ESO has a terrible first impression to new comer

Pr0Skygon · September 2017

Bhaal5 wrote: »

Swtor and eso had something in common, both tried to suck money of the player based with a high sub boards with zero content. Why people raged at it and never looked back. Forcing both to rush free to play models. Both properties suffered heaps because of this greedy mistake.

To improve the customer experience, they really just have to do one thing, improve server quality and stop all the lag. Lag was bad a launch and still bad now. The one universal thing people leave this game because, more so eu and oceanic player, is the amount of lag in this mmo compared to others.

If server breaks, none gets done (nothing in three years)
If something wrong with crown crates, all devs on board (fixed in 24 hours)

Good news (sort of) Upcoming update 16 promises to improve FPS significantly. We'll see, hopefully it turns out to be what it was promised.

Pr0Skygon · September 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.

Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.

Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...

Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.

Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?
all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.

If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html

The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.

Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.

I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.

Betsararie · September 2017

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.

Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.

Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...

Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.

Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?
all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.

If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html

The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.

Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.

I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.

Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.

They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.

What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.

Teridaxus · September 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.

Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.

Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...

What is it with the Skyrim Online myth?

Is this seriously how people justify to themselves denegrading anyone with any criticism of the game? Is this the explination a warped mind comes up with for this?

And ZOS pandering to casuals? Are you out of your mind? Not on an endgame level. Not on a PVP level.

The fact Deltia and other content creators were the go to source for effective builds and advice wasn't a good thing. It was ZOS being lazy. They encouraged content creators, then discarded them when they were no longer willing to play ball. That's it. They roped in creators as a substitute for doing work.

The only person who is confused is you. Skyrim Online isn't even a phenominon anymore. People moved past that years ago. And those who come in to the MMO now have allready 'adapted' (IE: Self-brainwashed) or simply left. Casuals run out of road extremely quickly when PVP nor the endgame is built for them.

Op was talking about steam reviews, most negative ones are from 2014 where people wanted a skyrim online.
I complain about zos the whole time, i'm surely not someone who defend zos.
Anything can be done by regular people except vtrials and vma and vdsa unless you only see that as the only end game and those two things are niche things aimed for the top 5% of the players.
Is there even a game out there with newbie friendly pvp?

PlagueSD · September 2017

laced wrote: »

The problem is not the game, but the problem is the new kind of gamer now a days. They do not want, or do not even try to learn games, they expect to be spoon fed everything and anything right from the get go.

Nailed it!!!

wenchmore420b14_ESO · September 2017

Teridaxus wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.

Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.

Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...

What is it with the Skyrim Online myth?

Is this seriously how people justify to themselves denegrading anyone with any criticism of the game? Is this the explination a warped mind comes up with for this?

And ZOS pandering to casuals? Are you out of your mind? Not on an endgame level. Not on a PVP level.

The fact Deltia and other content creators were the go to source for effective builds and advice wasn't a good thing. It was ZOS being lazy. They encouraged content creators, then discarded them when they were no longer willing to play ball. That's it. They roped in creators as a substitute for doing work.

The only person who is confused is you. Skyrim Online isn't even a phenominon anymore. People moved past that years ago. And those who come in to the MMO now have allready 'adapted' (IE: Self-brainwashed) or simply left. Casuals run out of road extremely quickly when PVP nor the endgame is built for them.

Op was talking about steam reviews, most negative ones are from 2014 where people wanted a skyrim online.
I complain about zos the whole time, i'm surely not someone who defend zos.
Anything can be done by regular people except vtrials and vma and vdsa unless you only see that as the only end game and those two things are niche things aimed for the top 5% of the players.
Is there even a game out there with newbie friendly pvp?

There wasn't even ESO on steam till a while after launch, so most of them missed the "horrible Launch" that other reviewers posted.
OP mentioned that if ZoS would fix the tutorials, that maybe the bad reviews would stop.
They wont. I remember how everyone went on about how horrible ESO was because "Angry Joe" said so. And his review was crap! Most of those "So Called Reviewers" never played past level 20 and just were ranting to make ratings with their viewers.
Yes the game had and still does have problems, but as someone who has stayed since 2013, I am amazed at how much IMPROVED the game is!
Everyone is quick to get on the "fix this now" band wagon, but won't compliment ZoS for the massive improvements they have made..

Messy1 · September 2017

Very thoughtful post, I like how you put yourself in the shoes of the new players and I think you are right.

Morgul667 · September 2017

We need dungeon tutorials for each roles in normal.
Then difference between normal and veteran tutorial (when you reach cp 1 ?).

We need tutorials in beginner area (or when you reach level 10) to teach players the importance of sets, the way some skills scale of ressources and damages. The way to weave. Make it optional if you want (but strongly recommended)

I remember going to dungeon with 7k DPS and not knowing what I was doing wrong (at the beginning)

Beardimus · September 2017

Whilst I don't fully agree, I do get your point. Without this forum and all the big fan sites I wouldn't have a clue how to play this game.
It's my first MMORPG, however on console I have seen what you mean. A few friends tried it and just didn't get out of the first week. It's all just too much.

I'm unsure they can do that much more in game however, a full tutorial would be too complex.

Morgul667 · September 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

Whilst I don't fully agree, I do get your point. Without this forum and all the big fan sites I wouldn't have a clue how to play this game.
It's my first MMORPG, however on console I have seen what you mean. A few friends tried it and just didn't get out of the first week. It's all just too much.

I'm unsure they can do that much more in game however, a full tutorial would be too complex.

True but you can split the tutorials in different parts:

- one for dungeon (available at level 45)
- one for weaving (available at level 20)
- one for set and how to increase you damage (available at level 10)

SydneyGrey · September 2017

n/m

MakoFore · September 2017

As a content designer, and a person who works in entertainment and storytelling, the number one rule in questing games is:

1. your choices MUST matter. they must have significance- otherwise whats the point in questing- in playing a game that simulates life- if nothing matters anyway.

reason why people dont like the game is because questing absolutely sucks, there is no guide into the best content in the game the dungeons and cyrodil- how to be effective and not get absoultey smashed first time you go there. its enough to make you either join a zerg or give up. imagine a first time player going to a normal dungeon trying to dps- with no prior help. i went and i was abushing and cloaking -luckily i had help after that.

in terms of the central content- the questing aspects of the game are among the most poor i have ever seen. there is no problem solving, no choices, no consequences no right no wrong- no chance to even fail quests. you just walk from here to there, get something , kill something, walk back, quest done. when i did the quests i was severly dissappointed that there were no choices that made a difference in the world around me. sure its a world that we all share- so the mmo must have results that are consistent- but there are ways too make quests at least challening and involved. make 2 man quests , make quests determine what alliance you end up on - once you complete the main qeustline- depending on your choice- the game chooses what alliance you end up in. there are plenty of ways to make the game in a questing game better- the most impereative is this: the number one rule in questing games is:

1. your choices MUST matter. they must have significance- otherwise whats the point in questing- in playing a game that simulates life- if nothing matters anyway. ...unless its eso- and in that case- it all funnels to the same result.

MakoFore · September 2017

now i love the game - dont get me wrong, but the best stuff is at the end, the group trials, the pvp, build making, title and trophy collecting, motif farming, crafting, all that stuff is at the end. the issue is that for someoe that wants to see something cool in the first 3 hours of playing- they re not going to get it.

i think the opening starting zone should be an all for one pit- molag bal throws everyone into a pit- and you all kill each other until you end up in coldharbour. then you start a four man dungeon with whoever hapens to start with you- you rely on each other to figure out puzzles to get thru the very first zone. someone has to stand here why someone kills that, someone has to carry something to balance this- you get the idea.

but the game should carry on like this throughout. look at the top games around now like witcher or adventrue action games, the puzzles are awesome. i think the firs tthing they need to do is hire a new quest designer and puzzle designer to take the game to the next level. the old guys did their part- but the game wont go to the next level with more of ht same . morrowind was singularly the most boring zone of questing i have ever seen. even compared to the old 8 bit morrowind- the quests were nowhere near as fun, how can that possibly be!? im not being critical - im being constructive as someone who has played this game for over a year- hours a week- but wants the game to not grow stale as it has for so many already and unappealing for thje newer players.

Slick_007 · September 2017

SoLooney wrote: »

eso can be undaunting to most new players, esp if it is their first mmo. they try to enjoy quests and the story and if they played skyrim, are used to only light and heavy attacking and getting kills like that.

and what do these players hear when they get into the game? goto a dolmen for xp and light attack. they get taught from the newbie zones to be bored and not learn how to play.

if someone is asking how to get xp, they should not be told to goto a dolmen and sit on it.

Slick_007 · September 2017

MakoFore wrote: »

but the game should carry on like this throughout. look at the top games around now like witcher or adventrue action games, the puzzles are awesome. i think the firs tthing they need to do is hire a new quest designer and puzzle designer to take the game to the next level. the old guys did their part- but the game wont go to the next level with more of ht same . morrowind was singularly the most boring zone of questing i have ever seen. even compared to the old 8 bit morrowind- the quests were nowhere near as fun, how can that possibly be!? im not being critical - im being constructive as someone who has played this game for over a year- hours a week- but wants the game to not grow stale as it has for so many already and unappealing for thje newer players.

you are not describing an mmo. nobody in an mmo wants to do that. mmo players are the laziest players ever. they want everything spoonfed and A->B in the shortest possible time. no puzzles, no nothing. puzzles take time, and they'd rather dolmen bot.

Rulerkelso · September 2017

Hello,
as a new player i can say, that this game at least HAS some quick tutorial. Like FloppyTouch already mentioned, it is not standard for mmo games

Thing i would like to explain however, is how to properly invest skill points to build my character to be viable. There are many possible categories where these points can be invested and I suppose there is a limited amount of points available - I found somewhere that around 300?.
I did not find how/if these perks can be reset in the future to redistribute these points when i will be more acquainted with this game.

edit:
I just realized that here is also that crap "dungeon finder". I dont understand why almost every mmorpg need such rpg-unfriendly thing. I hope that endgame wont be just port-in/quick run/port-out/repeat

altemriel · September 2017

can I have your stuff?

Pr0Skygon · September 2017

Morgul667 wrote: »

We need dungeon tutorials for each roles in normal.
Then difference between normal and veteran tutorial (when you reach cp 1 ?).

We need tutorials in beginner area (or when you reach level 10) to teach players the importance of sets, the way some skills scale of ressources and damages. The way to weave. Make it optional if you want (but strongly recommended)

I remember going to dungeon with 7k DPS and not knowing what I was doing wrong (at the beginning)

That's a really cool idea. I'd love to see something like those.

leeux · September 2017

(('Sorry if I missed a post, I skimmed some posts that were unrelated to the OP's point))

I always thought, and didn't see it mentioned that one of the problems/barrier for some of the new players (i.e. specifically, the kind that prefers melee warriors and/or archer archetypes) is the fact that they have the disconnect at the start of the game, when you unlock your initial abilities for the first time and they see "WAT? They use MAGICKA?!"... (in fact, I saw one streamer during its first time play-through say exactly that.)

What ZOS does wrong IMHO is the fact that they HIDE the complete skill tree from the start... i.e. people CAN'T know that some abilities morph to stamina, or even the fact that there's MORPHS at all. It's really sad that there had to be an addon made for that, to solve a very basic UI design issue.

Also, IMO... the new "feature" of hiding whole skill trees from the skill menu, is the worse change ever introduced too... it doesn't let people see the big picture and PLAN the character accordingly... when they don't even know they can respec easily later, so it's understandable that they don't risk losing skills points to stuff that won't be useful (seemingly, at the start) to them immediately.

Most serious games I saw recently have a preview of what the ability does (as in, a mini video showing the move in an example situation), and depict the whole tree of skills and how they progress even if you don't have skill points to invest at that moment.

Also, it would be beneficial to categorize abilities more clearly, as in which are for direct damage, which are spammables, which ones are DoTs, which ones are special/CCs/status apply, etc. which ones are required to fulfill some group role...some of that is already present, but IMO is not clearly explained.

The Secret World is always the best example I have of this kind of information done well, as most of its combat is based in synergies between abilities and passives, and status effects that enhance subsequent abilities etc. and that information is VERY CLEARLY shown in its UI.

sudaki_eso · September 2017

First, ESO is their first MMORPG. Second, they have already played Skyrim. And finally, they have absolute no clue how to play the game.

Thats exactly how i started and i am still here

I had no clue what i was doing but was doing fine, read all the informations i got out of the loading screens and looked up the ingame help to keep me going - i guess that the problem, some people dont know its there or are too lazy too read...ZOS could certainly do something here to make people aware of the manual.
I agree with the dungeons part, there should be some basic tutorials for the roles and how to play them. It can be a very painful experience if you as a dps guy have to tank the boss cause the tank doesnt do [snip]....
Learning rotations comes from playing the game and guild members, not sure how to teach those with tutorials.

[Edited for profanity]

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.
They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.
What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.

@Nifty2g doesn't know how to play ?
RFLMAO !!!!

Nifty2g · September 2017

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.

Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.

Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...

Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.

Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?
all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.

If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html

The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.

Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.

I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.

Blanco wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

You confuse two different problems.
You could give them a private tutor, but those people wanted skyrim online and it would have make no difference.

Also zos already panders to casual people the whole time like morrowind being a huge starter zone basicly, the changed cp curve, the upcomming item transmutation and so many other things. ( I like those things actually, why does every game need to be grind hell and people with alts exist too)
About game information...the in game manual is pretty big and you can select the time frame in google and other search machines.

Zos and the community already offers a lot of help, but many people expect to be spoonfeeded with the perfect build considiring the you tube situation ...

Seriously, I've met CP300 players with 0 idea what the hell is animation canceling, since they've never even heard of that. That's not ok to me.

Because animation cancelling. does. not. matter.
Do you really need me to tell you why it does not matter, it should be fairly obvious, no?
all skills have cooldowns on them, thats why no matter what you can not bypass an internal cooldown after you use an ability. otherwise you would be able to cast an ability non stop. Just to stop you from saying this is what animation cancelling is, no. That is not correct, if you had no internal cooldown you could cast abilities on top of each other.

If you want to learn more about it check out this: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1625-ShowGlobalCooldown.html

The only time animation cancelling would be worth it is if you cast an ability and cancel that animation by swapping your bar, but that is so obvious and most people who do the "usual" set up would be doing that without even thinking about it.

Another form of animation cancelling is light attacking inbetween abilities but that is known as "light attack weaving" however they have changed how that works from how it used to and forced the light attack animation more. However you should still learn to light attack weave as that actually increases DPS by a lot. And they have also embraced this and made it a core mechanic as of Morrowind I think when light attack damage was increased.

I dare you go to Cyrodill without animation canceling, or do pull off 30K dps without it.

Yup, that person just flat out does not know how to play.

They even sound like a fairly senior player, and just can't grasp how animation cancelling IS FASTER. It is.

What are you talking about? What is this nonsense that is being spewed. Seriously what do people do in game where you don't understand this concept.

Are you both just purposely being silly at this point, did you read anything?
I can link you multiple videos of the guys I used to play with doing up to 50-60k dps if you like? (You should already know this about animation cancelling if you pay attention to any videos posted.)

I guess I'll repeat it, you can't bypass cooldowns like that.

Jade1986 · September 2017

Also, to the person that said ESO doesnt have built in buffs and debuffs, it is clear you never even bothered to go through the combat section of the options menu. This is vanilla, not an addon.

This just oes to show that people will complain without actually knowing what they are talking about, or actually knowing the game mechanics available without addons.

Merlin13KAGL · September 2017

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

For some reason today, I decided to read the review from steam and a lot of reviews from Youtube for ESO. People seems to be a lot more open to the game, but yet, every time a guy comment "I've tried the game with my friends for about a week, and it's boring as hell", this kind of comment get tons of upvote (or like). I decided to try and talk to these guys. They all seems to share something in common. First, ESO is their first MMORPG. Second, they have already played Skyrim. And finally, they have absolute no clue how to play the game. They play ESO just like how they play Skyrim, in first person mode, swinging light attack after light attack. They would never dodge or block, since nothing in early game can kill them. For them, dungeons are extremely boring, since they only play with 1 button, spamming it over and over again.

At first, I'm quite mad at them, since they can play online game, but have no idea how to use internet to search for a guide, or even find a PvP video on Youtube. But when I think hard about this, they're not exactly wrong, but miss guided. Even with the new tutorial from Morrowind, ZOS still do a very terrible job of explaining the basics of ESO. Animation canceling, how gearing works, how to actually do dps in dungeons, how to actually tank and bring a god damn taunt (seriously, I've met so many tank without taunt with Group finder).

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert Please do something about this. Teaching new players isn't a hard work. On the other hand, first impression is so important, and you're failing this aspect big time.

Seriously? While the tutorials could use some improvement, the base game is actually fairly intuitive if your IQ is in the double digits.

If they're bored, then this was never the type of game for them in the first place, or they never went anywhere or did anything.

A.C. / rotations could use an in game tutorial, perhaps suggesting basic combos and showing the buttons/timing on the screen. (Think Guitar Hero with a sword), but the rest I'm calling *** on.

If you play the game, read the tooltips, and talk to just about anyone, most of what you list as complaint can be sorted out. You're supposed to experiment with skills, gear, impossible/improbable setups to learn - that's what 1-50 is for.

Gear is right there in the description of the 2pc - 5pc bonuses provided.

The tanks you're referring to are either level 10, or they aren't tanks at all, they're DPS queuing as tank to get in faster, then wondering why the group gets its ass handed to it.

And my personal favorite:

since they can play online game, but have no idea how to use internet to search for a guide

You either live under a rock or have no business playing an MManything.

TL;DR While some things could be improved in game, vice coming from fellow players, you're going to get a few unfounded reviews because:

The reviewer never left the starter city and tried anything, if they even made it out of wailing/slave ship.
The reviewer didn't play long enough to get a proper sense of the game.
The reviewer is disgruntled for some arbitrary reason.
The reviewer is a moron.

As an example: The original Morrowind is "boring as hell" if you neverf make it off the initial dock.

For the thousands of players that had no issue with that, same as with ESO, the game is fine and doesn't require the level of handholding you imply.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Improvement would imply there is something wrong.
Since many devote themselves to the game, something wrong implies they're -lifestyle- is wrong, or at the very least, they're choice in MMO, or purchase, is wrong. It is the poison that all this corporate enthrallment stems from. Admitting the game has problems, is like admitting -they- have a problem. And they refuse to.

LoL. Just LoL.
If anything, people who take the game "as is" and enjoy whatever they enjoy from it are far healthier in their lifestyle and mind (pls note : *their*, not "they're", improvement starts with yourself) than people who intensively play a game while at the same time intensively criticizing it and asking things to be changed as if the future of humankind depended on it.

Slick_007 · September 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Seriously? While the tutorials could use some improvement, the base game is actually fairly intuitive if your IQ is in the double digits.

For the thousands of players that had no issue with that, same as with ESO, the game is fine and doesn't require the level of handholding you imply.

what pr0skygon wants is other players to be geared they way they think other players should, and to fight the way they think other players should and do everything the way they want people to. essentially they want to multibox without actually multiboxing.

there comes a point where tutorials are irrelevant because people dont want to do them when forced and spacebar everything anyway, or dont do them when optional because they dont want to do them. at some point you gotta tell people to cross the road on their own, traffic or not.

Bakkagami · September 2017

Urza1234 wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Not everybody has to like this game. If ESO is not your type of game there is no amount of guidance that will change it. And not everybody likes MMOs to begin with.
The game shows you where the skills are and how to use them. If you still resort to spamming light attacks then you're simply not trying.

Thats a *** *** approach.

Are you seriously arguing that customer retention is entirely the responsibility of the customer? Please do the world around you a favor and never go into business.

While I agree retention isn't on the consumer, in this case it's not really on ZOS. The tutorial is actually enough to tell you basics just like any games tutorial. (Tactical decisions such as weaving/skill rotations, ani-cancelling, group placement, and othrr higher level gameplay elements are almost never taught in a tutorial) The guys op mention seemed to not pay attention to any tutorials if they are just spamming light attacks as it teaches you to dodge, exploit, block, and use skills quite clearly. These individuals mistakenly go into eso thinking it's "skyrim with friends" and somehow go through all the tutorial and hint pop ups without paying an iota of attention.

Merlin13KAGL · September 2017

Agree, @Slick_007 . The tutorial benefit should be intended for absolutely new players (literally your first playthrough) and optional after that.

If someone refuses to play (thus refusing to learn), there is nothing anyone can do to help them.

If ZoS wanted to be clever about it, they could offer trainers, as they did in the standalone games, each offering different tiers of 'tutorials/practice' that you could optionally choose.

But absolutely, anyone that needs to "search for a a guide" to get anything at all out of the game isn't gonna make it anyway.

Storymaster · September 2017

I could see the added benefit of having two options available when a new characters is created:

the A - this is my first MMO tutorial that goes over the basic concepts of common roles, terms, etc
the B - I am an experienced MMO player, but this is my first time playing ESO option

That being said, trying to make something like ESO or any fantasy MMO appeal to someone that primarily enjoys instant-gratification deathmatch kill lobbies is never going to work.

Azurya · September 2017

WoW has some nice explainings for new players

why not ESO?