Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• [IN PROGRESS] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 8, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
• [IN PROGRESS] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 8, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
Next time you scream elitist.
-
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭CountEdmondDantes wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".
Projection.
People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.
Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.
Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...
This right here. This.
Let me tell you about an experience I had about a month ago running a dungeon. Four person dungeon, three of us were running pre-CP characters and my daughter was the healer. She's got like 500+ CPs. We start, we're having fun, everything's going fine. Joking on Discord. This is what playing an MMO should be, right?
Then one of the others has to drop off - a phone call from a girl. Fine. We give him ten minutes, then we kick him. (It's okay, he knows our rules.) Now we pull in a pug player. Offer him/her discord info but they don't get on. We pick up and move on.
Suddenly, we get a text asking my daughter to slot a skill I frankly have never heard of (but then I don't heal). After this pause, my daughter replies - in text - that she's a Templar and that's not even a Templar skill. Another pause. Then we get: "WTF, no one is running this skill (whatever it was)."
Keep in mind, this person hasn't even died yet. We keep going. Just that experience, with that attitude, has made the dungeon a lot less fun. Now we're just trying to get done. We move through the second boss quickly and another text appears. Now my daughter invites them again to get on Discord so we can explain what's going on. Again, no response.
We start up again, thinking everything's as okay as it's going to get, and here comes another text. Talk about a chair circle moment. We have to stop what we're doing and try to explain to this person why we can't do this thing they want us to do. At this point, my daughter is getting really frustrated, because of the "learn to play" responses we're getting from this person - and she's been on the game since day one.
Going into the final boss, the person drops off. They just quit. Fine. We manage to pull through - thanks to my daughter's healing - and we finish. It's okay. We have that conversation we've had a few dozen times about not using pugs ever again.
To be fair, I've had good experiences with pugs and picked up a few friends that way. But in the past few months the bad experiences have started to outweigh the good. Maybe I've learned enough about the game to realize that some of the advice people give in pug groups is just bad.
To answer the OP's question: it's not elitist to ask for a skill to be slotted. Ask away. You might not get the answer you want, though. And if you don't, try to improvise. (And by the way, building your character is such a way that you constantly need someone else to throw down a skill so you can sustain is probably not the best idea.)
What is elitiest - and annoying as hell - is to not to participate in a group. It's a group. It's not all about you. What can you do to help the group? That may include getting on Discord or TS so we can explain something to you without typing every detail out in chat. I know, the player may be shy, they may not like the sound of their voice, they may be hiding something - whatever - just get on and don't talk. But listen!!! Because that is really annoying.
Okay, rant over. Sorry.
Sorry for your confusion but I lol'd. So no resto staff skills then!?
What about war horn? Not a Templar skill.
Magelight?
Barrier?
Orbs?
There are lots of skills not from your class that you need to run as a matter of course.5 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That's...not exactly how it works. Sure I can and usually do slot Drain for myself when I dps a pug(because healers either ignore questions about one or have no idea what that is and/or no destro staff). I also can and often do slot heals because healer usually doesn't know how to heal so I end up running Twilight in order to keep everyone up(starting with healer). I also can and sometimes do slot taunt because I tend to have better surviveability with 16k health than tanks do with 30-40k because I'm aware of existence of such complicated mechanics as block, dodge and bash whereas they are clearly not. And I still tend to pull like 60-80% dps in most pug groups(that while my actual dps is really mediocre atm) while doing all/half of that. That brings the question of why exactly do I need that rest of the group when I'm doing all of their roles better than they are yet they get offended if I try to offer them advice? This is not called having fun, this is called carrying. It can actually be fun sometimes, sure, but it gets old.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »And this is why you are not a good healer.
Healer has the role, of support in a group, which is why a good healer doesn't only heal.
Before talking avout things that you don't know, think twice.
A DPS shouldn't slot e le drain, that would go against their role in the group which is to do DPS.
If they have the buffs as. A part of the rotation then it's fine
We're talking about a PUG here.
The primary role of a healer is to HEAL.
Before using words you don't know, think twice.
Not everyone likes to play BiS and all optimized, and a healer is perfectly entitled to heal and not play the buffing machine.
The DPS are supposed to be somewhat autonomous (again, in a PUG) and are not entitled to have their numbers pushed by someone else sacrificing his own playstyle.
Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.
Yes, there always is the option to run only with friends. The question is, is the community really better off that way? Inexperienced players(let's call them that) run with inexperienced players, never learn anything, never improve and run into solid wall because there's content they simply cannot complete without adapting - which they both refuse to do and don't know how to do anyway. "Elitists" run with "elitists" and get called names because they don't want randoms in their groups, community gets split into 2 opposite parts with the gap between them ever growing. People pulling 3k dps and people pulling 60k dps. And those at 60k dps are yet working on improving their performance whereas those at 3k feel their performance is just fine but the game is simply too hard. Do you really like this environment? The "no I don't want to change anything for the sake of my group, I think you're a jerk for daring to suggest I do something differently, I will play the way I want, even if it costs our group 4 hours of wiping, and you can burn in hell if you don't like it" one?
Why is this attitude so common on these forums? Why is it always assumed that the person expressing...displeasure at someone's underperformance should be a saint, that it is his job to adapt and overcome, he should slot Drain, heals, taunt, shut up and solo the dungeon for poor little scared pricks who refuse to do as much as slot a single skill or write a single response in group chat? Why isn't it taken into consideration that given we're talking about a group activity perhaps THEY should adapt too?
This post is absolute gold and sums up pugging in ESO in a nutshell.3 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »Why should a healer necessarily slot Ele Drain, if the tank use the most used morph of 1h/s, penetration is assured, and healer can use radiant aura or siphon spirit. On global you'll have the same exact benefits.
You shouldn't neither assume that one skill is mandatory if you don't know what you're talking about.
9/10 out of ten they don't.0 -
CountEdmondDantes✭✭✭✭CountEdmondDantes wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".
Projection.
People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.
Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.
Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...
This right here. This.
Let me tell you about an experience I had about a month ago running a dungeon. Four person dungeon, three of us were running pre-CP characters and my daughter was the healer. She's got like 500+ CPs. We start, we're having fun, everything's going fine. Joking on Discord. This is what playing an MMO should be, right?
Then one of the others has to drop off - a phone call from a girl. Fine. We give him ten minutes, then we kick him. (It's okay, he knows our rules.) Now we pull in a pug player. Offer him/her discord info but they don't get on. We pick up and move on.
Suddenly, we get a text asking my daughter to slot a skill I frankly have never heard of (but then I don't heal). After this pause, my daughter replies - in text - that she's a Templar and that's not even a Templar skill. Another pause. Then we get: "WTF, no one is running this skill (whatever it was)."
Keep in mind, this person hasn't even died yet. We keep going. Just that experience, with that attitude, has made the dungeon a lot less fun. Now we're just trying to get done. We move through the second boss quickly and another text appears. Now my daughter invites them again to get on Discord so we can explain what's going on. Again, no response.
We start up again, thinking everything's as okay as it's going to get, and here comes another text. Talk about a chair circle moment. We have to stop what we're doing and try to explain to this person why we can't do this thing they want us to do. At this point, my daughter is getting really frustrated, because of the "learn to play" responses we're getting from this person - and she's been on the game since day one.
Going into the final boss, the person drops off. They just quit. Fine. We manage to pull through - thanks to my daughter's healing - and we finish. It's okay. We have that conversation we've had a few dozen times about not using pugs ever again.
To be fair, I've had good experiences with pugs and picked up a few friends that way. But in the past few months the bad experiences have started to outweigh the good. Maybe I've learned enough about the game to realize that some of the advice people give in pug groups is just bad.
To answer the OP's question: it's not elitist to ask for a skill to be slotted. Ask away. You might not get the answer you want, though. And if you don't, try to improvise. (And by the way, building your character is such a way that you constantly need someone else to throw down a skill so you can sustain is probably not the best idea.)
What is elitiest - and annoying as hell - is to not to participate in a group. It's a group. It's not all about you. What can you do to help the group? That may include getting on Discord or TS so we can explain something to you without typing every detail out in chat. I know, the player may be shy, they may not like the sound of their voice, they may be hiding something - whatever - just get on and don't talk. But listen!!! Because that is really annoying.
Okay, rant over. Sorry.
Sorry for your confusion but I lol'd. So no resto staff skills then!?
What about war horn? Not a Templar skill.
Magelight?
Barrier?
Orbs?
There are lots of skills not from your class that you need to run as a matter of course.
Sorry for you confusion. If I recall, the player was asking for a Warden skill and my daughter - as I said clearly - was a Templar.
As to your response, I actually have no idea how someone would run a healer without resto staff skills. Obviously, my daughter had a resto staff - and resto staff skills, etc. That said, I'm sure there is someone out there who's tried.
If that's not what you're asking, then I have no idea what your post is about.Edited by CountEdmondDantes on September 2, 2017 7:46PM7 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. OP absolutely IS a bloody, obnoxious elitist.
2. people like OP is why I don't pug. ever. and you might say - good riddance, but every time I see dps complaining about long long quests that refuse to pop? this is why. your insistence on every damn thing being super srs business, must play in this rigid way or you are a burden - THIS is why you have long queues.
and yes I have ele drain leveled up. I also forced myself through pvp to get warhorn and grinded undaunted to get orbs. and all of those things? are reserved for my guildies who are patient and don't demand super peak top of the line performance with a rigid meta build for every. damn. thing. its a group finder pug. DEAL WITH IT.Edited by Linaleah on September 2, 2017 7:49PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***11 -
KochDerDamonen✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's also elitist to ask if everyone's done a fight before, and provide tips/explanations of mechanics.
Or to explain that one needs AoE spells to deal with packs of mobs.
Or to ask if everyone has food/drink (obviously, we know who doesn't because of a buff tracker. Just have to pretend you don't know so there's a better chance you won't get screeched at)
Really, anything short of dead silence or absolute praise is elitism, pls stop being elitist. Those are also elitist if I'm in a bad mood and perceive your silence as intentional, or the praise as sarcastic, by the way.If you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].13 -
Trashkan✭✭✭My favorite kind of healer does 2 things for me that's run the almighty SPC and heal me for days. Nothing else is required but power heals baby!!!!! I'll run that else drain on my dps if it I notice Magika issues.Edited by Trashkan on September 2, 2017 7:59PM1
-
RizaHawkeye✭✭✭✭CountEdmondDantes wrote: »CountEdmondDantes wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".
Projection.
People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.
Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.
Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...
This right here. This.
Let me tell you about an experience I had about a month ago running a dungeon. Four person dungeon, three of us were running pre-CP characters and my daughter was the healer. She's got like 500+ CPs. We start, we're having fun, everything's going fine. Joking on Discord. This is what playing an MMO should be, right?
Then one of the others has to drop off - a phone call from a girl. Fine. We give him ten minutes, then we kick him. (It's okay, he knows our rules.) Now we pull in a pug player. Offer him/her discord info but they don't get on. We pick up and move on.
Suddenly, we get a text asking my daughter to slot a skill I frankly have never heard of (but then I don't heal). After this pause, my daughter replies - in text - that she's a Templar and that's not even a Templar skill. Another pause. Then we get: "WTF, no one is running this skill (whatever it was)."
Keep in mind, this person hasn't even died yet. We keep going. Just that experience, with that attitude, has made the dungeon a lot less fun. Now we're just trying to get done. We move through the second boss quickly and another text appears. Now my daughter invites them again to get on Discord so we can explain what's going on. Again, no response.
We start up again, thinking everything's as okay as it's going to get, and here comes another text. Talk about a chair circle moment. We have to stop what we're doing and try to explain to this person why we can't do this thing they want us to do. At this point, my daughter is getting really frustrated, because of the "learn to play" responses we're getting from this person - and she's been on the game since day one.
Going into the final boss, the person drops off. They just quit. Fine. We manage to pull through - thanks to my daughter's healing - and we finish. It's okay. We have that conversation we've had a few dozen times about not using pugs ever again.
To be fair, I've had good experiences with pugs and picked up a few friends that way. But in the past few months the bad experiences have started to outweigh the good. Maybe I've learned enough about the game to realize that some of the advice people give in pug groups is just bad.
To answer the OP's question: it's not elitist to ask for a skill to be slotted. Ask away. You might not get the answer you want, though. And if you don't, try to improvise. (And by the way, building your character is such a way that you constantly need someone else to throw down a skill so you can sustain is probably not the best idea.)
What is elitiest - and annoying as hell - is to not to participate in a group. It's a group. It's not all about you. What can you do to help the group? That may include getting on Discord or TS so we can explain something to you without typing every detail out in chat. I know, the player may be shy, they may not like the sound of their voice, they may be hiding something - whatever - just get on and don't talk. But listen!!! Because that is really annoying.
Okay, rant over. Sorry.
Sorry for your confusion but I lol'd. So no resto staff skills then!?
What about war horn? Not a Templar skill.
Magelight?
Barrier?
Orbs?
There are lots of skills not from your class that you need to run as a matter of course.
Sorry for you confusion. If I recall, the player was asking for a Warden skill and my daughter - as I said clearly - was a Templar.
As to your response, I actually have no idea how someone would run a healer without resto staff skills. Obviously, my daughter had a resto staff - and resto staff skills, etc. That said, I'm sure there is someone out there who's tried.
If that's not what you're asking, then I have no idea what your post is about.
I remember that group.
Was it CoH? I want to say it was CoH.
Yeah, whoever it was wanted the Warden skill that gives spell crit. Why, I have no idea because there's a lot better ways to get spell crit if you need it. Which we tried to explain to him for 15 f-ing minutes. Truly. And in the end we were like 'just stay close and we'll get you through it.' And that's when we got attitude.
The rules are simple: treat people the way you want to be treated. You want people to treat you like a jerk, then carry on that way. That's why the game has an ignore button.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
The heroes during times of war, are nothing but mass murderers during times of peace.
Riza Hawkeye
Learn to play, or resign to become one of pieces that is meant to be sacrificed.
Meridia5 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Threads that can trigger both elitists and self-proclaimed armchair DPS experts are rare ...6 -
Ruse✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »We're talking about a PUG here.
The primary role of a healer is to HEAL.
Before using words you don't know, think twice.
Not everyone likes to play BiS and all optimized, and a healer is perfectly entitled to heal and not play the buffing machine.
The DPS are supposed to be somewhat autonomous (again, in a PUG) and are not entitled to have their numbers pushed by someone else sacrificing his own playstyle.
Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.
This post puzzles me. It's possible to overheal, which does nothing for the group. It's not really possible to over-DPS. So ... yes, as long as you're not having trouble keeping people alive -- and in most cases you can get through a fight very easily with what, 3 heals? -- why wouldn't you do things to buff the DPS?
I say this as someone who pretty much always plays a healer.1. OP absolutely IS a bloody, obnoxious elitist.
2. people like OP is why I don't pug. ever. and you might say - good riddance, but every time I see dps complaining about long long quests that refuse to pop? this is why. your insistence on every damn thing being super srs business, must play in this rigid way or you are a burden - THIS is why you have long queues.
and yes I have ele drain leveled up. I also forced myself through pvp to get warhorn and grinded undaunted to get orbs. and all of those things? are reserved for my guildies who are patient and don't demand super peak top of the line performance with a rigid meta build for every. damn. thing. its a group finder pug. DEAL WITH IT.
So ... you're so petty that rather than run skills you know will make the run smoother -- skills you have -- you pull the "deal with it" line?
I ... I'm ...
Way to kick my faith in humanity in the jibblies.Travels in Tamriel (screenshots + light RP blog)
_.._.._.._.._.._.._
Jubilee | warden healer | white orc swamp witch
Sarielle | templar healer | Imperial good girl
My Skyrim mods:
Classic | SE14 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No, and far to often players don't learn because its so many high level in dungeons you simply burn everything.KochDerDamonen wrote: »It's also elitist to ask if everyone's done a fight before, and provide tips/explanations of mechanics.
Or to explain that one needs AoE spells to deal with packs of mobs.
Or to ask if everyone has food/drink (obviously, we know who doesn't because of a buff tracker. Just have to pretend you don't know so there's a better chance you won't get screeched at)
Really, anything short of dead silence or absolute praise is elitism, pls stop being elitist. Those are also elitist if I'm in a bad mood and perceive your silence as intentional, or the praise as sarcastic, by the way.
Add that people has different tactics, this tend to be play it safe or burn and ignore ads, latest is an dps check.
Stack on boss inside stupid is another who is an healer check.
AoE should be pretty obvious public dungeons would show you
its easy to have food run out, so its smart to tell, if you don't use addons for it and hide bars by default its easy to miss.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Threads that can trigger both elitists and self-proclaimed armchair DPS experts are rare ...
It's rather heartwarming in a way."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".
Projection.
People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.
Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.
Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...
If all you're doing is purely healing you're not near as effective as you could be. You should be doing both. Elemental drain, combat prayer and warhorn aren't things that "break a rotation" of a healer. They're staples.10 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »We're talking about a PUG here.
The primary role of a healer is to HEAL.
Before using words you don't know, think twice.
Not everyone likes to play BiS and all optimized, and a healer is perfectly entitled to heal and not play the buffing machine.
The DPS are supposed to be somewhat autonomous (again, in a PUG) and are not entitled to have their numbers pushed by someone else sacrificing his own playstyle.
Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.
This post puzzles me. It's possible to overheal, which does nothing for the group. It's not really possible to over-DPS. So ... yes, as long as you're not having trouble keeping people alive -- and in most cases you can get through a fight very easily with what, 3 heals? -- why wouldn't you do things to buff the DPS?
I say this as someone who pretty much always plays a healer.1. OP absolutely IS a bloody, obnoxious elitist.
2. people like OP is why I don't pug. ever. and you might say - good riddance, but every time I see dps complaining about long long quests that refuse to pop? this is why. your insistence on every damn thing being super srs business, must play in this rigid way or you are a burden - THIS is why you have long queues.
and yes I have ele drain leveled up. I also forced myself through pvp to get warhorn and grinded undaunted to get orbs. and all of those things? are reserved for my guildies who are patient and don't demand super peak top of the line performance with a rigid meta build for every. damn. thing. its a group finder pug. DEAL WITH IT.
So ... you're so petty that rather than run skills you know will make the run smoother -- skills you have -- you pull the "deal with it" line?
I ... I'm ...
Way to kick my faith in humanity in the jibblies.
no. I'm so PETTY as I don't pug at all. also. i tend not to run elemental drain normally, as i have a specific build I'm most comfortable healing on - me running skills that are supposed to make it smoother.. won't actualy make it smoother in reality (I leveled Ele drain because it was recommended, I didn't like using it, I stopped), hell I'm about to give up on Orbs and start slotting magelight again, because aiming stupid things at a group that stays in motion, is an exercise in frustration, and the healing they do as they sale past the group that move from the spot they were in 2 seconds ago, is not strong enough to justify using them for that alone. groups i do run with are more interested in group as a whole having fun vs getting the run over with.
in any case. rigid meta builds can go die in a fire. if you are interested in no death speed runs or whatever? DO THEM WITH PLAYERS WHO ARE ALSO INTERESTED IN THEM. stop imposing your rigid demands on random people in groupfinder who come at varying degrees of experience, skill levels, reflexes, and just general aptitude. and no, explaining the mechanics is not elitist, but demanding very rigidly specific builds - IS.
OP literally LITERALLY demanded elemental drain before they even began. adding please doesn't make it any less of a demand.
half the crap I'm reading in this thread, the expectations, the judgmental attitudes, the sneering... no thank you. the only things I owe to the group is to show up on time, not to afk without warning (and hopefully not at all) perform the role I queued up for (which btw, does NOT say buff bot) to the best of MY ability and just be basically courteous. that's. it.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".
Projection.
Ironically the healer not slotting ele drain when it is pivotal to the group's success or the group is requesting it of them I s actually grounds to kick the healer.8 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reading all the entitled healers complain about how we should for some reason be grateful with JUST their healing and appreciate them standing in the dungeon like a freaking statue is the reason I run shields and self heals when I pug.
When it's too hard for you to contribute anything outside of heals then your healing is probably not good enough either.17 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »This is not called having fun, this is called carrying. It can actually be fun sometimes, sure, but it gets old.
Let's make one thing clear here @Magdalina : I don't know you ingame but I've read enough of your posts here to know that you're no elitist, and that you do everything so that people are happy while playing together.
That being said, if you find yourself too often in PUGs carrying other people up to a point that it's no fun anymore, stop pugging. People won't change. Complaining won't change. Offering help and advice, depending on the tone, will help, but only to a certain extent. If it's no fun to you anymore, stop pugging.
Haha well, thanks I guess?
Don't worry, I'm pugging - and generally playing - significantly less lately, mostly just doing housing tbh. The question of whether or not pugs are better off without my advices stays open though
By the way, I do usually ask about Drain because it's vital for me, like many other magicka dps. I'd probably word it something like "<healer>, do you have Ele Drain?", would ask them to slot it if not, then when if they don't have/want it, slot it myself and be silently pissed at the healer. Is it that much nicer than what OP said? Idk, but has it really come to that? To thinking whether or not one's request of a feature vital for your group's success was nice enough to not hurt one's feelings? I mean, I'm all for being nice, but it's a *** group dungeon, to what extent should this "not hurt one's feelings" spread then? Is it rude to ask a tank to slot a taunt? I suppose that could also be seen as being demanding in regards to their preferred playstyle. To ask a healer to slot heals? To ask 12k health person in vet dungeon to eat food? To say that we need more dps after we fail a dps check because group dps is a whopping 10k? Is it also wrong to explain mechanics to them for fear of making them feel new, clueless and useless(which they are when they don't know mechanics)?
I don't agree with this. Perhaps I'm being idealistic but I don't think this is how it is or how it should be at least. Everyone is different and free to enjoy different things, but the real split here isn't casual vs elitist, it's just...let's call it sensible people and non sensible. Sensible people undertstand that when they're participating in a group activity their "play how you want" gets pitted against 3(or 11) other people's "play how you want", therefore some communication and adapting is likely in order. If they happen to be experienced players, they will slow down for newbies and try to explain mechanics and stuff to them if it's needed, and possibly they will pull more than just their weight - but that's okay too, long as other people are at least trying. If they're unexperienced, maybe they'll underperform and end up carried, but at the very least they will try to follow advices in order for the group to succeed, even if their preferred playstyle is fishing and it's their first and last dungeon ever.Ideally, I wish there was a way for those two groups to play together, but in practice and after three years "experience" in this game, I've come to the conclusion that it's not possible. The game population is, as a matter of fact, split between players who want to be good, be the best they can, and people who enjoy playing around with fun builds, scenery and flower-picking. And those two groups should not mix. Mixing them in groups doesn't work, mixing them in guilds doesn't work. Playing together doesn't work.
Non sensible people are those that drop group/kick people at being told/asked to change something for their group's sake, the wannabe elitists that call people names for doing a vet dungeon at <160 cp, the tanks that tell you to mind your own business when politely asked to not run all the mobs out of all the aoes, the people who'd rather die 57 times in a row than bash a boss/close a pinion after being explained the mechanics 56 times, the 3k dps that trash talk you for offering advice...the list goes on but I'm sure you get the idea. They can be so called "elite" or so called "casuals", the problem isn't their "leetness" or lack of one, it's the "me, me, only me and MY way" attitude.
This is a people issue but it's also an ESO and Zenimax issue because currently they're doing everything in their power to ENCOURAGE this attitude. We did not have THAT a huge gap between players back at launch/Craglorn days, and there were more ways to cross the gap that we did have. More importantly, underperforming players were at least aware of them underperforming usually and as such were less opposed to constructive suggestions. Now...They've sped up leveling, removed all traces of learning curve from base game itself, did everything they could to hide information about how things work and conceal one's imperfections as a player, yet left/added content that is not doable without knowledge on how it all works. I'm not sure if they're deliberately trying to ruin their game or they really are blind enough to not see the issue(s) this all is causing.
9 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »I literally said "Can healer use ele drain on boss fights pls" EXACT words and was kicked. Not a single mob was killed yet. However sure. Meh.
If that's the exact wording, and you hadn't even started the dungeon yet, then sorry but I can understand why they kicked you.
Why not wait and see first what's available, how people play ?
If they were newbies or insecure in any way, your demand was very likely to scare them.
Also, someone starting that way is likely to demand and complain during the whole dungeon.
If you want an optimized group, don't PUG.
Also, if instead of kicking you, they would have politely answered "no, I prefer to keep my bars as they are", what would you have done ?
Max pen, smoother run, faster run.
Scare them? Asking to use a skill?...
Assuming again.
You idea of optimised is someone using a single skill that was asked for?
If they said that I would of laughed irl.
If a tank does not taunt is he just "not optimised"?
If a healer just heals and does not buff and does not dps are they just "not optimised"?
If a dps just light attacks are they just "not optimised"?
Dont worry I will show myself the elitist door for asking someone to use a SINGLE skill lol..
You forget this is the year of 2017. You are not allowed to help others. If you do, you may be up on the chopping block. And if you are DPS.... I really feel for you.
Best option is to not PUG. Leave the randoms forever wondering why they can't even clear normal DLC dungeons. If you do PUG, don't queue as DPS. Have healer set/load out for magicka based characters, and tank set/load out for your stamina based characters. This way if things are looking somewhat edgy at first trash pull, you can book and be back in that dungeon in 15 to 20 mins rather then 2 hours.2 -
Zagnut123Zagnut123✭✭✭✭Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".
Projection.
People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.
Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.
Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...
Your a bad healer
You are not in the position to decide whether another player is good or bad at its roll, especially on the forum.
Not willing to accommodate for your teams success will make you bad at any and all roles they try. If they really want to have such an attitude it's ok but they will only progress to a certain point in the game. Wich is struggling to complete 4man content.5 -
Dantaria✭✭✭✭✭PWAHAHAHAHA
You know, the irony in all this is honestly overwhelming.
Because all of you, guys, forget one single thing: nor "elitists", nor actual elite truly require Ele Drain. Actually, nor elitists, nor actual elite truly require healer in dungeon. It's just more convenient.
You refuse to slot Ele Drain? Pffffff. My cookie-cutter HA petsorc build makes me completely autonomous. Don't even for a second think that I will slot Ele Drain myself. With my DPS being 30k+ self-buffed I simply don't need to: everything will die before I will feel any sustain issues. And if tank has Ransack, so I underpenetrate for 5k... Who cares? Okay, my DPS will in absolute worst case scenario be ~25k. Pffff. Still enough.
But ohhhhh, does this takes me back. Back to the time when I wasn't any good, back to the time when I learned, was low-cp and honestly struggled with resources in Homestead. Oh yes, I did ask for Ele Drain back then. And being refused s**ked.
So do remember. All of you with this attitude:
do not actually hurt us. You do not hurt end-game players. You hurt people just like you.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.
You hurt low-cps, who honestly can't sustain on their own in Morrowind. You hurt people with casual builds. You hurt people with suboptimal race, suboptimal gear, suboptimal bar setups - you hurt those who also "doesn't want to sacrifice their playstyle".
End-game players? Please. We solo these dungeons. Do you honestly believe your petty refusal to listen to advice from experienced players will make any difference for us?
No. But for people exactly like you - it would. And isn't that ridiculously ironic?English isn't my native, apologies for any mistakes.19 -
Ruse✭✭✭no. I'm so PETTY as I don't pug at all.
That's ... exactly opposite what you said previously, but OK. I do share your frustration with orbs, though I think I'm getting a little better at aiming them.
It's not so much about meta, or rigidity, or performing perfectly or whatever imo (I certainly don't). It's about having a modicum of respect for other people's time and about being a good team player. Not doing some incredibly simple things that increase group efficiency? That's being a bad team player. The "rigid" people are generally more respectful of other people's time than the "play how you want" crowd.
I have some builds I derp around on that aren't efficient but I just have fun with them. But I do that on my own time, not when I'm with others and can run something better. /2 coppers
By the way, using the word "literally" doesn't actual make something so. The OP didn't demand anything at all, he "literally" requested, lol.Travels in Tamriel (screenshots + light RP blog)
_.._.._.._.._.._.._
Jubilee | warden healer | white orc swamp witch
Sarielle | templar healer | Imperial good girl
My Skyrim mods:
Classic | SE3 -
KochDerDamonen✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No, and far to often players don't learn because its so many high level in dungeons you simply burn everything.KochDerDamonen wrote: »It's also elitist to ask if everyone's done a fight before, and provide tips/explanations of mechanics.
Or to explain that one needs AoE spells to deal with packs of mobs.
Or to ask if everyone has food/drink (obviously, we know who doesn't because of a buff tracker. Just have to pretend you don't know so there's a better chance you won't get screeched at)
Really, anything short of dead silence or absolute praise is elitism, pls stop being elitist. Those are also elitist if I'm in a bad mood and perceive your silence as intentional, or the praise as sarcastic, by the way.
Add that people has different tactics, this tend to be play it safe or burn and ignore ads, latest is an dps check.
Stack on boss inside stupid is another who is an healer check.
AoE should be pretty obvious public dungeons would show you
its easy to have food run out, so its smart to tell, if you don't use addons for it and hide bars by default its easy to miss.
@Zaria those were meant to be taken sarcastically ^^
All things I've had people actually get upset at me for in the pastIf you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].0 -
Zagnut123Zagnut123✭✭✭✭PWAHAHAHAHA
You know, the irony in all this is honestly overwhelming.
Because all of you, guys, forget one single thing: nor "elitists", nor actual elite truly require Ele Drain. Actually, nor elitists, nor actual elite truly require healer in dungeon. It's just more convenient.
You refuse to slot Ele Drain? Pffffff. My cookie-cutter HA petsorc build makes me completely autonomous. Don't even for a second think that I will slot Ele Drain myself. With my DPS being 30k+ self-buffed I simply don't need to: everything will die before I will feel any sustain issues. And if tank has Ransack, so I underpenetrate for 5k... Who cares? Okay, my DPS will in absolute worst case scenario be ~25k. Pffff. Still enough.
But ohhhhh, does this takes me back. Back to the time when I wasn't any good, back to the time when I learned, was low-cp and honestly struggled with resources in Homestead. Oh yes, I did ask for Ele Drain back then. And being refused s**ked.
So do remember. All of you with this attitude:
do not actually hurt us. You do not hurt end-game players. You hurt people just like you.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.
You hurt low-cps, who honestly can't sustain on their own in Morrowind. You hurt people with casual builds. You hurt people with suboptimal race, suboptimal gear, suboptimal bar setups - you hurt those who also "doesn't want to sacrifice their playstyle".
End-game players? Please. We solo these dungeons. Do you honestly believe your petty refusal to listen to advice from experienced players will make any difference for us?
No. But for people exactly like you - it would. And isn't that ridiculously ironic?
Better then I could have said it. Agree 100 percent.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".
Projection.
Next time I would ask them in a whisper. That way it doesn't put them on the spot so there is less of a risk of this happening.
Edited by Jeremy on September 3, 2017 12:39AM1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".
Projection.
People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.
Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.
Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...
Healers *should* be running ele drain, not DPS... you guys arguing that people should set bars up how they want is fine, but if you're playing a healer your role is to SUPPORT your teammates, by not only healing but helping them to sustain, kill things and buff them up, not just give them heals.. and if you DON'T want to do those things, then don't be a support role and go be a DPS and let someone else who actually can do a decent job heal.. don't let the rest of your team down just because you don't want to be an optimal support role.
5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭S1L3NTL4DY420 wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".
Projection.
People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.
Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.
Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...
Healers *should* be running ele drain, not DPS... you guys arguing that people should set bars up how they want is fine, but if you're playing a healer your role is to SUPPORT your teammates, by not only healing but helping them to sustain, kill things and buff them up, not just give them heals.. and if you DON'T want to do those things, then don't be a support role and go be a DPS and let someone else who actually can do a decent job heal.. don't let the rest of your team down just because you don't want to be an optimal support role.
I disagree. A healer's job is to heal. Elemental Drain is optional - and there are plenty of effective builds out there that don't use it.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭S1L3NTL4DY420 wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".
Projection.
People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.
Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.
Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...
Healers *should* be running ele drain, not DPS... you guys arguing that people should set bars up how they want is fine, but if you're playing a healer your role is to SUPPORT your teammates, by not only healing but helping them to sustain, kill things and buff them up, not just give them heals.. and if you DON'T want to do those things, then don't be a support role and go be a DPS and let someone else who actually can do a decent job heal.. don't let the rest of your team down just because you don't want to be an optimal support role.
I disagree. A healer's job is to heal. Elemental Drain is optional - and there are plenty of effective builds out there that don't use it.
A healer's job is absolutely not just to heal.
If that's all you're doing, you aren't providing much value to the group.Edited by MLGProPlayer on September 3, 2017 1:10AM12
This discussion has been closed.