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ESO has a terrible first impression to new comer
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Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
global cooldowns are essential to animation cancelling, what the hell do you even think it means?
It's like you can't read, they forced light attack animations quite awhile ago. I literally showed you a video on how it used to be before it was forced.
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqyc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Hold up, when did I told you about the casting abilities on top of each other? Also, light attack in between is a form of animation canceling. You can call it weaving or micro, but at its core, it's animation canceling.
Also, why are we arguing about this? This is way off topic.
It's no where near how it used to be in terms of animation cancelling. It's animation is now forced but it shares a different cooldown than abilities do.
You need to do quite a bit of research and stop being so ignorant.
I don't care about the global cooldown, I've never said anything about global cooldown. I don't care if it's a lot less effective than it use to. What I care is that you still need some kind or form of animation canceling. I don't care if it's light attack in between skills, or skills + bar swap, or light attack + skills +bash, they are all animation canceling. It is still essential to ESO, you cannot be high tier players without some kind of animation canceling.
Yes you can be a high tier player, animation cancelling at its core is not enabling players to get 50-60k dps. Even if they put barswapping on the same cooldown as an ability, you would still have no issue doing high damage.
Do you even run with high tier players? Have you ever participated in strategising in ESO? This is ridiculous, it's almost like talking to a child who only says the word no.
New flash, this current update you have players doing heavy attacks with DoT rotations and still reaching 60k single target. That is no "animation cancelling" at all.#MOREORBS1 -
Alexandrious✭✭✭"please@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert Please do something about this. Teaching new players isn't a hard work. On the other hand, first impression is so important, and you're failing this aspect big time.
Are you serious?
"do something, people refuse their abilities"
When people expect Skyrim online and don't get it, it's their own problem.
When people get an ability bar with useful skills to be filled and rather do light attacks only, like in skyrim, it's also their problem.
What do you expect ZOS to do? To make a red blinking System message on the screen, after 10 consecutive light attacks, which says "Please use an ability"
If people just used some of their braincells, they would come to the conclusion themselves, that the left mouse button isn't the whole combat system.
The issue is either their ignorance, or that they expected something else
In my opinion Skyrim blows, so I'm glad ESO is very different to it
Actually. Someone should mod that, and use tbe most annoying sound in the world when the msg comes up. Cmon, you know the sound im talkin bout.
https://youtu.be/0cVlTeIATBs Edited by Alexandrious on September 18, 2017 6:03PM1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »If that was the goal, it was an idiotic goal. Those audiences were never compatable to begin with. And that audience has left by now.
- It was the goal, they said it.
- It wasn't idiotic (proof : game's doing well in spite of people like you predicting failure since day 1)
- Those audiences are not much compatible but they can "share" the same game in harmony, and there's some permeability between the two worlds.
- That audience has NOT left by now (proof : myself and COUNTLESS people I know in the game).
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on September 18, 2017 5:56PM2 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But to conclude, I want to re-state something I've said: Your argument is meaningless. If you can prove me wrong, then nothing will be done, everything will go back to the way it is, no improvement what so ever. There'll always be players trying out the game, then quit in just 5 hours for the terrible first impression, then bump out bad reviews after bad reviews (as the time I'm writing this, the reviews on Steam has reached mixed status, that's not a good marketing score. But if I can bump this message to ZOS, then we can hopefully get rid of those bad reviews. Sure, it'll not 100% working, but at least we have a better chance than just doing nothing. If you still don't understand how meaningless your action are, then I'll say good day sir.
I love how you pretend to be a "marketing" guy and base yourself on biased groups and reviews. And how you totally ignore the notion of "target segment" and pretend that ZOS should do anything in its power to gain that extra customer who's currently not buying.
You are totally overrating Steam reviews. Go to Skyrim reviews , they're mostly horrible and yet the game's both a masterpiece of design and a commercial smashhit.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on September 18, 2017 6:07PM0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »If that was the goal, it was an idiotic goal. Those audiences were never compatable to begin with. And that audience has left by now.
- It was the goal, they said it.
- It wasn't idiotic (proof : game's doing well in spite of people like you predicting failure since day 1)
- Those audiences are not much compatible but they can "share" the same game in harmony, and there's some permeability between the two worlds.
- That audience has NOT left by now (proof : myself and COUNTLESS people I know in the game).
- Still a stupid goal.
- It was idiotic. The first wave that came expecting skyrim online left shortly after. You know people who did. Kay. I know people who left. Stop presenting your feelings as fact.
- Those audiences are not compatable. Those who came from immersion have to deal with Igotsadigbick jumping up in down beside them. Those who came for group dynamic and play have to deal with a game eternally designed either weirdly or content not for them. (Do I even need to point to the ammount of "BUFF OVERWORLD CONTENT WE NEED MORE CONTENT" Threads on here?)
Funnily enough, when I looked at Steam Reviews on a lark, complaints from either side of the isle show that these groups are -not- compable. Over and over, the questers vs the endgame meta players was stated over and over. (When they were not talking about the games myriad of performance issues, the biggest turn off this game ever had.) Stop. White. Knighting. You only damage the game.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on September 18, 2017 6:07PM0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »But to conclude, I want to re-state something I've said: Your argument is meaningless. If you can prove me wrong, then nothing will be done, everything will go back to the way it is, no improvement what so ever. There'll always be players trying out the game, then quit in just 5 hours for the terrible first impression, then bump out bad reviews after bad reviews (as the time I'm writing this, the reviews on Steam has reached mixed status, that's not a good marketing score. But if I can bump this message to ZOS, then we can hopefully get rid of those bad reviews. Sure, it'll not 100% working, but at least we have a better chance than just doing nothing. If you still don't understand how meaningless your action are, then I'll say good day sir.
I love how you pretend to be a "marketing" guy and base yourself on biased groups and reviews. And how you totally ignore the notion of "target segment" and pretend that ZOS should do anything in its power to gain that extra customer who's currently not buying.
You are totally overrating Steam reviews. Go to Skyrim reviews , they're mostly horrible and yet the game's both a masterpiece of design and a commercial smashhit.
Believe me or not, I'm gonna tel you the truth, I'm a marketer, I've been working in media industry for 2 years now.
Also, Skyrim is blunted with paid mod boycott reviews, and still have better score than ESO. Now that's something wrong.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Funnily enough, when I looked at Steam Reviews on a lark, complaints from either side of the isle show that these groups are -not- compable. Over and over, the questers vs the endgame meta players was stated over and over. (When they were not talking about the games myriad of performance issues, the biggest turn off this game ever had.) Stop. White. Knighting. You only damage the game.
Stop.reading.Steam.reviews.and.stop.giving.them.echo. You only damage the game.
1 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭
global cooldowns are essential to animation cancelling, what the hell do you even think it means?
It's like you can't read, they forced light attack animations quite awhile ago. I literally showed you a video on how it used to be before it was forced.
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqychttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Hold up, when did I told you about the casting abilities on top of each other? Also, light attack in between is a form of animation canceling. You can call it weaving or micro, but at its core, it's animation canceling.
Also, why are we arguing about this? This is way off topic.
It's no where near how it used to be in terms of animation cancelling. It's animation is now forced but it shares a different cooldown than abilities do.
You need to do quite a bit of research and stop being so ignorant.
I don't care about the global cooldown, I've never said anything about global cooldown. I don't care if it's a lot less effective than it use to. What I care is that you still need some kind or form of animation canceling. I don't care if it's light attack in between skills, or skills + bar swap, or light attack + skills +bash, they are all animation canceling. It is still essential to ESO, you cannot be high tier players without some kind of animation canceling.
Yes you can be a high tier player, animation cancelling at its core is not enabling players to get 50-60k dps. Even if they put barswapping on the same cooldown as an ability, you would still have no issue doing high damage.
Do you even run with high tier players? Have you ever participated in strategising in ESO? This is ridiculous, it's almost like talking to a child who only says the word no.
New flash, this current update you have players doing heavy attacks with DoT rotations and still reaching 60k single target. That is no "animation cancelling" at all.
Well I've already done vAA, vSO and vHRC, but no where near completing vMOL, so you can say that I'm terrible at PvE.
Call me noobs, ignorant, whatever as far as I can see after 2 years of playing, no one I've seen in trials and PvP that are legit good don't utilize some kind of animation canceling.
To you global cooldown might be super important, but to me, it's just something that used to matter a lot, and not anymore.0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Funnily enough, when I looked at Steam Reviews on a lark, complaints from either side of the isle show that these groups are -not- compable. Over and over, the questers vs the endgame meta players was stated over and over. (When they were not talking about the games myriad of performance issues, the biggest turn off this game ever had.) Stop. White. Knighting. You only damage the game.
Stop.reading.Steam.reviews.and.stop.giving.them.echo. You only damage the game.
How the hell is reading criticizes and collecting feedback damage the game in any form and way? You don't avoid criticism, you analyse and learn from it. Avoiding criticism is the worst thing a company can do relate to customer relationship and marketing front.0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You folks are funny.
I have played a slew of MMO's since DAoC. They all received a 'poor' rating in regards to disclosing information. However, ESO fails in the information category at a whole different level.
I have rarely played another MMO where you couldn't generate a competitive build by looking at tooltips to get a general idea of what will happen when you activate an ability or the benefit of particular gear. Among those that have uninformative tooltips, ESO is the only one that doesn't include an inspect feature or provide related information through the API.
As a result, the golden rule in ESO from early on has been test everything. There are mathematicians who spend their time on PTS pre-patch just to derive new equations based on changes made by the patch and then publish them. The results are often complicated enough that someone makes a calculator, and even then many players need a lesson on how to determine the inputs to the calculator...
There are a greater number of people on PTS testing and deriving equations solely for themselves or a limited population, resulting in what many people subsequently call "exploiting" when they get pounded in PvP or grossly out DPS'd in PvE.. It's the "secret meta," known to only a few. The secret meta eventually always gets out, but aside from the proc set phase of this game, it has often taken months for the secret meta to become public knowledge.
So, yes, it's those lazy people that can't be bothered to comb the forums, gather data, apply multi-factor, hidden formulae for each possible build and then test their theory+math...
As to animation cancelling, even very informed players don't understand the underlying mechanics. Most of the PC players from release do, and the recent spate of hilarity is from console folks. Not because they aren't smart, some of them are, but because they lack data or a means to collect data at less than 100ms increments... Got global cooldown?
3 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
To you global cooldown might be super important, but to me, it's just something that used to matter a lot, and not anymore.
global cooldowns are essential to animation cancelling, what the hell do you even think it means?
It's like you can't read, they forced light attack animations quite awhile ago. I literally showed you a video on how it used to be before it was forced.
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqychttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Hold up, when did I told you about the casting abilities on top of each other? Also, light attack in between is a form of animation canceling. You can call it weaving or micro, but at its core, it's animation canceling.
Also, why are we arguing about this? This is way off topic.
It's no where near how it used to be in terms of animation cancelling. It's animation is now forced but it shares a different cooldown than abilities do.
You need to do quite a bit of research and stop being so ignorant.
I don't care about the global cooldown, I've never said anything about global cooldown. I don't care if it's a lot less effective than it use to. What I care is that you still need some kind or form of animation canceling. I don't care if it's light attack in between skills, or skills + bar swap, or light attack + skills +bash, they are all animation canceling. It is still essential to ESO, you cannot be high tier players without some kind of animation canceling.
Yes you can be a high tier player, animation cancelling at its core is not enabling players to get 50-60k dps. Even if they put barswapping on the same cooldown as an ability, you would still have no issue doing high damage.
Do you even run with high tier players? Have you ever participated in strategising in ESO? This is ridiculous, it's almost like talking to a child who only says the word no.
New flash, this current update you have players doing heavy attacks with DoT rotations and still reaching 60k single target. That is no "animation cancelling" at all.
lmao, what? how does it not matter?#MOREORBS0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭
To you global cooldown might be super important, but to me, it's just something that used to matter a lot, and not anymore.
global cooldowns are essential to animation cancelling, what the hell do you even think it means?
It's like you can't read, they forced light attack animations quite awhile ago. I literally showed you a video on how it used to be before it was forced.
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqychttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Hold up, when did I told you about the casting abilities on top of each other? Also, light attack in between is a form of animation canceling. You can call it weaving or micro, but at its core, it's animation canceling.
Also, why are we arguing about this? This is way off topic.
It's no where near how it used to be in terms of animation cancelling. It's animation is now forced but it shares a different cooldown than abilities do.
You need to do quite a bit of research and stop being so ignorant.
I don't care about the global cooldown, I've never said anything about global cooldown. I don't care if it's a lot less effective than it use to. What I care is that you still need some kind or form of animation canceling. I don't care if it's light attack in between skills, or skills + bar swap, or light attack + skills +bash, they are all animation canceling. It is still essential to ESO, you cannot be high tier players without some kind of animation canceling.
Yes you can be a high tier player, animation cancelling at its core is not enabling players to get 50-60k dps. Even if they put barswapping on the same cooldown as an ability, you would still have no issue doing high damage.
Do you even run with high tier players? Have you ever participated in strategising in ESO? This is ridiculous, it's almost like talking to a child who only says the word no.
New flash, this current update you have players doing heavy attacks with DoT rotations and still reaching 60k single target. That is no "animation cancelling" at all.
lmao, what? how does it not matter?
Because even with or without global cooldown, there'll always be some kind of animation canceling involved.
Also, you're off topic. This is a thread for new players and ESO first impression. If you want to talk in depth about these kind of thing, I suggest get to PTS or with someone who actually knows a tons about this, because I don't.0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I give up with you. Do some research before saying things like that.
To you global cooldown might be super important, but to me, it's just something that used to matter a lot, and not anymore.
global cooldowns are essential to animation cancelling, what the hell do you even think it means?
It's like you can't read, they forced light attack animations quite awhile ago. I literally showed you a video on how it used to be before it was forced.
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqychttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Hold up, when did I told you about the casting abilities on top of each other? Also, light attack in between is a form of animation canceling. You can call it weaving or micro, but at its core, it's animation canceling.
Also, why are we arguing about this? This is way off topic.
It's no where near how it used to be in terms of animation cancelling. It's animation is now forced but it shares a different cooldown than abilities do.
You need to do quite a bit of research and stop being so ignorant.
I don't care about the global cooldown, I've never said anything about global cooldown. I don't care if it's a lot less effective than it use to. What I care is that you still need some kind or form of animation canceling. I don't care if it's light attack in between skills, or skills + bar swap, or light attack + skills +bash, they are all animation canceling. It is still essential to ESO, you cannot be high tier players without some kind of animation canceling.
Yes you can be a high tier player, animation cancelling at its core is not enabling players to get 50-60k dps. Even if they put barswapping on the same cooldown as an ability, you would still have no issue doing high damage.
Do you even run with high tier players? Have you ever participated in strategising in ESO? This is ridiculous, it's almost like talking to a child who only says the word no.
New flash, this current update you have players doing heavy attacks with DoT rotations and still reaching 60k single target. That is no "animation cancelling" at all.
lmao, what? how does it not matter?
Because even with or without global cooldown, there'll always be some kind of animation canceling involved.#MOREORBS0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭
I give up with you. Do some research before saying things like that.
To you global cooldown might be super important, but to me, it's just something that used to matter a lot, and not anymore.
global cooldowns are essential to animation cancelling, what the hell do you even think it means?
It's like you can't read, they forced light attack animations quite awhile ago. I literally showed you a video on how it used to be before it was forced.
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqychttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Hold up, when did I told you about the casting abilities on top of each other? Also, light attack in between is a form of animation canceling. You can call it weaving or micro, but at its core, it's animation canceling.
Also, why are we arguing about this? This is way off topic.
It's no where near how it used to be in terms of animation cancelling. It's animation is now forced but it shares a different cooldown than abilities do.
You need to do quite a bit of research and stop being so ignorant.
I don't care about the global cooldown, I've never said anything about global cooldown. I don't care if it's a lot less effective than it use to. What I care is that you still need some kind or form of animation canceling. I don't care if it's light attack in between skills, or skills + bar swap, or light attack + skills +bash, they are all animation canceling. It is still essential to ESO, you cannot be high tier players without some kind of animation canceling.
Yes you can be a high tier player, animation cancelling at its core is not enabling players to get 50-60k dps. Even if they put barswapping on the same cooldown as an ability, you would still have no issue doing high damage.
Do you even run with high tier players? Have you ever participated in strategising in ESO? This is ridiculous, it's almost like talking to a child who only says the word no.
New flash, this current update you have players doing heavy attacks with DoT rotations and still reaching 60k single target. That is no "animation cancelling" at all.
lmao, what? how does it not matter?
Because even with or without global cooldown, there'll always be some kind of animation canceling involved.
Please give up with me, I'm a professional on this. You're on the wrong thread buddy.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How the hell is reading criticizes and collecting feedback damage the game in any form and way? You don't avoid criticism, you analyse and learn from it. Avoiding criticism is the worst thing a company can do relate to customer relationship and marketing front.
Because criticism is only valid if constructive and coming from reliable sources. Qualitatively and quantitatively.
If the girl next door tells you you're too fat, you'd better ignore it. If your doctor tells you you're too fat, you'd better consider a diet or something. Steam reviews and gamers' reviews in general are just as valid as the girl next door telling you you're too fat.
What matters to a REAL company with a REAL marketing approach is users' and consumers' reviews, feedback and opinions, taken not individually, but statistically, from a pool representative of the market segment they're targeting.
They don't care about some gamer/streamer/reviewer who's just trying to create some buzz for himself by bashing them.Also, you're off topic. This is a thread for new players and ESO first impression. If you want to talk in depth about these kind of thing, I suggest get to PTS or with someone who actually knows a tons about this, because I don't.
If I remember correctly, you were the one considering A/C as the key feature of ESO and the main aspect missing in tutorials. And now you say it's off topic and you know nothing about it anyway ? ...
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on September 18, 2017 6:57PM1 -
RANKK7✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »You folks are funny.
I have played a slew of MMO's since DAoC. They all received a 'poor' rating in regards to disclosing information. However, ESO fails in the information category at a whole different level.
I have rarely played another MMO where you couldn't generate a competitive build by looking at tooltips to get a general idea of what will happen when you activate an ability or the benefit of particular gear. Among those that have uninformative tooltips, ESO is the only one that doesn't include an inspect feature or provide related information through the API.
As a result, the golden rule in ESO from early on has been test everything. There are mathematicians who spend their time on PTS pre-patch just to derive new equations based on changes made by the patch and then publish them. The results are often complicated enough that someone makes a calculator, and even then many players need a lesson on how to determine the inputs to the calculator...
There are a greater number of people on PTS testing and deriving equations solely for themselves or a limited population, resulting in what many people subsequently call "exploiting" when they get pounded in PvP or grossly out DPS'd in PvE.. It's the "secret meta," known to only a few. The secret meta eventually always gets out, but aside from the proc set phase of this game, it has often taken months for the secret meta to become public knowledge.
So, yes, it's those lazy people that can't be bothered to comb the forums, gather data, apply multi-factor, hidden formulae for each possible build and then test their theory+math...
Awesome post.
lll
"I really don't know who the **** came off with this change. Definitely somebody who does not play the game, that's for sure".
lll1 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »How the hell is reading criticizes and collecting feedback damage the game in any form and way? You don't avoid criticism, you analyse and learn from it. Avoiding criticism is the worst thing a company can do relate to customer relationship and marketing front.
Because criticism is only valid if constructive and coming from reliable sources. Qualitatively and quantitatively.
If the girl next door tells you you're too fat, you'd better ignore it. If your doctor tells you you're too fat, you'd better consider a diet or something. Steam reviews and gamers' reviews in general are just as valid as the girl next door telling you you're too fat.
What matters to a REAL company with a REAL marketing approach is users' and consumers' reviews, feedback and opinions, taken not individually, but statistically, from a pool representative of the market segment they're targeting.
They don't care about some gamer/streamer/reviewer who's just trying to create some buzz for himself by bashing them.Also, you're off topic. This is a thread for new players and ESO first impression. If you want to talk in depth about these kind of thing, I suggest get to PTS or with someone who actually knows a tons about this, because I don't.
If I remember correctly, you were the one considering A/C as the key feature of ESO and the main aspect missing in tutorials. And now you say it's off topic and you know nothing about it anyway ? ...
This is what I was talking about. Twisting other topic into this thread. I said that "I'm no professional in animation canceling mechanic or DPS rotation", I did not ever said that I know nothing about A/C. Of course I know what the hell A/C is, and I stand the ground saying that it's a core gameplay mechanic that should be introduce to all new players. Don't twist my words for your liking.0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »How the hell is reading criticizes and collecting feedback damage the game in any form and way? You don't avoid criticism, you analyse and learn from it. Avoiding criticism is the worst thing a company can do relate to customer relationship and marketing front.
Because criticism is only valid if constructive and coming from reliable sources. If the girl next door tells you you're too fat, you'd better ignore it. If your doctor tells you you're too fat, you'd better consider a diet or something.
Steam reviews and gamers' reviews in general are just as valid as the girl next door telling you you're too fat.
What matters to a REAL company with a REAL marketing approach is users' and consumers' reviews, feedback and opinions, taken not individually, but statistically, from a pool representative of the market segment they're targeting.
They don't care about some gamer/streamer/reviewer who's just trying to create some buzz for himself by bashing them.
Actually if the girl next door tell me that i'm fat, i'm gonna look at the mirror first, then ask other neighbours if it's true or not.
Remember, games are made for players, players are the customer, and for business, customer's reviews are priceless. This is not my words, it's economy 101.
Let's take a recent example with Mass Effect Andromeda and its infamous facial animation. A lot of fans said that the animation isn't actually that bad and is totally playable, that it doesn't effect the gameplay at all. You can say that it's true, since it falls under the personal references section. But when tons of players boycott that 1 glaring mistake, the game crumble. EA has already pulled the plug for MEA, canceled the schedule for the next installment, and MEA is now the No man's sky of 2017. All it took was a bunch of bad reviews and boycotting to bring it down.2 -
Motherball✭✭✭✭One of the strengths of this game, in my opinion, is the ability to ignore the meta and all the jargon and stat weights, minimum dps, etc. and be able to play nearly any combo of class, skills, and weapons, and still do ok in the open world.
Those that desire more intimate knowledge of the game are not likely adverse to learning through google.Edited by Motherball on September 18, 2017 10:10PM3 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭Not everybody has to like this game. If ESO is not your type of game there is no amount of guidance that will change it. And not everybody likes MMOs to begin with.
Couldn't agree more. And to be honest, this game really does have something for many. Those looking for the Elderscrolls experience will find it. The open world quests and main story quest for the base game and even the DLCs are easily doable by many types of gamers.
I've got a friend who enjoys the game. They are never going to be able to do much more than light attack and use a skill once in a while. When they played EQ and WoW, they used the keyboard to turn and mouse to click abilities. Not sure how they handle this game, but they seem to enjoy it.
People like that won't be doing veterans, trials, or even any sort of PVP. But that's fine, there's a TON of content they can do.
The issue is when they step into content that is over their head and complain. What they should do is either accept that content isn't designed for their skillset (the player one, not the ingame character one). Or they need to step up their game and adapt.FloppyTouch wrote: »Never played an MMORPG that explained anything at all I don't know where this is coming from. At the start they might show you what skill points are or ur first abilities but that about it.
At the most I've only ever seen MMOs teach you how to use their unique UI and that is it. The rest you have to research or parse out yourself. I mean it was decades before the formula for Mitigation AC was revealed by the Devs of Everquest:
That's only part of it. The rest is a 22-step algorithm. Until the dev posted it, there was no way to tell how much better 8782 AC was over 7892. Oh and it wasn't until the last few months that they finally split mitigation AC from avoidance. They used to show AC by the two values added together. Game was released 18 years ago. I still couldn't tell you how much of a benefit you'll see just by looking at the numbers. Only that higher is better.
Point is, like Floppy said. We need to figure this stuff out. Its in our hands. Its part of playing the game to figure this stuff out. And like I replied to Everstorm above, you don't even need to know how much resists you need, magicka, or how to animation cancel. If that's not your game to research all of that, then there's plenty of content you can easily do.
Its up to the players to filter what other types of players they play with. If a keyboard turning light attacker isn't what you want in your group for a trial, don't invite them. If you don't want your character's DPS being judged by 'hard core elitists' don't join veteran dungeons where DPS checks are in play.
We don't need a dev to fix anything for us. We have options. Just got to use them.Could you imagine how long the beginning would be if they had to explain everything about gear dps healing tanking. I would quit so fast out of boredom.
Not to mention, who's going to design it? For example, animation canceling is a bug that became a feature. Because it wasn't intentional, its likely the devs don't even know how to do it properly. How can they design a tutorial on how to do it if they don't know how?
No, the best tutorial is player made. Youtube and Google are there for people who want to use tutorials. Players skipping those tutorials are going to skip the ingame ones as well. Dev made tutorials are a waste of time and resources. You'll achieve nothing by adding them.
Basically players who want to see tutorials are already seeing and benefiting from them. Those that are ignoring them would ignore them anyway, putting us back at square one.4 -
kyle.wilson✭✭✭✭✭
✭I could imagine, that with the large amount of content that is dumped on players immediately v. leveling into it. Creates an overwhelming experience with little guidance on how to progress in the game.
I preferred the structured leveled zones as a noob, but with all my chars at max cp the no-levels reopen content I had skipped.0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭kyle.wilson wrote: »I could imagine, that with the large amount of content that is dumped on players immediately v. leveling into it. Creates an overwhelming experience with little guidance on how to progress in the game.
I preferred the structured leveled zones as a noob, but with all my chars at max cp the no-levels reopen content I had skipped.
This is the reason I made this thread. It difficult to be both informative on the game, and also not bumping to much information for new players in just the matter of hours.0 -
MudcrabSammich✭✭✭@laced So basically if all MMORPG are boring at first, then no MMORPG should improve upon that disadvantage? Really? This is why American still can't have a woman president. "Since it has always been like that, why should we be better?" It's called "evolve", and that's how we should always thrive forward.
I would hope that in America, we elect people based upon their stance on issues, their ethics and their qualifications, among others, not upon their gender or race.
I wonder if the gamers in the OP actually do the quests.1 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Because those who dont want the game to change want to shut the thread down as fast as possible.
Um. The OP started the politics in post 11, by the way.2 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I dont know, really.
On the one hand, this game really needs a learning curve, dungeon/combat tutorials etc. In-game tutorials dont explain much, and since the majority of skill lines are hidden by default, new players dont even know what possibities they have (a horrible change in my opinion). Stuff like dps rotations should also be explained since its important in group pve. For many players ESO is their first mmo so they might be unfamiliar with tank/healer/dps concept.
On the other hand... I really disliked Skyrim combat, it just seemed shallow and diluted (without mods, that is). And for me, ESO combat seemed like a huge improvement. But it seems like some TES players prefer braindead easy light attack combat, and no amount of tutorials would change that. For each their own, of course, but ESO is not Skyrim and I dont think its a good idea to change it for Skyrim /tgm fans (they wont be happy anyway, since its not like Skyrim in more than one way).Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »And now you're preventing me from express my opinion. Tell me, how can you look at something so bare bone, outdated, lazily written and sometime misleading, to the point where there're a lot people telling you how wrong it it, but you still cover your eyes and ears, and whisper to yourself "this is fine, nothing is wrong, I'm not wrong". I'm not mad, nor trying to prove myself to be a better man, I'm just confused on how blindly defensive you are.- Telling others to shut up is not an opinion. All I ask of you is to defend your opinions constructively, instead of telling others to stop defending theirs.
- The ingame tutorial, in my opinion, isn't bare-bone, nor outdated, nor lazily written. It sure could be better, like anything could be better, but having a better tutorial will in my opinion not help anyone further because people who don't want tutorials just don't want them, no matter how good or bad they are.
- I don't see a lot of people telling me or anyone how wrong it is. In fact I haven't heard ANYONE, be it on forums, chat groups or ingame, complain about the ingame tutorial. You are the one basing yourself on a few steam comments to make your point and think you're right.
- I think people who are actually playing the game are a MUCH better source of feedback than the ones who stopped playing it after 30 minutes and declared it boring.
- I wonder why you persist in this attitude "This is bad, this is so wrong, they're all wrong, I'm so right, and ESO and the real world are both going to disintegrate if I can't make my point".
1. I did not tell anyone to shut up. I told someone to stop using 1 excuse over and over again, after being proven wrong, not by only me, but by others also.
2. While I do respect your opinion, I've seen tons of people being turned off in just a few hours for just how lack luster those few hours are. Luckily, after I explained ESO in depth for those players, they actually started to like the game a lot. So no, I don't think that they don't want to learn, but they simply believed that there's nothing to be learnt to begin with, since the game show no sign of advance or in depth mechanic.
3. Over 5000 people on Steam, plus 100+ guild members I've interact isn't a small number to me. I do research.
4. Again, the article say "first impression", I do not criticize ESO as a whole. If I hate the game after 3000+ hours played, I won't even bother taking my time here, trying to give out the perspective of new players for the game to improve upon.
5. If I do pose my attitude like that, then I'm sorry, for it's not my intention. I simply look at the tutorial, which is made for new players, then ask those new players about how they feel about it. And when most of them say that they hate it, I concluded that there's something wrong about it. Veteran players can say that "it's totally fine by me", but the fact is, veteran players are not the target audience for the tutorial, but the new players.
Did you bother to show them the in game manual? No? Then that is your fault, not the games.
Did I bother to show them the in game manual? Yes! And the game manual are filled with things everyone has already known, nothing new to be seen, nothing interesting to be learnt. People don't review the in game manual without reading them first. So whose fault is it now?
Funny, you said they didnt know about even ability slots at the beginning of this thread, now suddenly they thouroughly have reviewed the in game manual. Lol.1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I give up with you. Do some research before saying things like that.
To you global cooldown might be super important, but to me, it's just something that used to matter a lot, and not anymore.
global cooldowns are essential to animation cancelling, what the hell do you even think it means?
It's like you can't read, they forced light attack animations quite awhile ago. I literally showed you a video on how it used to be before it was forced.
Cant tell if you are just arrogant, but just a couple to show what I mean.
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.
I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.
Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)
I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.
Please do link those videos.There is no animation cancelling apart from bar swapping, but this is because a barswap does not share a cooldown as the abilities do so you can cast an ability and save time by bar swapping. Notice how that is the only form they are doing here, unless you decide to call light attack weaving as animation cancelling but I already addressed that. But its apparent from those videos how forced the light attack animations are now compared to what they used to be.
You still have not told me exactly what you mean and why you keep pushing the argument when it's already fact that you can't cast multiple abilities ontop of each other.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFbmFDtBqychttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98h90vaylD4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi42HCyB5c
what light attacks used to look like before they forced the animation (you cant even see the light attack, it just appears in the damage recap) this would be known as animation cancelling. Also note that this video is so long ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30st2C8Ulw
Hold up, when did I told you about the casting abilities on top of each other? Also, light attack in between is a form of animation canceling. You can call it weaving or micro, but at its core, it's animation canceling.
Also, why are we arguing about this? This is way off topic.
It's no where near how it used to be in terms of animation cancelling. It's animation is now forced but it shares a different cooldown than abilities do.
You need to do quite a bit of research and stop being so ignorant.
I don't care about the global cooldown, I've never said anything about global cooldown. I don't care if it's a lot less effective than it use to. What I care is that you still need some kind or form of animation canceling. I don't care if it's light attack in between skills, or skills + bar swap, or light attack + skills +bash, they are all animation canceling. It is still essential to ESO, you cannot be high tier players without some kind of animation canceling.
Yes you can be a high tier player, animation cancelling at its core is not enabling players to get 50-60k dps. Even if they put barswapping on the same cooldown as an ability, you would still have no issue doing high damage.
Do you even run with high tier players? Have you ever participated in strategising in ESO? This is ridiculous, it's almost like talking to a child who only says the word no.
New flash, this current update you have players doing heavy attacks with DoT rotations and still reaching 60k single target. That is no "animation cancelling" at all.
lmao, what? how does it not matter?
Because even with or without global cooldown, there'll always be some kind of animation canceling involved.
Please give up with me, I'm a professional on this. You're on the wrong thread buddy.
You hve been caught lying over and over and over again , so please, just stop, you are making yourself look ridiculous.0
