Masel92 wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Morgul667
Ok, tested it out using Grothdarr, 5 Juli, 4 Archtect. Wasn't great. 30k was my highest. I've maxed at 38k on my pet build so far.





These were with double Juli infused. Parses with Maelstrom were coming out around 28k on the non pet build with vMA. I tried Infused, Sharp, and Precise. About the same damage each time.

Thanks for the feedback

I do get consistent 36k by myself with elemental susceptibility on a centurion. With a charged IA lightning front bar staff and a nirnhoned vMA staff back bar.. Having one or two sorcs use that will be more valuable now as concussion uptime was nerfed by 33%.

The second parse posted by @dpencil1 has a drain/regen difference of 450~, so it is not at all sustainable and would run out of mag soon after the dummy is dead. Keep that in mind, you're going to have to use more heavy attacks to sustain that. Good parse ofc, but just wanted to remind people that small dummies hardly say anything about the consistent trial dps you'd get.

In a raid you'd get orbs and wormcult, adding about a 250 regen if you used orbs on cooldown, so still 200 of difference there.

This isn't about testing trial DPS. If you want to test your trial DPS a dummy is worthless. This is about comparing setups. And a repeated tests on the 3mil dummy are just fine for testing.

Why would you need to have full resources at the end of a fight?

The reason why I keep emphasising this is that your dps is determined by a lot of variables, of which sustain has become a very important one with morrowind.

So leaving that variable out of the testing is influencing your results to a great deal obviously. I agree that you could do multiple tests on a small dummy to get a larger sample, but you're still going to leave out a key variable in your testing and the distribution of critical hits for example is still going to be different from what you will get on one bigger test as your rotation will change once you have to focus on resource management.

At which point your buff uptimes will become different from one test to another, meaning more variables. The number of heavy attacks will also be different from one parse to another. At this point you can't compare the parses anymore because you weren't doing the exact same thing in each single one of them. Unless of course you find a perfect rotation to do on the 6mil dummy with a set number of heavy attacks and the same sequences (which is without a doubt doable, but far too long) in order to keep those variables in check, then sure you could do accurate testing on the 6mil dummy. Without that however, the 3mil dummy is more accurate.

And either way, in a trial my rotation looks much more like the one I do on the 3mil dummy than the one I do on the 6mil dummy or the Centurion. Master Resto, Shards and Sentinel of Rkugamz take care of the sustain issues just fine, to the point where I can consistently pull off a rotation similar to the 3mil dummy one. You can't take a solo situation where you fight for extensive periods of time because that in itself isn't accurate. You're always going to have support for resource management in a raid group.

@Asayre

I have a question maybe you have the answers to,

I'm interested in strictly the traits themselves, if you took the new PTS infused and precise values, and compared them to the current live sharpened value (5160) , how do the traits match up in this comparison? As this, to me at least is the value of penetration that would be lost once the patch goes live if swapping to infused or precise.

dpencil1 wrote: »

@DerpyShadowz
It's not nearly that simple. Uptime on Infused, assuming you're using a specific enchant including total spell damage and damage amplifiers, overall crit chance before precise, amount of penetration already on the target. All of these factors matter.

Maybe i should have said, lets assume the testing conditions are the exact same as the original post, if that makes sense.

So... with the 6 sec duration change to poison would it be better to have poison glyph or weapons enchant glyph on the infused weapon? This is in regards to a stamplar dual wielding.

JonnytheKing wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Thanks for the testing. Looks like the trait balance is much better overall than before. Perhaps Sharp should be a little better mostly as a nod to those who farmed it for so long. Overall though the balance looks much better in your PvE analysis than it did in JonnytheKing's PVP analysis.

Great work to both you Asayre and to ZOS as well.

wat can i say my numbers a real life testing and the numbers speak for them selfs

I think what can be said is that it is much more difficult to balance for PVP than for PVE and that there is no way to have traits/skills/anything balanced for compelling play in both. I think what can also be said is that you and Asayre did excellent jobs with each of your testing sequences and illustrated this quite well. At least it does now appear that traits are going to be reasonably balanced in PVE when before they were not reasonably balanced in either.

For what it is worth, I do think that there will now be well informed players who use Infused, Nirnhoned, Precise, and Sharpened. That could not be said before and might be the best definition of "balanced".

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Is it true that the magicka bonus of the Mage isnt effected by skills like Inner Light or other magicka increase buffs?

If so, its a bit weird because the Apprentice spell dmg value does increase with major sorcery, right?

Should be - any percent increases should be applied at the end, otherwise you'd get diminishing returns not indicative of the % tooltip.

Gilliamtherogue said Infused/Sharp was BiS on stam duel wield, assuming you were not already at pen cap, otherwise Precise/Sharp. I imagine it's similar for mag. He'll focus on mag next week.

Since i use different calculations based on my testing i come up with different numbers. Are they are not the same as the Ops. But let's ignore this for a moment. The Mage mundus is underrated by quite a bit. So ignoring my spreadsheet here's actual hits with mage and apprentice. Note that i'm using 4 divines and 3 infused on my gear as you should.

Mage vs Apprentice with Mage being the baseline
3218 vs 3223=0.16% increase for Apprentice
2440 vs 2447=0.29% increase for Apprentice
11319 vs 11347=0.25% increase for Apprentice
4767 vs 4486=6.26% increase for Mage

Note the last is my pet and pets Pulse does not increase damage with weapon power and instead increases via magicka.

Now let's say 87% of my damage is non pet and 13% oh my damage is from my one pets pulse. I'll average out the non pet damage to .25% increased damage.

So for Apprentice we get .25%*.87=0.22% for non pet stuff

For Mage we get 6.26%*.13=0.81%, 0.81% for the pet

So for 1 pet Mage beats Apprentice with a difference of 0.59%

Also note that i'm using bound aegis and inner light for the extra % increase to magicka and also the mettle passive and i'm using necropotence and Julianas. Results for the Mage would be less otherwise but it'll still beat Apprentice.

As regards the Thief vs the Shadow this depends on what your crit% is and what your crit damage% is. As an example with my gear as previously noted i have as follows.

The Shadow 52.5% crit and 85.6% crit damage
The Thief 64.2% crit and 70% crit damage

The results are the exact same and i mean exactly. If you use cp to increase crit damage more then the Thief starts pulling ahead. Now let's say you swap in a helm or whatever that increases crit% then the Shadow pulls ahead.

Enough of my ranting for now except to say i get as follows. Ignoring The Lover (penetration) atm as i haven't done the math for it yet. Again this is for my gear etc.


The Thief and The Shadow tied for #1
The Mage #3
The Apprentice #4

Penetration will be somewhere in there. I just don't know where yet. If i use Precise on one of my weapons then The Shadow takes the #1 spot for me and The Thief drops to #2.

Thou shalt not question the infallible Asayre!

.

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@PS4_ZeColmeia what is "MA"?

Medium armor

I see, also this thread is about pve dps, not PvP. So while there is some overlap, what you are talking about is not what Asarye is mathing out.

Precise is better then nirn because the extra crit scales with your crit hit damage, which is something to keep in mind when you talk about trials, you will generally have a warhorn rotation and such, see Asayres "group" calulation in the op of this thread.

And ice furnace is not a trial set, it is a dungeon set that only comes in heavy and is pretty bad. Not sure what kind of dps, PvP or pve, would use it. Ice furnace does not drop in nirn, like all dropped sets, with the exception of the weapons that come out of vMA.

So a little clarification, I'm aware we're talking PvE DPS. Ice furnace I use in trials with Pelinal because it's so easy to do AOE damage with it. When doing weapons I craft the nirn weapons so that's where the nirn comes in on these sets.

My point on MA is that it gives +20% to weapon damage when paired with flawless dawn breaker. In my opinion, that favors nirnhorned weapons because it has a higher base weapon damage value. Light armor and heavy armor are different because their values, penetration and weapon/spell damage, are flat values.

My other point is that I utilize shadowy disguise, even in PvE, to take advantage of nightblade and Khajiit passives which boost damage from stealth AND gives a guaranteed crit. Stealth completely destroys weaving and rotation speed however. It's for that reason that infused would be less optimal than nirn in my setup because I would not maintain 80% uptime infused needs to edge out nirn.

That was my point, which is independent of set or type of gameplay.

I threw up in my mouth a little

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Sunah wrote: »

So... with the 6 sec duration change to poison would it be better to have poison glyph or weapons enchant glyph on the infused weapon? This is in regards to a stamplar dual wielding.

Where did you get the 6 sec duration thing? It looks like the cooldown is still 5 seconds to me.

He speaks about the 6 second dot of the "poisoned" effect who often proc on poison enchant.