Next time you scream elitist.

witchdoctor · September 2017

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

if someone asks for ele-drain and he deosn't want to slot it bc he has radiant aura, i don't get why he isn't explaining it?

Because he doesn't owe an answer to Joe Blow DPS who just zoned in, swinging his staff like its the biggest on the block?

In the end, I even - in the principle - agree with the OP. I just highly suspect he rubbed 3 people the wrong way and they happily let him know.

I said one line. Like I said. Thats it. Project more.

I'm not projecting anything. I'm pointing out that the healer didn't boot you on his own.

There is more than one side to the story, and I am ever more sure that you aren't sharing everything.

DarkAedin · September 2017

ValkynSketha wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Aren't there other ways to get mag steal and breach though? I mean, isn't that skill a little overrated?

It is a free cost skill man

Puncture and restoring aura which are run anyway. So its completely useless to run this in most scenarios

tommalmm · September 2017

Feanor wrote: »

If the healer doesn't see the merit of running Ele Drain by himself his healing probably good anyway

Why? I prefer restoring aura to ele drain any time of the day (I do use ele drain on a sorc, though). Mostly because it's aoe. It applies minor magicka steal just as ele drain and it aggroes whatever wasn't taunted by tank, giving DDs more comfortable working environment. It lacks the major breach, but penetration is tank's role. So if the tank is using ransack (there is really no reason to do it outside of PVP), then kick the bloody tank.

I usually ignore requests to slot ele drain. I get a hunch that most players that ask about it have no idea there are at least two other ways to apply minor magicka steal.

As DD, when there is no major breach (but there still is minor magicka steal applied), I always ask tank as to why s/he doesn't use the proper morph. ~1k resistance is nothing when you're already at the cap or near it.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

Destruent wrote: »

if you enter a room you say hello, if someone asks you anything you reply to it and so on...if not you will most likely get called out for it in RL. Why is it more or less accepted in a game? i don't get it...

IRL works exactly the same way. Let's imagine a person A who happens to randomly be the same team as person B for a common task.

Common courtesy :
Person A : Hello
Person B : Hi, nice to meet you.
Person A : let's start

Discourteous :
Person A : What's that strange hair colour of yours ?
Person B : .....

Appropriate :
Person A : How do we get organized ? Could you do that part and I take care of the other part ?
Person B : OK let's try it this way

Inappropriate :
Person A : You do this, I do the rest
Person B : (is legitimately offended and leaves)

IT seems to me that real life is far more polite and courteous than ingame life, and that hardcore gamers (unlike casuals) tend to forget their manners more often than not.

Destruent wrote: »

edit: and this doesn't has to do anything with elitist etc. it's just about being polite/nice to your groupmembers, nothing else
regarding ele-drain: if i need ele-drain why should i not ask for it? if the healer does not use it, i could slot it myself...but that's an information i need pre-fight...not hard to understand i guess.

OP didn't ask the healer IF he would apply ele drain. He asked (demanded) him to.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

A lot of people here saying they know what I said and ignoring what I said lol.

LadyNalcarya · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

He asked (demanded) him to.

Then this healer shouldnt ask (demand) him to do dps.

Or to avoid red circles and oneshots.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

A lot of people here saying they know what I said and ignoring what I said lol.

Youre an "elitist", for some people here this very word is like a red cloth for a bull...
I saw one guy who came to a theorycrafting math thread with "elitism" accusations, so yeah.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

He asked (demanded) him to.

Then this healer shouldnt ask (demand) him to do dps. Or to avoid red circles and oneshots.

As far as we know this healer didn't say nor ask nor demand anything.

LadyNalcarya · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

He asked (demanded) him to.

Then this healer shouldnt ask (demand) him to do dps. Or to avoid red circles and oneshots.

As far as we know this healer didn't say nor ask nor demand anything.

Yet he kicked OP for simply asking.

technohic · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.

Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.

Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...

Just out of curiosity; What exactly are you running to only heal people to where you couldn't fit an ele-draing?

I don't care either way, TBH; just trying to figure out if the focus of healing, do you have 10 slots of heals?

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Yet he kicked OP for simply asking.

I'll refer you to what @witchdoctor said, in order to stop running around in circles here.

witchdoctor · September 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

He asked (demanded) him to.

Then this healer shouldnt ask (demand) him to do dps. Or to avoid red circles and oneshots.

As far as we know this healer didn't say nor ask nor demand anything.

Yet he kicked OP for simply asking.

No. A *majority* kicked him for 'simply asking.' OP zoned in, 'asked,' and the majority showed him the door.

This isn't an elitist issue. This is a social graces issue.

LadyNalcarya · September 2017

witchdoctor wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

He asked (demanded) him to.

Then this healer shouldnt ask (demand) him to do dps. Or to avoid red circles and oneshots.

As far as we know this healer didn't say nor ask nor demand anything.

Yet he kicked OP for simply asking.

No. A *majority* kicked him for 'simply asking.' OP zoned in, 'asked,' and the majority showed him the door.

This isn't an elitist issue. This is a social graces issue.

This majority often kicks pre-vets from normal dungeons. Or doesnt want to follow the mechanics and cooperate.
This is a social grace issue, but I doubt it was coming from OP...
My main is a healer and dont see any issues in asking for specific support set and skill. When I join semi-pug trials, I'm always asked if I can wear X set or something... Thats pretty normal, and no one gets offended. If someone doesnt have the set of skill morph (like power of the light for example), they just say they cant.

EvilCroc · September 2017

Asking for different skills is offensive behavior. It implies that you dispute ability of another player to run good build.

SoLooney · September 2017

lol all this butt hurt and salt over how useful ele drain is in a pug dungeon. if people havent realized yet, sharpened has been nerfed bad, not too many people running sharp weapons in dungeons, they usually get the lover mundus or speccing into cp.

having ele drain on bosses would only help the mag dps in the group. faster kills, better resource management aka finish the dungeon quicker.
and no, a healers job is not only to heal, youre performing bare minimum which is ok in a pug setting, but healers buff with abilities like combat prayer, spell power cure, worm etc etc, only helps the dps kill stuff quicker, win win situation. dont know why you wouldnt as a healer

witchdoctor · September 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

... This is a social grace issue, but I doubt it was coming from OP...

Well, we will never know. If we get into opinion, mine is different than your's, but that's just opinion.

I am very sure the discussion went further than what the OP has said.

Myyth · September 2017

From what ive read ele drain is useless in groups

the slot could be used for a much more usefull skill

Destruent · September 2017

IT seems to me that real life is far more polite and courteous than ingame life, and that hardcore gamers (unlike casuals) tend to forget their manners more often than not.

Destruent wrote: »

edit: and this doesn't has to do anything with elitist etc. it's just about being polite/nice to your groupmembers, nothing else
regarding ele-drain: if i need ele-drain why should i not ask for it? if the healer does not use it, i could slot it myself...but that's an information i need pre-fight...not hard to understand i guess.

OP didn't ask the healer IF he would apply ele drain. He asked (demanded) him to.

TBH when running with more progress-minded people (even if i don't know them) it usually never happened that noone replies in chat...when pugging it's more or less common...

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

Destruent wrote: »

TBH when running with more progress-minded people (even if i don't know them) it usually never happened that noone replies in chat...when pugging it's more or less common...

Well, maybe they can't ? I mean, I pugged a vet dungeon yesterday and all 3 other members used group chat... in cyrillic... there was no way I could answer anything to anyone, if they ever asked anything to me

And yes, obviously progress-minded people will be more inline with other progress-minded people. But don't expect it from PUGs.

Destruent · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

TBH when running with more progress-minded people (even if i don't know them) it usually never happened that noone replies in chat...when pugging it's more or less common...

Well, maybe they can't ? I mean, I pugged a vet dungeon yesterday and all 3 other members used group chat... in cyrillic... there was no way I could answer anything to anyone, if they ever asked anything to me

this doesn't pretend anyone from writing something like "sry, don't understand you" in any language they think the other one could understand...
don't search problems where there are none...

witchdoctor · September 2017

@Destruent You have misquoted me. I did not write what you quoted.

Destruent · September 2017

witchdoctor wrote: »

@Destruent You have misquoted me. I did not write what you quoted.

oh, i'm sry...quotes got messed up...i think i quoted @anitajoneb17_ESO

squinquargesimus · September 2017

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

if someone asks for ele-drain and he deosn't want to slot it bc he has radiant aura, i don't get why he isn't explaining it?

Because he doesn't owe an answer to Joe Blow DPS who just zoned in, swinging his staff like its the biggest on the block?

In the end, I even - in the principle - agree with the OP. I just highly suspect he rubbed 3 people the wrong way and they happily let him know.

I said one line. Like I said. Thats it. Project more.

Did you, like, even say hello or did you open with "use ele drain pls" lmao

like seriously -- @witchdoctor is right in saying that the healer can't have kicked you on his own and your one line seems to have stricken more than one person on here as condescending and presumptuous as well.

I don't even agree with the idea that people shouldn't at least try to be effective in their role or anything when in a group, but telling some random how to play like that, without even giving them a chance to show whether or not they even need any advice no less, isn't really nice or non elitist.

Honestly -- if OP had something after the group had started and a DPS problem had indeed become apparent that would have already been different. But as it is it comes across a lot like "I know how to play better than you and you should just do as I say" rather than anything else.

witchdoctor · September 2017

Thanks!

Rainraven · September 2017

I'd never scream it, only sigh it softly.

Respectfully OP, without any of the three people who voted to kick you showing up to say why (in the hell) they did that, it could have been they didn't like your outfit or your name or one of them had a guildie who wanted in, and you requesting a particular skill be used was just incidental.

But if your point is that people are randomly ***ish and it sucks, I'm with you. It might be just as well you didn't have to spend any more time with them.

phileunderx2 · September 2017

I think you got grouped with 3 Yolo ' s who were all deeps. So I doubt the healer was a healer. #puglife

Mureel · September 2017

There is nth wrong with saying ele drain pls. Or can you use ele drain.

Anyone that sensitive is gonna have issues everywhere.

Mureel · September 2017

Myyth wrote: »

From what ive read ele drain is useless in groups

the slot could be used for a much more usefull skill

Like what?

Send the elements to sap an enemy's defenses, afflicting them with Major Breach, which reduces Spell Resistance by 5280 for 21 seconds.|Also applies Minor Magickasteal to the enemy for 24 seconds, causing you and your allies to restore 400 Magicka every 1 second when damaging them.

Useless in groups. Ok.

zaria · September 2017

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

And this is why you are not a good healer.
Healer has the role, of support in a group, which is why a good healer doesn't only heal.
Before talking avout things that you don't know, think twice.

A DPS shouldn't slot e le drain, that would go against their role in the group which is to do DPS.
If they have the buffs as. A part of the rotation then it's fine

We're talking about a PUG here.
The primary role of a healer is to HEAL.
Before using words you don't know, think twice.

Not everyone likes to play BiS and all optimized, and a healer is perfectly entitled to heal and not play the buffing machine.
The DPS are supposed to be somewhat autonomous (again, in a PUG) and are not entitled to have their numbers pushed by someone else sacrificing his own playstyle.

Guess why so many people at endgame report to be so bored (and blame it on ZOS) ? Because they all play the same way and impose that way onto others. In the end everyone play the same things, the same builds, the same rotations, the same strategies. That's why people get bored. If you don't have a healer with ele drain, then compensate some other way, think out the box, be creative, adapt. That way you won't get bored so quickly.

This kind of mentality really angers me, i would be perfectly fine with the play what you like mentality in a single player game, but in a mmo, that's another story.

You do realize that you play with other people, if you continue to fail because of your build, you will waste those people's time, energy, and generally *** them off, because they would rather win, then lose.

That statement play what you like is just an excuse to be a lazy and egoistic person, because you don't wanna spend 1 hour of your life to inform yourself on how to play your class correctly.

Also, it doesn't really make sense, who would like to lose? Or even better, who would like to lose, and then find the excuse, i play what i like, to justify your poor performance?

It's most probable that if those people found out a better build, they would ditch their "i play what i like build" in a blink of an eye.

Wanna know why when i decided to play this game i went for the best i could do at the moment, because of 3 reasons, 1: i wanted to perform as good as possible,
2: i like to do as much dps as i can,
3: I don't wanna be burden to other people, and since i understand how frustrating it is to lose continuously because of 1 person, i try not to do that.

This is not a single player game, if you wanna play with that mentality, go play a single player, or go rp, where no one gives a *** what you play.

They obviously are the kind of healer who does no damage, does no buffing and thinks healing is all they need to do in that role.

I wonder if they would care if a dps only did light attacks and one skill that has a low dps output making the content slower.
I wonder if they would care if the tank wanted to not taunt or debuff making the content way slower.

I will assume they would say something along the line of "they can do what they want as long as the content is finished" completely forgetting that someone in that group might not want to spend 1 hour on a 15 minute run..

The give take seems to end with them taking in these situations.

I ask for a single skill to be used (I am taking too much, what a elitist meanie)
They ask us to take a considerable amount more time in a dungeon and work harder to make up for them not doing a role in a more effective way (Nah thats just being a considerate person).

This, I run mostly as healer and mostly in pugs.
You use ele drain, its part of healer task and it help you too, its part of any magic user rotation in dps tests on skeleton.
As someone should use it its best that the healer does, again in pugs you don't plan so you need standard procedures.

As for doing damage, that else to do in easy fights? no you don't have to do damage and on hard bosses you don't know it can be smart to have magic in reserve and be ready to heal all the time.

CountEdmondDantes · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Remember that sometimes you can ask nicely of a healer to use ele drain and the group will kick you for "telling them how to play".

Projection.

People have to realize that "slotting something" isn't that easy. It may break an entire build or rotation. I don't accept those requests either.

Some healers focus on healing and not buffing (and imho they're right). Your PUG healer doesn't have to be a buffing machine and there should be nothing to ask or complain about as long as the group is kept alive.

Want ele drain ? Slot it yourself...

This right here. This.

Let me tell you about an experience I had about a month ago running a dungeon. Four person dungeon, three of us were running pre-CP characters and my daughter was the healer. She's got like 500+ CPs. We start, we're having fun, everything's going fine. Joking on Discord. This is what playing an MMO should be, right?

Then one of the others has to drop off - a phone call from a girl. Fine. We give him ten minutes, then we kick him. (It's okay, he knows our rules.) Now we pull in a pug player. Offer him/her discord info but they don't get on. We pick up and move on.

Suddenly, we get a text asking my daughter to slot a skill I frankly have never heard of (but then I don't heal). After this pause, my daughter replies - in text - that she's a Templar and that's not even a Templar skill. Another pause. Then we get: "WTF, no one is running this skill (whatever it was)."

Keep in mind, this person hasn't even died yet. We keep going. Just that experience, with that attitude, has made the dungeon a lot less fun. Now we're just trying to get done. We move through the second boss quickly and another text appears. Now my daughter invites them again to get on Discord so we can explain what's going on. Again, no response.

We start up again, thinking everything's as okay as it's going to get, and here comes another text. Talk about a chair circle moment. We have to stop what we're doing and try to explain to this person why we can't do this thing they want us to do. At this point, my daughter is getting really frustrated, because of the "learn to play" responses we're getting from this person - and she's been on the game since day one.

Going into the final boss, the person drops off. They just quit. Fine. We manage to pull through - thanks to my daughter's healing - and we finish. It's okay. We have that conversation we've had a few dozen times about not using pugs ever again.

To be fair, I've had good experiences with pugs and picked up a few friends that way. But in the past few months the bad experiences have started to outweigh the good. Maybe I've learned enough about the game to realize that some of the advice people give in pug groups is just bad.

To answer the OP's question: it's not elitist to ask for a skill to be slotted. Ask away. You might not get the answer you want, though. And if you don't, try to improvise. (And by the way, building your character is such a way that you constantly need someone else to throw down a skill so you can sustain is probably not the best idea.)

What is elitiest - and annoying as hell - is to not to participate in a group. It's a group. It's not all about you. What can you do to help the group? That may include getting on Discord or TS so we can explain something to you without typing every detail out in chat. I know, the player may be shy, they may not like the sound of their voice, they may be hiding something - whatever - just get on and don't talk. But listen!!! Because that is really annoying.

Okay, rant over. Sorry.

Nolic1 · September 2017

Well can I get you to run reapers mark on your nightblade please or can I get you to run your group buff on your dragonknight or hey sorc can you run this ulti to stop casters from casting and give us a small heal. There has been alot of times I have asking for things to be told by the dps they can not get rid of any skills cause it would effect there build even though these other skill could help the group for certain fights.

So this argument about being kicked for asking the healer to change there build to have the skill you ask for is not different. I have been kicked for asking all the above and more because the dps builds can never change but healers and tanks have to change there build all the time to fit the needs of dps. Its a 2 way street here people not a one way street.