Next time you scream elitist.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Destruent wrote: »

Tbh if you join a GROUP, you should be prepared to play as a group...not as a single-player...but i guess this opinion identifies me as an evil elitist

Elitist, please leave by the elitist door with your mouth closed. Thank you.

*Edit just in case* - That was a joke

anitajoneb17_ESO

Magdalina wrote: »

This is not called having fun, this is called carrying. It can actually be fun sometimes, sure, but it gets old.

Let's make one thing clear here @Magdalina : I don't know you ingame but I've read enough of your posts here to know that you're no elitist, and that you do everything so that people are happy while playing together.

That being said, if you find yourself too often in PUGs carrying other people up to a point that it's no fun anymore, stop pugging. People won't change. Complaining won't change. Offering help and advice, depending on the tone, will help, but only to a certain extent. If it's no fun to you anymore, stop pugging.

Magdalina wrote: »

Yes, there always is the option to run only with friends. The question is, is the community really better off that way?

Ideally, I wish there was a way for those two groups to play together, but in practice and after three years "experience" in this game, I've come to the conclusion that it's not possible. The game population is, as a matter of fact, split between players who want to be good, be the best they can, and people who enjoy playing around with fun builds, scenery and flower-picking. And those two groups should not mix. Mixing them in groups doesn't work, mixing them in guilds doesn't work. Playing together doesn't work.

Don't worry, players who want to get good always find their way to people like you to help them getting good.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

This is not called having fun, this is called carrying. It can actually be fun sometimes, sure, but it gets old.

Let's make one thing clear here @Magdalina : I don't know you ingame but I've read enough of your posts here to know that you're no elitist, and that you do everything so that people are happy while playing together.

That being said, if you find yourself too often in PUGs carrying other people up to a point that it's no fun anymore, stop pugging. People won't change. Complaining won't change. Offering help and advice, depending on the tone, will help, but only to a certain extent. If it's no fun to you anymore, stop pugging.

Magdalina wrote: »

Yes, there always is the option to run only with friends. The question is, is the community really better off that way?

Ideally, I wish there was a way for those two groups to play together, but in practice and after three years "experience" in this game, I've come to the conclusion that it's not possible. The game population is, as a matter of fact, split between players who want to be good, be the best they can, and people who enjoy playing around with fun builds, scenery and flower-picking. And those two groups should not mix. Mixing them in groups doesn't work, mixing them in guilds doesn't work. Playing together doesn't work.

Don't worry, players who want to get good always find their way to people like you to help them getting good.

Thats funny, before you said its understandable to kick someone for asking a healer to use ele drain before starting the dungeon.. even if they say please.

Yet now its ok to offer advice if you are nice which I assume includes asking someone to use a skill if you say pls.

Hmm.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Thats funny, before you said its understandable to kick someone for asking a healer to use ele drain before starting the dungeon.. even if they say please.

Yet now its ok to offer advice if you are nice which I assume includes asking someone to use a skill if you say pls.

Hmm.

The problem here is that you are convinced that you asked nicely, you quoted your own sentence word for word, and it doesn't sound nice. It sure isn't agressive, but it's not asked "nicely" either. "Pls" isn't enough to make a demand sound "nice". That's what I said ... "depending on the tone". Well, your tone wasn't nice, or at least not nice enough.

I'm pretty sure @Magdalina wouldn't post "healer use ele drain on each boss pls" even before anyone has started anything...

Luigi_Vampa

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Thats funny, before you said its understandable to kick someone for asking a healer to use ele drain before starting the dungeon.. even if they say please.

Yet now its ok to offer advice if you are nice which I assume includes asking someone to use a skill if you say pls.

Hmm.

The problem here is that you are convinced that you asked nicely, you quoted your own sentence word for word, and it doesn't sound nice. It sure isn't agressive, but it's not asked "nicely" either. "Pls" isn't enough to make a demand sound "nice". That's what I said ... "depending on the tone". Well, your tone wasn't nice, or at least not nice enough.

I'm pretty sure @Magdalina wouldn't post "healer use ele drain on each boss pls" even before anyone has started anything...

How much nicer could it have gotten?

"Healer, if you don't mind and I wouldn't ever dream of imposing and it is okay if you can't but is there any way of perhaps, maybe, if it isn't a bother slotting elemental drain. I aplogize and will willingly leave the group if I have offended you in any possible way."

What world do we live in where people can't take suggestions or advice or requests without getting upset?

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

Why should a healer necessarily slot Ele Drain, if the tank use the most used morph of 1h/s, penetration is assured, and healer can use radiant aura or siphon spirit. On global you'll have the same exact benefits.
You shouldn't neither assume that one skill is mandatory if you don't know what you're talking about.

Destruent

jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »

Why should a healer necessarily slot Ele Drain, if the tank use the most used morph of 1h/s, penetration is assured, and healer can use radiant aura or siphon spirit. On global you'll have the same exact benefits.
You shouldn't neither assume that one skill is mandatory if you don't know what you're talking about.

If this was the case, the healer could just have explained it...but seems like he doesn't...

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

I've asked for the same thing in PUG runs and usually there is no response. Sometimes I ask "Does anyone have Elemental Drain slotted?". So far of the five or so times I have asked I've had zero responses. My guess these days is a lot of players have no idea what Elemental Drain is so they don't want to be embarrassed.

Another thing I always ask is if anyone has the quest. Very rarely do I get a single response. Maybe they just don't look at Group Chat? IDK.

LadyNalcarya

Magdalina wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

And this is why you are not a good healer.
Healer has the role, of support in a group, which is why a good healer doesn't only heal.
Before talking avout things that you don't know, think twice.

A DPS shouldn't slot e le drain, that would go against their role in the group which is to do DPS.
If they have the buffs as. A part of the rotation then it's fine

We're talking about a PUG here.
The primary role of a healer is to HEAL.
Before using words you don't know, think twice.

Not everyone likes to play BiS and all optimized, and a healer is perfectly entitled to heal and not play the buffing machine.
The DPS are supposed to be somewhat autonomous (again, in a PUG) and are not entitled to have their numbers pushed by someone else sacrificing his own playstyle.

Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.

That's...not exactly how it works. Sure I can and usually do slot Drain for myself when I dps a pug(because healers either ignore questions about one or have no idea what that is and/or no destro staff). I also can and often do slot heals because healer usually doesn't know how to heal so I end up running Twilight in order to keep everyone up(starting with healer). I also can and sometimes do slot taunt because I tend to have better surviveability with 16k health than tanks do with 30-40k because I'm aware of existence of such complicated mechanics as block, dodge and bash whereas they are clearly not. And I still tend to pull like 60-80% dps in most pug groups(that while my actual dps is really mediocre atm) while doing all/half of that. That brings the question of why exactly do I need that rest of the group when I'm doing all of their roles better than they are yet they get offended if I try to offer them advice? This is not called having fun, this is called carrying. It can actually be fun sometimes, sure, but it gets old.

Yes, there always is the option to run only with friends. The question is, is the community really better off that way? Inexperienced players(let's call them that) run with inexperienced players, never learn anything, never improve and run into solid wall because there's content they simply cannot complete without adapting - which they both refuse to do and don't know how to do anyway. "Elitists" run with "elitists" and get called names because they don't want randoms in their groups, community gets split into 2 opposite parts with the gap between them ever growing. People pulling 3k dps and people pulling 60k dps. And those at 60k dps are yet working on improving their performance whereas those at 3k feel their performance is just fine but the game is simply too hard. Do you really like this environment? The "no I don't want to change anything for the sake of my group, I think you're a jerk for daring to suggest I do something differently, I will play the way I want, even if it costs our group 4 hours of wiping, and you can burn in hell if you don't like it" one?

Why is this attitude so common on these forums? Why is it always assumed that the person expressing...displeasure at someone's underperformance should be a saint, that it is his job to adapt and overcome, he should slot Drain, heals, taunt, shut up and solo the dungeon for poor little scared pricks who refuse to do as much as slot a single skill or write a single response in group chat? Why isn't it taken into consideration that given we're talking about a group activity perhaps THEY should adapt too?

Absolutely agree.
Helping new players can be fun, if theyre willing to listen. I occassionaly help them with dlc dungeons and other stuff like this... I just try to explain the mechanics, build options etc. So the next time they are in that dungeon, they will know what to do and wont get stuck.
Sure, I could just carry, but the thing is, they will learn nothing about dungeon mechanics this way and will get stuck next time (since not every pug group can carry them). In the long run, "shut up and survive on your own, I wont do anything for you" mentality wont help anyone. And honestly... If someone doesnt want to be a team player, it would be better for everyone if they'd just stick to solo questing. This way no one will ask them to slot ele.

squinquargesimus

Nerevar didn't die for this >:C

And anyway there's a difference between kowtowing, giving a friendly suggestion and coming off as condescending and demanding. "Can the healer use ele drain on each boss pls" sounds much more like the last than the second one, especially when it's right at the start before you even started. I'd be annoyed too and I do use ele drain (and so might the healer in question! We will never know I suppose.) though I'd just give an annoyed answer rather than kick. (But who knows, one of the other people might be inclined to at least initiate one.)

In any case you weren't even asking nicely or waiting to see if your healer needed any tips on how to play their role so I don't think you really have a leg to stand on in saying you weren't being ~elitist lol

anitajoneb17_ESO

Destruent wrote: »

If this was the case, the healer could just have explained it...but seems like he doesn't...

Why would the healer have to justify anything ? Why not run the dungeons and make suggestion ONLY if the DPS seems too low and the group is wiping ? More than the tone, it's more the timing of the demand that makes it sound not that nice...

Destruent

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

If this was the case, the healer could just have explained it...but seems like he doesn't...

Why would the healer have to justify anything ? Why not run the dungeons and make suggestion ONLY if the DPS seems too low and the group is wiping ? More than the tone, it's more the timing of the demand that makes it sound not that nice...

if someone asks for ele-drain and he deosn't want to slot it bc he has radiant aura, i don't get why he isn't explaining it? i know it's more or less common to not write anything in random-groups (atleast it seems that way for me), but how is that ok in any way? if you enter a room you say hello, if someone asks you anything you reply to it and so on...if not you will most likely get called out for it in RL. Why is it more or less accepted in a game? i don't get it...

edit: and this doesn't has to do anything with elitist etc. it's just about being polite/nice to your groupmembers, nothing else
regarding ele-drain: if i need ele-drain why should i not ask for it? if the healer does not use it, i could slot it myself...but that's an information i need pre-fight...not hard to understand i guess.

Mureel

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.

Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.

Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...

Yeah but: it's fast and easy as to cast, then slam lightning elemental blockade down and boop! Elemental blockade cost covered by Ele drain xD

I run lightning destro with shock enchant on my back bar.

It's mah preshus.

Mureel

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

I literally said "Can healer use ele drain on boss fights pls" EXACT words and was kicked. Not a single mob was killed yet. However sure. Meh.

If that's the exact wording, and you hadn't even started the dungeon yet, then sorry but I can understand why they kicked you.
Why not wait and see first what's available, how people play ?
If they were newbies or insecure in any way, your demand was very likely to scare them.
Also, someone starting that way is likely to demand and complain during the whole dungeon.
If you want an optimized group, don't PUG.

Also, if instead of kicking you, they would have politely answered "no, I prefer to keep my bars as they are", what would you have done ?

Yeah but really it's just plain ignorant to not use ele drain. There's no logical reason not to.

Speaking as a healer.

DarkAedin

ValkynSketha wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Aren't there other ways to get mag steal and breach though? I mean, isn't that skill a little overrated?

It is a free cost skill man

Puncture and restoring aura which are run anyway. So its completely useless to run this in most scenarios

tommalmm

Feanor wrote: »

If the healer doesn't see the merit of running Ele Drain by himself his healing probably good anyway

Why? I prefer restoring aura to ele drain any time of the day (I do use ele drain on a sorc, though). Mostly because it's aoe. It applies minor magicka steal just as ele drain and it aggroes whatever wasn't taunted by tank, giving DDs more comfortable working environment. It lacks the major breach, but penetration is tank's role. So if the tank is using ransack (there is really no reason to do it outside of PVP), then kick the bloody tank.

I usually ignore requests to slot ele drain. I get a hunch that most players that ask about it have no idea there are at least two other ways to apply minor magicka steal.

As DD, when there is no major breach (but there still is minor magicka steal applied), I always ask tank as to why s/he doesn't use the proper morph. ~1k resistance is nothing when you're already at the cap or near it.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Destruent wrote: »

if you enter a room you say hello, if someone asks you anything you reply to it and so on...if not you will most likely get called out for it in RL. Why is it more or less accepted in a game? i don't get it...

IRL works exactly the same way. Let's imagine a person A who happens to randomly be the same team as person B for a common task.

Common courtesy :
Person A : Hello
Person B : Hi, nice to meet you.
Person A : let's start

Discourteous :
Person A : What's that strange hair colour of yours ?
Person B : .....

Appropriate :
Person A : How do we get organized ? Could you do that part and I take care of the other part ?
Person B : OK let's try it this way

Inappropriate :
Person A : You do this, I do the rest
Person B : (is legitimately offended and leaves)

IT seems to me that real life is far more polite and courteous than ingame life, and that hardcore gamers (unlike casuals) tend to forget their manners more often than not.

Destruent wrote: »

edit: and this doesn't has to do anything with elitist etc. it's just about being polite/nice to your groupmembers, nothing else
regarding ele-drain: if i need ele-drain why should i not ask for it? if the healer does not use it, i could slot it myself...but that's an information i need pre-fight...not hard to understand i guess.

OP didn't ask the healer IF he would apply ele drain. He asked (demanded) him to.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

A lot of people here saying they know what I said and ignoring what I said lol.

LadyNalcarya

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

He asked (demanded) him to.

Then this healer shouldnt ask (demand) him to do dps. Or to avoid red circles and oneshots.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

A lot of people here saying they know what I said and ignoring what I said lol.

Youre an "elitist", for some people here this very word is like a red cloth for a bull...
I saw one guy who came to a theorycrafting math thread with "elitism" accusations, so yeah.

anitajoneb17_ESO

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

He asked (demanded) him to.

Then this healer shouldnt ask (demand) him to do dps. Or to avoid red circles and oneshots.

As far as we know this healer didn't say nor ask nor demand anything.

LadyNalcarya

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

He asked (demanded) him to.

Then this healer shouldnt ask (demand) him to do dps. Or to avoid red circles and oneshots.

As far as we know this healer didn't say nor ask nor demand anything.

Yet he kicked OP for simply asking.

technohic

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.

Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.

Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...

Just out of curiosity; What exactly are you running to only heal people to where you couldn't fit an ele-draing?

I don't care either way, TBH; just trying to figure out if the focus of healing, do you have 10 slots of heals?

anitajoneb17_ESO

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Yet he kicked OP for simply asking.

I'll refer you to what @witchdoctor said, in order to stop running around in circles here.

witchdoctor

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

He asked (demanded) him to.

Then this healer shouldnt ask (demand) him to do dps. Or to avoid red circles and oneshots.

As far as we know this healer didn't say nor ask nor demand anything.

Yet he kicked OP for simply asking.

No. A *majority* kicked him for 'simply asking.' OP zoned in, 'asked,' and the majority showed him the door.

This isn't an elitist issue. This is a social graces issue.

LadyNalcarya

witchdoctor wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

He asked (demanded) him to.

Then this healer shouldnt ask (demand) him to do dps. Or to avoid red circles and oneshots.

As far as we know this healer didn't say nor ask nor demand anything.

Yet he kicked OP for simply asking.

No. A *majority* kicked him for 'simply asking.' OP zoned in, 'asked,' and the majority showed him the door.

This isn't an elitist issue. This is a social graces issue.

This majority often kicks pre-vets from normal dungeons. Or doesnt want to follow the mechanics and cooperate.
This is a social grace issue, but I doubt it was coming from OP...
My main is a healer and dont see any issues in asking for specific support set and skill. When I join semi-pug trials, I'm always asked if I can wear X set or something... Thats pretty normal, and no one gets offended. If someone doesnt have the set of skill morph (like power of the light for example), they just say they cant.

EvilCroc

Asking for different skills is offensive behavior. It implies that you dispute ability of another player to run good build.

SoLooney

lol all this butt hurt and salt over how useful ele drain is in a pug dungeon. if people havent realized yet, sharpened has been nerfed bad, not too many people running sharp weapons in dungeons, they usually get the lover mundus or speccing into cp.

having ele drain on bosses would only help the mag dps in the group. faster kills, better resource management aka finish the dungeon quicker.
and no, a healers job is not only to heal, youre performing bare minimum which is ok in a pug setting, but healers buff with abilities like combat prayer, spell power cure, worm etc etc, only helps the dps kill stuff quicker, win win situation. dont know why you wouldnt as a healer

witchdoctor

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

... This is a social grace issue, but I doubt it was coming from OP...

Well, we will never know. If we get into opinion, mine is different than your's, but that's just opinion.

I am very sure the discussion went further than what the OP has said.

Myyth

From what ive read ele drain is useless in groups

the slot could be used for a much more usefull skill

Destruent

IT seems to me that real life is far more polite and courteous than ingame life, and that hardcore gamers (unlike casuals) tend to forget their manners more often than not.

Destruent wrote: »

edit: and this doesn't has to do anything with elitist etc. it's just about being polite/nice to your groupmembers, nothing else
regarding ele-drain: if i need ele-drain why should i not ask for it? if the healer does not use it, i could slot it myself...but that's an information i need pre-fight...not hard to understand i guess.

OP didn't ask the healer IF he would apply ele drain. He asked (demanded) him to.

TBH when running with more progress-minded people (even if i don't know them) it usually never happened that noone replies in chat...when pugging it's more or less common...