Next time you scream elitist.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

OutLaw_Nynx

Ok

Zypheran

Hmm... was it a normal dungeon or a vet? If it was the latter then I don't see anything wrong with asking to fit ele-drain. If it was a normal dungeon and people weren't struggling....

Marabornwingrion

That's why I have ele drain slotted on my magblade DD when I pug dungeons

Teridaxus

Elitist

waitwhat

Aren't there other ways to get mag steal and breach though? I mean, isn't that skill a little overrated?

UncleRiot

In my eyes, it doesnt realy matter if you use it in vet dungeons or not.
Nice to have/use, but not so important.

There are allways folks that like to form a chair circle about everything...

waitwhat

Also is it elitist to ask people to get in voice chat so you can explain the mechanics of Na Kesh?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.

Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.

Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...

ValkynSketha

waitwhat wrote: »

Aren't there other ways to get mag steal and breach though? I mean, isn't that skill a little overrated?

It is a free cost skill man

Bombashaman

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

Never!

strikeback1247

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.

Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.

Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...

We are not discussing the usefulness of ele drain, what the OP is trying to say is that some people are so sensitive that they will kick you for simply suggesting something that may improve the overall performance. If you can't even take a helpful suggestion, I wonder how you take any constructive criticism in real life.

anitajoneb17_ESO

strikeback1247 wrote: »

We are not discussing the usefulness of ele drain, what the OP is trying to say is that some people are so sensitive that they will kick you for simply suggesting something that may improve the overall performance. If you can't even take a helpful suggestion, I wonder how you take any constructive criticism in real life.

Again, some people always get confused between suggesting, helping, criticizing and commanding.

Also, OP states that he's been kicked for simply asking, and asking nicely. That may be too much. But if the healer had said "no, thank you, I prefer to keep my bars as they are", would he have accepted that answer ?

In a guild group, yes, discuss, ask and optimize all you want.
In a PUG, deal with what's available, or leave.

Elsonso

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

strikeback1247 wrote: »

We are not discussing the usefulness of ele drain, what the OP is trying to say is that some people are so sensitive that they will kick you for simply suggesting something that may improve the overall performance. If you can't even take a helpful suggestion, I wonder how you take any constructive criticism in real life.

Again, some people always get confused between suggesting, helping, criticizing and commanding.

Also, OP states that he's been kicked for simply asking, and asking nicely. That may be too much. But if the healer had said "no, thank you, I prefer to keep my bars as they are", would he have accepted that answer ?

In a guild group, yes, discuss, ask and optimize all you want.
In a PUG, deal with what's available, or leave.

It is also a fair bet that there was some amount of stuff that happened between 'asking nicely' and the 'getting kicked'.

EvilCroc

Siphon Spirit for you. Don't ask me to use eledrain, filthy elitists.

JinMori

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.

Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.

Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...

And this is why you are not a good healer.
Healer has the role, of support in a group, which is why a good healer doesn't only heal.
Before talking avout things that you don't know, think twice.

A DPS shouldn't slot e le drain, that would go against their role in the group which is to do DPS.
If they have the buffs as. A part of the rotation then it's fine

anitajoneb17_ESO

JinMori wrote: »

And this is why you are not a good healer.
Healer has the role, of support in a group, which is why a good healer doesn't only heal.
Before talking avout things that you don't know, think twice.

A DPS shouldn't slot e le drain, that would go against their role in the group which is to do DPS.
If they have the buffs as. A part of the rotation then it's fine

We're talking about a PUG here.
The primary role of a healer is to HEAL.
Before using words you don't know, think twice.

Not everyone likes to play BiS and all optimized, and a healer is perfectly entitled to heal and not play the buffing machine.
The DPS are supposed to be somewhat autonomous (again, in a PUG) and are not entitled to have their numbers pushed by someone else sacrificing his own playstyle.

Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

lordrichter wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

strikeback1247 wrote: »

We are not discussing the usefulness of ele drain, what the OP is trying to say is that some people are so sensitive that they will kick you for simply suggesting something that may improve the overall performance. If you can't even take a helpful suggestion, I wonder how you take any constructive criticism in real life.

Again, some people always get confused between suggesting, helping, criticizing and commanding.

Also, OP states that he's been kicked for simply asking, and asking nicely. That may be too much. But if the healer had said "no, thank you, I prefer to keep my bars as they are", would he have accepted that answer ?

In a guild group, yes, discuss, ask and optimize all you want.
In a PUG, deal with what's available, or leave.

It is also a fair bet that there was some amount of stuff that happened between 'asking nicely' and the 'getting kicked'.

*edit* The picture from my last post showed up in this post so I am editing it to remove it.

In reply however. I got into the dungeon I said "Can healer use ele drain in boss fights pls" in those EXACT words and I was kicked. Not a single mob had been attacked yet.

In reply to the other people saying healers only heal and dps should slot it. Lol.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

And this is why you are not a good healer.
Healer has the role, of support in a group, which is why a good healer doesn't only heal.
Before talking avout things that you don't know, think twice.

A DPS shouldn't slot e le drain, that would go against their role in the group which is to do DPS.
If they have the buffs as. A part of the rotation then it's fine

We're talking about a PUG here.
The primary role of a healer is to HEAL.
Before using words you don't know, think twice.

Not everyone likes to play BiS and all optimized, and a healer is perfectly entitled to heal and not play the buffing machine.
The DPS are supposed to be somewhat autonomous (again, in a PUG) and are not entitled to have their numbers pushed by someone else sacrificing his own playstyle.

Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.

All you need to write is "I dont know how to get my dps to max penetration, or at least help them get to it".

anitajoneb17_ESO

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

I literally said "Can healer use ele drain on boss fights pls" EXACT words and was kicked. Not a single mob was killed yet. However sure. Meh.

If that's the exact wording, and you hadn't even started the dungeon yet, then sorry but I can understand why they kicked you.
Why not wait and see first what's available, how people play ?
If they were newbies or insecure in any way, your demand was very likely to scare them.
Also, someone starting that way is likely to demand and complain during the whole dungeon.
If you want an optimized group, don't PUG.

Also, if instead of kicking you, they would have politely answered "no, I prefer to keep my bars as they are", what would you have done ?

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

I literally said "Can healer use ele drain on boss fights pls" EXACT words and was kicked. Not a single mob was killed yet. However sure. Meh.

If that's the exact wording, and you hadn't even started the dungeon yet, then sorry but I can understand why they kicked you.
Why not wait and see first what's available, how people play ?
If they were newbies or insecure in any way, your demand was very likely to scare them.
Also, someone starting that way is likely to demand and complain during the whole dungeon.
If you want an optimized group, don't PUG.

Also, if instead of kicking you, they would have politely answered "no, I prefer to keep my bars as they are", what would you have done ?

Max pen, smoother run, faster run.
Scare them? Asking to use a skill?...
Assuming again.
You idea of optimised is someone using a single skill that was asked for?

If they said that I would of laughed irl.

If a tank does not taunt is he just "not optimised"?
If a healer just heals and does not buff and does not dps are they just "not optimised"?
If a dps just light attacks are they just "not optimised"?

Dont worry I will show myself the elitist door for asking someone to use a SINGLE skill lol..

LadyNalcarya

waitwhat wrote: »

Also is it elitist to ask people to get in voice chat so you can explain the mechanics of Na Kesh?

It is very elitist haha. Trying to explain how Planar Inhibitor works is also very elitist. Of course, its much better to get stuck there for 4 hours and give up. Basically every time you giving an advice or trying to explain something, youre ruining someone's unique playstyle. Once I was in a pug where someone got angry when asked to roll dodge from Spindle1 last boss aoe... That was after he died to every single explosion, of course.
Well, I guess some people think that "play as you want" means that you can clear vet dungeon by using /lute and /playdead.

JinMori

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Also is it elitist to ask people to get in voice chat so you can explain the mechanics of Na Kesh?

It is very elitist haha. Trying to explain how Planar Inhibitor works is also very elitist. Of course, its much better to get stuck there for 4 hours and give up. Basically every time you giving an advice or trying to explain something, youre ruining someone's unique playstyle. Once I was in a pug where someone got angry when asked to roll dodge from Spindle1 last boss aoe... That was after he died to every single explosion, of course.
Well, I guess some people think that "play as you want" means that you can clear vet dungeon by using /lute and /playdead.

I wanna play my unique playstile of spamming bol, and you don't have a say in that.

1 second later, can... can you guys give me a ress please?

Come on.....

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Also is it elitist to ask people to get in voice chat so you can explain the mechanics of Na Kesh?

It is very elitist haha. Trying to explain how Planar Inhibitor works is also very elitist. Of course, its much better to get stuck there for 4 hours and give up. Basically every time you giving an advice or trying to explain something, youre ruining someone's unique playstyle. Once I was in a pug where someone got angry when asked to roll dodge from Spindle1 last boss aoe... That was after he died to every single explosion, of course.
Well, I guess some people think that "play as you want" means that you can clear vet dungeon by using /lute and /playdead.

Yea, its disheartening that some people here are actually saying I am in the wrong for asking NICELY for a healer to use ele drain lol.

Feanor

If the healer doesn't see the merit of running Ele Drain by himself his healing probably is not good anyway ...

anitajoneb17_ESO

JinMori wrote: »

Sorry that reality dismantles your point of view, but if you are not compleating the content because you are playing what you like, expect to be kicked.

So far the reality is that there is no "check before entering dungeons", that I was not the one being kicked as explained in this thread, that all groups I've ever pugged with completed the dungeon, that I've never been kicked from a PUG, that ZOS designed this game for players to play as they like.

I guess we're (ZOS, I and the million people who play as they like) all idiots and I wonder what you're still doing here playing with all these idiots and complaining

Magdalina

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

And this is why you are not a good healer.
Healer has the role, of support in a group, which is why a good healer doesn't only heal.
Before talking avout things that you don't know, think twice.

A DPS shouldn't slot e le drain, that would go against their role in the group which is to do DPS.
If they have the buffs as. A part of the rotation then it's fine

We're talking about a PUG here.
The primary role of a healer is to HEAL.
Before using words you don't know, think twice.

Not everyone likes to play BiS and all optimized, and a healer is perfectly entitled to heal and not play the buffing machine.
The DPS are supposed to be somewhat autonomous (again, in a PUG) and are not entitled to have their numbers pushed by someone else sacrificing his own playstyle.

Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.

That's...not exactly how it works. Sure I can and usually do slot Drain for myself when I dps a pug(because healers either ignore questions about one or have no idea what that is and/or no destro staff). I also can and often do slot heals because healer usually doesn't know how to heal so I end up running Twilight in order to keep everyone up(starting with healer). I also can and sometimes do slot taunt because I tend to have better surviveability with 16k health than tanks do with 30-40k because I'm aware of existence of such complicated mechanics as block, dodge and bash whereas they are clearly not. And I still tend to pull like 60-80% dps in most pug groups(that while my actual dps is really mediocre atm) while doing all/half of that. That brings the question of why exactly do I need that rest of the group when I'm doing all of their roles better than they are yet they get offended if I try to offer them advice? This is not called having fun, this is called carrying. It can actually be fun sometimes, sure, but it gets old.

Yes, there always is the option to run only with friends. The question is, is the community really better off that way? Inexperienced players(let's call them that) run with inexperienced players, never learn anything, never improve and run into solid wall because there's content they simply cannot complete without adapting - which they both refuse to do and don't know how to do anyway. "Elitists" run with "elitists" and get called names because they don't want randoms in their groups, community gets split into 2 opposite parts with the gap between them ever growing. People pulling 3k dps and people pulling 60k dps. And those at 60k dps are yet working on improving their performance whereas those at 3k feel their performance is just fine but the game is simply too hard. Do you really like this environment? The "no I don't want to change anything for the sake of my group, I think you're a jerk for daring to suggest I do something differently, I will play the way I want, even if it costs our group 4 hours of wiping, and you can burn in hell if you don't like it" one?

Why is this attitude so common on these forums? Why is it always assumed that the person expressing...displeasure at someone's underperformance should be a saint, that it is his job to adapt and overcome, he should slot Drain, heals, taunt, shut up and solo the dungeon for poor little scared pricks who refuse to do as much as slot a single skill or write a single response in group chat? Why isn't it taken into consideration that given we're talking about a group activity perhaps THEY should adapt too?

JinMori

Sorry that reality dismantles your point of view, but if you are not compleating the content because you are playing what you like, expect to be kicked.[/quote]

So far the reality is that there is no "check before entering dungeons", that I was not the one being kicked as explained in this thread, that all groups I've ever pugged with completed the dungeon, that I've never been kicked from a PUG, that ZOS designed this game for players to play as they like.

I guess we're (ZOS, I and the million people who play as they like) all idiots and I wonder what you're still doing here playing with all these idiots and complaining



[/quote]

What a strawmen argument, are you actually suggesting that i said that millions of players who play what they like, are idiots, because they don't play bis?


I was only talking about the ones who are being a burden on other players, the ones who are irremediably bad.

Try again.

when you are not winning the argument, you slightly modify some parts, to make it seem like i said that, while it's not actually true, this is your tactic, and the tactic of many people who don;t make good arguments, just modify this and this to make it a little different, and try to shift the balance in my favor.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Magdalina wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

And this is why you are not a good healer.
Healer has the role, of support in a group, which is why a good healer doesn't only heal.
Before talking avout things that you don't know, think twice.

A DPS shouldn't slot e le drain, that would go against their role in the group which is to do DPS.
If they have the buffs as. A part of the rotation then it's fine

We're talking about a PUG here.
The primary role of a healer is to HEAL.
Before using words you don't know, think twice.

Not everyone likes to play BiS and all optimized, and a healer is perfectly entitled to heal and not play the buffing machine.
The DPS are supposed to be somewhat autonomous (again, in a PUG) and are not entitled to have their numbers pushed by someone else sacrificing his own playstyle.

Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.

That's...not exactly how it works. Sure I can and usually do slot Drain for myself when I dps a pug(because healers either ignore questions about one or have no idea what that is and/or no destro staff). I also can and often do slot heals because healer usually doesn't know how to heal so I end up running Twilight in order to keep everyone up(starting with healer). I also can and sometimes do slot taunt because I tend to have better surviveability with 16k health than tanks do with 30-40k because I'm aware of existence of such complicated mechanics as block, dodge and bash whereas they are clearly not. And I still tend to pull like 60-80% dps in most pug groups(that while my actual dps is really mediocre atm) while doing all/half of that. That brings the question of why exactly do I need that rest of the group when I'm doing all of their roles better than they are yet they get offended if I try to offer them advice? This is not called having fun, this is called carrying. It can actually be fun sometimes, sure, but it gets old.

Yes, there always is the option to run only with friends. The question is, is the community really better off that way? Inexperienced players(let's call them that) run with inexperienced players, never learn anything, never improve and run into solid wall because there's content they simply cannot complete without adapting - which they both refuse to do and don't know how to do anyway. "Elitists" run with "elitists" and get called names because they don't want randoms in their groups, community gets split into 2 opposite parts with the gap between them ever growing. People pulling 3k dps and people pulling 60k dps. And those at 60k dps are yet working on improving their performance whereas those at 3k feel their performance is just fine but the game is simply too hard. Do you really like this environment? The "no I don't want to change anything for the sake of my group, I think you're a jerk for daring to suggest I do something differently, I will play the way I want, even if it costs our group 4 hours of wiping, and you can burn in hell if you don't like it" one?

Why is this attitude so common on these forums? Why is it always assumed that the person expressing...displeasure at someone's underperformance should be a saint, that it is his job to adapt and overcome, he should slot Drain, heals, taunt, shut up and solo the dungeon for poor little scared pricks who refuse to do as much as slot a single skill or write a single response in group chat? Why isn't it taken into consideration that given we're talking about a group activity perhaps THEY should adapt too?

That's exactly it and even if it was not the case.. when did asking a healer to slot ele drain scare them to the point they had to kick someone without saying a word.

Destruent

Tbh if you join a GROUP, you should be prepared to play as a group...not as a single-player...but i guess this opinion identifies me as an evil elitist

JinMori

Magdalina wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

And this is why you are not a good healer.
Healer has the role, of support in a group, which is why a good healer doesn't only heal.
Before talking avout things that you don't know, think twice.

A DPS shouldn't slot e le drain, that would go against their role in the group which is to do DPS.
If they have the buffs as. A part of the rotation then it's fine

We're talking about a PUG here.
The primary role of a healer is to HEAL.
Before using words you don't know, think twice.

Not everyone likes to play BiS and all optimized, and a healer is perfectly entitled to heal and not play the buffing machine.
The DPS are supposed to be somewhat autonomous (again, in a PUG) and are not entitled to have their numbers pushed by someone else sacrificing his own playstyle.

Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.

That's...not exactly how it works. Sure I can and usually do slot Drain for myself when I dps a pug(because healers either ignore questions about one or have no idea what that is and/or no destro staff). I also can and often do slot heals because healer usually doesn't know how to heal so I end up running Twilight in order to keep everyone up(starting with healer). I also can and sometimes do slot taunt because I tend to have better surviveability with 16k health than tanks do with 30-40k because I'm aware of existence of such complicated mechanics as block, dodge and bash whereas they are clearly not. And I still tend to pull like 60-80% dps in most pug groups(that while my actual dps is really mediocre atm) while doing all/half of that. That brings the question of why exactly do I need that rest of the group when I'm doing all of their roles better than they are yet they get offended if I try to offer them advice? This is not called having fun, this is called carrying. It can actually be fun sometimes, sure, but it gets old.

Yes, there always is the option to run only with friends. The question is, is the community really better off that way? Inexperienced players(let's call them that) run with inexperienced players, never learn anything, never improve and run into solid wall because there's content they simply cannot complete without adapting - which they both refuse to do and don't know how to do anyway. "Elitists" run with "elitists" and get called names because they don't want randoms in their groups, community gets split into 2 opposite parts with the gap between them ever growing. People pulling 3k dps and people pulling 60k dps. And those at 60k dps are yet working on improving their performance whereas those at 3k feel their performance is just fine but the game is simply too hard. Do you really like this environment? The "no I don't want to change anything for the sake of my group, I think you're a jerk for daring to suggest I do something differently, I will play the way I want, even if it costs our group 4 hours of wiping, and you can burn in hell if you don't like it" one?

Why is this attitude so common on these forums? Why is it always assumed that the person expressing...displeasure at someone's underperformance should be a saint, that it is his job to adapt and overcome, he should slot Drain, heals, taunt, shut up and solo the dungeon for poor little scared pricks who refuse to do as much as slot a single skill or write a single response in group chat? Why isn't it taken into consideration that given we're talking about a group activity perhaps THEY should adapt too?

This is it.
Good post.