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ESO has a terrible first impression to new comer
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Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭inthecoconut wrote: »inthecoconut wrote: »SNIP
You say you didnt want "another hotbar game" but you download add ons to make it just like every other mmo out there with a ton of clutter......What made ESO unique was its minimalistic approach toward the UI. Its nice to see you are into the game now, but you should never go into an mmo expecting it to have aspects from a single player emphasized game with pvp aspects.
I don't have any UI add-ons. I know those might be popular. My add-ons consists of a helmet on/off toggle, Inventory grid view (instead of the Skyrim list), and a inventory sub category so I can look through my crap more specifically. Simple quality-of-life improvements. Or at least I feel like they are improvements. Some people might prefer scrolling through one item at a time. I've also considered resource/lorebook locations but I figured that might be against the ToS.
And I don't think there is anything wrong with looking at gameplay from successful single player games as inspiration for MMOs. In fact, I wish more games WOULD look to games like Dark Souls, Witcher, Nier Automata, ect. for more dynamic and engaging combat. We're heading there, slowly.
It just wouldnt work for an mmo. The lag would cause catostrophic problems with combat. I am completely against taking single player aspects and using them for an mmo. The combat in darksouls may be fast paced, but its monotonous AF.
I strongly disagree with "taking single player aspects and using them for an mmo". Not every aspect might or will work, but if that aspect seems legit and actually make sense to improve the game, why not?
For example, cinematic cutscense was once a single player game only thingy, but now it's a core aspect of FF14, WOW, GW2,... I'm not talking about putting cutscense in ESO, elder scrolls games have never had a cutscense, when they don't actually need one, yet obviously, there're single players aspect that might fit MMO games.
Another example is how BDO, a recently risen game, took the sandbox formula and combo button smashing from fighting games, and made them become the unique aspect of the game itself.0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭It is not the developers fault that new comers refuse to read. Sure, there are definite ways to go about by serving newcomers tutorials on a platter. But not in this game,nor any MMO I've ever played.
As diverse and expansive as MMOs are, one must not assume you can know everything about it from lvl 1. At some point, players should be held accountable for doing their own research, their own investigating. In return, from the minimized tutorial that ESO gives you, while researching ahead, you'll end up enjoying the game THAT much better, and probably be playing THAT much longer, which results in better value for your dollar spent.
I do understand that there're little, or even 0 MMORPG that actually do justice explaining itself, yet that does not mean you can let ZOS be lazy at this aspect.
If you want to compare ESO to other MMORPG, then I'll point you to BDO and FF14, where you can play the first 5 hours, and be totally comfortable with everything around you. Note that I said "comfortable", it doesn't mean the game has nothing more for players to learn, those games seemly make the learning curve a lot more tolerable.0 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭
I mean seriously, look at this in game manual, you will be hard pressed to find a game manual this in depth in any other mmo.
Do those feeds tell you that you can animation cancel? Do those feeds tell you that you should not spam 1 skill only as a dps in dungeons? Do those feeds tell you what the hell does a tank do in dungeon?
What do those feeds tell you actually? How to chat, how to walk, how to sneak, how remap my controls, how to resolve a bug. Give me a break with those useless feeds. Having something done, but poorly, will resolve nothing.
What those tell you are the tools for you to find out more about the game. It's about discovery. Venturing into unknown roles. You teach a man to fish, not give the fish. And for that man to learn how to fish, he has to well... Fish. Animation cancelling was a community addons so to speak, it wasn't part of the original idea of the devs(regardless what people might say about it). But if the player doesn't want to learn more in depth about a certain role without trying it even, then it was a lost cause in the first place.
If everything was already given on a silver platter, then nothing else would need to be discovered. That is what elder scrolls is all about anyway, discovering stories and places and the things you can do with your character.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!1 -
Bhaal5✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also a point to consider, is the location of connection/ where eso is been played. Responses from people in the states will be a lot different than people from Malaysia/Australia/new zealand or the guys and girls from uk and Europe.
(Lag in the oceanic region has been horrendous on both pc(first 3 months after release) and ps4 (the last 18 months))
Food for thought in the debate here0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »
I mean seriously, look at this in game manual, you will be hard pressed to find a game manual this in depth in any other mmo.
Do those feeds tell you that you can animation cancel? Do those feeds tell you that you should not spam 1 skill only as a dps in dungeons? Do those feeds tell you what the hell does a tank do in dungeon?
What do those feeds tell you actually? How to chat, how to walk, how to sneak, how remap my controls, how to resolve a bug. Give me a break with those useless feeds. Having something done, but poorly, will resolve nothing.
What those tell you are the tools for you to find out more about the game. It's about discovery. Venturing into unknown roles. You teach a man to fish, not give the fish. And for that man to learn how to fish, he has to well... Fish. Animation cancelling was a community addons so to speak, it wasn't part of the original idea of the devs(regardless what people might say about it). But if the player doesn't want to learn more in depth about a certain role without trying it even, then it was a lost cause in the first place.
If everything was already given on a silver platter, then nothing else would need to be discovered. That is what elder scrolls is all about anyway, discovering stories and places and the things you can do with your character.
Ok I might have given you the wrong idea. I do not want ZOS to hold hand everyone and take them through out the hold game like Willy Wonka. What I want instead, is ZOS giving an inception. For example, in the loading screen, there can be a text say "Do you know that weapon/spell damage is not the only factor that determine your skills's damage?" And that's it, just 1 line that will give players an idea, a question for them to discover. At the current state, I wouldn't consider the guiding feeds as such idea. The structure of most guiding feeds is the closure type, which leave nothing to be desired.
And let's be real, we all know how well ZOS can teach us about their game, I don't want that to happen. But a hint, an inception is what I believe the game should give new comers.1 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If this guys are lazy enough (or clueless enough) not to check any guide, then zos making a tutorial won't help either.
This game isn't just for everyone. If you are blind you won't be able to play it either. You can't build a game for 100% of population.
If people think ESO isn't meant for everyone i'd like them to try BDO ha.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »
I mean seriously, look at this in game manual, you will be hard pressed to find a game manual this in depth in any other mmo.
Do those feeds tell you that you can animation cancel? Do those feeds tell you that you should not spam 1 skill only as a dps in dungeons? Do those feeds tell you what the hell does a tank do in dungeon?
What do those feeds tell you actually? How to chat, how to walk, how to sneak, how remap my controls, how to resolve a bug. Give me a break with those useless feeds. Having something done, but poorly, will resolve nothing.
What those tell you are the tools for you to find out more about the game. It's about discovery. Venturing into unknown roles. You teach a man to fish, not give the fish. And for that man to learn how to fish, he has to well... Fish. Animation cancelling was a community addons so to speak, it wasn't part of the original idea of the devs(regardless what people might say about it). But if the player doesn't want to learn more in depth about a certain role without trying it even, then it was a lost cause in the first place.
If everything was already given on a silver platter, then nothing else would need to be discovered. That is what elder scrolls is all about anyway, discovering stories and places and the things you can do with your character.
@RavenSworn
The Elder Scrolls Series has had simple combat systems. Comparing them to a MMO and saying they want you to discover is a cop out. Your explination isn't applicable to a system that has become this complicated. Stop drinking the apologist cool-aid.
Taking a philosophy from a game where the most melee combat complexity was when to shieldbash, and when to heavy attack, and applying it to a system of this sheer size and complexity over the years does not work and I would venture to say, is willfully dishonest.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on October 9, 2017 12:12AM1 -
Yarlenzey✭✭✭✭It helps if u treat other plauers like npcs.I got suspenders for saying "Testicular Mass" instead of "Balls". like, rilly.0 -
wenchmore420b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »
I mean seriously, look at this in game manual, you will be hard pressed to find a game manual this in depth in any other mmo.
Do those feeds tell you that you can animation cancel? Do those feeds tell you that you should not spam 1 skill only as a dps in dungeons? Do those feeds tell you what the hell does a tank do in dungeon?
What do those feeds tell you actually? How to chat, how to walk, how to sneak, how remap my controls, how to resolve a bug. Give me a break with those useless feeds. Having something done, but poorly, will resolve nothing.
What those tell you are the tools for you to find out more about the game. It's about discovery. Venturing into unknown roles. You teach a man to fish, not give the fish. And for that man to learn how to fish, he has to well... Fish. Animation cancelling was a community addons so to speak, it wasn't part of the original idea of the devs(regardless what people might say about it). But if the player doesn't want to learn more in depth about a certain role without trying it even, then it was a lost cause in the first place.
If everything was already given on a silver platter, then nothing else would need to be discovered. That is what elder scrolls is all about anyway, discovering stories and places and the things you can do with your character.
Ok I might have given you the wrong idea. I do not want ZOS to hold hand everyone and take them through out the hold game like Willy Wonka. What I want instead, is ZOS giving an inception. For example, in the loading screen, there can be a text say "Do you know that weapon/spell damage is not the only factor that determine your skills's damage?" And that's it, just 1 line that will give players an idea, a question for them to discover. At the current state, I wouldn't consider the guiding feeds as such idea. The structure of most guiding feeds is the closure type, which leave nothing to be desired.
And let's be real, we all know how well ZOS can teach us about their game, I don't want that to happen. But a hint, an inception is what I believe the game should give new comers.
There already is... Every load screen gives a player tip..i.e."You can attain weapon swapping at level 15"..and a lore tid-bit..
Every load screen does this... But no one reads them obviously.. There are plenty of "how to play" tips all through the game, but seems people won't take the time to actually find and use them... Hense "Hand Holding."Drakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
Sister Guilds with: Coroner's Report, Children of Skyrim, Sunshine Daydream, Tamriel Fisheries, Knights Arcanum and more
"Not All Who Wander are Lost"
#MOREHOUSINGSLOTS“When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”
_Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)0 -
Barbaran✭✭✭✭ESO has some broken issues they SEEM to be activly trying to fix without completly revamping everything.
but name ONE game where everyone agrees that the game is perfect.
every game has a community of players that continue to play but in the same breath will say "this game is broken or garbage"1