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ESO has a terrible first impression to new comer
Pr0Skygon
✭✭✭✭✭
For some reason today, I decided to read the review from steam and a lot of reviews from Youtube for ESO. People seems to be a lot more open to the game, but yet, every time a guy comment "I've tried the game with my friends for about a week, and it's boring as hell", this kind of comment get tons of upvote (or like). I decided to try and talk to these guys. They all seems to share something in common. First, ESO is their first MMORPG. Second, they have already played Skyrim. And finally, they have absolute no clue how to play the game. They play ESO just like how they play Skyrim, in first person mode, swinging light attack after light attack. They would never dodge or block, since nothing in early game can kill them. For them, dungeons are extremely boring, since they only play with 1 button, spamming it over and over again.
At first, I'm quite mad at them, since they can play online game, but have no idea how to use internet to search for a guide, or even find a PvP video on Youtube. But when I think hard about this, they're not exactly wrong, but miss guided. Even with the new tutorial from Morrowind, ZOS still do a very terrible job of explaining the basics of ESO. Animation canceling, how gearing works, how to actually do dps in dungeons, how to actually tank and bring a god damn taunt (seriously, I've met so many tank without taunt with Group finder).
@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert Please do something about this. Teaching new players isn't a hard work. On the other hand, first impression is so important, and you're failing this aspect big time.
At first, I'm quite mad at them, since they can play online game, but have no idea how to use internet to search for a guide, or even find a PvP video on Youtube. But when I think hard about this, they're not exactly wrong, but miss guided. Even with the new tutorial from Morrowind, ZOS still do a very terrible job of explaining the basics of ESO. Animation canceling, how gearing works, how to actually do dps in dungeons, how to actually tank and bring a god damn taunt (seriously, I've met so many tank without taunt with Group finder).
@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert Please do something about this. Teaching new players isn't a hard work. On the other hand, first impression is so important, and you're failing this aspect big time.
65
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Everstorm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not everybody has to like this game. If ESO is not your type of game there is no amount of guidance that will change it. And not everybody likes MMOs to begin with.
The game shows you where the skills are and how to use them. If you still resort to spamming light attacks then you're simply not trying.32 -
Eatmyface✭✭✭✭I think a lot of the people who all enjoy eso are also he kind of people who do their research before making any move, who know the are backwards before they start playing. The above category have no interest in this, nor in spending time researching crafting, upgrading skills etc.
Agree with you to an extent, but I'd say they were doomed from the start!7 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you think ESO has it bad, you should see SWTOR. Funnily enough, even with the bad reviews, SWTOR is arguably at its peak right now. Same can be said about ESO. Each game has its haters, you should never listen to these reviews ever.3 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For some reason today, I decided to read the review from steam and a lot of reviews from Youtube for ESO. People seems to be a lot more open to the game, but yet, every time a guy comment "I've tried the game with my friends for about a week, and it's boring as hell", this kind of comment get tons of upvote (or like). I decided to try and talk to these guys. They all seems to share something in common. First, ESO is their first MMORPG. Second, they have already played Skyrim. And finally, they have absolute no clue how to play the game. They play ESO just like how they play Skyrim, in first person mode, swinging light attack after light attack. They would never dodge or block, since nothing in early game can kill them. For them, dungeons are extremely boring, since they only play with 1 button, spamming it over and over again.
At first, I'm quite mad at them, since they can play online game, but have no idea how to use internet to search for a guide, or even find a PvP video on Youtube. But when I think hard about this, they're not exactly wrong, but miss guided. Even with the new tutorial from Morrowind, ZOS still do a very terrible job of explaining the basics of ESO. Animation canceling, how gearing works, how to actually do dps in dungeons, how to actually tank and bring a god damn taunt (seriously, I've met so many tank without taunt with Group finder).
@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert Please do something about this. Teaching new players isn't a hard work. On the other hand, first impression is so important, and you're failing this aspect big time.
Honestly I have never played an mmo that explained the mechanics / pvp / gearing from the get go. SWTOR was my first mmo, and I came from console. I had no idea what I was doing. After about 2 days I started to understand it a lot more, because I used the in game manual. ( codex ) This game also has an in game manual. The problem is not the game, but the problem is the new kind of gamer now a days. They do not want, or do not even try to learn games, they expect to be spoon fed everything and anything right from the get go. You can open up your in game menu, where your inventory is for example, scroll to the giant question mark and there you have a HUGE detailed instruction section. The only thing I think they could do is to have that be explained in the beginning. Everything is in there, from gear, to pvp. Animation cancelling also could be in there imo, but other than that, it really is the new generation of gamers problem. Imo.
Also, I cant think of a single mmo where the beginning wasn't boring as hell to me....conan, wow, swtor, eve, all super boring at first.
The biggest example of this spoon fed EZ mode gamer mentality is when you get kids to play old arcade games like mario, or castlevania, or sonic and they complain that the game is impossible and dont make it passed lvl 1. Gamer intelligence and adaptability has also gone down the drain.Edited by Jade1986 on September 17, 2017 10:00AM15 -
Urza1234✭✭✭✭Not everybody has to like this game. If ESO is not your type of game there is no amount of guidance that will change it. And not everybody likes MMOs to begin with.
The game shows you where the skills are and how to use them. If you still resort to spamming light attacks then you're simply not trying.
Thats a *** *** approach.
Are you seriously arguing that customer retention is entirely the responsibility of the customer? Please do the world around you a favor and never go into business.
Edited by Urza1234 on September 17, 2017 9:54AM13 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭Not everybody has to like this game. If ESO is not your type of game there is no amount of guidance that will change it. And not everybody likes MMOs to begin with.
The game shows you where the skills are and how to use them. If you still resort to spamming light attacks then you're simply not trying.
I understand there're people who dislike the game for what it is, but dislike the game for what it isn't, now that's a different story.4 -
FoolishHuman✭✭✭✭✭These people expect a classic elderscrolls game, but with coop. They won't like the MMO genre any more just because you explain it to them.9 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭If you think ESO has it bad, you should see SWTOR. Funnily enough, even with the bad reviews, SWTOR is arguably at its peak right now. Same can be said about ESO. Each game has its haters, you should never listen to these reviews ever.
SWTOR might be worst, but that's no excuse for why ESO is in serious lack of info for new comer. If the hater hate the game for what it truly is, then it's fair. But if those haters hate the game for what it isn't, then it's a damn shame. Those haters might actually do a lot more harm than you can ever thought. For example, if you look at Angry Joe review for ESO, you'll see how he despite the game, and how millions of people are blindly agreeing with him. That's not a pretty first impression.1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FoolishHuman wrote: »These people expect a classic elderscrolls game, but with coop. They won't like the MMO genre any more just because you explain it to them.
That is the biggest problem with the people giving bad reviews. The expected skyrim online. People that expected that, ever since this games beta, were disappointed and will stay disappointed.9 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭@laced So basically if all MMORPG are boring at first, then no MMORPG should improve upon that disadvantage? Really? This is why American still can't have a woman president. "Since it has always been like that, why should we be better?" It's called "evolve", and that's how we should always thrive forward.4
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Everstorm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not everybody has to like this game. If ESO is not your type of game there is no amount of guidance that will change it. And not everybody likes MMOs to begin with.
The game shows you where the skills are and how to use them. If you still resort to spamming light attacks then you're simply not trying.
Thats a *** *** approach.
Are you seriously arguing that customer retention is entirely the responsibility of the customer? Please do the world around you a favor and never go into business.
No, I'm saying that people have different tastes. I will never go to a Bieber concert even if all the millions of fans came to my door to personally explain his greatness. Nor do I expect any of them to come with me to a Slayer concert.
If people come to ESO expecting Skyrim 2.0 they are going to be disappointed. Some may give it a serious try and find out they like it, and some won't.
Edit: when I started playing Everquest in the summer of 2000 I had absolutely no clue what I was doing. But the concept of a consistent world shared with thousands of other people fascinated me so I put in the effort and ended up playing it for a decade.
Spoonfeeding ppl that are simply too lazy to pick up the spoon leads nowhere.Edited by Everstorm on September 17, 2017 10:06AM15 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭FoolishHuman wrote: »These people expect a classic elderscrolls game, but with coop. They won't like the MMO genre any more just because you explain it to them.
That is the biggest problem with the people giving bad reviews. The expected skyrim online. People that expected that, ever since this games beta, were disappointed and will stay disappointed.
Well those guys are just simply went to the butcher, and expect to buy some fish. Damme shame.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@laced So basically if all MMORPG are boring at first, then no MMORPG should improve upon that disadvantage? Really? This is why American still can't have a woman president. "Since it has always been like that, why should we be better?" It's called "evolve", and that's how we should always thrive forward.
Did you really compare the systematic oppression of women in the United states to a video game strategy which is tried and true? The beginnings of mmos are always boring because they are supposed to be super easy to let gamers get the hang of the game. If they make it super intricate and complex people would complain about that. And honestly, if you look at the beginning now vs the beginning when the game first came out, it is EONS more interesting. Hell, they even changed the dialogue options and some of the cinematics.6 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I'm saying that people have different tastes. I will never go to a Bieber concert even if all the millions of fans came to my door to personally explain his greatness. Nor do I expect any of them to come with me to a Slayer concert.
If people come to ESO expecting Skyrim 2.0 they are going to be disappointed. Some may give it a serious try and find out they like it, and some won't.
I understand the reasoning (and agree) but I disagree with the premise that people expecting coop-Skyrim will be disapointed. The whole overland game and questing part of it is designed to be Skyrim-with-friends, or even Skyrim 2 for solo.
Sure, those people (unless they try the group/guild/MMO aspect of ESO and like it) will not stay after discovering all zones and completing all quests, but they'll still stay for 6-8 months.
The issue with learning the combat system is quite real. Imho.
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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I mean seriously, look at this in game manual, you will be hard pressed to find a game manual this in depth in any other mmo.15 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭Not everybody has to like this game. If ESO is not your type of game there is no amount of guidance that will change it. And not everybody likes MMOs to begin with.
The game shows you where the skills are and how to use them. If you still resort to spamming light attacks then you're simply not trying.
Thats a *** *** approach.
Are you seriously arguing that customer retention is entirely the responsibility of the customer? Please do the world around you a favor and never go into business.
No, I'm saying that people have different tastes. I will never go to a Bieber concert even if all the millions of fans came to my door to personally explain his greatness. Nor do I expect any of them to come with me to a Slayer concert.
If people come to ESO expecting Skyrim 2.0 they are going to be disappointed. Some may give it a serious try and find out they like it, and some won't.
Let's imagine playing ESO for the first 5 hours like you're buying a house. You want a fairly big house, and that's exactly what this house is. And that's all you now about this house. What you don't know about this house, is that there's several secret basement in the ground, which can be use for pretty much everything. A party room, a library, a gaming base, heck even a 50 Shades of Grey style of playroom. But you will never know about this, because they house dealer never tells you about this. So let me ask you, who's responsible for this lack of information. Is it you, the buyer? Or the house dealer, aka the seller?0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe the problem is that game manual isn't as noticeable as it should be.
Maybe tutorials could have a "Push X to read more" and take you to that page, and have that page easier to access then a sub category of help.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."9 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Not everybody has to like this game. If ESO is not your type of game there is no amount of guidance that will change it. And not everybody likes MMOs to begin with.
The game shows you where the skills are and how to use them. If you still resort to spamming light attacks then you're simply not trying.
Thats a *** *** approach.
Are you seriously arguing that customer retention is entirely the responsibility of the customer? Please do the world around you a favor and never go into business.
No, I'm saying that people have different tastes. I will never go to a Bieber concert even if all the millions of fans came to my door to personally explain his greatness. Nor do I expect any of them to come with me to a Slayer concert.
If people come to ESO expecting Skyrim 2.0 they are going to be disappointed. Some may give it a serious try and find out they like it, and some won't.
Let's imagine playing ESO for the first 5 hours like you're buying a house. You want a fairly big house, and that's exactly what this house is. And that's all you now about this house. What you don't know about this house, is that there's several secret basement in the ground, which can be use for pretty much everything. A party room, a library, a gaming base, heck even a 50 Shades of Grey style of playroom. But you will never know about this, because they house dealer never tells you about this. So let me ask you, who's responsible for this lack of information. Is it you, the buyer? Or the house dealer, aka the seller?
Look at my above post. The information is there, if he didnt spend 2 minutes to find it, that is on him / her4 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Maybe the problem is that game manual isn't as noticeable as it should be.
Maybe tutorials could have a "Push X to read more" and take you to that page, and have that page easier to access then a sub category of help.
I believe it does say something along those lines, it says click to open in game help menu or something like that.2 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you think ESO has it bad, you should see SWTOR. Funnily enough, even with the bad reviews, SWTOR is arguably at its peak right now.
I don't see how you can conclude that going from over 400 Servers at launch (200+ in both the US and Europe) to just 17 servers now, the majority of which are only Lightly Populated, and constant calls on the Forums for MORE Server Mergers, as being "arguably at its peak". There's no argument to be had - it ISN'T anywhere close to its peak.
SWTOR is in decline, another patch of no better quality than the last two and it will be in free fall.
The new lead Producer has failed to capitalise on the good-will he was given by the player-base for replacing the bumbling idiot Ben Irving, and rather that reversing the worst of Irving's choices on game direction is intent on seeing them through to their logical conclusion - which almost everyone except Bioware understands is the closing of the servers.
If Keith had delivered even 30% of the vision he was promoting in his introductory post as SWTOR Lead Producer he may have managed to turn this ice-berg destined ship around, but in reality he hasn't even managed 10%.
All The BestEdited by Gandrhulf_Harbard on September 17, 2017 10:20AMThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.7 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭@laced So basically if all MMORPG are boring at first, then no MMORPG should improve upon that disadvantage? Really? This is why American still can't have a woman president. "Since it has always been like that, why should we be better?" It's called "evolve", and that's how we should always thrive forward.
Did you really compare the systematic oppression of women in the United states to a video game strategy which is tried and true? The beginnings of mmos are always boring because they are supposed to be super easy to let gamers get the hang of the game. If they make it super intricate and complex people would complain about that. And honestly, if you look at the beginning now vs the beginning when the game first came out, it is EONS more interesting. Hell, they even changed the dialogue options and some of the cinematics.
I stopped reading at the part "The beginning of MMOs are always boring". That's anti - consumer at best, and lazy at worst. If you're in this kind of industry, where imagination and innovative take the lead, this kind of thinking is unacceptable.
Wanna hear a story about innovation? Most RPG games in late 2000s tried to be as friendly and easy for new players as much as they can. Then came Dark Souls, and now we have 3 Dark Souls, 1 Bloodborne, a samurai Dark Souls called Nioh, a Sci fi called The Surge and an upcoming vampire Dark Souls called Code Veil. So please never say "The beginning of MMOs are always boring" ever again. It's not wrong, for now, but this is pure anti - innovative, and I despite it.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »If you think ESO has it bad, you should see SWTOR. Funnily enough, even with the bad reviews, SWTOR is arguably at its peak right now.
I don't see how you can conclude that going from over 400 Servers at launch (200+ in both the US and Europe) to just 17 servers now, the majority of which are only Lightly Populated, and constant calls on the Forums for MORE Server Mergers, as being "arguably at its peak". There's no argument to be had - it ISN'T anywhere close to its peak.
SWTOR is in decline, another patch of no better quality than the last two and it will be in free fall.
The new lead Producer has failed to capitalise on the good-will he was given by the player-base for replacing the bumbling idiot Ben Irving, and rather that reversing the worst of Irving's choices on game direction is intent on seeing them through to their logical conclusion - which almost everyone except Bioware understands is the closing of the servers.
If Keith had delivered even 30% of the vision he was promoting in his introductory post as SWTOR Lead Producer he may have managed to turn this ice-berg destined ship around, but in reality he hasn't even managed 10%.
All The Best
Which is exactly why I left as well.1 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
✭For any newbie in ESO I'd recommend joining a social guild and ask there. It's way more helpful than reading any raw tutorial included in the game. Currently I share my experience with few new comers and they are happy of the help. Especially that ESO wasn't published in many other than just basic world languages and there is a ton of text to read and understand. We the elders should help and explain the game mechanics and nuances to newcomers. They just need to join the proper guilds.
Also I disagree that ESO has a terrible first impression to new comer, when I was newcomer I had a wonderful first impression and loved the game since the first day. Everyone who played Skyrim should like ESO from the first try. All others must try if the game suits their needs and expectations. It's one of the greatest lore games on the market and I don't see many competitors. If someone doesn't like it, fine, let them move along.Edited by Gargath on September 17, 2017 10:30AMPC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."4 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you think ESO has it bad, you should see SWTOR. Funnily enough, even with the bad reviews, SWTOR is arguably at its peak right now. Same can be said about ESO. Each game has its haters, you should never listen to these reviews ever.
SWTOR might be worst, but that's no excuse for why ESO is in serious lack of info for new comer. If the hater hate the game for what it truly is, then it's fair. But if those haters hate the game for what it isn't, then it's a damn shame. Those haters might actually do a lot more harm than you can ever thought. For example, if you look at Angry Joe review for ESO, you'll see how he despite the game, and how millions of people are blindly agreeing with him. That's not a pretty first impression.
Actually no, SWTOR has had the biggest influx of newcomers since launch, and is arguably doing far better than ESO is at the moment simply because of the star wars films.
Anyways, back on topic - the reviews (of games, of course; physical items are another deal completely) are indeed a bad first impression, which is why I personally never listen to any of them. I try the game myself and then see if I like it or not.
Listening to reviews about games is a bad idea to begin with, especially since I am more of an end game player, since most bad reviews never actually reach end game. Funnily enough, I have never actually completed the all the quests in ESO, not even close. Despite the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild, which I absolutely loved, the most I ever completed was the first 3 AD zones. That's it. I have never quested in DC nor EP zones. Had I listened to every angry review out there I wouldn't have even tried the game.1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@laced So basically if all MMORPG are boring at first, then no MMORPG should improve upon that disadvantage? Really? This is why American still can't have a woman president. "Since it has always been like that, why should we be better?" It's called "evolve", and that's how we should always thrive forward.
Did you really compare the systematic oppression of women in the United states to a video game strategy which is tried and true? The beginnings of mmos are always boring because they are supposed to be super easy to let gamers get the hang of the game. If they make it super intricate and complex people would complain about that. And honestly, if you look at the beginning now vs the beginning when the game first came out, it is EONS more interesting. Hell, they even changed the dialogue options and some of the cinematics.
I stopped reading at the part "The beginning of MMOs are always boring". That's anti - consumer at best, and lazy at worst. If you're in this kind of industry, where imagination and innovative take the lead, this kind of thinking is unacceptable.
Wanna hear a story about innovation? Most RPG games in late 2000s tried to be as friendly and easy for new players as much as they can. Then came Dark Souls, and now we have 3 Dark Souls, 1 Bloodborne, a samurai Dark Souls called Nioh, a Sci fi called The Surge and an upcoming vampire Dark Souls called Code Veil. So please never say "The beginning of MMOs are always boring" ever again. It's not wrong, for now, but this is pure anti - innovative, and I despite it.
Dark souls is not an mmo, by any measure. It is a coop game. And people would flee in droves if any mmo was that difficult at first. There is a difference between difficult, and masochistic. That is what dark souls is for. Again, this is not an coop single player game, it is a mmorpg. Also, you clearly were not here at launch, when overland mobs were much much more difficult, and people were complain en masse about how difficult the beginning of the game was. So clearly, the majority did not want that. I wouldnt mind having more difficult beginnings, but this is a generational problem. And if you stop reading just because you dont agree with something - that - is the problem now adays with everything.Edited by Jade1986 on September 17, 2017 10:27AM7 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭
I mean seriously, look at this in game manual, you will be hard pressed to find a game manual this in depth in any other mmo.
Do those feeds tell you that you can animation cancel? Do those feeds tell you that you should not spam 1 skill only as a dps in dungeons? Do those feeds tell you what the hell does a tank do in dungeon?
What do those feeds tell you actually? How to chat, how to walk, how to sneak, how remap my controls, how to resolve a bug. Give me a break with those useless feeds. Having something done, but poorly, will resolve nothing.6 -
Slack✭✭✭✭✭"please@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert Please do something about this. Teaching new players isn't a hard work. On the other hand, first impression is so important, and you're failing this aspect big time.
Are you serious?
"do something, people refuse their abilities"
When people expect Skyrim online and don't get it, it's their own problem.
When people get an ability bar with useful skills to be filled and rather do light attacks only, like in skyrim, it's also their problem.
What do you expect ZOS to do? To make a red blinking System message on the screen, after 10 consecutive light attacks, which says "Please use an ability"
If people just used some of their braincells, they would come to the conclusion themselves, that the left mouse button isn't the whole combat system.
The issue is either their ignorance, or that they expected something else
In my opinion Skyrim blows, so I'm glad ESO is very different to itPC EU
Betty Breeze - Magwarden
Hunts S'hitblades - Stamplar
Aschavi - Magplar7 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭@laced So basically if all MMORPG are boring at first, then no MMORPG should improve upon that disadvantage? Really? This is why American still can't have a woman president. "Since it has always been like that, why should we be better?" It's called "evolve", and that's how we should always thrive forward.
Did you really compare the systematic oppression of women in the United states to a video game strategy which is tried and true? The beginnings of mmos are always boring because they are supposed to be super easy to let gamers get the hang of the game. If they make it super intricate and complex people would complain about that. And honestly, if you look at the beginning now vs the beginning when the game first came out, it is EONS more interesting. Hell, they even changed the dialogue options and some of the cinematics.
I stopped reading at the part "The beginning of MMOs are always boring". That's anti - consumer at best, and lazy at worst. If you're in this kind of industry, where imagination and innovative take the lead, this kind of thinking is unacceptable.
Wanna hear a story about innovation? Most RPG games in late 2000s tried to be as friendly and easy for new players as much as they can. Then came Dark Souls, and now we have 3 Dark Souls, 1 Bloodborne, a samurai Dark Souls called Nioh, a Sci fi called The Surge and an upcoming vampire Dark Souls called Code Veil. So please never say "The beginning of MMOs are always boring" ever again. It's not wrong, for now, but this is pure anti - innovative, and I despite it.
Dark souls is not an mmo, by any measure. It is a coop game. And people would flee in droves if any mmo was that difficult at first. There is a difference between difficult, and masochistic. That is what dark souls is for. Again, this is not an coop single player game, it is a mmorpg. Also, you clearly were not here at launch, when overland mobs were much much more difficult, and people were complain en masse about how difficult the beginning of the game was. So clearly, the majority did not want that. I wouldnt mind having more difficult beginnings, but this is a generational problem. And if you stop reading just because you dont agree with something - that - is the problem now adays with everything.
I think missing the point. I've never said that Dark Souls is an mmo, not by a long shot. What i'm saying is never ever put a whole genre of games into a stereotype. Such as "mmos will always be boring at first". Or "Shooter games are only for hardcore" (ahem, Overwatch). Or "Early access games are all cheap and lazily made" (ahem, PUBG). Or even "Stealth game will never catch on and become a thing" (said Konami executives, when Kojima told them about Metal Gear Solid).2 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@laced So basically if all MMORPG are boring at first, then no MMORPG should improve upon that disadvantage? Really? This is why American still can't have a woman president. "Since it has always been like that, why should we be better?" It's called "evolve", and that's how we should always thrive forward.
Did you really compare the systematic oppression of women in the United states to a video game strategy which is tried and true? The beginnings of mmos are always boring because they are supposed to be super easy to let gamers get the hang of the game. If they make it super intricate and complex people would complain about that. And honestly, if you look at the beginning now vs the beginning when the game first came out, it is EONS more interesting. Hell, they even changed the dialogue options and some of the cinematics.
I stopped reading at the part "The beginning of MMOs are always boring". That's anti - consumer at best, and lazy at worst. If you're in this kind of industry, where imagination and innovative take the lead, this kind of thinking is unacceptable.
Wanna hear a story about innovation? Most RPG games in late 2000s tried to be as friendly and easy for new players as much as they can. Then came Dark Souls, and now we have 3 Dark Souls, 1 Bloodborne, a samurai Dark Souls called Nioh, a Sci fi called The Surge and an upcoming vampire Dark Souls called Code Veil. So please never say "The beginning of MMOs are always boring" ever again. It's not wrong, for now, but this is pure anti - innovative, and I despite it.
Dark souls is not an mmo, by any measure. It is a coop game. And people would flee in droves if any mmo was that difficult at first. There is a difference between difficult, and masochistic. That is what dark souls is for. Again, this is not an coop single player game, it is a mmorpg. Also, you clearly were not here at launch, when overland mobs were much much more difficult, and people were complain en masse about how difficult the beginning of the game was. So clearly, the majority did not want that. I wouldnt mind having more difficult beginnings, but this is a generational problem. And if you stop reading just because you dont agree with something - that - is the problem now adays with everything.
I think missing the point. I've never said that Dark Souls is an mmo, not by a long shot. What i'm saying is never ever put a whole genre of games into a stereotype. Such as "mmos will always be boring at first". Or "Shooter games are only for hardcore" (ahem, Overwatch). Or "Early access games are all cheap and lazily made" (ahem, PUBG). Or even "Stealth game will never catch on and become a thing" (said Konami executives, when Kojima told them about Metal Gear Solid).
Again, the beginning of ESO, at launch, was more difficult, so much so people were dying constantly from overland mobs of 3-4. People complained, -alot-, and it was changed at some point.
As for your comment about a "lacking" explanation of combat, please try again.
Literally the only thing missing is an explanation of animation cancelling, which I have said we need for a long time, but a simple " how did x player kill me so fast " communication to other players would get an explanation quickly.2 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Never played an MMORPG that explained anything at all I don't know where this is coming from. At the start they might show you what skill points are or ur first abilities but that about it.
Could you imagine how long the beginning would be if they had to explain everything about gear dps healing tanking. I would quit so fast out of boredom.Edited by FloppyTouch on September 17, 2017 2:55PM9