Shieldbreaker escaped proc set nerfs

Drummerx04 · September 2017

Okay, so here's the thing. People act like equipping shieldbreaker is like a 50% dps loss and totally useless against non shield users. Here's a thought for you, did you know that in small groups or even large groups, I use healing ward to protect my allies? I know I know, protecting your allies is a foreign concept to most pugs, but suddenly shieldbreaker affects non shield users.

What are the bonuses on the set? (max stam (2), stam recovery (3), weapon damage (4)?)
So it's a decent mix of sustain, max resources, and damage. You can shift around one or two enchants on your jewelry based on your needs.

What set is it replacing for stam users? Viper probably. So you are losing the double crit chance of questionable usefulness given impen, Cp crit resists, and uncritable shields, gaining weapon damage and stam recovery, and then replacing the 1k dot with a situational 2k dot that ignores all defenses save for healing.

I guess a more serious question is, what are stam players equipping instead that performs so much better that shieldbreaker isn't viable?

Here's a fun encounter I had in cyro. I ran up to the cliff near bleaks to stop/stall the siege. There were 4 players, not a big deal, I didn't recognize any of the players, no threatening guild tabbards, etc. Well guess what. The magsorc in the EP group was running shieldbreaker and he dealt the majority of the damage that eventually killed me (fury from the same foe was the kb).

I find a good general rule is as follows: When a set is pointedly designed to be worn by stam dps characters, but its core functionality is delivered with exactly the same effectiveness on a mag toon, something is probably overperforming with the set. Can you even comprehend the irony of shieldbreaker delivered by a shield stacking magsorc?

Biro123 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Threads these days:

> Someone makes a "Sorc are OP in Cyrodil and needs nerf, shieldstacking is OP"
> Sorcs runs to the thread to write stuff like "L2P git gut, sorcs are easy to kill if you know how to play"
> Someone decides to use hardcounters for sorc specificly and starts using shieldbreaker.
> Sorcs starts complaining about shieldbreaker being OP because it´s a counter to their class/build

lmao this thread is gold.

Actually, apart from the OP and one other guy (and neither are asking for a total removal), all I see here are the sorc-haters reacting as if the sorcs are all here en-mass, defending the OP - but they're not...

fwiw, my view of shieldbreaker is that its simply too polarised.... useless vs non-shield-users, too strong vs shield-users. Combined means you don't see it all that often, but you can guarantee that when you do encounter it, it'll ALWAYS be followed by a t-bag - kind of showing the kind of people who are using it...

imho, it needs to be more effective vs everyone else and less effective vs shields - ie it should still be a counter to shields but use a different mechanism. One that will make the set more used, but less of a hard-counter. At least make it so that actual abilities need to be used as well to score a kill.

Yeah thank you for this. All I did was point out that a proc set is currently going against ZoS's current stance on overperforming proc sets, and just wow. Why don't you sorc haters tell us how you really feel?

I expected the "all magsorcs deserve to die and have every defensive, mobility, and offensive skill nerfed into literal uselessness" crowd to surface, but I'm a little surprised they can't recognize the irony in calling magsorc brainless easy mode, then crutching on a set that comes with a complementary "Sorc Hunters" guild tabbard and functions to destroy magsorcs by spamming light attacks from the safety of your group.

bmannb16_ESO · September 2017

castorein wrote: »

How to avoid shieldbreaker proc damage:
Dont spam cast your shields-> no shield means no proc damage

No shield = dead, pretty crap option.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2017

This set is not a proc, Proc is an acronym for a programmed random occurrence that refers to a weapon, item or ability activating with the "Chance on Hit" or "Chance on Use" effect (an ability or a spell).

Waffennacht · September 2017

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

2000 damage per tic, LOL...

Every damn nerf of buff in this game is for Mag Sorcs, and your still crying? Sheild breaker was just nerfed on staffs because MagSorcs couldn't handle that, what else?

regen poison nerf
defending weapon nerf
Viper nerf
increase mundus
increase magika
got rid of the DK heavy attack inferno staff build
Necropotence Buff

every buff/nerf the past year has either directly or indirectly helped magSorcs, 80% of Cyrodil or Battlegrounds is sheild stacking Sorcs, wanna do a Vet Trial... need a Sorc, LOL

Can't even believe I read this crap, try playing a real class for a while instead of just copying the Meta.

Pretty sure Necro lost a total of 600 ish magicka

DocFrost72 · September 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Okay, so here's the thing. People act like equipping shieldbreaker is like a 50% dps loss and totally useless against non shield users. Here's a thought for you, did you know that in small groups or even large groups, I use healing ward to protect my allies? I know I know, protecting your allies is a foreign concept to most pugs, but suddenly shieldbreaker affects non shield users.

What are the bonuses on the set? (max stam (2), stam recovery (3), weapon damage (4)?)
So it's a decent mix of sustain, max resources, and damage. You can shift around one or two enchants on your jewelry based on your needs.

What set is it replacing for stam users? Viper probably. So you are losing the double crit chance of questionable usefulness given impen, Cp crit resists, and uncritable shields, gaining weapon damage and stam recovery, and then replacing the 1k dot with a situational 2k dot that ignores all defenses save for healing.

I guess a more serious question is, what are stam players equipping instead that performs so much better that shieldbreaker isn't viable?

No, viper is not as popular now that is a dot. Most people are running bone pirate and hundings, or a loose variation of that. I'd end up swapping BP for shieldbreaker, no way I'm giving up 300 wd.

Bone pirate's tatters:

Max stam, stam recovery, max stam,

When you have a drink buff active, you gain 150 stamina recovery and 2000 max stamina.

Shieldbreaker' 5 pieces is 100% useless on (almost) all stam setups and quite a few magic setups (templars and magplars heal, magdks permablock).

You're giving up really good sustain to take out maybe half of Cyrodiil. That's why you won't see a lot of people going for shieldbreaker: way too specific.

And as for your story, it was 4v1. You were outnumbered and underestimated your opponents.

Stam wardens use the healing ult, mag toons use dawnbreaker (not that it hits less now that people seem to be favoring vampire). Using an effective tool is using an effective tool.

Again, your largest complaint seems to be that it empowers those outnumbering you, but it only counters some (read: a few) builds.

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Okay, so here's the thing. People act like equipping shieldbreaker is like a 50% dps loss and totally useless against non shield users. Here's a thought for you, did you know that in small groups or even large groups, I use healing ward to protect my allies? I know I know, protecting your allies is a foreign concept to most pugs, but suddenly shieldbreaker affects non shield users.

What are the bonuses on the set? (max stam (2), stam recovery (3), weapon damage (4)?)
So it's a decent mix of sustain, max resources, and damage. You can shift around one or two enchants on your jewelry based on your needs.

What set is it replacing for stam users? Viper probably. So you are losing the double crit chance of questionable usefulness given impen, Cp crit resists, and uncritable shields, gaining weapon damage and stam recovery, and then replacing the 1k dot with a situational 2k dot that ignores all defenses save for healing.

I guess a more serious question is, what are stam players equipping instead that performs so much better that shieldbreaker isn't viable?

No, viper is not as popular now that is a dot. Most people are running bone pirate and hundings, or a loose variation of that. I'd end up swapping BP for shieldbreaker, no way I'm giving up 300 wd.

Bone pirate's tatters:

Max stam, stam recovery, max stam,

When you have a drink buff active, you gain 150 stamina recovery and 2000 max stamina.

Shieldbreaker' 5 pieces is 100% useless on (almost) all stam setups and quite a few magic setups (templars and magplars heal, magdks permablock).

You're giving up really good sustain to take out maybe half of Cyrodiil. That's why you won't see a lot of people going for shieldbreaker: way too specific.

And as for your story, it was 4v1. You were outnumbered and underestimated your opponents.

Stam wardens use the healing ult, mag toons use dawnbreaker (not that it hits less now that people seem to be favoring vampire). Using an effective tool is using an effective tool.

Again, your largest complaint seems to be that it empowers those outnumbering you, but it only counters some (read: a few) builds.

This. Same as people complaining about stam toons slotting resto + ult. All depends on your build so no way to just say something along like "stam sets slotted by mag toons are overperforming" or " "mag ults" slotted by stam toons are OP".

Derra · September 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Okay, so here's the thing. People act like equipping shieldbreaker is like a 50% dps loss and totally useless against non shield users. Here's a thought for you, did you know that in small groups or even large groups, I use healing ward to protect my allies? I know I know, protecting your allies is a foreign concept to most pugs, but suddenly shieldbreaker affects non shield users.

What are the bonuses on the set? (max stam (2), stam recovery (3), weapon damage (4)?)
So it's a decent mix of sustain, max resources, and damage. You can shift around one or two enchants on your jewelry based on your needs.

What set is it replacing for stam users? Viper probably. So you are losing the double crit chance of questionable usefulness given impen, Cp crit resists, and uncritable shields, gaining weapon damage and stam recovery, and then replacing the 1k dot with a situational 2k dot that ignores all defenses save for healing.

I guess a more serious question is, what are stam players equipping instead that performs so much better that shieldbreaker isn't viable?

No, viper is not as popular now that is a dot. Most people are running bone pirate and hundings, or a loose variation of that. I'd end up swapping BP for shieldbreaker, no way I'm giving up 300 wd.

Bone pirate's tatters:

Max stam, stam recovery, max stam,

When you have a drink buff active, you gain 150 stamina recovery and 2000 max stamina.

Shieldbreaker' 5 pieces is 100% useless on (almost) all stam setups and quite a few magic setups (templars and magplars heal, magdks permablock).

You're giving up really good sustain to take out maybe half of Cyrodiil. That's why you won't see a lot of people going for shieldbreaker: way too specific.

And as for your story, it was 4v1. You were outnumbered and underestimated your opponents.

Stam wardens use the healing ult, mag toons use dawnbreaker (not that it hits less now that people seem to be favoring vampire). Using an effective tool is using an effective tool.

Again, your largest complaint seems to be that it empowers those outnumbering you, but it only counters some (read: a few) builds.

If you´re running a 5 5 2 setup with different frontbar backbar sets shieldbreaker comes at the cost of the backbar set for nb. That means: Eternal Hunt, Senche, Marksman or something along those lines.

Not too bad of a tradeoff. Set is still useful against DKs using leap/igneous.

Ofc that requires a bow

which is probably the only hinderance for some people.

waitwhat · September 2017

Wait doesn't shieldbreaker only proc with lightning stave heavy attacks now? That was in the patch notes but I haven't tested it on live.

Biro123 · September 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

Wait doesn't shieldbreaker only proc with lightning stave heavy attacks now? That was in the patch notes but I haven't tested it on live.

No, the change was to make it only tick on the last hit of a lightning heavy attack instead of all ticks.
It still works with all other weapons.

Beardimus · September 2017

I'm surprised people still think Sorcs are Op like really.

It's hilarious people think they need this set to take them on.

I'm with ya Op on the point that armour should not do big damage, its stupid. Procs are crap. However if someone wants to wear a set solely to take on Sorcs as they can't L2P..... Well its funny if anything as they then are disadvantaged against other players

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

I'm surprised people still think Sorcs are Op like really.

It's hilarious people think they need this set to take them on.

I'm with ya Op on the point that armour should not do big damage, its stupid. Procs are crap. However if someone wants to wear a set solely to take on Sorcs as they can't L2P..... Well its funny if anything as they then are disadvantaged against other players

Yes they are but this set is not a proc, Proc is an acronym for a programmed random occurrence that refers to a weapon, item or ability activating with the "Chance on Hit" or "Chance on Use" effect (an ability or a spell). With this set, you KNOW every light or heavy will do damage through sheilds, nothing random here.

Drummerx04 · September 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

This set is not a proc, Proc is an acronym for a programmed random occurrence that refers to a weapon, item or ability activating with the "Chance on Hit" or "Chance on Use" effect (an ability or a spell).

Here's my counter: The "Chance on Hit" to proc 2k oblivion damage is 100% when the target has a shield and 0% otherwise and thus still falls under the definition of "Programmed random occurrence"

I guess we both learned something new today.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

This set is not a proc, Proc is an acronym for a programmed random occurrence that refers to a weapon, item or ability activating with the "Chance on Hit" or "Chance on Use" effect (an ability or a spell).

Here's my counter: The "Chance on Hit" to proc 2k oblivion damage is 100% when the target has a shield and 0% otherwise and thus still falls under the definition of "Programmed random occurrence"

I guess we both learned something new today.

There is nothing chance about it. If there is a damage sheild, you get damage, if there is not, you don't. There is no more chance in that then you pressing the 1 button to damage or not. This is really not that hard to understand.

Drummerx04 · September 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

This set is not a proc, Proc is an acronym for a programmed random occurrence that refers to a weapon, item or ability activating with the "Chance on Hit" or "Chance on Use" effect (an ability or a spell).

Here's my counter: The "Chance on Hit" to proc 2k oblivion damage is 100% when the target has a shield and 0% otherwise and thus still falls under the definition of "Programmed random occurrence"

I guess we both learned something new today.

There is nothing chance about it. If there is a damage sheild, you get damage, if there is not, you don't. There is no more chance in that then you pressing the 1 button to damage or not. This is really not that hard to understand.

Okay, this should be fun. 100% is a perfectly valid chance for a random occurrence.

If you can't accept that 100% is a valid value here, then I now claim that the "chance on hit" for shieldbreaker on shielded targets is actually 99.99999999%. Now by your definition of "proc effect" shieldbreaker is indeed random, since there is now a chance of failure. However, now you have differentiated two practically equivalent values in a definition of "proc" which makes your argument asinine at best.

I could probably write a proof by contradiction based on induction to generate an equivalence between our definitions of random (essentially 99.99999... = 100), but I think we can agree that such an exercise really isn't worth either of our times.

This is really not that hard to understand. Shieldbreaker is a proc set. Get over it.

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

This set is not a proc, Proc is an acronym for a programmed random occurrence that refers to a weapon, item or ability activating with the "Chance on Hit" or "Chance on Use" effect (an ability or a spell).

Here's my counter: The "Chance on Hit" to proc 2k oblivion damage is 100% when the target has a shield and 0% otherwise and thus still falls under the definition of "Programmed random occurrence"

I guess we both learned something new today.

There is nothing chance about it. If there is a damage sheild, you get damage, if there is not, you don't. There is no more chance in that then you pressing the 1 button to damage or not. This is really not that hard to understand.

Just like viper isn't considered a proc set?

Biro123 · September 2017

Why be so pedantic as to where the term came from when everyone understands what people mean by a proc set?
Language and its meanings change over time. Arguing over it is pointless.

Lord-Otto · September 2017

Yes, 99.99% to 100% makes all the difference. No, Viper is not a proc set. The Lich proc is no proc, neither. Doesn't matter, however.

I think a single Shieldbreaker is fine. But having snipe squads in the back of a zerg is just another number-empowering tool.

Suggestion:
Make it melee-only to prevent more zerging down. Or leave it with bow, but let it fire a single telegraphed mortar, like Infernal Guardian. Just to prevent cheap tactics, without eliminating it from effective counter builds.

Is that agreeable?

Sarousse · September 2017

Good sorcs I face in Cyrodiil don't give a *** about me having shieldbreaker, they just adapt and still destroy me.

It's only powerful against bad players. And there are tons, and they come here on forums and whine.

Mayrael · September 2017

Shieldbreaker in its current form is one of the most braindead tactics in the game, even viper required to go melee in its best (not counting bug with poison enchant). Good mag sorcs are hard to kill? Yes. Just like permablocking dk tanks, magplar healbots, magblade cloak and shield spammers, stamblade rollers etc. etc. If you cant kill mag sorc without shieldbreaker, dont you dare to call your self PvP player.

What would be nice to be done? Change its mechanics. There is many options like:
"Light and heavy attacks break any shields of your target giving him cc immunity" - 6s cool down.
"Light and heavy attacks double the cost of shield skills for 5s" - 10s cool down.

And many more ideas making shields less efficient but not making them totaly useless against this set users.

Qbiken · September 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

This set is not a proc, Proc is an acronym for a programmed random occurrence that refers to a weapon, item or ability activating with the "Chance on Hit" or "Chance on Use" effect (an ability or a spell).

Here's my counter: The "Chance on Hit" to proc 2k oblivion damage is 100% when the target has a shield and 0% otherwise and thus still falls under the definition of "Programmed random occurrence"

I guess we both learned something new today.

There is nothing chance about it. If there is a damage sheild, you get damage, if there is not, you don't. There is no more chance in that then you pressing the 1 button to damage or not. This is really not that hard to understand.

Just like viper isn't considered a proc set?

To be honest, I never considered viper a proc-set. I go by the definition with a random % chance to occur. And a 100% chance is not random, and therefore not a proc-set. And I don´t get why people discuss shieldbreaker from the "proc-set" point of view. Isn´t shieldbreaker oblivion-damage?? It can´t crit anyway if I remember it correctly.

Biro123 · September 2017

Sarousse wrote: »

Good sorcs I face in Cyrodiil don't give a *** about me having shieldbreaker, they just adapt and still destroy me.

It's only powerful against bad players. And there are tons, and they come here on forums and whine.

No - its just a zerg tool and nothing more. 1v1 its not a problem. I find that most shieldbreaker users are generally total noobs who have no idea how to fight a sorc, so still die just as quickly when the sorc knows who they are and can target them.

But zerg v zerg, A sorc generally knows how many enemies he can move into range of and how long for to cast his rotation.. But one shieldbreaker user in the middle of the opposing zerg screws this up - and the fine-line that marks how much pressure the sorc can take from that many people is totally out of whack - ie.. it messes up judgement calls because it makes such a huge difference in that incoming pressure.

I honestly cannot remember ever fighting a shieldbreaker user when not either outnumbered by at least 3v1, or without them hiding in the middle of a zerg.

I'm guessing when you say 'good sorcs', you're talking about those who speck mobility/sustain, and kite you away from your buddies knowing your sorc-hating self will follow them to the ends of the earth... then when they get you alone, remind you just how little clue you have when it comes to fighting sorcs..

Drummerx04 · September 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

This set is not a proc, Proc is an acronym for a programmed random occurrence that refers to a weapon, item or ability activating with the "Chance on Hit" or "Chance on Use" effect (an ability or a spell).

Here's my counter: The "Chance on Hit" to proc 2k oblivion damage is 100% when the target has a shield and 0% otherwise and thus still falls under the definition of "Programmed random occurrence"

I guess we both learned something new today.

There is nothing chance about it. If there is a damage sheild, you get damage, if there is not, you don't. There is no more chance in that then you pressing the 1 button to damage or not. This is really not that hard to understand.

Just like viper isn't considered a proc set?

To be honest, I never considered viper a proc-set. I go by the definition with a random % chance to occur. And a 100% chance is not random, and therefore not a proc-set. And I don´t get why people discuss shieldbreaker from the "proc-set" point of view. Isn´t shieldbreaker oblivion-damage?? It can´t crit anyway if I remember it correctly.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that no one is willing to budge even when given a loose mathematical reasoning to assert that 100% chance can still be considered random.

Fill a bag with only red marbles. Randomly select 1. Surprise, 100% chance it's red, yet it was still chose randomly. You'll accept that 99.999...% to arbitrary repeating decimals is random, but when that repeating decimal is infinite, it is equivalent to 100% and suddenly it's not random?

Either way, proc has become a term for armor that does damage for you or otherwise applies some sort of buff (because "god dammit wrobel set" takes too long to say in casual conversation), and my original post is asserting that the set over performs at its given task.

Lord-Otto · September 2017

Oh, god.
So when I buy an orange, it's random because I randomly chose an orange?
Are you for real? Do you ever step back and consider what you're saying? I can't believe this. Don't know whether to laugh or to cry...

Pastas · September 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Is there really groups out in cyro running shield breaker?

Yes, you know those AD stamblade groups? I've encountered the same groups and players for months now. At least 4 of them are now primarily running shield breaker (good stamblades, not ones that just roll over and die when you look at them), or at the very least slot it when they see me coming (yeah kudos for planning ahead).

Kram8ion wrote: »

Groups in shield breaker sounds hilarious but unlikely

Come talk to me when you encounter 2 grand overlord, permadodge, shade porting, cloaking stamblades each running shieldbreaker, and running with a magDK for lockdown and dot pressure.

Oh, or my personal favorite. A pack of 6 Werewolves and one or two of them were wearing shieldbreaker.

castorein wrote: »

How to avoid shieldbreaker proc damage:
Dont spam cast your shields-> no shield means no proc damage

Oh? Don't cast shields? Wow, why didn't I think of that? Oh right, because a NB running shieldbreaker can still land an 8k incap.

@DocFrost72 For the suggestion to run mutagen and critsurge to counter shieldbreaker, I want to point out that you have to be actively dealing damage and landing hits for surge to proc. You are not attacking while shielding the rest of the damage, and you are not landing hits that get dodged or "missed" with cloak. Add in more time lost for breaking CC or dodging or even blocking a CC.

But a real player will also apply actual damage in a 1v1, and if the player is even a little decent, some of that damage will make it through the shields. Your mutagen and surge get overcome very quickly in practice. Yes, resto ult is also an option, but at that point you are sacrificing offensive burst which you NEED to kill some of the players pressuring with this set. Miat's and similar addons make dodging frag burst a joke.

Look, I understood that this topic would be unpopular because sorcs are just so OP, and thus people think it's fair or their right to bypass shields with oblivion damage. Hell in zone chat I'll see complaints that 5+ people couldn't kill this one magsorc then subsequently wiped to him, then some random 300CP AR16 stamblade and I go in and kill him within a minute or two. But we can't call that an L2P issue or we trigger someone else.

Let me propose some 5 piece sets to give you an idea of why shieldbreaker is basically broken powerful.

Dodgebreaker: If your enemy dodges your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).
Guardbreaker: If your enemy blocks your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).

I mean what's the problem? If you don't dodge or block the light attacks then you won't take any damage from the set... Oh wait, that's your primary method of mitigating damage? Too bad, that guy in the back is wearing a 5 piece set.

Dodge has plenty of counters in the game right now, no need to equip a set for that.

Lord-Otto · September 2017

Pastas wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Is there really groups out in cyro running shield breaker?

Yes, you know those AD stamblade groups? I've encountered the same groups and players for months now. At least 4 of them are now primarily running shield breaker (good stamblades, not ones that just roll over and die when you look at them), or at the very least slot it when they see me coming (yeah kudos for planning ahead).

Kram8ion wrote: »

Groups in shield breaker sounds hilarious but unlikely

Come talk to me when you encounter 2 grand overlord, permadodge, shade porting, cloaking stamblades each running shieldbreaker, and running with a magDK for lockdown and dot pressure.

Oh, or my personal favorite. A pack of 6 Werewolves and one or two of them were wearing shieldbreaker.

castorein wrote: »

How to avoid shieldbreaker proc damage:
Dont spam cast your shields-> no shield means no proc damage

Oh? Don't cast shields? Wow, why didn't I think of that? Oh right, because a NB running shieldbreaker can still land an 8k incap.

@DocFrost72 For the suggestion to run mutagen and critsurge to counter shieldbreaker, I want to point out that you have to be actively dealing damage and landing hits for surge to proc. You are not attacking while shielding the rest of the damage, and you are not landing hits that get dodged or "missed" with cloak. Add in more time lost for breaking CC or dodging or even blocking a CC.

But a real player will also apply actual damage in a 1v1, and if the player is even a little decent, some of that damage will make it through the shields. Your mutagen and surge get overcome very quickly in practice. Yes, resto ult is also an option, but at that point you are sacrificing offensive burst which you NEED to kill some of the players pressuring with this set. Miat's and similar addons make dodging frag burst a joke.

Look, I understood that this topic would be unpopular because sorcs are just so OP, and thus people think it's fair or their right to bypass shields with oblivion damage. Hell in zone chat I'll see complaints that 5+ people couldn't kill this one magsorc then subsequently wiped to him, then some random 300CP AR16 stamblade and I go in and kill him within a minute or two. But we can't call that an L2P issue or we trigger someone else.

Let me propose some 5 piece sets to give you an idea of why shieldbreaker is basically broken powerful.

Dodgebreaker: If your enemy dodges your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).
Guardbreaker: If your enemy blocks your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).

I mean what's the problem? If you don't dodge or block the light attacks then you won't take any damage from the set... Oh wait, that's your primary method of mitigating damage? Too bad, that guy in the back is wearing a 5 piece set.

Dodge has plenty of counters in the game right now, no need to equip a set for that.

Shields can't be crit, CPs are front loaded. Don't put 100 points into Precise Strikes, but split them between Shattering Blows and Precise. All of a sudden EVERYTHING you do counters shields.

There is no anti-dodge CP. That's the reasoning behind non-dodgable skills. It's up to you to decide if that's a sufficient reasoning.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · September 2017

Lord-Otto wrote: »

There is no anti-dodge CP. That's the reasoning behind non-dodgable skills. It's up to you to decide if that's a sufficient reasoning.

I would love if they removed a more useless CP star and added one that reduces AoE damage during a dodge roll.

Derra · September 2017

Pastas wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Is there really groups out in cyro running shield breaker?

Yes, you know those AD stamblade groups? I've encountered the same groups and players for months now. At least 4 of them are now primarily running shield breaker (good stamblades, not ones that just roll over and die when you look at them), or at the very least slot it when they see me coming (yeah kudos for planning ahead).

Kram8ion wrote: »

Groups in shield breaker sounds hilarious but unlikely

Come talk to me when you encounter 2 grand overlord, permadodge, shade porting, cloaking stamblades each running shieldbreaker, and running with a magDK for lockdown and dot pressure.

Oh, or my personal favorite. A pack of 6 Werewolves and one or two of them were wearing shieldbreaker.

castorein wrote: »

How to avoid shieldbreaker proc damage:
Dont spam cast your shields-> no shield means no proc damage

Oh? Don't cast shields? Wow, why didn't I think of that? Oh right, because a NB running shieldbreaker can still land an 8k incap.

@DocFrost72 For the suggestion to run mutagen and critsurge to counter shieldbreaker, I want to point out that you have to be actively dealing damage and landing hits for surge to proc. You are not attacking while shielding the rest of the damage, and you are not landing hits that get dodged or "missed" with cloak. Add in more time lost for breaking CC or dodging or even blocking a CC.

But a real player will also apply actual damage in a 1v1, and if the player is even a little decent, some of that damage will make it through the shields. Your mutagen and surge get overcome very quickly in practice. Yes, resto ult is also an option, but at that point you are sacrificing offensive burst which you NEED to kill some of the players pressuring with this set. Miat's and similar addons make dodging frag burst a joke.

Look, I understood that this topic would be unpopular because sorcs are just so OP, and thus people think it's fair or their right to bypass shields with oblivion damage. Hell in zone chat I'll see complaints that 5+ people couldn't kill this one magsorc then subsequently wiped to him, then some random 300CP AR16 stamblade and I go in and kill him within a minute or two. But we can't call that an L2P issue or we trigger someone else.

Let me propose some 5 piece sets to give you an idea of why shieldbreaker is basically broken powerful.

Dodgebreaker: If your enemy dodges your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).
Guardbreaker: If your enemy blocks your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).

I mean what's the problem? If you don't dodge or block the light attacks then you won't take any damage from the set... Oh wait, that's your primary method of mitigating damage? Too bad, that guy in the back is wearing a 5 piece set.

Dodge has plenty of counters in the game right now, no need to equip a set for that.

Strawman argument. Not all dodge counters are accessible for everyone nor can most of them be spammed at will.

There is no comparable situation ingame to the relationship of sorc to shieldbreaker. It hardcounters the class in magica specs unless the sorc runs a petbuild.

DocFrost72 · September 2017

Derra wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Is there really groups out in cyro running shield breaker?

Yes, you know those AD stamblade groups? I've encountered the same groups and players for months now. At least 4 of them are now primarily running shield breaker (good stamblades, not ones that just roll over and die when you look at them), or at the very least slot it when they see me coming (yeah kudos for planning ahead).

Kram8ion wrote: »

Groups in shield breaker sounds hilarious but unlikely

Come talk to me when you encounter 2 grand overlord, permadodge, shade porting, cloaking stamblades each running shieldbreaker, and running with a magDK for lockdown and dot pressure.

Oh, or my personal favorite. A pack of 6 Werewolves and one or two of them were wearing shieldbreaker.

castorein wrote: »

How to avoid shieldbreaker proc damage:
Dont spam cast your shields-> no shield means no proc damage

Oh? Don't cast shields? Wow, why didn't I think of that? Oh right, because a NB running shieldbreaker can still land an 8k incap.

@DocFrost72 For the suggestion to run mutagen and critsurge to counter shieldbreaker, I want to point out that you have to be actively dealing damage and landing hits for surge to proc. You are not attacking while shielding the rest of the damage, and you are not landing hits that get dodged or "missed" with cloak. Add in more time lost for breaking CC or dodging or even blocking a CC.

But a real player will also apply actual damage in a 1v1, and if the player is even a little decent, some of that damage will make it through the shields. Your mutagen and surge get overcome very quickly in practice. Yes, resto ult is also an option, but at that point you are sacrificing offensive burst which you NEED to kill some of the players pressuring with this set. Miat's and similar addons make dodging frag burst a joke.

Look, I understood that this topic would be unpopular because sorcs are just so OP, and thus people think it's fair or their right to bypass shields with oblivion damage. Hell in zone chat I'll see complaints that 5+ people couldn't kill this one magsorc then subsequently wiped to him, then some random 300CP AR16 stamblade and I go in and kill him within a minute or two. But we can't call that an L2P issue or we trigger someone else.

Let me propose some 5 piece sets to give you an idea of why shieldbreaker is basically broken powerful.

Dodgebreaker: If your enemy dodges your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).
Guardbreaker: If your enemy blocks your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).

I mean what's the problem? If you don't dodge or block the light attacks then you won't take any damage from the set... Oh wait, that's your primary method of mitigating damage? Too bad, that guy in the back is wearing a 5 piece set.

Dodge has plenty of counters in the game right now, no need to equip a set for that.

Strawman argument. Not all dodge counters are accessible for everyone nor can most of them be spammed at will.

There is no comparable situation ingame to the relationship of sorc to shieldbreaker. It hardcounters the class in magica specs unless the sorc runs a petbuild.

Detect pot and NB.

Biro123 · September 2017

Derra wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

EdmundTowers wrote: »

Is there really groups out in cyro running shield breaker?

Yes, you know those AD stamblade groups? I've encountered the same groups and players for months now. At least 4 of them are now primarily running shield breaker (good stamblades, not ones that just roll over and die when you look at them), or at the very least slot it when they see me coming (yeah kudos for planning ahead).

Kram8ion wrote: »

Groups in shield breaker sounds hilarious but unlikely

Come talk to me when you encounter 2 grand overlord, permadodge, shade porting, cloaking stamblades each running shieldbreaker, and running with a magDK for lockdown and dot pressure.

Oh, or my personal favorite. A pack of 6 Werewolves and one or two of them were wearing shieldbreaker.

castorein wrote: »

How to avoid shieldbreaker proc damage:
Dont spam cast your shields-> no shield means no proc damage

Oh? Don't cast shields? Wow, why didn't I think of that? Oh right, because a NB running shieldbreaker can still land an 8k incap.

@DocFrost72 For the suggestion to run mutagen and critsurge to counter shieldbreaker, I want to point out that you have to be actively dealing damage and landing hits for surge to proc. You are not attacking while shielding the rest of the damage, and you are not landing hits that get dodged or "missed" with cloak. Add in more time lost for breaking CC or dodging or even blocking a CC.

But a real player will also apply actual damage in a 1v1, and if the player is even a little decent, some of that damage will make it through the shields. Your mutagen and surge get overcome very quickly in practice. Yes, resto ult is also an option, but at that point you are sacrificing offensive burst which you NEED to kill some of the players pressuring with this set. Miat's and similar addons make dodging frag burst a joke.

Look, I understood that this topic would be unpopular because sorcs are just so OP, and thus people think it's fair or their right to bypass shields with oblivion damage. Hell in zone chat I'll see complaints that 5+ people couldn't kill this one magsorc then subsequently wiped to him, then some random 300CP AR16 stamblade and I go in and kill him within a minute or two. But we can't call that an L2P issue or we trigger someone else.

Let me propose some 5 piece sets to give you an idea of why shieldbreaker is basically broken powerful.

Dodgebreaker: If your enemy dodges your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).
Guardbreaker: If your enemy blocks your light or heavy attacks, you deal (inseart shieldbreaker oblivion damage).

I mean what's the problem? If you don't dodge or block the light attacks then you won't take any damage from the set... Oh wait, that's your primary method of mitigating damage? Too bad, that guy in the back is wearing a 5 piece set.

Dodge has plenty of counters in the game right now, no need to equip a set for that.

Strawman argument. Not all dodge counters are accessible for everyone nor can most of them be spammed at will.

There is no comparable situation ingame to the relationship of sorc to shieldbreaker. It hardcounters the class in magica specs unless the sorc runs a petbuild.

Petbuild doesn't really stop it being a hardcounter. You sacrifice mobility for pets so escaping to pull them out of the crowd isn't really workable..
Also any shieldbreaker-user with half a brain would target the pet first - since you don't get that audio-queue that shieldbreaker is around when its the pet getting hit, what you *think* is a safely-shielded pet suddenly becomes 'Where's my pet gone!'
Then you realise that you're now the target of the shieldbreaker-spam and you have no heals, nor mobility...

ofc. I've never actually seen a sheildbreaker user have the sense to do this yet... Says it all, really.

Lord-Otto · September 2017

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

There is no anti-dodge CP. That's the reasoning behind non-dodgable skills. It's up to you to decide if that's a sufficient reasoning.

I would love if they removed a more useless CP star and added one that reduces AoE damage during a dodge roll.

Come on, man, be real. You want a counter-CP to a counter-damage that counters a counter to dodgable attacks? Typing that already gives me a headache, now try tell ZOS how to actually balance that!