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ESO has a terrible first impression to new comer
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RANKK7✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I mean seriously, look at this in game manual, you will be hard pressed to find a game manual this in depth in any other mmo.
Are you truly serious? That barely covers how to navigate the combat interface and nothing about how the game works, what's penetration? Mitigation? Where are all the kind of damage explained as direct damage (for which people still open threads around in order to know exactly what the hell is?). Buffs and debuffs? Acronyms a newcomer completely ignore like proc that is even used in tooltips?
Some decent tabs would be needed with a decent appendix!
Look a this page: BUFFS and DEBUFFS, that's a user work, that should be zos work to make a tab with buffs and debuffs available in game! That's something actually useful! Is that so difficult?
These are the things we are talking about.
We can't even get a decent character tab (utterly basic feature) with complete stats and that takes the cake about how ridiculously bad the tabs are made.
I mean seriously, look at this in game manual, you will be hard pressed to find a game manual this in depth in any other mmo.
Are you truly serious? That barely covers how to navigate the combat interface and nothing about how the game works, what's penetration? Mitigation? Where are all the kind of damage explained as direct damage (for which people still open threads around in order to know exactly what the hell is?). Buffs and debuffs? Acronyms a newcomer completely ignore like proc that is even used in tooltips?
Some decent tabs would be needed with a decent appendix!
Look a this page: BUFFS and DEBUFFS, that's a user work, that should be zos work to make a tab with buffs and debuffs available in game! That's something actually useful! Is that so difficult?
These are the things we are talking about.
We can't even get a decent character tab with complete stats and that takes the cake about how ridiculously bad the tabs are made.
If you would bother going through the thing yourself, you would see that staus effects and the like are covered in the Instruction manual. Also, when ESO was released they made it clear they were going for a minimalist UI, and that players would be allowed to alter their UI through add ons. So that should not be a surprise at all.
Status effect? And the like? Ok, we are done.
Also we are not talking about addons but useful info in game about how the game works.lll
"I really don't know who the **** came off with this change. Definitely somebody who does not play the game, that's for sure".
lll0 -
Nemeliom✭✭✭✭If this guys are lazy enough (or clueless enough) not to check any guide, then zos making a tutorial won't help either.
This game isn't just for everyone. If you are blind you won't be able to play it either. You can't build a game for 100% of population.Baradur Morker - Level 50 Bosmer Nightblade
Le-Duck - Level 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight
Boom-Stormer - Level 50 High Elf Sorcerer
Nemeliom the Great - Level 50 Redguard Warden
Crazy Little Maggie - Level 50 High Elf Templar5 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I mean seriously, look at this in game manual, you will be hard pressed to find a game manual this in depth in any other mmo.
Are you truly serious? That barely covers how to navigate the combat interface and nothing about how the game works, what's penetration? Mitigation? Where are all the kind of damage explained as direct damage (for which people still open threads around in order to know exactly what the hell is?). Buffs and debuffs? Acronyms a newcomer completely ignore like proc that is even used in tooltips?
Some decent tabs would be needed with a decent appendix!
Look a this page: BUFFS and DEBUFFS, that's a user work, that should be zos work to make a tab with buffs and debuffs available in game! That's something actually useful! Is that so difficult?
These are the things we are talking about.
We can't even get a decent character tab (utterly basic feature) with complete stats and that takes the cake about how ridiculously bad the tabs are made.
I mean seriously, look at this in game manual, you will be hard pressed to find a game manual this in depth in any other mmo.
Are you truly serious? That barely covers how to navigate the combat interface and nothing about how the game works, what's penetration? Mitigation? Where are all the kind of damage explained as direct damage (for which people still open threads around in order to know exactly what the hell is?). Buffs and debuffs? Acronyms a newcomer completely ignore like proc that is even used in tooltips?
Some decent tabs would be needed with a decent appendix!
Look a this page: BUFFS and DEBUFFS, that's a user work, that should be zos work to make a tab with buffs and debuffs available in game! That's something actually useful! Is that so difficult?
These are the things we are talking about.
We can't even get a decent character tab with complete stats and that takes the cake about how ridiculously bad the tabs are made.
If you would bother going through the thing yourself, you would see that staus effects and the like are covered in the Instruction manual. Also, when ESO was released they made it clear they were going for a minimalist UI, and that players would be allowed to alter their UI through add ons. So that should not be a surprise at all.
Status effect? And the like? Ok, we are done.
Also we are not talking about addons but useful info in game about how the game works.
We were done when you decided not to switch your brain to on.
1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If this guys are lazy enough (or clueless enough) not to check any guide, then zos making a tutorial won't help either.
This game isn't just for everyone. If you are blind you won't be able to play it either. You can't build a game for 100% of population.
Seriously agree 100%. ZoS said that any UI additions would be done by add ons because they wanted a minimalist approach, even then they back tracked and caved adding %'s and health bars. These people will not be pleased until everyone is forced to play with the fuster cluck ui that we have in WoW.1 -
OutLaw_Nynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And to think all the time moaning and groaning about ZOS doesn't cater to Skyrim players OP could have looked up information about all the things mentioned.1 -
Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was a long time WOW subscriber and player. I like questing, exploring and professions. Over the years though WOW became more linear, they cut back on professions being meaningful and focused on max level end game.
So when the free week came out for ESO I tried it and fell in love with it because of what others say is "boring".
So now I sub to ESO+.
Immersive quest chains, complex professions and so much to explore !!!
OP..from the comments you posted it sure sounds like those reviewers would be more happy in a MOBA with limited buttons and 15-20 minute game play sessions.5 -
kichwas✭✭✭✭MMOs aren't for everyone.
Just about UI change, forced grouping, etc that you might try to require to force people out of 'single player mode' will fail to work.
People who want to play a single player game and then come to an MMO will of course be disappointed.
But let's flip this. The last single player video game I bought was maybe around 2001... You're not even seeing my 'reviews' of them because I don't even bother to waste my money on something I won't like.
If you try to make an MMO cater to single player folks, group-play people will leave. I am not surprised that these single player people didn't like this game.
But I am surprised to see there's people dumb enough to pay money for something that is clearly not for them.
- Well not surprised... just... shaking my head.
- And I don't think it wise to to ruin the game for those of us who knew what we want when we parted with our money, for people too stupid to pay attention to how they spend that money...
"No gamer left behind" will just ending leaving all gamers behind...
I think the only 'failure' for ESO that could be changed to keep people from "playing it wrong" is that the mouse buttons are the two basic attacks, and moving the mouse by itself always moves the camera. These things can lead people to not seek out any more complex activity.
- If we instead moved light and heavy attack to skills/spells that you placed on an action bar that had 2 more entries than it has now... and had camera movement not linked to character movement unless you did it while clicking a mouse button (ie: use the movement system of 90% of other MMOs)... then people would start looking outside of the mouse for 'how to do things'.
- This would solve the issue for the players who WANT an MMO like experience but simply don't know what they're doing wrong. But I'm not sure that is as many players as the OP thinks it is. If the game were in Alpha I would be pushing for this change. But in it's current state I don't think it would actually improve the quality of player conduct by any noticeable amount.
- After all players who actually care about WTF they're doing figure out the weird motion / action system of ESO within the first 10-20 minutes if not sooner... But the fact that they used an FPS action/movement system in an MMO is... peculiar.
Edited by kichwas on September 17, 2017 6:25PMJah bless
PST timezone - mostly PvE player.
Super casual player
Seeking a casual 'lets do some dungeons and world stuff together' guild.0 -
BrightOblivion✭✭✭✭✭@laced So basically if all MMORPG are boring at first, then no MMORPG should improve upon that disadvantage? Really? This is why American still can't have a woman president. "Since it has always been like that, why should we be better?" It's called "evolve", and that's how we should always thrive forward.
Did you really compare the systematic oppression of women in the United states to a video game strategy which is tried and true? The beginnings of mmos are always boring because they are supposed to be super easy to let gamers get the hang of the game. If they make it super intricate and complex people would complain about that. And honestly, if you look at the beginning now vs the beginning when the game first came out, it is EONS more interesting. Hell, they even changed the dialogue options and some of the cinematics.
I stopped reading at the part "The beginning of MMOs are always boring". That's anti - consumer at best, and lazy at worst. If you're in this kind of industry, where imagination and innovative take the lead, this kind of thinking is unacceptable.
Wanna hear a story about innovation? Most RPG games in late 2000s tried to be as friendly and easy for new players as much as they can. Then came Dark Souls, and now we have 3 Dark Souls, 1 Bloodborne, a samurai Dark Souls called Nioh, a Sci fi called The Surge and an upcoming vampire Dark Souls called Code Veil. So please never say "The beginning of MMOs are always boring" ever again. It's not wrong, for now, but this is pure anti - innovative, and I despite it.
Dark souls is not an mmo, by any measure. It is a coop game. And people would flee in droves if any mmo was that difficult at first. There is a difference between difficult, and masochistic. That is what dark souls is for. Again, this is not an coop single player game, it is a mmorpg. Also, you clearly were not here at launch, when overland mobs were much much more difficult, and people were complain en masse about how difficult the beginning of the game was. So clearly, the majority did not want that. I wouldnt mind having more difficult beginnings, but this is a generational problem. And if you stop reading just because you dont agree with something - that - is the problem now adays with everything.
I think missing the point. I've never said that Dark Souls is an mmo, not by a long shot. What i'm saying is never ever put a whole genre of games into a stereotype. Such as "mmos will always be boring at first". Or "Shooter games are only for hardcore" (ahem, Overwatch). Or "Early access games are all cheap and lazily made" (ahem, PUBG). Or even "Stealth game will never catch on and become a thing" (said Konami executives, when Kojima told them about Metal Gear Solid).
Again, the beginning of ESO, at launch, was more difficult, so much so people were dying constantly from overland mobs of 3-4. People complained, -alot-, and it was changed at some point.
As for your comment about a "lacking" explanation of combat, please try again.
Literally the only thing missing is an explanation of animation cancelling, which I have said we need for a long time, but a simple " how did x player kill me so fast " communication to other players would get an explanation quickly.
No. It's not literally only missing an explanation of animation canceling. It's missing quite a bit. Tell me where it mentions anything about taunts. Tell me where it says which of your stats pets actually inherit. (I had a question about this earlier this week and got three different answers.)
In addition, some of the information they give in there can be outdated, misleading, or just plain wrong. I know for a fact this is one of @Gilliamtherogue 's pet peeves with this game, and one he mentions fairly often and in far more detail than I can. Why don't you try telling him how incredible the manual is, and see how he responds.
Also, "show me an MMO that does it better" isn't exactly a good argument. If it isn't cutting it and needs work, having more random, mostly unhelpful entries than SWTOR does won't make it better.1 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭I think the only thing ZOS have to provide in a tutorial is a simple guide to the basics so as to enable you to get started, and the present tutorial does a decent job in that respect.
The things the OP is complaining about would overload any tutorial and don't relate to the main leveling content. He's talking primarily about group content in dungeons etc, and that's something that groups themselves should assist newcomers with. Sadly, judging by the past threads on this forum, the game is full of elite MMO "veterans" whose only approach to someone struggling in a group is to kick him from the group.
ZOS can only do so much to prepare the new player for what's ahead of him, other players have to do their bit too whether it's in a group, in a guild, in chat, or here on the forums.
Where I do agree with the OP is that ESO is more prone to these problems than most other MMORPGs because by its every nature it attracts players new to MMOs and whose only previous experience is the single-player TES series or similar single -player CRPGs. That simply means there's a greater onus on all of us to help them rather than humiliate them.
I agree with that, but the in game help menu explains all of it pretty in depth.I knew there were tutorial hints but I didn't even know the help section was that in depth.
Learn something new everyday.
it used to be pretty bare bones to be fair. It is very well thought out now. I was a huge vocal critic of how it used to be.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Also, are you kidding me with those feeds? "Well we have dungeons, mini dungeons, ultimate skills and weapon/armor enchant, just like all others mmorpg". Really? That's it? Just those basics? Not animation canceling, your game's best selling point? Not even skills rotation and combos, those of which gives PvE and PvP the meter to measure how good you are? Or even how gears are categorized into different sets, and those sets will determine your playstyle?
Animation cancelling is ESO's best selling point ? Are you for real ? Animation canceling is an advanced technique, not even intended by design, that's only relevant for say 1% of the population (and 1% or even less of the content).
The "just like all other MMORPGs" part is also irrelevant. The issue here is the retention of players who are completely new to MMOs, new to group play, and/or expecting Skyrim-online.
Also, ESO is NOT designed as a competitive game. Therefore the tutorials are meant to explain the combat systems, different types of skills, zones, delves and enemies. They are not supposed to teach anyone how to "git gud" because you don't have to "be gud" to play ESO and complete the quests. It would scare the hell out of most new players.
Actually animation canceling is intended. Please do some research first.
Also, if you don't explain about your unique features, then why the hell should people buy ESO in the first place?
If you just want dungeons, World PvP and small scale PvP, just go play GW2. And it's free.
But if you want to play a game with high ceiling skills gameplay, vast about of gears and diversity@laced So basically if all MMORPG are boring at first, then no MMORPG should improve upon that disadvantage? Really? This is why American still can't have a woman president. "Since it has always been like that, why should we be better?" It's called "evolve", and that's how we should always thrive forward.
Did you really compare the systematic oppression of women in the United states to a video game strategy which is tried and true? The beginnings of mmos are always boring because they are supposed to be super easy to let gamers get the hang of the game. If they make it super intricate and complex people would complain about that. And honestly, if you look at the beginning now vs the beginning when the game first came out, it is EONS more interesting. Hell, they even changed the dialogue options and some of the cinematics.
I stopped reading at the part "The beginning of MMOs are always boring". That's anti - consumer at best, and lazy at worst. If you're in this kind of industry, where imagination and innovative take the lead, this kind of thinking is unacceptable.
Wanna hear a story about innovation? Most RPG games in late 2000s tried to be as friendly and easy for new players as much as they can. Then came Dark Souls, and now we have 3 Dark Souls, 1 Bloodborne, a samurai Dark Souls called Nioh, a Sci fi called The Surge and an upcoming vampire Dark Souls called Code Veil. So please never say "The beginning of MMOs are always boring" ever again. It's not wrong, for now, but this is pure anti - innovative, and I despite it.
Dark souls is not an mmo, by any measure. It is a coop game. And people would flee in droves if any mmo was that difficult at first. There is a difference between difficult, and masochistic. That is what dark souls is for. Again, this is not an coop single player game, it is a mmorpg. Also, you clearly were not here at launch, when overland mobs were much much more difficult, and people were complain en masse about how difficult the beginning of the game was. So clearly, the majority did not want that. I wouldnt mind having more difficult beginnings, but this is a generational problem. And if you stop reading just because you dont agree with something - that - is the problem now adays with everything.
I think missing the point. I've never said that Dark Souls is an mmo, not by a long shot. What i'm saying is never ever put a whole genre of games into a stereotype. Such as "mmos will always be boring at first". Or "Shooter games are only for hardcore" (ahem, Overwatch). Or "Early access games are all cheap and lazily made" (ahem, PUBG). Or even "Stealth game will never catch on and become a thing" (said Konami executives, when Kojima told them about Metal Gear Solid).
Again, the beginning of ESO, at launch, was more difficult, so much so people were dying constantly from overland mobs of 3-4. People complained, -alot-, and it was changed at some point.
As for your comment about a "lacking" explanation of combat, please try again.
Literally the only thing missing is an explanation of animation cancelling, which I have said we need for a long time, but a simple " how did x player kill me so fast " communication to other players would get an explanation quickly.
You're missing the point, again. I've never said anything about ESO's difficulty for new comers, I'm merely talking about ZOS and how they poorly explain their own game.
Also, are you kidding me with those feeds? "Well we have dungeons, mini dungeons, ultimate skills and weapon/armor enchant, just like all others mmorpg". Really? That's it? Just those basics? Not animation canceling, your game's best selling point? Not even skills rotation and combos, those of which gives PvE and PvP the meter to measure how good you are? Or even how gears are categorized into different sets, and those sets will determine your playstyle? Or even how to farm those sets, where to farm those sets. They don't even explain how Major and Minor buffs with the same name cannot be stack upon each other with the same type of Major or Minor. Stop trying to defend ZOS from their poor job, please. Accept the fact that new comers are in blind, and force ZOS to do a better job explaining their own game. You're not helping the game by defending it, but hurting it by being so full of forgiveness.
If you would bother to read it explains synergies, and everything about combat as well, it is pretty clear you do not like the game and no matter how much you are shown the instructions you will still complain. Gj.
What are you even talking about at this point? I have 8 toons with over 3000 hours of gaming. I'm making this thread so that ESO can have a much more friendly and overall better experience for new comers. What you're trying to do is just blindly defending ZOS for their mistake, and preventing the game from its full potential. Good job.
Your original complaint was how ZoS does a bad job at explaining basic combat mechanics, the availablity of pvp, etc. I showed you they didn't. Then you complain about non mmo players not knowing basic mmo mechanics, so I showed you how they explain that too, then you say those are basic mmo mechanics and everyone should know them. You also complained that the beginning was too boring, and i explained how it used to be more difficult / fun (imo) and everyone complained, the very player you are trying to defend atm, complained about the more engaging beginning. Get out of here, you are complaining for the sake of complaining now. ZoS has listened to the "new" player base for a while now. I have been saying since the get go we need a animation cancelling tutorial, but really, that is it. If I see something that really is a problem, like the ever lasting bugs for certain classes, or the bad framerate issue, or the horrible servers, I will be the first to criticize, but what you are describing is not a problem.
And your "explanation" shows nothing, since there're nothing valuable to be show to begin with. What you shown is the basic of the basics that everyone would know. I'll not get out of here just because of a blind man tell me to. Sure, the game has tons of problems, but obviously, I don't need to say anything about them anymore, since there're nothing left for me to say. What I want to say though, is what people are misunderstood.
People like yourself see the game as a veteran, someone who has already been in the game for so long, it has become your 2nd life. I'm making this thread base on new comers perspective, from people online, and friends offline that have tried and failed to understand the game. I'm making this thread in order for ZOS to see how they can improve upon themselves. If my point reach ZOS, new comers will have a much better experience than ever.
On the other hand, your argument will resolve into nothing. ZOS won't appreciate you for defending their mistake, new comers will still have a lackcluster opening hours. No body wins.
So seriously, what are you trying to archive? You can't show me anything new, or teach me anything, since I've already know and read everything ingame before making this thread. Just stop. Please. You're preventing the game from evolve to its full potential, and it hurts everyone. It hurts new comers, me, ZOS, and even yourself. So stop.
2nd life? Are you kidding me? I took a 1 year break and a half a year break from this game because I wasnt happy with it, then recently I came back and am much more pleased with it now adays.I am cp 283, which is far from being a huge veteran player. I have never done hardmode dungeons, or trials because I never got any characters geared enough to do so. My life revolves around my transition, exercise, outdoor sports, and music. This is a fun little hobby of mine. I have literally debunked all your complaints through screen shots, and then every time you find something else to call the whambulance about. Good grief.
It was a metaphor, meaning that you've already known in and out of the game. Not calling you a weeb or anything. If I did sound like that then I'm sorry, cause it wasn't my intention.
Also, if you want to talk about life and experience, then I'm CP600 with 8 toons, all 5 classes included. I play all roles, dps, tank and healer. A lot time spent on PvP. I've already done vAA, vHRC and vSO. In real life, I'm a marketing working in the media and entertainment industry. And for what I've said is what I've collected from various sources. I might have only been working with my current job for 2 years, but what I have learnt is that first impressions are escentual for success of your product. If your product get criticized for bad first impression, you'll make sure that the problems is present, and instead of blindly defend yourself, improving your product seems to be a much better decision.
The thing is though, the population is stable, if not increasing, so more people hav a favorable first impression than not. You cannot please everyone. ZoS makes the game harder at launch, people complained, ZoS made it easier, people complained. People complained that the grind was too much, ZoS got rid of VR levels, people complained they got rid of vr levels. People complained about not having an in game instruction manual, ZoS makes one, people complain it doesnt explain EVERYTHING to the T.
Your point stay the same, even though I've pointed out that it's just pure anti - consumer. Stop saying things like "The game is fine", "the population is fine". Stop. I don't care if it's fine or not, but there'll always be room for improvement. The lag, the balance, something something, there'll always be things to be improved, and that include the ingame tutorial. Stop blindly say that "it's fine". If it's truly is fine, then those negative review for bad impression would be a lie? And even if it's true, why don't you want a better tutorial? Isn't that the point of MMOs? To evolve? To improve itself through time? Stop being so stiff and set everything into stone. You're indirectly harming the game for giving out fake illusion of how "fine" the game is.1 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭If this guys are lazy enough (or clueless enough) not to check any guide, then zos making a tutorial won't help either.
This game isn't just for everyone. If you are blind you won't be able to play it either. You can't build a game for 100% of population.
Seriously agree 100%. ZoS said that any UI additions would be done by add ons because they wanted a minimalist approach, even then they back tracked and caved adding %'s and health bars. These people will not be pleased until everyone is forced to play with the fuster cluck ui that we have in WoW.
1. I don't make this thread for myself, since I gain nothing from it, I'm a vet player. I made this thread so that new comers can have a better play time, and make the first hours of the game feel more robust.
2. Sure, you can't make a game for 100% of people, but you can improve that % through time. When ESO first came out, it only hit about 55% of total players. But now, I'd gladly say that the number has grown to 80-90%. But those numbers don't magically go up, it comes from ZOS improving the game, from every aspect, including the tutorial.
3. What you're trying to say is actually boiled down to "don't improve the tutorial", which actually conflict with what I said earlier. You're not helping ESO, you're drowning it. Sure, ESO isn't for everyone, but ZOS can still make the player base grow, to help ESO reach out to new audience. But you want the opposite? Screw the new players, we're veteran players are fine? Come on.
4. No body talking anything about UI, especially how we should have a *** UI that show everything. Stop saying things off topic.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Your point stay the same, even though I've pointed out that it's just pure anti - consumer. Stop saying things like "The game is fine", "the population is fine". Stop. I don't care if it's fine or not, but there'll always be room for improvement. The lag, the balance, something something, there'll always be things to be improved, and that include the ingame tutorial. Stop blindly say that "it's fine". If it's truly is fine, then those negative review for bad impression would be a lie? And even if it's true, why don't you want a better tutorial? Isn't that the point of MMOs? To evolve? To improve itself through time? Stop being so stiff and set everything into stone. You're indirectly harming the game for giving out fake illusion of how "fine" the game is.
You should be the one who stops thinking that your own opinions are what matters "for the good of the game" and that anyone who thinks differently is wrong and harms the game.
The game is very healthy and thriving with new players all the time. Reviews are what they are, either people who dislike the game (can't please everyone, would they be happier with more/better tutorials ?), people who chose this game by mistake, thinking it's the type of game it's not meant to be, and people who are paid by the competition to write bad reviews (yes, that does exist).
The true point here is whether a changed/improved tutorial, even a *perfect* tutorial would help new players getting familiar with the game ? Nothing is less certain. Everyone hates tutorials, nobody does/reads tutorials, regardless of whether the tutorial is good or bad. And the few ones who actually enjoy studying and learning via tutorials will do it anyway over the internet and by naturally asking other players.
Another true point is what people mean by tutorials. For some people (incl. me) it means explaining the systems, skills and calculations. I'd welcome that. For other people, it means teaching how to play - and I'd NOT welcome that, because I 'f'ing intend to play how I want.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on September 17, 2017 7:06PM1 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭Juju_beans wrote: »I was a long time WOW subscriber and player. I like questing, exploring and professions. Over the years though WOW became more linear, they cut back on professions being meaningful and focused on max level end game.
So when the free week came out for ESO I tried it and fell in love with it because of what others say is "boring".
So now I sub to ESO+.
Immersive quest chains, complex professions and so much to explore !!!
OP..from the comments you posted it sure sounds like those reviewers would be more happy in a MOBA with limited buttons and 15-20 minute game play sessions.
You've at least played another MMOs, but there are tons of people start playing MMOs through ESO. You might feel fine at first, but that doesn't mean those reviews are wrong. If you're the devs and look at these reviews, then say "So you bought our game, but don't understand anything about the game, since we don't actually show you anything. LOL, screw you, better off use google for that", that would be the most irresponsible thing you can do, and that's exactly what your opinion will lead to.0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Your point stay the same, even though I've pointed out that it's just pure anti - consumer. Stop saying things like "The game is fine", "the population is fine". Stop. I don't care if it's fine or not, but there'll always be room for improvement. The lag, the balance, something something, there'll always be things to be improved, and that include the ingame tutorial. Stop blindly say that "it's fine". If it's truly is fine, then those negative review for bad impression would be a lie? And even if it's true, why don't you want a better tutorial? Isn't that the point of MMOs? To evolve? To improve itself through time? Stop being so stiff and set everything into stone. You're indirectly harming the game for giving out fake illusion of how "fine" the game is.
You should be the one who stops thinking that your own opinions are what matters "for the good of the game" and that anyone who thinks differently is wrong and harms the game.
The game is very healthy and thriving with new players all the time. Reviews are what they are, either people who dislike the game (can't please everyone, would they be happier with more/better tutorials ?), people who chose this game by mistake, thinking it's the type of game it's not meant to be, and people who are paid by the competition to write bad reviews (yes, that does exist).
The true point here is whether a changed/improved tutorial, even a *perfect* tutorial would help new players getting familiar with the game ? Nothing is less certain. Everyone hates tutorials, nobody does/reads tutorials, regardless of whether the tutorial is good or bad. And the few ones who actually enjoy studying and learning via tutorials will do it anyway over the internet and by naturally asking other players.
Another true point is what people mean by tutorials. For some people (incl. me) it means explaining the systems, skills and calculations. I'd welcome that. For other people, it means teaching how to play - and I'd NOT welcome that, because I 'f'ing intend to play how I want.
Didn't I say that before? I only want the devs to introduce the in depth mechanic of the game. For example just say that "There're animation canceling in ESO, you can do it by quickly tapping other button to chain together. If you need more info, ask around". That's it. Can ZOS at least do that?
Also, can't you just face the fact that ESO has a terrible tutorial? Don't you want better thing? Don't you want improvement? Why would you look at something so utterly broken and say that "this is fine".
The reviews are written by humans, by consumer, and if they have a point, then the least can do is listen to what they have to say, not blindly defend the game for no good reason.
Ans sure, there's no clear evident that a better tutorial will bring more players. But if you don't even try to improve it, you'll never know, you'll forever miss out a big part of audience. That's why I told you that you're just pure anti - consumer. You're not thinking for the long run. Just because these things don't effect you, doesn't mean that it's not valuable for others.
By the way, why don't you want improvement? I find it really weird for someone to go against improvement. "But improving the tutorial is meaningless and it won't thrive more players into the game". How would know, since you've never tried? At least I know that if we have better tutorial, those bad reviews will go away.1 -
Slack✭✭✭✭✭Got to admit tho, I'd be all for a forced, extended tutorial, for every single sorc with 630CP+ that hard casts frags in trials or vet dungeonsPC EU
Betty Breeze - Magwarden
Hunts S'hitblades - Stamplar
Aschavi - Magplar1 -
Teridaxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
No no that's not what I'm trying to say.
What i want from is giving an inception for player to actually know some hidden mechanic in game that actually exist, such as animation canceling and set bonus from gears. I do not wish a full on private tutorial or a bunch of texts telling new comers what to do. That would be boring.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.
If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html
The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.
Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.Edited by Nifty2g on September 17, 2017 8:21PM#MOREORBS2 -
Balgost✭✭✭I think the only thing ZOS have to provide in a tutorial is a simple guide to the basics so as to enable you to get started, and the present tutorial does a decent job in that respect.
The things the OP is complaining about would overload any tutorial and don't relate to the main leveling content. He's talking primarily about group content in dungeons etc, and that's something that groups themselves should assist newcomers with. Sadly, judging by the past threads on this forum, the game is full of elite MMO "veterans" whose only approach to someone struggling in a group is to kick him from the group.
ZOS can only do so much to prepare the new player for what's ahead of him, other players have to do their bit too whether it's in a group, in a guild, in chat, or here on the forums.
Where I do agree with the OP is that ESO is more prone to these problems than most other MMORPGs because by its every nature it attracts players new to MMOs and whose only previous experience is the single-player TES series or similar single -player CRPGs. That simply means there's a greater onus on all of us to help them rather than humiliate them.
I agree with that, but the in game help menu explains all of it pretty in depth.I knew there were tutorial hints but I didn't even know the help section was that in depth.
Learn something new everyday.
it used to be pretty bare bones to be fair. It is very well thought out now. I was a huge vocal critic of how it used to be.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Also, are you kidding me with those feeds? "Well we have dungeons, mini dungeons, ultimate skills and weapon/armor enchant, just like all others mmorpg". Really? That's it? Just those basics? Not animation canceling, your game's best selling point? Not even skills rotation and combos, those of which gives PvE and PvP the meter to measure how good you are? Or even how gears are categorized into different sets, and those sets will determine your playstyle?
Animation cancelling is ESO's best selling point ? Are you for real ? Animation canceling is an advanced technique, not even intended by design, that's only relevant for say 1% of the population (and 1% or even less of the content).
The "just like all other MMORPGs" part is also irrelevant. The issue here is the retention of players who are completely new to MMOs, new to group play, and/or expecting Skyrim-online.
Also, ESO is NOT designed as a competitive game. Therefore the tutorials are meant to explain the combat systems, different types of skills, zones, delves and enemies. They are not supposed to teach anyone how to "git gud" because you don't have to "be gud" to play ESO and complete the quests. It would scare the hell out of most new players.
Actually animation canceling is intended. Please do some research first.
Also, if you don't explain about your unique features, then why the hell should people buy ESO in the first place?
If you just want dungeons, World PvP and small scale PvP, just go play GW2. And it's free.
But if you want to play a game with high ceiling skills gameplay, vast about of gears and diversity@laced So basically if all MMORPG are boring at first, then no MMORPG should improve upon that disadvantage? Really? This is why American still can't have a woman president. "Since it has always been like that, why should we be better?" It's called "evolve", and that's how we should always thrive forward.
Did you really compare the systematic oppression of women in the United states to a video game strategy which is tried and true? The beginnings of mmos are always boring because they are supposed to be super easy to let gamers get the hang of the game. If they make it super intricate and complex people would complain about that. And honestly, if you look at the beginning now vs the beginning when the game first came out, it is EONS more interesting. Hell, they even changed the dialogue options and some of the cinematics.
I stopped reading at the part "The beginning of MMOs are always boring". That's anti - consumer at best, and lazy at worst. If you're in this kind of industry, where imagination and innovative take the lead, this kind of thinking is unacceptable.
Wanna hear a story about innovation? Most RPG games in late 2000s tried to be as friendly and easy for new players as much as they can. Then came Dark Souls, and now we have 3 Dark Souls, 1 Bloodborne, a samurai Dark Souls called Nioh, a Sci fi called The Surge and an upcoming vampire Dark Souls called Code Veil. So please never say "The beginning of MMOs are always boring" ever again. It's not wrong, for now, but this is pure anti - innovative, and I despite it.
Dark souls is not an mmo, by any measure. It is a coop game. And people would flee in droves if any mmo was that difficult at first. There is a difference between difficult, and masochistic. That is what dark souls is for. Again, this is not an coop single player game, it is a mmorpg. Also, you clearly were not here at launch, when overland mobs were much much more difficult, and people were complain en masse about how difficult the beginning of the game was. So clearly, the majority did not want that. I wouldnt mind having more difficult beginnings, but this is a generational problem. And if you stop reading just because you dont agree with something - that - is the problem now adays with everything.
I think missing the point. I've never said that Dark Souls is an mmo, not by a long shot. What i'm saying is never ever put a whole genre of games into a stereotype. Such as "mmos will always be boring at first". Or "Shooter games are only for hardcore" (ahem, Overwatch). Or "Early access games are all cheap and lazily made" (ahem, PUBG). Or even "Stealth game will never catch on and become a thing" (said Konami executives, when Kojima told them about Metal Gear Solid).
Again, the beginning of ESO, at launch, was more difficult, so much so people were dying constantly from overland mobs of 3-4. People complained, -alot-, and it was changed at some point.
As for your comment about a "lacking" explanation of combat, please try again.
Literally the only thing missing is an explanation of animation cancelling, which I have said we need for a long time, but a simple " how did x player kill me so fast " communication to other players would get an explanation quickly.
You're missing the point, again. I've never said anything about ESO's difficulty for new comers, I'm merely talking about ZOS and how they poorly explain their own game.
Also, are you kidding me with those feeds? "Well we have dungeons, mini dungeons, ultimate skills and weapon/armor enchant, just like all others mmorpg". Really? That's it? Just those basics? Not animation canceling, your game's best selling point? Not even skills rotation and combos, those of which gives PvE and PvP the meter to measure how good you are? Or even how gears are categorized into different sets, and those sets will determine your playstyle? Or even how to farm those sets, where to farm those sets. They don't even explain how Major and Minor buffs with the same name cannot be stack upon each other with the same type of Major or Minor. Stop trying to defend ZOS from their poor job, please. Accept the fact that new comers are in blind, and force ZOS to do a better job explaining their own game. You're not helping the game by defending it, but hurting it by being so full of forgiveness.
If you would bother to read it explains synergies, and everything about combat as well, it is pretty clear you do not like the game and no matter how much you are shown the instructions you will still complain. Gj.
What are you even talking about at this point? I have 8 toons with over 3000 hours of gaming. I'm making this thread so that ESO can have a much more friendly and overall better experience for new comers. What you're trying to do is just blindly defending ZOS for their mistake, and preventing the game from its full potential. Good job.
Your original complaint was how ZoS does a bad job at explaining basic combat mechanics, the availablity of pvp, etc. I showed you they didn't. Then you complain about non mmo players not knowing basic mmo mechanics, so I showed you how they explain that too, then you say those are basic mmo mechanics and everyone should know them. You also complained that the beginning was too boring, and i explained how it used to be more difficult / fun (imo) and everyone complained, the very player you are trying to defend atm, complained about the more engaging beginning. Get out of here, you are complaining for the sake of complaining now. ZoS has listened to the "new" player base for a while now. I have been saying since the get go we need a animation cancelling tutorial, but really, that is it. If I see something that really is a problem, like the ever lasting bugs for certain classes, or the bad framerate issue, or the horrible servers, I will be the first to criticize, but what you are describing is not a problem.
And your "explanation" shows nothing, since there're nothing valuable to be show to begin with. What you shown is the basic of the basics that everyone would know. I'll not get out of here just because of a blind man tell me to. Sure, the game has tons of problems, but obviously, I don't need to say anything about them anymore, since there're nothing left for me to say. What I want to say though, is what people are misunderstood.
People like yourself see the game as a veteran, someone who has already been in the game for so long, it has become your 2nd life. I'm making this thread base on new comers perspective, from people online, and friends offline that have tried and failed to understand the game. I'm making this thread in order for ZOS to see how they can improve upon themselves. If my point reach ZOS, new comers will have a much better experience than ever.
On the other hand, your argument will resolve into nothing. ZOS won't appreciate you for defending their mistake, new comers will still have a lackcluster opening hours. No body wins.
So seriously, what are you trying to archive? You can't show me anything new, or teach me anything, since I've already know and read everything ingame before making this thread. Just stop. Please. You're preventing the game from evolve to its full potential, and it hurts everyone. It hurts new comers, me, ZOS, and even yourself. So stop.
2nd life? Are you kidding me? I took a 1 year break and a half a year break from this game because I wasnt happy with it, then recently I came back and am much more pleased with it now adays.I am cp 283, which is far from being a huge veteran player. I have never done hardmode dungeons, or trials because I never got any characters geared enough to do so. My life revolves around my transition, exercise, outdoor sports, and music. This is a fun little hobby of mine. I have literally debunked all your complaints through screen shots, and then every time you find something else to call the whambulance about. Good grief.
It was a metaphor, meaning that you've already known in and out of the game. Not calling you a weeb or anything. If I did sound like that then I'm sorry, cause it wasn't my intention.
Also, if you want to talk about life and experience, then I'm CP600 with 8 toons, all 5 classes included. I play all roles, dps, tank and healer. A lot time spent on PvP. I've already done vAA, vHRC and vSO. In real life, I'm a marketing working in the media and entertainment industry. And for what I've said is what I've collected from various sources. I might have only been working with my current job for 2 years, but what I have learnt is that first impressions are escentual for success of your product. If your product get criticized for bad first impression, you'll make sure that the problems is present, and instead of blindly defend yourself, improving your product seems to be a much better decision.
The thing is though, the population is stable, if not increasing, so more people hav a favorable first impression than not. You cannot please everyone. ZoS makes the game harder at launch, people complained, ZoS made it easier, people complained. People complained that the grind was too much, ZoS got rid of VR levels, people complained they got rid of vr levels. People complained about not having an in game instruction manual, ZoS makes one, people complain it doesnt explain EVERYTHING to the T.
Your point stay the same, even though I've pointed out that it's just pure anti - consumer. Stop saying things like "The game is fine", "the population is fine". Stop. I don't care if it's fine or not, but there'll always be room for improvement. The lag, the balance, something something, there'll always be things to be improved, and that include the ingame tutorial. Stop blindly say that "it's fine". If it's truly is fine, then those negative review for bad impression would be a lie? And even if it's true, why don't you want a better tutorial? Isn't that the point of MMOs? To evolve? To improve itself through time? Stop being so stiff and set everything into stone. You're indirectly harming the game for giving out fake illusion of how "fine" the game is.
The game is fine...other than the FPS drop.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The game made such a bad first impression on me that I am still here 3 plus years later.
2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »And to think all the time moaning and groaning about ZOS doesn't cater to Skyrim players OP could have looked up information about all the things mentioned.
Stawman.
Thread's better off without them.
WoW could teach class rotations and mechanics through gameplay alone. So could secret world. So could any game worth it's salt. ESO shouldn't get a pass because you like it.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Your point stay the same, even though I've pointed out that it's just pure anti - consumer. Stop saying things like "The game is fine", "the population is fine". Stop. I don't care if it's fine or not, but there'll always be room for improvement. The lag, the balance, something something, there'll always be things to be improved, and that include the ingame tutorial. Stop blindly say that "it's fine". If it's truly is fine, then those negative review for bad impression would be a lie? And even if it's true, why don't you want a better tutorial? Isn't that the point of MMOs? To evolve? To improve itself through time? Stop being so stiff and set everything into stone. You're indirectly harming the game for giving out fake illusion of how "fine" the game is.
You should be the one who stops thinking that your own opinions are what matters "for the good of the game" and that anyone who thinks differently is wrong and harms the game.
The game is very healthy and thriving with new players all the time. Reviews are what they are, either people who dislike the game (can't please everyone, would they be happier with more/better tutorials ?), people who chose this game by mistake, thinking it's the type of game it's not meant to be, and people who are paid by the competition to write bad reviews (yes, that does exist).
The true point here is whether a changed/improved tutorial, even a *perfect* tutorial would help new players getting familiar with the game ? Nothing is less certain. Everyone hates tutorials, nobody does/reads tutorials, regardless of whether the tutorial is good or bad. And the few ones who actually enjoy studying and learning via tutorials will do it anyway over the internet and by naturally asking other players.
Another true point is what people mean by tutorials. For some people (incl. me) it means explaining the systems, skills and calculations. I'd welcome that. For other people, it means teaching how to play - and I'd NOT welcome that, because I 'f'ing intend to play how I want.
Didn't I say that before? I only want the devs to introduce the in depth mechanic of the game. For example just say that "There're animation canceling in ESO, you can do it by quickly tapping other button to chain together. If you need more info, ask around". That's it. Can ZOS at least do that?
Also, can't you just face the fact that ESO has a terrible tutorial? Don't you want better thing? Don't you want improvement? Why would you look at something so utterly broken and say that "this is fine".
The reviews are written by humans, by consumer, and if they have a point, then the least can do is listen to what they have to say, not blindly defend the game for no good reason.
Ans sure, there's no clear evident that a better tutorial will bring more players. But if you don't even try to improve it, you'll never know, you'll forever miss out a big part of audience. That's why I told you that you're just pure anti - consumer. You're not thinking for the long run. Just because these things don't effect you, doesn't mean that it's not valuable for others.
By the way, why don't you want improvement? I find it really weird for someone to go against improvement. "But improving the tutorial is meaningless and it won't thrive more players into the game". How would know, since you've never tried? At least I know that if we have better tutorial, those bad reviews will go away.
See, people like this never do.
Improvement would imply there is something wrong.
Since many devote themselves to the game, something wrong implies they're -lifestyle- is wrong, or at the very least, they're choice in MMO, or purchase, is wrong. It is the poison that all this corporate enthrallment stems from. Admitting the game has problems, is like admitting -they- have a problem. And they refuse to.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on September 17, 2017 9:27PM0 -
scipionumatia✭✭✭✭My buddy wanted to play this game and even with me guiding him he was getting frustrated. The game does have a huge learning curve and I've learned pretty much everything from the university of google and the forums from other players. The game tool tips don't really explain much. In fact me and my brother played the whole first year of our eso careers with the camera right over the shoulder. We didn't even know zooming was an option let alone how to zoom out! Lol
When a more senior player told us when we were doing HRC it blew our minds! We were like "this changes EVERYTHING!!!"Scipio Numantia Red guard Nightblade PvP- AD
Scipio Asiaticus Khajiit Nightblade (CRAFTER/DPS) PvE- EP
Altmer Nightblade PvP- EP
Fueoculto Breton Templar (DPS) PvE- EP
Rasoculto Orc Dragon Knight PvP- EP
Caethus Argonian Templar (HEAL) PvE- EP
Vale Oso Nord Sorc (DPS) PvE- AD
Sir-Galahad-the-pure Altmer Sorc (DPS) PvE- EP
Scipionumantine Imperial Templar PvP- EP
Un-bearable Imperial Warden PVP- EP
Vale Bear Altmer Warden PvP- EP
Baits-All-Zergs Argonian Dragon knight PVP- DC2 -
Bhaal5✭✭✭✭✭
✭Swtor and eso had something in common, both tried to suck money of the player based with a high sub boards with zero content. Why people raged at it and never looked back. Forcing both to rush free to play models. Both properties suffered heaps because of this greedy mistake.
To improve the customer experience, they really just have to do one thing, improve server quality and stop all the lag. Lag was bad a launch and still bad now. The one universal thing people leave this game because, more so eu and oceanic player, is the amount of lag in this mmo compared to others.
If server breaks, none gets done (nothing in three years)
If something wrong with crown crates, all devs on board (fixed in 24 hours)0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the only thing ZOS have to provide in a tutorial is a simple guide to the basics so as to enable you to get started, and the present tutorial does a decent job in that respect.
The things the OP is complaining about would overload any tutorial and don't relate to the main leveling content. He's talking primarily about group content in dungeons etc, and that's something that groups themselves should assist newcomers with. Sadly, judging by the past threads on this forum, the game is full of elite MMO "veterans" whose only approach to someone struggling in a group is to kick him from the group.
ZOS can only do so much to prepare the new player for what's ahead of him, other players have to do their bit too whether it's in a group, in a guild, in chat, or here on the forums.
Where I do agree with the OP is that ESO is more prone to these problems than most other MMORPGs because by its every nature it attracts players new to MMOs and whose only previous experience is the single-player TES series or similar single -player CRPGs. That simply means there's a greater onus on all of us to help them rather than humiliate them.
I agree with that, but the in game help menu explains all of it pretty in depth.I knew there were tutorial hints but I didn't even know the help section was that in depth.
Learn something new everyday.
it used to be pretty bare bones to be fair. It is very well thought out now. I was a huge vocal critic of how it used to be.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Also, are you kidding me with those feeds? "Well we have dungeons, mini dungeons, ultimate skills and weapon/armor enchant, just like all others mmorpg". Really? That's it? Just those basics? Not animation canceling, your game's best selling point? Not even skills rotation and combos, those of which gives PvE and PvP the meter to measure how good you are? Or even how gears are categorized into different sets, and those sets will determine your playstyle?
Animation cancelling is ESO's best selling point ? Are you for real ? Animation canceling is an advanced technique, not even intended by design, that's only relevant for say 1% of the population (and 1% or even less of the content).
The "just like all other MMORPGs" part is also irrelevant. The issue here is the retention of players who are completely new to MMOs, new to group play, and/or expecting Skyrim-online.
Also, ESO is NOT designed as a competitive game. Therefore the tutorials are meant to explain the combat systems, different types of skills, zones, delves and enemies. They are not supposed to teach anyone how to "git gud" because you don't have to "be gud" to play ESO and complete the quests. It would scare the hell out of most new players.
Actually animation canceling is intended. Please do some research first.
Also, if you don't explain about your unique features, then why the hell should people buy ESO in the first place?
If you just want dungeons, World PvP and small scale PvP, just go play GW2. And it's free.
But if you want to play a game with high ceiling skills gameplay, vast about of gears and diversity@laced So basically if all MMORPG are boring at first, then no MMORPG should improve upon that disadvantage? Really? This is why American still can't have a woman president. "Since it has always been like that, why should we be better?" It's called "evolve", and that's how we should always thrive forward.
Did you really compare the systematic oppression of women in the United states to a video game strategy which is tried and true? The beginnings of mmos are always boring because they are supposed to be super easy to let gamers get the hang of the game. If they make it super intricate and complex people would complain about that. And honestly, if you look at the beginning now vs the beginning when the game first came out, it is EONS more interesting. Hell, they even changed the dialogue options and some of the cinematics.
I stopped reading at the part "The beginning of MMOs are always boring". That's anti - consumer at best, and lazy at worst. If you're in this kind of industry, where imagination and innovative take the lead, this kind of thinking is unacceptable.
Wanna hear a story about innovation? Most RPG games in late 2000s tried to be as friendly and easy for new players as much as they can. Then came Dark Souls, and now we have 3 Dark Souls, 1 Bloodborne, a samurai Dark Souls called Nioh, a Sci fi called The Surge and an upcoming vampire Dark Souls called Code Veil. So please never say "The beginning of MMOs are always boring" ever again. It's not wrong, for now, but this is pure anti - innovative, and I despite it.
Dark souls is not an mmo, by any measure. It is a coop game. And people would flee in droves if any mmo was that difficult at first. There is a difference between difficult, and masochistic. That is what dark souls is for. Again, this is not an coop single player game, it is a mmorpg. Also, you clearly were not here at launch, when overland mobs were much much more difficult, and people were complain en masse about how difficult the beginning of the game was. So clearly, the majority did not want that. I wouldnt mind having more difficult beginnings, but this is a generational problem. And if you stop reading just because you dont agree with something - that - is the problem now adays with everything.
I think missing the point. I've never said that Dark Souls is an mmo, not by a long shot. What i'm saying is never ever put a whole genre of games into a stereotype. Such as "mmos will always be boring at first". Or "Shooter games are only for hardcore" (ahem, Overwatch). Or "Early access games are all cheap and lazily made" (ahem, PUBG). Or even "Stealth game will never catch on and become a thing" (said Konami executives, when Kojima told them about Metal Gear Solid).
Again, the beginning of ESO, at launch, was more difficult, so much so people were dying constantly from overland mobs of 3-4. People complained, -alot-, and it was changed at some point.
As for your comment about a "lacking" explanation of combat, please try again.
Literally the only thing missing is an explanation of animation cancelling, which I have said we need for a long time, but a simple " how did x player kill me so fast " communication to other players would get an explanation quickly.
You're missing the point, again. I've never said anything about ESO's difficulty for new comers, I'm merely talking about ZOS and how they poorly explain their own game.
Also, are you kidding me with those feeds? "Well we have dungeons, mini dungeons, ultimate skills and weapon/armor enchant, just like all others mmorpg". Really? That's it? Just those basics? Not animation canceling, your game's best selling point? Not even skills rotation and combos, those of which gives PvE and PvP the meter to measure how good you are? Or even how gears are categorized into different sets, and those sets will determine your playstyle? Or even how to farm those sets, where to farm those sets. They don't even explain how Major and Minor buffs with the same name cannot be stack upon each other with the same type of Major or Minor. Stop trying to defend ZOS from their poor job, please. Accept the fact that new comers are in blind, and force ZOS to do a better job explaining their own game. You're not helping the game by defending it, but hurting it by being so full of forgiveness.
If you would bother to read it explains synergies, and everything about combat as well, it is pretty clear you do not like the game and no matter how much you are shown the instructions you will still complain. Gj.
What are you even talking about at this point? I have 8 toons with over 3000 hours of gaming. I'm making this thread so that ESO can have a much more friendly and overall better experience for new comers. What you're trying to do is just blindly defending ZOS for their mistake, and preventing the game from its full potential. Good job.
Your original complaint was how ZoS does a bad job at explaining basic combat mechanics, the availablity of pvp, etc. I showed you they didn't. Then you complain about non mmo players not knowing basic mmo mechanics, so I showed you how they explain that too, then you say those are basic mmo mechanics and everyone should know them. You also complained that the beginning was too boring, and i explained how it used to be more difficult / fun (imo) and everyone complained, the very player you are trying to defend atm, complained about the more engaging beginning. Get out of here, you are complaining for the sake of complaining now. ZoS has listened to the "new" player base for a while now. I have been saying since the get go we need a animation cancelling tutorial, but really, that is it. If I see something that really is a problem, like the ever lasting bugs for certain classes, or the bad framerate issue, or the horrible servers, I will be the first to criticize, but what you are describing is not a problem.
And your "explanation" shows nothing, since there're nothing valuable to be show to begin with. What you shown is the basic of the basics that everyone would know. I'll not get out of here just because of a blind man tell me to. Sure, the game has tons of problems, but obviously, I don't need to say anything about them anymore, since there're nothing left for me to say. What I want to say though, is what people are misunderstood.
People like yourself see the game as a veteran, someone who has already been in the game for so long, it has become your 2nd life. I'm making this thread base on new comers perspective, from people online, and friends offline that have tried and failed to understand the game. I'm making this thread in order for ZOS to see how they can improve upon themselves. If my point reach ZOS, new comers will have a much better experience than ever.
On the other hand, your argument will resolve into nothing. ZOS won't appreciate you for defending their mistake, new comers will still have a lackcluster opening hours. No body wins.
So seriously, what are you trying to archive? You can't show me anything new, or teach me anything, since I've already know and read everything ingame before making this thread. Just stop. Please. You're preventing the game from evolve to its full potential, and it hurts everyone. It hurts new comers, me, ZOS, and even yourself. So stop.
2nd life? Are you kidding me? I took a 1 year break and a half a year break from this game because I wasnt happy with it, then recently I came back and am much more pleased with it now adays.I am cp 283, which is far from being a huge veteran player. I have never done hardmode dungeons, or trials because I never got any characters geared enough to do so. My life revolves around my transition, exercise, outdoor sports, and music. This is a fun little hobby of mine. I have literally debunked all your complaints through screen shots, and then every time you find something else to call the whambulance about. Good grief.
It was a metaphor, meaning that you've already known in and out of the game. Not calling you a weeb or anything. If I did sound like that then I'm sorry, cause it wasn't my intention.
Also, if you want to talk about life and experience, then I'm CP600 with 8 toons, all 5 classes included. I play all roles, dps, tank and healer. A lot time spent on PvP. I've already done vAA, vHRC and vSO. In real life, I'm a marketing working in the media and entertainment industry. And for what I've said is what I've collected from various sources. I might have only been working with my current job for 2 years, but what I have learnt is that first impressions are escentual for success of your product. If your product get criticized for bad first impression, you'll make sure that the problems is present, and instead of blindly defend yourself, improving your product seems to be a much better decision.
The thing is though, the population is stable, if not increasing, so more people hav a favorable first impression than not. You cannot please everyone. ZoS makes the game harder at launch, people complained, ZoS made it easier, people complained. People complained that the grind was too much, ZoS got rid of VR levels, people complained they got rid of vr levels. People complained about not having an in game instruction manual, ZoS makes one, people complain it doesnt explain EVERYTHING to the T.
Your point stay the same, even though I've pointed out that it's just pure anti - consumer. Stop saying things like "The game is fine", "the population is fine". Stop. I don't care if it's fine or not, but there'll always be room for improvement. The lag, the balance, something something, there'll always be things to be improved, and that include the ingame tutorial. Stop blindly say that "it's fine". If it's truly is fine, then those negative review for bad impression would be a lie? And even if it's true, why don't you want a better tutorial? Isn't that the point of MMOs? To evolve? To improve itself through time? Stop being so stiff and set everything into stone. You're indirectly harming the game for giving out fake illusion of how "fine" the game is.
The game is fine...other than the FPS drop.
Lol nope, there's alot wrong other than fps.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.
Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.
Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...
What is it with the Skyrim Online myth?
Is this seriously how people justify to themselves denegrading anyone with any criticism of the game? Is this the explination a warped mind comes up with for this?
And ZOS pandering to casuals? Are you out of your mind? Not on an endgame level. Not on a PVP level.
The fact Deltia and other content creators were the go to source for effective builds and advice wasn't a good thing. It was ZOS being lazy. They encouraged content creators, then discarded them when they were no longer willing to play ball. That's it. They roped in creators as a substitute for doing work.
The only person who is confused is you. Skyrim Online isn't even a phenominon anymore. People moved past that years ago. And those who come in to the MMO now have allready 'adapted' (IE: Self-brainwashed) or simply left. Casuals run out of road extremely quickly when PVP nor the endgame is built for them.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on September 18, 2017 12:03AM0