZERO cost! not saying wardens don't deserve/need that but...

I really would love to see someone at ZOS who plays tanks a lot to give NB tanking a go and then say 'yep, they are fine'...

Aeo

aeowulf · September 2017

Maybe an AE 'taunt' even though this is not what ZOS have put in the game previously. It's not like the root given to DK/Warden yet fits in very well with the siphoning skill line. Something that is centred on the caster maybe, or something that ticks every second affecting only the furthest untaunted mob from the caster?

Kolzki · September 2017

It doesn't sound much like a nightblade to sacrifice themselves. Perhaps make the skill purge itself if you drop below 25% health? That would still leave the caster vulnerable without directly killing themselves.

Or give it a second cast option to cancel the skill and also purge other negative effects? That would be cool.

H4RDFOX · September 2017

Yea, I can't support ZOS on this change to NBs CC Mass Hysteria. However you give DKs and Sorcs unblockable/undodgeable buffs. Mass Hysteria isn't mass no longer with only two enemies affected. Unless I can cast multiple times and affect two new enemies this change is a major nerf to a class that has to work extra hard to eliminate their target.

kaithuzar · September 2017

Honestly I want to know how nightblades can go from the class with the best CC to the class with the 2nd worst CC & be expected to compete.

I've really tried adapting my playstyle to using flame clench instead of agony but I absolutely can not stand having my attacks reflected back at me.
If crushing shock or meteor we're still reflectable I wouldn't be using those skills either & would've stuck to duel wield rather than using a destro staff.

What takes skill is being able to setup that perfect damage burst + CC combo against someone who would generally survive all of your incoming damage whether it be through blocking, healing, etc..
Nobody wants to watch or be in a fight with two tanks holding block, or spamming heals & nobody is doing any damage to the other.
Nightblades inherently do not have this tankiness, nor do we have the heals for it, & I for one don't even want to play like that. If I did I would've rolled a DK or Templar.
I'm fine with using fear instead of agony (assuming ZOS takes the current working version of agony away); except for the fact that they're nerfing fear too!
Zenimax, stop completely changing skills & abilities! Tune them, yes, tweak them, sure, but stop completely changing what a skills entire functionality is/was meant for!

Vovik · September 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Impale (execute) pulls nightblades out of cloak. Spammed this ability on a friend who was spamming cloak and he couldn't cloak 75% of the time.

exeeter702 · September 2017

kaithuzar wrote: »

Honestly I want to know how nightblades can go from the class with the best CC to the class with the 2nd worst CC & be expected to compete.

I've really tried adapting my playstyle to using flame clench instead of agony but I absolutely can not stand having my attacks reflected back at me.
If crushing shock or meteor we're still reflectable I wouldn't be using those skills either & would've stuck to duel wield rather than using a destro staff.

What takes skill is being able to setup that perfect damage burst + CC combo against someone who would generally survive all of your incoming damage whether it be through blocking, healing, etc..
Nobody wants to watch or be in a fight with two tanks holding block, or spamming heals & nobody is doing any damage to the other.
Nightblades inherently do not have this tankiness, nor do we have the heals for it, & I for one don't even want to play like that. If I did I would've rolled a DK or Templar.
I'm fine with using fear instead of agony (assuming ZOS takes the current working version of agony away); except for the fact that they're nerfing fear too!
Zenimax, stop completely changing skills & abilities! Tune them, yes, tweak them, sure, but stop completely changing what a skills entire functionality is/was meant for!

Lol.. how wrong you are.

kaithuzar · September 2017

exeeter702 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Honestly I want to know how nightblades can go from the class with the best CC to the class with the 2nd worst CC & be expected to compete.

I've really tried adapting my playstyle to using flame clench instead of agony but I absolutely can not stand having my attacks reflected back at me.
If crushing shock or meteor we're still reflectable I wouldn't be using those skills either & would've stuck to duel wield rather than using a destro staff.

What takes skill is being able to setup that perfect damage burst + CC combo against someone who would generally survive all of your incoming damage whether it be through blocking, healing, etc..
Nobody wants to watch or be in a fight with two tanks holding block, or spamming heals & nobody is doing any damage to the other.
Nightblades inherently do not have this tankiness, nor do we have the heals for it, & I for one don't even want to play like that. If I did I would've rolled a DK or Templar.
I'm fine with using fear instead of agony (assuming ZOS takes the current working version of agony away); except for the fact that they're nerfing fear too!
Zenimax, stop completely changing skills & abilities! Tune them, yes, tweak them, sure, but stop completely changing what a skills entire functionality is/was meant for!

Lol.. how wrong you are.

When I say we don't have the heals for it, I mean we don't have major mending.

Go put on troll king, cleanse/purify from the alliance war tree, run an argonian, & tell me how many block knight dk's & templars you kill while pretending to be a magplar yourself.

exeeter702 · September 2017

kaithuzar wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Honestly I want to know how nightblades can go from the class with the best CC to the class with the 2nd worst CC & be expected to compete.

I've really tried adapting my playstyle to using flame clench instead of agony but I absolutely can not stand having my attacks reflected back at me.
If crushing shock or meteor we're still reflectable I wouldn't be using those skills either & would've stuck to duel wield rather than using a destro staff.

What takes skill is being able to setup that perfect damage burst + CC combo against someone who would generally survive all of your incoming damage whether it be through blocking, healing, etc..
Nobody wants to watch or be in a fight with two tanks holding block, or spamming heals & nobody is doing any damage to the other.
Nightblades inherently do not have this tankiness, nor do we have the heals for it, & I for one don't even want to play like that. If I did I would've rolled a DK or Templar.
I'm fine with using fear instead of agony (assuming ZOS takes the current working version of agony away); except for the fact that they're nerfing fear too!
Zenimax, stop completely changing skills & abilities! Tune them, yes, tweak them, sure, but stop completely changing what a skills entire functionality is/was meant for!

Lol.. how wrong you are.

When I say we don't have the heals for it, I mean we don't have major mending.

The only reliable on demand source source of major mending is dk. Warden has it situational, so i dont believe it should be part of the equation as mag DK is hardly notable in the healing department in pvp. Templar does not have major mending yet most consider them the premier pvp healer (entirely debatable).

exeeter702 · September 2017

@kaithuzar oh i agree completely.... a nb healer that tries to play like a templar healer would yeild pathetic results.

Its a good thing those that know to play nb healers dont dont this. And it seems you have yet to come across one if you believe they are some how budget templars.

Gilliamtherogue · September 2017

Feedback for Agony; I love the concept of Blood Magic. It is by far the most interesting and rewarding mechanic from a balance stand point. Risk and reward is something I strongly believe should be apart of most of the game, but with the new Agony we have too much risk (outside of solo play), with too little reward. Let's look at some of what this skill offers;

Pros;
-No Magicka/Stamina cost, borderline overpowered since the Morrowind sustain changes (which honestly can *** off).

-Powerful Magicka/Spell Damage scaling. Tack on NB's % amps and it's easy to get this TT pretty high.

-One and Done cast, 10 seconds of no brain healing- in solo play at least.

Cons;
- This skill deals OBLIVION damage to you; meaning it will prevent cloaking, and go through shielding and all forms of mitigation in game. This is extremely detrimental to the Nightblade playstyle in PvP, and competitive PvE environments.

- The health cost can easily kill us if placed on multiple targets, or when paired with high damaging mechanics. Good luck surviving HM trial mechanics+ Agony tick or something, or coordinated ultimate bursts in PvP.

- Compared to other healing, the constant drain of Health is out-shadowed by simpler, more efficient skills such as Rapid Regeneration, Living Trellis, or Purifying Ritual. The risk is not justified outside of solo play for this skill at the moment. -

-Minor Mending is strong, but % healing is not what holds the Nightblade back from becoming a powerful contender in PvE or PvP healing, it already has that. The class lacks any unique utility that enables more than just healing. We offer no powerful/efficient buffs that other classes cannot do more efficiently. Perhaps add a new buff that operates similarly to Minor Magickasteal to allies when afflicted with Agony's healing? A buff that allows players to drain 100 Magicka, Stamina, and Health every 2 seconds when dealing damage to a target perhaps? Minor Siphoning could be the name.

So what do we do? We have two routes; an easy one that will sate the players already interested in the skill, but still leave the Nightblade healer in the same place where it is today. This is an easy fix- instead of dealing damage each Heal tick, merely put a % Health cost on this skill. This sates the flavor of the skill, siphoning the caster's life to another. 20%-40% Health seems relatively balanced, as it's still a large enough loss to put risk on the skill so you can't spam it, or will punish players who cast it at improper times.

The other route deals with what I mentioned earlier; adding the resource management portion to the skill, or some unique mechanic that makes the Nightblade stand out from other healers. In the meta and ultimately overall health of a class, use is not determined by "what feels cool", but rather what is fun AND rewarding. Currently the same reward is given from this skill compared to any healer in the game; healing done. This unique interaction of constantly losing health (when used in a group setting) is not met with an equally unique reward, ultimately spelling the death of this skill outside of solo play.

Onto my next bit of discussion. Magicka and Stamina Nightblade DPS currently can pull off some relatively powerful feats while on a target dummy, but in real combat translations (primarily trials) we begin to struggle to manage a disordered rotation thanks to Grim Focus. Balancing resource management, staying alive from copious amounts of mechanics, and managing other DoTs/buffs makes it incredibly difficult to perfect weave and get multiple shots of the Spectral Bow. Nightblades have the hardest rotation in the game at the moment due to our poor synergy with Heavy Attacking (Leeching/Siphoning gives the same amount of resources and healing from a HA compared to a LA, we have no amps, and we lose Grim Focus stacks due to charge times) and overall squishiness. Here are some suggestions to help alleviate those issues, while still retaining Nightblade's difficult playstyle.

Grim Focus;

This skill alone makes the Nightblade so hard to successfully play, as it requires insane micromanagement of weaving + stacking, and is incredibly clunky due to its cast time.

Step 1 is removing the .1s cast from the Spectral Bow. Too many times I have succeeded in firing 5 LA/HA's off and pressed Grim Focus a millisecond too soon to let the server realize I had, forcing me to recast the buff instead of firing the damned bow. This also gives far too much of an indicator for enemies to dodge in PvP, which obliterates our ability to burst (decent) opponents outside of crowd control duration.

Step 2 is rewarding firing off the bow. I do not want a refresh to the entire duration of this skill. Instead I think that each successful fire of the bow should add duration to the remaining time of Minor Berserk and the Spectral Bow stacking mechanic. Ideally add a diminishing return to the added duration, so multiple firing doesn't grant indefinite up time. I think +6s for the first bow shot, +4s for the 2nd, +3s for the 3rd, and +2s for the 4th would be fine. That way you can at least get 1 or 2 extra shots out of the bow, with the chance to potentially gain 3 if you are a god.

Step 3 adds more counterplay to this skill once it has been reworked. Dodge rolling the Nightblade's Light/Heavy attacks should prevent a stack from applying. This helps emphasize the Nightblade's current playstyle of working off short windows of CC+burst. Since my previous suggestions remove some of the skill's current counterplay (removal of cast time), we need some back. A skill that can crit for over half of someone's life should be given a healthy amount of counterplay, and Dodge Rolling to prevent stacking will help with that. Obviously the Nightblade could use a little bit of help in other avenues, but I'll keep that for a future segment.

Passives;

Assassination

Currently there are 2 passives in this skill line that are target for some balancing, however on the opposite sides of the table. Master Assassin currently plays into a more toxic power spike that adds a little too much power onto one of the most frustrating aspects of the game; stealth play. Double stun duration out of an attack that already guarantees a stun is a bit absurd. Instead of increasing the duration of the stun, if it added 1-2 seconds of guaranteed stun that can't be broken, but also adding damage mitigation to the opponent so they aren't guaranteed to die. Nightblade's currently have a LOT of burst towards opponents who are CC'ed. This is a great concept since it helps fit into the assassin play style, and the fact that we fall over if someone farts in our general direction. The idea of forced CC is to help the Nightblade stick to a target who is innately hard to kill. It is insanely frustrating to kill a tank or healer (or both since that's pretty much every decent healer in PvP these days), even through CC. Draining resources of an opponent is impossible if they play properly, so they constantly have resources to break free. Forcing an unbreakable, yet short duration would enable the Nightblade to thrive against targets that get low Health. The damage mitigation should be applied to the opponent so that you can't 100%-0% them with this guaranteed stun, but still get a kill on someone who gets low health (~20%). There's no excuse why someone at death's door should be able to out heal an assassin. The damage mitigation granted by this stun should be higher at higher health, and lower at low health. Also putting a longer winded cooldown (10-20 seconds) on this mechanic would be wise.

The other passive is Executioner. This passive is grossly weak, even for Magicka Nightblades. 1876 Magicka over 6 seconds after killing something with an Assassination ability? That's less than an execute cost itself, over 6 seconds. Instead of proccing only on kill, I propose adding a mechanic that let's the user to restore 8% of their Magicka and Stamina after dealing a high amount of damage within 2 seconds to the opponent, with a decently long ICD (12-15 seconds). Obviously tether it to Assassination skills only still, but I think 30,000 or 40,000 would be a helpful number to hit in either PvE or PvP, so you have to get lucky enough to crit with both skills (since you only have time to fire off 2 due to the GCD), and line up burst. This also helps bring back Nightblades to their former identity, masters of resource management.

Shadow

Similarly to Assassination, we have one rebalance "nerf" and one "buff". Shadow Barrier is a great passive, however it's too strong for the damage dealer Nightblade. A core identity of this class is that we are inherently easy to kill if pinned down. Getting 8% damage mitigation across the board for actively using abilities we already actively use doesn't make much sense, at least from a DPS perspective. However, the Tank Nightblade should still have access to this skill. We already have a tank mechanic that is tied to heavy armor, so my proposal is to merely make this passive activate if you wear 5 or more pieces of Heavy Armor. If you wear Light or Medium armor, instead, this passive could give a damage shield for a very trivial amount. 10-20% of your damage of Shadow abilities is turned into a damage shield, capped at a maximum of 500-1000 (pre battle spirit). This should refresh every time Shadow damage is done, even if it means losing a larger shield. This helps the Nightblade retain squishiness, while still having a small rate of survival tethered to the flavor of this passive.

The other passive being Dark Veil. Instead of being a % have it increase duration of Shadow abilties by a flat second interval. If the duration is under 10 seconds, add only 1 second, and if at or above 10 seconds, add 2. This helps many of the skills that fall on fractions, since things like Path of Darkness/Veil deal damage in integers, yet this passive puts them on fractions instead.

Siphoning

While I do wish Magicka Flood also helped Stamina, I also understand that there should be some deviation from build specialization. If I were to get my wish of it applying to Stamina, I'd reduce the bonus of Stamina and Magicka amp to 6% instead though

Instead my main issue of these passives is Soul Siphoner. In PvE % healing amps are generally disliked, as they do not bring meaningful stats to the table. Overhealing is insanely evident to PvE, since next to no fights have constant damage that gets out of hands (aside from HM trials' execute phases, but even there % healing isn't a mandatory stat). My suggestion still retains a slight bonus to healing, but will go beyond that. Instead of increasing healing done by 2% per Siphoning ability slotted, I propose any resource increase (Healing, Stamina, and Magicka) done (so it applies to allies and ourselves) are increased by 1% per Siphoning ability slotted. This helps the Nightblade stand out in terms of utility, as they would offer the group slightly higher resource management (via orbs and my other proposed change to Agony/Offering), which would give them a very potent purpose in today's meta of group and solo play. Leaving it at 1% done per slotted will also prevent the Nightblade from going overboard, as you'd need to give up many bar slots to utilize this passive to a greater extent. It would also help Stamina Nightblades be able to use lesser efficient skills like Power Extraction, since they'd have added utility to make up for their lesser damaging impacts.

My dream is to see Nightblades brought to a healthy spot in the game, in both PvE and PvP. The class has never boasted anything fantastic in PvE, and is constantly fluctuating between too strong or too weak in PvP. Removing some of their most toxic aspects in PvP (while giving back more counter play and skill based power) and helping hammer out their awful kinks in PvE would do wonders. Assassins have always been extremely risk-reward based classes in gaming, and I yearn greatly to see more reward come to this class, while still having a large amount of learning and depth to the class. Thanks for reading.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · September 2017

Make one agony morph stay as is and the other morph be one of the new ones. Problem solved.

Remove fear nerf. Go back to 3 targets.

If you are going to keep going with manifestation of terror change make the terror mines activate either instantly or after 1 second. 3 seconds is rediculous for a class that is "mobile".

4 LA for spectral bow proc. 5 is one too many. Sometimes the game won't even count a hit and it's more like 6 hits. It's less reliable for melee in most of the cases I've used it. Works much better with ranged.

Increase resource return on siphoning and leeching. The skill is a mere shadow of its previous self. It also shouldn't cost anything to cast.

I use power extraction so don't get me wrong, but we need a skill we can use to give ourselves major brutality without having to hit someone first or depend on non class skills.

Mystrius_Archaion · September 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

So you can heal your group members, and kill yourself doing it.
Then they'll kick you from the dungeon while screaming L2P because you kept dying while they stayed alive.
I'm thinking this sounds pretty terrible. I can see ZERO reason to use that.

So now nbs have a class specific version of spell symmetry, lol.

Ahh yes, the reason I also don't take that Mage's Guild skill.
Did the devs even look at data for how many players take that skill also? Probably not.

aeowulf · September 2017

The siphoning skills really should not cost stamina to regen stamin or magicka to restore magicka, are we now the only class in the game where that's the case?

I'd like some sort of resource management, especially as NB went from the best (randomly) to the worst in this category literally overnight. Current thing is not usable by NB tanks. I'd like some sort of crowd control that's useful in PVE. NB CC has just been reduced by 50%, loosing agony & 1 of the 3 affected targets from hysteria. I'd like some sort of group utility for a tank to use. Right now NB tank lack in all three categories.

Grim focus i've tried to use in some trials and look at the counter a lot, it crawls up in melee, so i'm wondering if this is actually the case for the registered 'hits' with siphoning line too

RavenSworn · September 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

The heal for Malevolent Offering is actually quite high but still i don't see any real use for it. Why would i use as healer a skill that could kill you?

It's called playing smart. Yes it could kill you, but also the value of such a strong hot is inmense. Being able to support a group without sacrificing many skills into it allows you to pick more offensive skills. You could pretty much support a group of four with agony, funnel health and healing ward, and maybe some healing ults just by yourself under many circumstance. Honestly, as a mag warden main i'm quite jealous.

I have to agree with you. a double / triple cast of Offering with you using Soul Tether ( instead of the weak sauce Soul Siphon)with also Degeneration up on the boss while using Lightning heavy attack with Siphoning Strikes up? you don't even need to have springs. Rapid + Offering + Degeneration + Dark Cloak...

I honestly don't know why people are going up in arms for this change. Agony aside from PvP was almost exclusively never used. There is no reason to run this skill when damage will just break it on the target.

HOWEVER I personally think they should have included a small burst of aoe heal at the last tick of Healthy Offering. Just the mending is the not enough 'buff' for the skill. could do it like Rally, where you can activate the skill again once casted to burst through the healing, with the damage dealt equally as well.

I'm personally trying it out with Imperium on a stamblade tank. this should really make it interesting.

technohic · September 2017

Would be cool if you could select the tar

aeowulf wrote: »

The siphoning skills really should not cost stamina to regen stamin or magicka to restore magicka, are we now the only class in the game where that's the case?

I'd like some sort of resource management, especially as NB went from the best (randomly) to the worst in this category literally overnight. Current thing is not usable by NB tanks. I'd like some sort of crowd control that's useful in PVE. NB CC has just been reduced by 50%, loosing agony & 1 of the 3 affected targets from hysteria. I'd like some sort of group utility for a tank to use. Right now NB tank lack in all three categories.

Grim focus i've tried to use in some trials and look at the counter a lot, it crawls up in melee, so i'm wondering if this is actually the case for the registered 'hits' with siphoning line too

My Templar resource management tools are like that as well. It's why I use ele drain over aura. Focus cost is reduced from the unmorphed version and is OK. I do agree the cost is a little high for siphon.

crobarXIII · September 2017

Has anyone tried Malevolent Offering on a NB tank yet with about 16k magicka? Is the healing enough to drop a set like leeching or bahraha curse to be able to use a group buffing set?

kaithuzar · September 2017

RavenSworn wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

The heal for Malevolent Offering is actually quite high but still i don't see any real use for it. Why would i use as healer a skill that could kill you?

It's called playing smart. Yes it could kill you, but also the value of such a strong hot is inmense. Being able to support a group without sacrificing many skills into it allows you to pick more offensive skills. You could pretty much support a group of four with agony, funnel health and healing ward, and maybe some healing ults just by yourself under many circumstance. Honestly, as a mag warden main i'm quite jealous.

I have to agree with you. a double / triple cast of Offering with you using Soul Tether ( instead of the weak sauce Soul Siphon)with also Degeneration up on the boss while using Lightning heavy attack with Siphoning Strikes up? you don't even need to have springs. Rapid + Offering + Degeneration + Dark Cloak...

I honestly don't know why people are going up in arms for this change. Agony aside from PvP was almost exclusively never used. There is no reason to run this skill when damage will just break it on the target.

HOWEVER I personally think they should have included a small burst of aoe heal at the last tick of Healthy Offering. Just the mending is the not enough 'buff' for the skill. could do it like Rally, where you can activate the skill again once casted to burst through the healing, with the damage dealt equally as well.

I'm personally trying it out with Imperium on a stamblade tank. this should really make it interesting.

I'm personally getting really tired of people saying "oh agony, it's never been flavor of the month, I haven't seen any streamers use it, that's a skill??? QQQ..."

It's been stated multiple times that many players have utilized the skill while leveling their character.
If there are 3 enemies but you can't handle 3 enemies, but you can handle 2. Using agony effectively takes one add/mob/enemy out of the fight for 30 seconds!
Ever done vdsa? Ever done vma/vmsa?
Ever tried to solo content such as dungeons, dolmans, etc..?
Ever thought of using agony temporarily on the stranglers that pop up???
USE YOUR BRAINS! Stop just copying every streamer or youtuber you watch, I know it's hard but ACTUALLY READ, then think about what you read. I know it hurts but you'll get use to it.
Ever run into archers? Maybe they're too far to gap close? AGONY them until you get around to fighting in their direction!
I know this comes as a shock, but you can develop tactics & strategies outside of what might be displayed on the internet.

People are going "up in arms", because they have read and have developed tactics and strategies outside of the norm and have made the current skill an effective part of their play style; yet that playstyle is in jeopardy of being taken away.
Taking away an interesting skill because it "wasn't popular" among a majority that neglected to think for themselves, in my opinion, is like intentionally shunning creativity & the ability to be different. Being effective in your own way was the reason that brought many to ESO in the first place.
If this skill gets changed to lose the ability to cc at ranged, it will just be interpreted as Zenimax does not want, allow, or value creativity amongst its players/community and only strives to preserve the status quo.
There is no future for those who not only do not inspire creativity, but even less for those who would react negatively to it or shun it.

crobarXIII · September 2017

kaithuzar wrote: »

[
Ever tried to solo content such as dungeons, dolmans, etc..?

Wait!? Are yousaying dolmans are hard? I can solo dolmans & dungeons on all my dps, this includes my stamblade & it doesn't need agony to do it.

kaithuzar wrote: »

USE YOUR BRAINS! Stop just copying every streamer or youtuber you watch, I know it's hard but ACTUALLY READ, then think about what you read. I know it hurts but you'll get use to it.

1. Could you please not insult others
2. If you're have trouble solo dolmans maybe practice what you preach. After some work you should be able to solo dolmans

exeeter702 · September 2017

kaithuzar wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

The heal for Malevolent Offering is actually quite high but still i don't see any real use for it. Why would i use as healer a skill that could kill you?

It's called playing smart. Yes it could kill you, but also the value of such a strong hot is inmense. Being able to support a group without sacrificing many skills into it allows you to pick more offensive skills. You could pretty much support a group of four with agony, funnel health and healing ward, and maybe some healing ults just by yourself under many circumstance. Honestly, as a mag warden main i'm quite jealous.

I have to agree with you. a double / triple cast of Offering with you using Soul Tether ( instead of the weak sauce Soul Siphon)with also Degeneration up on the boss while using Lightning heavy attack with Siphoning Strikes up? you don't even need to have springs. Rapid + Offering + Degeneration + Dark Cloak...

I honestly don't know why people are going up in arms for this change. Agony aside from PvP was almost exclusively never used. There is no reason to run this skill when damage will just break it on the target.

HOWEVER I personally think they should have included a small burst of aoe heal at the last tick of Healthy Offering. Just the mending is the not enough 'buff' for the skill. could do it like Rally, where you can activate the skill again once casted to burst through the healing, with the damage dealt equally as well.

I'm personally trying it out with Imperium on a stamblade tank. this should really make it interesting.

I'm personally getting really tired of people saying "oh agony, it's never been flavor of the month, I haven't seen any streamers use it, that's a skill??? QQQ..."

It's been stated multiple times that many players have utilized the skill while leveling their character.
If there are 3 enemies but you can't handle 3 enemies, but you can handle 2. Using agony effectively takes one add/mob/enemy out of the fight for 30 seconds!
Ever done vdsa? Ever done vma/vmsa?
Ever tried to solo content such as dungeons, dolmans, etc..?
Ever thought of using agony temporarily on the stranglers that pop up???
USE YOUR BRAINS! Stop just copying every streamer or youtuber you watch, I know it's hard but ACTUALLY READ, then think about what you read. I know it hurts but you'll get use to it.
Ever run into archers? Maybe they're too far to gap close? AGONY them until you get around to fighting in their direction!
I know this comes as a shock, but you can develop tactics & strategies outside of what might be displayed on the internet.

People are going "up in arms", because they have read and have developed tactics and strategies outside of the norm and have made the current skill an effective part of their play style; yet that playstyle is in jeopardy of being taken away.
Taking away an interesting skill because it "wasn't popular" among a majority that neglected to think for themselves, in my opinion, is like intentionally shunning creativity & the ability to be different. Being effective in your own way was the reason that brought many to ESO in the first place.
If this skill gets changed to lose the ability to cc at ranged, it will just be interpreted as Zenimax does not want, allow, or value creativity amongst its players/community and only strives to preserve the status quo.
There is no future for those who not only do not inspire creativity, but even less for those who would react negatively to it or shun it.

With all due respect, labeling those that deemed the skill obsolete or ineffective as unwilling to "think for themselves" is incredibly disingenuous. I would even posit that its the inexperienced players that place too much useless stock into said skills. There are plenty of knowledgeable people in this game who are in a position to pick apart the varioud abilities in this game and come to reasonable conclusions as to which are simply outclassed and or obsolete vs others.

Your example of eliminating a single target so you can handle a pull, while reasonable in paper, is laughable. Ostensibly, at some point that was the intention of agony and other skills of its kind for pve at least, having a tool that removes a target from a pull. Over time this concept is completely pointless, group dungeons do not require that burning crusade heroics level of mob cc to clear hard pve group content. And for solo, you would be incredibly naive to think a single skill should be exclusivley tuned around solo content. Even in the days of VR, these hard pve mob CC abilities hardly earned a slot on your bar. Never once in my time playing this game since beta and early launch was i ever in need of such a tool.

For agony specifically, the damage it had baked into it was terrible, and since it broke on damage, its application in pvp was severely limited. Yes the garunteed stun in combination with its speed allowed for certain combos to work but even those are highly specific and circumstantial.

You are essentially advocating that zos allow a particlular skill take up a spot in a skill line exclusivley to cater to players of a lower level.

To say the thought oriented players are being punished because the majority of players cant think for themselves and deem the skill worthless and then go on to give an example about how the skill assists in doing content solo is what speaks volumes here....

You balance skills for the highest level of play, where it would be used to its fullest, then let it trickle down the totem pole for everyone. If you put training wheels on a skill, it will see no play for the large majority of the player base. The simple truth is that the skill was simply not used for a reason. At some point players improve and begin to realize said skills do not have a use to jusitfy slotting them. No one here is failing to understand agony's nuance.

kaithuzar · September 2017

crobarXIII wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

[
Ever tried to solo content such as dungeons, dolmans, etc..?

Wait!? Are yousaying dolmans are hard? I can solo dolmans & dungeons on all my dps, this includes my stamblade & it doesn't need agony to do it.

kaithuzar wrote: »

USE YOUR BRAINS! Stop just copying every streamer or youtuber you watch, I know it's hard but ACTUALLY READ, then think about what you read. I know it hurts but you'll get use to it.

1. Could you please not insult others
2. If you're have trouble solo dolmans maybe practice what you preach. After some work you should be able to solo dolmans

I'm sorry, you must have started this game with a level 50 toon & max cp right?
I'm trying to speak up for the players who aren't max level or may have never even been to these forums.
I listed a number of places where it's viable, I did not state all of them were specifically viable for me, nor did I state that you "must" run agony. Only that taking it away is diminishing valid creativity amongst playstyle.
Also I didn't name any names, I merely stated more people need to think for themselves, it's not illegal; yet.

olsborg · September 2017

A big step in the right direction would be to make the new healing skill scale off the highest stat, and to make siph passive also increase stam by 8%, not only magicka. Seriously, the entire siphoning tree is 90% magblade only.

crobarXIII · September 2017

kaithuzar wrote: »

crobarXIII wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

[
Ever tried to solo content such as dungeons, dolmans, etc..?

Wait!? Are yousaying dolmans are hard? I can solo dolmans & dungeons on all my dps, this includes my stamblade & it doesn't need agony to do it.

kaithuzar wrote: »

USE YOUR BRAINS! Stop just copying every streamer or youtuber you watch, I know it's hard but ACTUALLY READ, then think about what you read. I know it hurts but you'll get use to it.

1. Could you please not insult others
2. If you're have trouble solo dolmans maybe practice what you preach. After some work you should be able to solo dolmans

I'm sorry, you must have started this game with a level 50 toon & max cp right?
I'm trying to speak up for the players who aren't max level or may have never even been to these forums.
I listed a number of places where it's viable, I did not state all of them were specifically viable for me, nor did I state that you "must" run agony. Only that taking it away is diminishing valid creativity amongst playstyle.
Also I didn't name any names, I merely stated more people need to think for themselves, it's not illegal; yet.

Of course not, I just realize how important stamina recovery, heavy attacks, strife, brawler, killer's blade & bomdard were to staying alive early on when I first started playing the game