ESO has a terrible first impression to new comer
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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Please dont start with that, millenials are not to blame for everything. Not to mention teenages now adays are not millenials, and those are the generation of gimme gimme when it comes to gaming.Edited by Jade1986 on September 18, 2017 1:20PM0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
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At best, and this is a stretch, a little more emphasis on /help and the associated tabs could be beneficial and part of a tutorial.WoW has some nice explainings for new players
why not ESO?
Perhaps you could even be required to look up some topic and provide an answer, to prevent people from simply continue-ing their way past what they should probably be paying attention to.
I'm pretty sure terminology and roles are defined within, giving you access to more information if you need it.
A big part of this game, as with its standalone predecessors, is discovery through doing. Aside from A.C. and weaving*, the rest can be picked up by playing and/or talking with more experienced players.
*The only reason why I recommend this initially be tutorial based is because one could get direct feedback from the client/game engine regarding timing, etc. Having it explained how it works and having the game step by step show you with timing feedback, etc, are two very different things.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
Defilted✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have never played a MMO that has explained all the core mechanics in a tutorial. I have been playing them since the 90's. The internet/player community has always done this work.XBOX NA
XBOX Series X
#NightmareBear2 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭
Can you stop saying that the in game tutorial is super in depth, please? Because it's clearly outdated at best, and misleading as worst. I laughed my arse off when I saw you wrote how "in depth" the tutorial is, but now it's not even funny anymore.0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Can you stop saying that the in game tutorial is super in depth, please? Because it's clearly outdated at best, and misleading as worst. I laughed my arse off when I saw you wrote how "in depth" the tutorial is, but now it's not even funny anymore.
Can you please stop telling other people to stop expressing their opinions simply because you disagree with them and you've completely run out of arguments ?
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Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
Can you stop saying that the in game tutorial is super in depth, please? Because it's clearly outdated at best, and misleading as worst. I laughed my arse off when I saw you wrote how "in depth" the tutorial is, but now it's not even funny anymore.
Can you please stop telling other people to stop expressing their opinions simply because you disagree with them and you've completely run out of arguments ?
And now you're preventing me from express my opinion. Tell me, how can you look at something so bare bone, outdated, lazily written and sometime misleading, to the point where there're a lot people telling you how wrong it it, but you still cover your eyes and ears, and whisper to yourself "this is fine, nothing is wrong, I'm not wrong". I'm not mad, nor trying to prove myself to be a better man, I'm just confused on how blindly defensive you are.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And now you're preventing me from express my opinion. Tell me, how can you look at something so bare bone, outdated, lazily written and sometime misleading, to the point where there're a lot people telling you how wrong it it, but you still cover your eyes and ears, and whisper to yourself "this is fine, nothing is wrong, I'm not wrong". I'm not mad, nor trying to prove myself to be a better man, I'm just confused on how blindly defensive you are.- Telling others to shut up is not an opinion. All I ask of you is to defend your opinions constructively, instead of telling others to stop defending theirs.
- The ingame tutorial, in my opinion, isn't bare-bone, nor outdated, nor lazily written. It sure could be better, like anything could be better, but having a better tutorial will in my opinion not help anyone further because people who don't want tutorials just don't want them, no matter how good or bad they are.
- I don't see a lot of people telling me or anyone how wrong it is. In fact I haven't heard ANYONE, be it on forums, chat groups or ingame, complain about the ingame tutorial. You are the one basing yourself on a few steam comments to make your point and think you're right.
- I think people who are actually playing the game are a MUCH better source of feedback than the ones who stopped playing it after 30 minutes and declared it boring.
- I wonder why you persist in this attitude "This is bad, this is so wrong, they're all wrong, I'm so right, and ESO and the real world are both going to disintegrate if I can't make my point".
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Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I seriously don't understand how people come to the conclusion that AC is good, or intended, or even embraced.
Part of skill balance is ability to push out a comparable amount of damage over a common period of time. Skill A may push out 50k in 10 seconds with 10 activations - 10k per button - and to balance that skill B can be calibrated to push out 20k per button but has an expected duration of 2 seconds per button... bringing it into perfect balance against skill A. Each pushes out 50k in 10 seconds.
Cancelling any part of skill B, to shorten it to under those 2 seconds, creates an imbalance.
Fitting skill B's 20k plus a light attack into those 2 seconds effectively damages the balance of that combat system.
Part of each skill is the animation that displays it on screen. It takes work to make the animation, effort to instruct the movement of each joint of the character model in a specific pace of timing, to render it for play.
It's a simple test of basic thinking - why would they put in that work if they wanted you to cancel it off the screen?
The answer is of course they want their work to be on the screen! Of course they want the animation to play out! But they have accepted that there is a way to kill the work they put into that animation, and thus also to create an imbalance in the system, causing continual tweaks and maintenance as they balance at least 2 versions of each skill - the full intended animation version and the cancelled animation version.
The timing discrepancy that creates the loophole of animation canceling has deep roots. It's like the old tree next to the house that continually causes home maintenance as the leaves drop into the rain gutters, but the roots go under the foundation so pulling it out could take a massive amount of work while still not preventing a big impact on the home itself. That's the situation of animation canceling - constant source of extra pain-in-the-arse work but too deeply embedded in the code for a confident removal.Xbox NA1 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »And now you're preventing me from express my opinion. Tell me, how can you look at something so bare bone, outdated, lazily written and sometime misleading, to the point where there're a lot people telling you how wrong it it, but you still cover your eyes and ears, and whisper to yourself "this is fine, nothing is wrong, I'm not wrong". I'm not mad, nor trying to prove myself to be a better man, I'm just confused on how blindly defensive you are.
- Telling others to shut up is not an opinion. All I ask of you is to defend your opinions constructively, instead of telling others to stop defending theirs.
- The ingame tutorial, in my opinion, isn't bare-bone, nor outdated, nor lazily written. It sure could be better, like anything could be better, but having a better tutorial will in my opinion not help anyone further because people who don't want tutorials just don't want them, no matter how good or bad they are.
- I don't see a lot of people telling me or anyone how wrong it is. In fact I haven't heard ANYONE, be it on forums, chat groups or ingame, complain about the ingame tutorial. You are the one basing yourself on a few steam comments to make your point and think you're right.
- I think people who are actually playing the game are a MUCH better source of feedback than the ones who stopped playing it after 30 minutes and declared it boring.
- I wonder why you persist in this attitude "This is bad, this is so wrong, they're all wrong, I'm so right, and ESO and the real world are both going to disintegrate if I can't make my point".
1. I did not tell anyone to shut up. I told someone to stop using 1 excuse over and over again, after being proven wrong, not by only me, but by others also.
2. While I do respect your opinion, I've seen tons of people being turned off in just a few hours for just how lack luster those few hours are. Luckily, after I explained ESO in depth for those players, they actually started to like the game a lot. So no, I don't think that they don't want to learn, but they simply believed that there's nothing to be learnt to begin with, since the game show no sign of advance or in depth mechanic.
3. Over 5000 people on Steam, plus 100+ guild members I've interact isn't a small number to me. I do research.
4. Again, the article say "first impression", I do not criticize ESO as a whole. If I hate the game after 3000+ hours played, I won't even bother taking my time here, trying to give out the perspective of new players for the game to improve upon.
5. If I do pose my attitude like that, then I'm sorry, for it's not my intention. I simply look at the tutorial, which is made for new players, then ask those new players about how they feel about it. And when most of them say that they hate it, I concluded that there's something wrong about it. Veteran players can say that "it's totally fine by me", but the fact is, veteran players are not the target audience for the tutorial, but the new players.0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Not everybody has to like this game. If ESO is not your type of game there is no amount of guidance that will change it. And not everybody likes MMOs to begin with.
The game shows you where the skills are and how to use them. If you still resort to spamming light attacks then you're simply not trying.
As far as I understand it was the vision of the game designers to unite both single player offline Skyrim players (ESO overland and delve content) with classic mmorpg players (ESO group dungeons-trials or any content that requires the holy trinity of tank-healer-dps)
The basic training you suggest is indeed missing from the game but is not required for the entire game, only for the group content part where it matters. Therefore the only thing missing is a MANDATORY achievment of completing a (not so easy) tutorial for each role you whish to queue as. If you haven't succesfully completed the "Tank tutorial" where you have to save a bunch of npc's from dying by the hand of agroing mobs that role should simply be greyed out with "you must first complete the Tank role tutorial". Idem for dps and healer roles. Difficulty should be maelstrom level vet for vet group dungeons, normal for normal dungeons.
@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
Can you stop saying that the in game tutorial is super in depth, please? Because it's clearly outdated at best, and misleading as worst. I laughed my arse off when I saw you wrote how "in depth" the tutorial is, but now it's not even funny anymore.
Can you please stop telling other people to stop expressing their opinions simply because you disagree with them and you've completely run out of arguments ?
They are literally complaining for the sake of complaining now.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
Can you stop saying that the in game tutorial is super in depth, please? Because it's clearly outdated at best, and misleading as worst. I laughed my arse off when I saw you wrote how "in depth" the tutorial is, but now it's not even funny anymore.
Can you please stop telling other people to stop expressing their opinions simply because you disagree with them and you've completely run out of arguments ?
And now you're preventing me from express my opinion. Tell me, how can you look at something so bare bone, outdated, lazily written and sometime misleading, to the point where there're a lot people telling you how wrong it it, but you still cover your eyes and ears, and whisper to yourself "this is fine, nothing is wrong, I'm not wrong". I'm not mad, nor trying to prove myself to be a better man, I'm just confused on how blindly defensive you are.
Like 1 person aside from you has said that. And even that is a stretch.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »And now you're preventing me from express my opinion. Tell me, how can you look at something so bare bone, outdated, lazily written and sometime misleading, to the point where there're a lot people telling you how wrong it it, but you still cover your eyes and ears, and whisper to yourself "this is fine, nothing is wrong, I'm not wrong". I'm not mad, nor trying to prove myself to be a better man, I'm just confused on how blindly defensive you are.- Telling others to shut up is not an opinion. All I ask of you is to defend your opinions constructively, instead of telling others to stop defending theirs.
- The ingame tutorial, in my opinion, isn't bare-bone, nor outdated, nor lazily written. It sure could be better, like anything could be better, but having a better tutorial will in my opinion not help anyone further because people who don't want tutorials just don't want them, no matter how good or bad they are.
- I don't see a lot of people telling me or anyone how wrong it is. In fact I haven't heard ANYONE, be it on forums, chat groups or ingame, complain about the ingame tutorial. You are the one basing yourself on a few steam comments to make your point and think you're right.
- I think people who are actually playing the game are a MUCH better source of feedback than the ones who stopped playing it after 30 minutes and declared it boring.
- I wonder why you persist in this attitude "This is bad, this is so wrong, they're all wrong, I'm so right, and ESO and the real world are both going to disintegrate if I can't make my point".
1. I did not tell anyone to shut up. I told someone to stop using 1 excuse over and over again, after being proven wrong, not by only me, but by others also.
2. While I do respect your opinion, I've seen tons of people being turned off in just a few hours for just how lack luster those few hours are. Luckily, after I explained ESO in depth for those players, they actually started to like the game a lot. So no, I don't think that they don't want to learn, but they simply believed that there's nothing to be learnt to begin with, since the game show no sign of advance or in depth mechanic.
3. Over 5000 people on Steam, plus 100+ guild members I've interact isn't a small number to me. I do research.
4. Again, the article say "first impression", I do not criticize ESO as a whole. If I hate the game after 3000+ hours played, I won't even bother taking my time here, trying to give out the perspective of new players for the game to improve upon.
5. If I do pose my attitude like that, then I'm sorry, for it's not my intention. I simply look at the tutorial, which is made for new players, then ask those new players about how they feel about it. And when most of them say that they hate it, I concluded that there's something wrong about it. Veteran players can say that "it's totally fine by me", but the fact is, veteran players are not the target audience for the tutorial, but the new players.
Did you bother to show them the in game manual? No? Then that is your fault, not the games.3 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. I did not tell anyone to shut up. I told someone to stop using 1 excuse over and over again, after being proven wrong, not by only me, but by others also.
Noone has been proven wrong by anyone. It's all an exchange of opinions and subjective appreciations of the ingame tutorial. If anything, YOU have been proven wrong when you said that animation cancelling was a key intended feature of ESO. Which it objectively never was.
Specifically regarding tutorials in MMOs, I can't say much since ESO is my first and only MMO, but obviously people's opinions differ too. Some say "no MMO ever had any in-depth tutorial", others say "SWL or WOW had great tutorials". No consensus here.2. While I do respect your opinion, I've seen tons of people being turned off in just a few hours for just how lack luster those few hours are. Luckily, after I explained ESO in depth for those players, they actually started to like the game a lot. So no, I don't think that they don't want to learn, but they simply believed that there's nothing to be learnt to begin with, since the game show no sign of advance or in depth mechanic.
Yeah. Tell children there's spinach for dinner. They'll whine and not eat. Make your spinach better : they'll still whine and not eat. Make the best spinach in the world : they'll STILL whine and not eat.
Hide the spinach in spaghetti and serve it with ketchup : they'll eat and love it.
Your example does NOT prove that the ingame tutorial is bad or insufficient. It proves that people hate tutorials and prefer to get stuff explained by fellow players, in a customized manner.3. Over 5000 people on Steam, plus 100+ guild members I've interact isn't a small number to me. I do research.
If you had done ANY reliable research regarding ESO you wouldn't say that A/C is an intended design, and you would not ask @Nifty2g to prove that he's a good player.
As to the people you talk to, it's well known (as a cognitive bias) that people in the same interaction area tend to unify their opinions - but that doesn't make said opinion anywhere closer to the truth.4. Again, the article say "first impression", I do not criticize ESO as a whole. If I hate the game after 3000+ hours played, I won't even bother taking my time here, trying to give out the perspective of new players for the game to improve upon.
5. If I do pose my attitude like that, then I'm sorry, for it's not my intention. I simply look at the tutorial, which is made for new players, then ask those new players about how they feel about it. And when most of them say that they hate it, I concluded that there's something wrong about it.
See spinach analogy.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on September 18, 2017 3:56PM1 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »If you think ESO has it bad, you should see SWTOR. Funnily enough, even with the bad reviews, SWTOR is arguably at its peak right now.
I don't see how you can conclude that going from over 400 Servers at launch (200+ in both the US and Europe) to just 17 servers now, the majority of which are only Lightly Populated, and constant calls on the Forums for MORE Server Mergers, as being "arguably at its peak". There's no argument to be had - it ISN'T anywhere close to its peak.
SWTOR is in decline, another patch of no better quality than the last two and it will be in free fall.
The new lead Producer has failed to capitalise on the good-will he was given by the player-base for replacing the bumbling idiot Ben Irving, and rather that reversing the worst of Irving's choices on game direction is intent on seeing them through to their logical conclusion - which almost everyone except Bioware understands is the closing of the servers.
If Keith had delivered even 30% of the vision he was promoting in his introductory post as SWTOR Lead Producer he may have managed to turn this ice-berg destined ship around, but in reality he hasn't even managed 10%.
All The Best
Any MMO is in decline right now, as the focus has changed from providing a good game to making as much money as possible in a short amount of time without any regard to the players. And it gets punished pretty hard atm. Upside of ESO is that you dont have to sub like most other mmo's have. And the ones that are free are 100% pay-to-win, wich isnt what people want either.
In a nut shell you hit the nail on the head. Mmo design was concept of 10 year life cycle. They would emerge and expand with each content up date. Emerge would be expanding on base game systems, AA ,new classes , expanded combat.expanded races and fluff this design made for stronger comunties and game longevity. MMOS Now are designe for large short term returns focusing on cash shops and easy made content to charge for. The game system does not really emerge it stays stagnant with resets as its primary way to keep players interested instead of new abilities and emerging classes and game play.
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Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqyc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8UlwEdited by Nifty2g on September 18, 2017 4:27PM#MOREORBS1 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqychttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Somehow seeing the videos made me sad on how they screwed up the combat with the morrowind update.Edited by Zer0oo on September 18, 2017 5:54PM
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus3 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
In my eyes the game was at it's best. Fast paced, Incredible group work with how classes synergise together.
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqychttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Somehow seeing the videos made me sad on how the screwed up the combat with the morrowind update.
Don't remind me what Morrowind did. If they had just brought in the Stamina DPS changes with Morrowind I think the game would have been perfect. With a few set changes included.
#MOREORBS2 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭
In my eyes the game was at it's best. Fast paced, Incredible group work with how classes synergise together.
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqychttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Somehow seeing the videos made me sad on how the screwed up the combat with the morrowind update.
Don't remind me what Morrowind did. If they had just brought in the Stamina DPS changes with Morrowind I think the game would have been perfect. With a few set changes included.
Group dynamics have suffered horribly. Its beem a steady decline though since orsi. Imperial city had its problems but the game was far better then then post tam 1. Morrowind just magnified it0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqychttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Hold up, when did I told you about the casting abilities on top of each other? Also, light attack in between is a form of animation canceling. You can call it weaving or micro, but at its core, it's animation canceling.
Also, why are we arguing about this? This is way off topic.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
Can you stop saying that the in game tutorial is super in depth, please? Because it's clearly outdated at best, and misleading as worst. I laughed my arse off when I saw you wrote how "in depth" the tutorial is, but now it's not even funny anymore.
Can you please stop telling other people to stop expressing their opinions simply because you disagree with them and you've completely run out of arguments ?
He states why. And he's correct, that the turorial is horribly out of date.
Can you stop trying to white knight for a game and personally insult/discredit anyone who has the audacity to be a critic? If anyone hasn't any arguements, it's the man who's just trying to slander others and nothing else.
Sidenote: Things the game tutorial does not teach despite being fairly vital information:
-Stats being tied to DPS of abilities with that stat. Tooltips do. But I raised this point ages ago, nobody looks at those tooltips.
-Animation canceling. (Which we've established is basicly required now for high level play.)
-Heavy attacks restoring stamina/magicka. (You might notice. But given the game makes a big deal about it now, it's weird it does not say anything.)Edited by Doctordarkspawn on September 18, 2017 5:31PM0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It's like you can't read, they forced light attack animations quite awhile ago. I literally showed you a video on how it used to be before it was forced.
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqychttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Hold up, when did I told you about the casting abilities on top of each other? Also, light attack in between is a form of animation canceling. You can call it weaving or micro, but at its core, it's animation canceling.
Also, why are we arguing about this? This is way off topic.
It's no where near how it used to be in terms of animation cancelling. It's animation is now forced but it shares a different cooldown than abilities do.
You need to do quite a bit of research and stop being so ignorant.#MOREORBS0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »Not everybody has to like this game. If ESO is not your type of game there is no amount of guidance that will change it. And not everybody likes MMOs to begin with.
The game shows you where the skills are and how to use them. If you still resort to spamming light attacks then you're simply not trying.
As far as I understand it was the vision of the game designers to unite both single player offline Skyrim players (ESO overland and delve content) with classic mmorpg players (ESO group dungeons-trials or any content that requires the holy trinity of tank-healer-dps)
The basic training you suggest is indeed missing from the game but is not required for the entire game, only for the group content part where it matters. Therefore the only thing missing is a MANDATORY achievment of completing a (not so easy) tutorial for each role you whish to queue as. If you haven't succesfully completed the "Tank tutorial" where you have to save a bunch of npc's from dying by the hand of agroing mobs that role should simply be greyed out with "you must first complete the Tank role tutorial". Idem for dps and healer roles. Difficulty should be maelstrom level vet for vet group dungeons, normal for normal dungeons.
@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert
If that was the goal, it was an idiotic goal. Those audiences were never compatable to begin with. And that audience has left by now.0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »1. I did not tell anyone to shut up. I told someone to stop using 1 excuse over and over again, after being proven wrong, not by only me, but by others also.
Noone has been proven wrong by anyone. It's all an exchange of opinions and subjective appreciations of the ingame tutorial. If anything, YOU have been proven wrong when you said that animation cancelling was a key intended feature of ESO. Which it objectively never was.
Specifically regarding tutorials in MMOs, I can't say much since ESO is my first and only MMO, but obviously people's opinions differ too. Some say "no MMO ever had any in-depth tutorial", others say "SWL or WOW had great tutorials". No consensus here.2. While I do respect your opinion, I've seen tons of people being turned off in just a few hours for just how lack luster those few hours are. Luckily, after I explained ESO in depth for those players, they actually started to like the game a lot. So no, I don't think that they don't want to learn, but they simply believed that there's nothing to be learnt to begin with, since the game show no sign of advance or in depth mechanic.
Yeah. Tell children there's spinach for dinner. They'll whine and not eat. Make your spinach better : they'll still whine and not eat. Make the best spinach in the world : they'll STILL whine and not eat.
Hide the spinach in spaghetti and serve it with ketchup : they'll eat and love it.
Your example does NOT prove that the ingame tutorial is bad or insufficient. It proves that people hate tutorials and prefer to get stuff explained by fellow players, in a customized manner.3. Over 5000 people on Steam, plus 100+ guild members I've interact isn't a small number to me. I do research.
If you had done ANY reliable research regarding ESO you wouldn't say that A/C is an intended design, and you would not ask @Nifty2g to prove that he's a good player.
As to the people you talk to, it's well known (as a cognitive bias) that people in the same interaction area tend to unify their opinions - but that doesn't make said opinion anywhere closer to the truth.4. Again, the article say "first impression", I do not criticize ESO as a whole. If I hate the game after 3000+ hours played, I won't even bother taking my time here, trying to give out the perspective of new players for the game to improve upon.
5. If I do pose my attitude like that, then I'm sorry, for it's not my intention. I simply look at the tutorial, which is made for new players, then ask those new players about how they feel about it. And when most of them say that they hate it, I concluded that there's something wrong about it.
See spinach analogy.
First you assume that what @laced claim on the "in depth tutorial" was true, then assume that the players that gave out bad reviews are simply lazy, with or without tutorial, and now you're using my lack of knowledge from a totally different topic to accuse me of misinformed. I'm sorry to say this but I give up. It's like everytime I try to make a logical point, you try bash it back with assumption, prediction and personal references. "Players will not even bother with tutorial, even if you try". How would know that? So maybe I don't know that much about animation canceling, but does it has any effect on my ability to ask and collect data from people?
I'm sorry, but if keep on bumping excuses, personal theories and any kind of way to prove me wrong, then we should just agree to disagree, cause I cannot argue with someone which such attitude. You can call me a cheat, a liar, a coward, whatever, I'm just avoiding a fight that I know I can't win, not just by blogging on this forum.
But to conclude, I want to re-state something I've said: Your argument is meaningless. If you can prove me wrong, then nothing will be done, everything will go back to the way it is, no improvement what so ever. There'll always be players trying out the game, then quit in just 5 hours for the terrible first impression, then bump out bad reviews after bad reviews (as the time I'm writing this, the reviews on Steam has reached mixed status, that's not a good marketing score. But if I can bump this message to ZOS, then we can hopefully get rid of those bad reviews. Sure, it'll not 100% working, but at least we have a better chance than just doing nothing. If you still don't understand how meaningless your action are, then I'll say good day sir.2 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭
It's like you can't read, they forced light attack animations quite awhile ago. I literally showed you a video on how it used to be before it was forced.
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqychttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Hold up, when did I told you about the casting abilities on top of each other? Also, light attack in between is a form of animation canceling. You can call it weaving or micro, but at its core, it's animation canceling.
Also, why are we arguing about this? This is way off topic.
It's no where near how it used to be in terms of animation cancelling. It's animation is now forced but it shares a different cooldown than abilities do.
You need to do quite a bit of research and stop being so ignorant.
I don't care about the global cooldown, I've never said anything about global cooldown. I don't care if it's a lot less effective than it use to. What I care is that you still need some kind or form of animation canceling. I don't care if it's light attack in between skills, or skills + bar swap, or light attack + skills +bash, they are all animation canceling. It is still essential to ESO, you cannot be high tier players without some kind of animation canceling.0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »And now you're preventing me from express my opinion. Tell me, how can you look at something so bare bone, outdated, lazily written and sometime misleading, to the point where there're a lot people telling you how wrong it it, but you still cover your eyes and ears, and whisper to yourself "this is fine, nothing is wrong, I'm not wrong". I'm not mad, nor trying to prove myself to be a better man, I'm just confused on how blindly defensive you are.
- Telling others to shut up is not an opinion. All I ask of you is to defend your opinions constructively, instead of telling others to stop defending theirs.
- The ingame tutorial, in my opinion, isn't bare-bone, nor outdated, nor lazily written. It sure could be better, like anything could be better, but having a better tutorial will in my opinion not help anyone further because people who don't want tutorials just don't want them, no matter how good or bad they are.
- I don't see a lot of people telling me or anyone how wrong it is. In fact I haven't heard ANYONE, be it on forums, chat groups or ingame, complain about the ingame tutorial. You are the one basing yourself on a few steam comments to make your point and think you're right.
- I think people who are actually playing the game are a MUCH better source of feedback than the ones who stopped playing it after 30 minutes and declared it boring.
- I wonder why you persist in this attitude "This is bad, this is so wrong, they're all wrong, I'm so right, and ESO and the real world are both going to disintegrate if I can't make my point".
1. I did not tell anyone to shut up. I told someone to stop using 1 excuse over and over again, after being proven wrong, not by only me, but by others also.
2. While I do respect your opinion, I've seen tons of people being turned off in just a few hours for just how lack luster those few hours are. Luckily, after I explained ESO in depth for those players, they actually started to like the game a lot. So no, I don't think that they don't want to learn, but they simply believed that there's nothing to be learnt to begin with, since the game show no sign of advance or in depth mechanic.
3. Over 5000 people on Steam, plus 100+ guild members I've interact isn't a small number to me. I do research.
4. Again, the article say "first impression", I do not criticize ESO as a whole. If I hate the game after 3000+ hours played, I won't even bother taking my time here, trying to give out the perspective of new players for the game to improve upon.
5. If I do pose my attitude like that, then I'm sorry, for it's not my intention. I simply look at the tutorial, which is made for new players, then ask those new players about how they feel about it. And when most of them say that they hate it, I concluded that there's something wrong about it. Veteran players can say that "it's totally fine by me", but the fact is, veteran players are not the target audience for the tutorial, but the new players.
Did you bother to show them the in game manual? No? Then that is your fault, not the games.
Did I bother to show them the in game manual? Yes! And the game manual are filled with things everyone has already known, nothing new to be seen, nothing interesting to be learnt. People don't review the in game manual without reading them first. So whose fault is it now?0
