Mundus, trait and CP optimisation for PVE damage dealers

DeHei

Jeckll wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

I want to know if infused is worth it on legendary traits like the vma 2 hander with poison enchant on top.

Why would you destroy a vMA 2h with a Poison Glyph?
The additional Weapon Damage is part of the default Weapon Enchant of vMA Weapons. Using another Glyph means you lose the Weapon Damage as well. Its still shown on the Character Screen but it doesnt apply.

You can use poisons, though.

Infused, sharpened or precise i would say.

MCBIZZLE300

Jeckll wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

I want to know if infused is worth it on legendary traits like the vma 2 hander with poison enchant on top.

Why would you destroy a vMA 2h with a Poison Glyph?
The additional Weapon Damage is part of the default Weapon Enchant of vMA Weapons. Using another Glyph means you lose the Weapon Damage as well. Its still shown on the Character Screen but it doesnt apply.

You can use poisons, though.

Sorry i meant with poisons not enchant.

DeHei

mcb123 wrote: »

Jeckll wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

I want to know if infused is worth it on legendary traits like the vma 2 hander with poison enchant on top.

Why would you destroy a vMA 2h with a Poison Glyph?
The additional Weapon Damage is part of the default Weapon Enchant of vMA Weapons. Using another Glyph means you lose the Weapon Damage as well. Its still shown on the Character Screen but it doesnt apply.

You can use poisons, though.

Sorry i meant with poisons not enchant.

The poisoneffect makes the enchantmenteffect useless during the active time of the poison. vMSA weapons have on of the strongest enchantmenteffects ingame and when you dont want it, you should better use a setstaff with poisons.

MCBIZZLE300

DeHei wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

Jeckll wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

I want to know if infused is worth it on legendary traits like the vma 2 hander with poison enchant on top.

Why would you destroy a vMA 2h with a Poison Glyph?
The additional Weapon Damage is part of the default Weapon Enchant of vMA Weapons. Using another Glyph means you lose the Weapon Damage as well. Its still shown on the Character Screen but it doesnt apply.

You can use poisons, though.

Sorry i meant with poisons not enchant.

The poisoneffect makes the enchantmenteffect useless during the active time of the poison. vMSA weapons have on of the strongest enchantmenteffects ingame and when you dont want it, you should better use a setstaff with poisons.

Im talking about a VMA 2 hander sharp with poison, wondering if the extra damage from the infused ennchant would be worth it or wether to run precise/sharp. The part of the enchant that has weapon damage added remains when poison is applied.

DeHei

mcb123 wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

Jeckll wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

I want to know if infused is worth it on legendary traits like the vma 2 hander with poison enchant on top.

Why would you destroy a vMA 2h with a Poison Glyph?
The additional Weapon Damage is part of the default Weapon Enchant of vMA Weapons. Using another Glyph means you lose the Weapon Damage as well. Its still shown on the Character Screen but it doesnt apply.

You can use poisons, though.

Sorry i meant with poisons not enchant.

The poisoneffect makes the enchantmenteffect useless during the active time of the poison. vMSA weapons have on of the strongest enchantmenteffects ingame and when you dont want it, you should better use a setstaff with poisons.

Im talking about a VMA 2 hander sharp with poison, wondering if the extra damage from the infused ennchant would be worth it or wether to run precise/sharp. The part of the enchant that has weapon damage added remains when poison is applied.

The enchantment is strong, but infused is useless for it, because the downtime for that enchantment dont works, because its allready active all time. So better nirnhoned, presice or sharpened.

MCBIZZLE300

DeHei wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

Jeckll wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

I want to know if infused is worth it on legendary traits like the vma 2 hander with poison enchant on top.

Why would you destroy a vMA 2h with a Poison Glyph?
The additional Weapon Damage is part of the default Weapon Enchant of vMA Weapons. Using another Glyph means you lose the Weapon Damage as well. Its still shown on the Character Screen but it doesnt apply.

You can use poisons, though.

Sorry i meant with poisons not enchant.

The poisoneffect makes the enchantmenteffect useless during the active time of the poison. vMSA weapons have on of the strongest enchantmenteffects ingame and when you dont want it, you should better use a setstaff with poisons.

Im talking about a VMA 2 hander sharp with poison, wondering if the extra damage from the infused ennchant would be worth it or wether to run precise/sharp. The part of the enchant that has weapon damage added remains when poison is applied.

The enchantment is strong, but infused is useless for it, because the downtime for that enchantment dont works, because its allready active all time. So better nirnhoned, presice or sharpened.

Yes but what i mean is in horns of the reach the flat bonus damage is being increased by 10%. Will this mean that infused will be worth running on a vma weapon with a poison on top as it will make that flat damage 30% stronger with the addition of a poison on top. for example now a masters greatsword has a bonus of 189 damage but an infused master greatsword has a bonus of 210

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

mcb123 wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

Jeckll wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

I want to know if infused is worth it on legendary traits like the vma 2 hander with poison enchant on top.

Why would you destroy a vMA 2h with a Poison Glyph?
The additional Weapon Damage is part of the default Weapon Enchant of vMA Weapons. Using another Glyph means you lose the Weapon Damage as well. Its still shown on the Character Screen but it doesnt apply.

You can use poisons, though.

Sorry i meant with poisons not enchant.

The poisoneffect makes the enchantmenteffect useless during the active time of the poison. vMSA weapons have on of the strongest enchantmenteffects ingame and when you dont want it, you should better use a setstaff with poisons.

Im talking about a VMA 2 hander sharp with poison, wondering if the extra damage from the infused ennchant would be worth it or wether to run precise/sharp. The part of the enchant that has weapon damage added remains when poison is applied.

The enchantment is strong, but infused is useless for it, because the downtime for that enchantment dont works, because its allready active all time. So better nirnhoned, presice or sharpened.

Yes but what i mean is in horns of the reach the flat bonus damage is being increased by 10%. Will this mean that infused will be worth running on a vma weapon with a poison on top as it will make that flat damage 30% stronger with the addition of a poison on top. for example now a masters greatsword has a bonus of 189 damage but an infused master greatsword has a bonus of 210

infused master greatsword has a bonus of 246. plus cleave does an extra 894 damage.

ssewallb14_ESO

Could anyone explain what kind of graph this is for us non-math folk?

edit: nevermind, thanks google image search
http://www.physics.csbsju.edu/stats/box2.html

PS4_ZeColmeia

@Asayre back in the day you had a point in which critical chance no longer was valuable, I think around 60%, assuming proper penetration does that number still hold true today. My question centers around using infused. If I understand enchantment properly, it uses your highest crit chance to possibly crit the enchantment. Since it's event based I would assume it's more a Poisson distribution, without using torgue, on the enchant. As such having the highest possible crit chance on each hit is more valuable than the 60% normal distribution number for balancing crit chance with other sources of damage increase.

Your thoughts?

dpencil1

Can someone help me with the calculations for %bonuses? Like putting on Bound Armor doesn't give you 8% of the actual max magicka you currently have but 8% of a base magicka that is already being amped by other things. I understand it's "additive" with other bonuses instead of "multiplicative" but I'm just not sure how to actually do the math for it.

Say I have 47274 magicka before Bound Aegis and 50534 magicka after activating it. For the bonus to actually be 8%, my true max magicka has to be more like 46790. So I'm getting 484 magicka from some source that is not accounted for by Bound Aegis.

Asayre

@PS4_ZeColmeia, I never had a point whre critical chance was no longer valuable. What is torgue? Why Poisson and not binomial or normal approximation?

@dpencil1, your magicka % bonuses without Bound Armour is 16% or 24% with Bound Armour.

LilySix

Hi !

Just to make sure I understand things the right way.

For raid groups DDs, they now have to use infused trait and not precise ?

PS4_ZeColmeia

Asayre wrote: »

@PS4_ZeColmeia, I never had a point whre critical chance was no longer valuable. What is torgue? Why Poisson and not binomial or normal approximation?

@dpencil1, your magicka % bonuses without Bound Armour is 16% or 24% with Bound Armour.

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, I can't find the thread I'm thinking but I feel like I saw a regression where you were explaining how after a point the increase to actual amount of crits vs the value of crit damage was around 60% I think it was in reference to the thief vs shadow Mundus stone. So I meant to say, its not that you shouldn't go over 60% over starting to increase your crit damage done. It's been awhile so I may have this all jumbled in my head now.

I mean Torug (torug pact), I have no clue why my cell corrected to that word.

I felt that for enchantment that if there is enough gaps in between each proc chance and in my head the short duration in a "outside of a trial boss fight" that the instances of an enchantment proc would be low to look at it from a event approximation. That would change with infused and Torug, because the speed of proc'ing would be high enough in most fights to see a similar behavior in short duration fights as you would in long ones.

So in my head combining those two lines of thought made me think (1) if enchantments proc off of the highest crit chance [not sure just heard] and (2) using infused without torug, that maybe the point where crit damage increases dps over crit chance might be higher from purely an enchantment with infused standpoint.

The reason I'm asking is its very easy on my hybrid to get high weapon crit and reasonable spell crit. I primarily cast spells, but it'd be nothing to get around 60ish weapon crit and still not take the thief mundus stone. What I am trying to balance though is since I'd be casting my stamina based skills around 30% of the time, but they would be in the 50-60% chance to crit while my spells would be 40-50% would the value of daggers be worth it with infused paired with say a poison or fire glyph. I am using a set that procs off of crits done and I'm focusing more on base damage than crit damage, so I don't want to start trading other sources of damage to drive crits through the roof.

I just wanted to get your input on the enchantment side so I could use it as a input as I start to DPS test and refine my stats and rotation.

Gilliamtherogue

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Septimus_Magna Yeah, I've been following Gilliam's streams also. I don't think it's fair to say Sharp is only good in solo application. Certainly in top-tier coordinated raid guilds it will be unnecessary, but a large part of the community doesn't do that. For 4-man dungeons and pug normal trials, you can't rely on your team mates as much to provide all those juicy buffs. So for most people, and the content they generally run, Sharp and Precise are going to be very close in terms of overall effectiveness.

You don't need to rely on teammates for insane debuffing such as Minor Breach/Alkosh/Infused Crusher. Sharpened and Lover both become highly mitigated traits with just Major Breach applied to the target. Penetration suffers diminishing returns as the target gets closer and closer to being fully penetrated. This simple spreadsheet shows some of the effect;



Using the Pen / 500 = to find % dps increase is used as an extremely rough guideline, but is highly volatile when examining the actual math and stacking of pen. This is why Shadow and Precise will almost always beat Sharpened/Lover setups in anything outside of Solo application where one may not have access to Major Breach at all.

Keep in mind that these suggestions are also hinging on the fact that you're optimizing CP allocation around your traits/gear/Mundus setups. It is EXTREMELY efficient to change CP around instead of using Traits/Mundus stones, as they can be fine tuned rather than relying on large chunks of stat increases.

Edit; You mentioned Sharp and Precise being extremely close. That is the entire purpose of the Horns of the Reach patch, almost all traits are going to be insanely close to one another and hard to pinpoint as we're moving into a situational bis era instead of a end all be all bis. The new trait rebalance and the CP rework of Morrowind have brought everything within ~5% DPS of one another, which is a god send for the health of the game.

DPShiro

Has anyone tried what trait combinations works best for a DW Magicka Templar?
Sharp+Precise...?

Br1ckst0n

DPShiro wrote: »

Has anyone tried what trait combinations works best for a DW Magicka Templar?
Sharp+Precise...?

For dual wield you always want 1x infused as it isnt halved like all other traits. As 2nd trait precise is probably the best.

Tanis-Stormbinder

Ok got that on dual wield one infused one Precise may be bis but what enchants would work best in a duel wield setup for a Magicka Templar?

Destruent

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Ok got that on dual wield one infused one Precise may be bis but what enchants would work best in a duel wield setup for a Magicka Templar?

Fire on one infused sword, wep/spelldmg on the other and lightning on your infused/precise backbar-inferno.

Just a guess, but i'm sure it's ok that way ^^

dpencil1

@Gilliamtherogue
Thanks for the response. You mentioned in your stream that you were optimizating your CP off of Asayre's webpage. Did you try working with his "Brute Force" button as well? Whenever I plug in my stats, assuming a lower uptime on Infused, Lover/Precise wins (and I am including Major Breach and about 40 points into Spell Erosion based on the page's recommendation). So, I guess I'm having a hard time reconciling that with your findings.

@Asayre would you be able to chime in on this?

P.S. I am making sure to not include any bonuses from mundus or traits when using the Brute Force button, then adding the suggested bonuses, recalculating using the normal calculation button, and applying those CP recommendations.

Gilliamtherogue

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue
Thanks for the response. You mentioned in your stream that you were optimizating your CP off of Asayre's webpage. Did you try working with his "Brute Force" button as well? Whenever I plug in my stats, assuming a lower uptime on Infused, Lover/Precise wins (and I am including Major Breach and about 40 points into Spell Erosion based on the page's recommendation). So, I guess I'm having a hard time reconciling that with your findings.

@Asayre would you be able to chime in on this?

P.S. I am making sure to not include any bonuses from mundus or traits when using the Brute Force button, then adding the suggested bonuses, recalculating using the normal calculation button, and applying those CP recommendations.

I used the Morrowind CP optimizer and changed the variables with inputs of the new values and then tested in game rather than using the simulator.

Asayre

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

The reason I'm asking is its very easy on my hybrid to get high weapon crit and reasonable spell crit. I primarily cast spells, but it'd be nothing to get around 60ish weapon crit and still not take the thief mundus stone. What I am trying to balance though is since I'd be casting my stamina based skills around 30% of the time, but they would be in the 50-60% chance to crit while my spells would be 40-50% would the value of daggers be worth it with infused paired with say a poison or fire glyph. I am using a set that procs off of crits done and I'm focusing more on base damage than crit damage, so I don't want to start trading other sources of damage to drive crits through the roof.

I just wanted to get your input on the enchantment side so I could use it as a input as I start to DPS test and refine my stats and rotation.

Sorry if I'm being a bit slow but are you asking if using a damaging glyph like poison or fire be better than using a glyph of weapon damage?

If yes then

For single target a glyph of poison/fireis pretty decent and has good chance of being better a glyph of weapon damage but your weaving needs to be very good to benefit properly from it.

An infused staff with a glyph of weapon damage will give 452 spell damage. Assuming 44k magicka and 3k spell damage, this would correspond to a 6.3% damage increase. In comparison an infused staff with a glyph of fire damage will do 3294 damage (i think, i can’t craft things on PTS and am just generating item codes) every 2 seconds. This damage will be modified by damage done, crit and resistance. But let’s go with the base value and see what modifier is require for it to be competitive with the glyph of weapon damage. Let’s assume you do 40k damage per second, then this amounts to a DPS increase of 4.1% meaning you would need a modifier of 1.54 to be comparable to a glyph of weapon damage. If you have used my CP calculator, we typically get a function value of 1.6 – 2.0 depending on stuff you put in. This is the average modifier, the modifier will be slightly different for a glyph (as it is direct damage) but it would like it has decent chance of being better than a glyph of weapon damage.

Side bonuses as you noted above are that it can marginally increase proc chance of certain sets and can provide secondary effects.

if not would you mind rephrasing?

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue
Thanks for the response. You mentioned in your stream that you were optimizating your CP off of Asayre's webpage. Did you try working with his "Brute Force" button as well? Whenever I plug in my stats, assuming a lower uptime on Infused, Lover/Precise wins (and I am including Major Breach and about 40 points into Spell Erosion based on the page's recommendation). So, I guess I'm having a hard time reconciling that with your findings.

@Asayre would you be able to chime in on this?

P.S. I am making sure to not include any bonuses from mundus or traits when using the Brute Force button, then adding the suggested bonuses, recalculating using the normal calculation button, and applying those CP recommendations.

I don't follow Gilliam's youtube stream so I don't know his train of thought but perhaps it is important to consider errors of my methods and obtaining parses in game.

When you say you are having problems reconciling the differences perhaps you need to note the magnitude of the problem. If we examine the default output of my calculator, we see that Lover/Infused gives a DPS metric of 159358 and Shadow/Sharpened gives a DPS metric of 157569. This is a 1.1% difference. The real expected difference would probably be lower than this because few people will obtain 100% uptime on the glyph of weapon damage and weapon swapping will dilute this effect a bit more. My average method has a tendency to inflate differences based on my assumptions. We could adjust some of these assumptions but then fewer people might agree on a particular point. There is no real Schelling point on what is the average Major Breach uptime and this would lead to difficulty in presenting broad conclusions. This is why I tend to assume 100% uptime on most debuffs/buffs. If we ran a full simulation we could get more accurate numbers but simulations are more computationally costly and not as readily available. But even simulations would have problems with what buff uptimes you actually have. But for now let's just agree that the difference is 1%. If a player is doing 40k DPS with Lover/Infused then the expected DPS with Shadow/Sharpened is 39.6k

What kind of parse data is then required to reliably observe this difference? From my previous simulations, I have come to expect a standard deviation of about 1k. This is based on DPS on a 3M HP skeleton dummy. Let's assume that this is the standard deviation of an ideal player. In order to observe the 1% difference (or 400 DPS) with 95% confidence, we would need to do 25 trials to get the standard error of the mean down to 200. I don't think this scenario of having a standard deviation of 1k and doing 25 trials is impractical so to me this means that the DPS difference that you are looking at is practically unobservable.

To some extent, what I am trying to say that I can calculate to a whole lot of significant figures but that does not mean it is meaningful.

The other rather trivial answer is that Gilliam's and my initial conditions are distinct leading to different results which is what we would expect since the differences between trait and mundus are comparatively smaller than on Live.

Samwell Slayer

As usual, love the work you put into it. Just one fundamental mistake:

When you weight your metrics for say staff attacks, you need to weight the changes in them, not their raw values. Otherwise, you are adding together things with different units. The 40 in the staff attacks over weight light and heavy attacks greatly in the metric! For instance, the way you have it now, somebody wil always have a higher metric if they do only staff attacks!

For instance, somebody with 1 sd and say 5 magika (what? I don't feel like using a calculator) would have a metric of

5+10*1=15

if they only used skills and

5+40*1=45

If they only used staff attacks.
Suggesting that the latter is 3x better! (This reminds me of beta where everybody just light attacked!).

I can explain why this fails and how to correct it in more detail if you're interested.

Asayre

@Samwell Slayer
I feel we had this conversation before. If I recall the proper solution sounded like too much work and I was happy with just using it as is for comparing identical rotations as opposed to different rotations.

Ollowaiin2

Hello Asayre,
it's nice to see, that you spend much time in calculating stuff, just do your thing. But
I think you're too far away from the "reality" of the game.
For example: -I stopped reading for two minutes after reading Breton sorcerer. (High elf is better, compare the passives)
-I've red your article and you're not even testing the sets People are using now (the big battle: necropotence or netch's touch)
-I don't even want to start and look for mistakes in the calculation, because they are there (1 second, cp?)

maybe log on your character and just Play the game, even if you loose 2% dps? I think you loose the Goal of a game -> have fun

GilGalad

Ollowaiin2 wrote: »

Hello Asayre,
it's nice to see, that you spend much time in calculating stuff, just do your thing. But
I think you're too far away from the "reality" of the game.
For example: -I stopped reading for two minutes after reading Breton sorcerer. (High elf is better, compare the passives)
-I've red your article and you're not even testing the sets People are using now (the big battle: necropotence or netch's touch)
-I don't even want to start and look for mistakes in the calculation, because they are there (1 second, cp?)

maybe log on your character and just Play the game, even if you loose 2% dps? I think you loose the Goal of a game -> have fun

I'm sorry but this is a thread about theorycrafting, so if you don't have anything constructive to add, why don't you just log on your character and just play the game?
I mean even if you loose 2% DPS by not being able to look pass the presented examples and to use the provided tools to your advantage...

Samwell Slayer

catch22atplay wrote: »

Since i use different calculations based on my testing i come up with different numbers. Are they are not the same as the Ops. But let's ignore this for a moment. The Mage mundus is underrated by quite a bit. So ignoring my spreadsheet here's actual hits with mage and apprentice. Note that i'm using 4 divines and 3 infused on my gear as you should.

Mage vs Apprentice with Mage being the baseline
3218 vs 3223=0.16% increase for Apprentice
2440 vs 2447=0.29% increase for Apprentice
11319 vs 11347=0.25% increase for Apprentice
4767 vs 4486=6.26% increase for Mage

Note the last is my pet and pets Pulse does not increase damage with weapon power and instead increases via magicka.

Now let's say 87% of my damage is non pet and 13% oh my damage is from my one pets pulse. I'll average out the non pet damage to .25% increased damage.

So for Apprentice we get .25%*.87=0.22% for non pet stuff

For Mage we get 6.26%*.13=0.81%, 0.81% for the pet

So for 1 pet Mage beats Apprentice with a difference of 0.59%

Also note that i'm using bound aegis and inner light for the extra % increase to magicka and also the mettle passive and i'm using necropotence and Julianas. Results for the Mage would be less otherwise but it'll still beat Apprentice.

As regards the Thief vs the Shadow this depends on what your crit% is and what your crit damage% is. As an example with my gear as previously noted i have as follows.

The Shadow 52.5% crit and 85.6% crit damage
The Thief 64.2% crit and 70% crit damage

The results are the exact same and i mean exactly. If you use cp to increase crit damage more then the Thief starts pulling ahead. Now let's say you swap in a helm or whatever that increases crit% then the Shadow pulls ahead.

Enough of my ranting for now except to say i get as follows. Ignoring The Lover (penetration) atm as i haven't done the math for it yet. Again this is for my gear etc.


The Thief and The Shadow tied for #1
The Mage #3
The Apprentice #4

Penetration will be somewhere in there. I just don't know where yet. If i use Precise on one of my weapons then The Shadow takes the #1 spot for me and The Thief drops to #2.

Yeah, you're saying the same thing I am in my post. Magika gets grossly underestimated in his calculations.

PS4_ZeColmeia

Asayre wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

The reason I'm asking is its very easy on my hybrid to get high weapon crit and reasonable spell crit. I primarily cast spells, but it'd be nothing to get around 60ish weapon crit and still not take the thief mundus stone. What I am trying to balance though is since I'd be casting my stamina based skills around 30% of the time, but they would be in the 50-60% chance to crit while my spells would be 40-50% would the value of daggers be worth it with infused paired with say a poison or fire glyph. I am using a set that procs off of crits done and I'm focusing more on base damage than crit damage, so I don't want to start trading other sources of damage to drive crits through the roof.

I just wanted to get your input on the enchantment side so I could use it as a input as I start to DPS test and refine my stats and rotation.

Sorry if I'm being a bit slow but are you asking if using a damaging glyph like poison or fire be better than using a glyph of weapon damage?

If yes then

For single target a glyph of poison/fireis pretty decent and has good chance of being better a glyph of weapon damage but your weaving needs to be very good to benefit properly from it.

An infused staff with a glyph of weapon damage will give 452 spell damage. Assuming 44k magicka and 3k spell damage, this would correspond to a 6.3% damage increase. In comparison an infused staff with a glyph of fire damage will do 3294 damage (i think, i can’t craft things on PTS and am just generating item codes) every 2 seconds. This damage will be modified by damage done, crit and resistance. But let’s go with the base value and see what modifier is require for it to be competitive with the glyph of weapon damage. Let’s assume you do 40k damage per second, then this amounts to a DPS increase of 4.1% meaning you would need a modifier of 1.54 to be comparable to a glyph of weapon damage. If you have used my CP calculator, we typically get a function value of 1.6 – 2.0 depending on stuff you put in. This is the average modifier, the modifier will be slightly different for a glyph (as it is direct damage) but it would like it has decent chance of being better than a glyph of weapon damage.

Side bonuses as you noted above are that it can marginally increase proc chance of certain sets and can provide secondary effects.

if not would you mind rephrasing?

so that pretty much answered my question. Just one more to confirm, enchants crit off of your highest crit chance correct? Example ice enchant would crit off of weapon crit if it was higher than spell crit.

Septimus_Magna

I assume Spinners useless for pve now the 5pc bonus is nerfed to 3450 penetration?

And what about Mother Sorrow? Will it be useful now the 5pc bonus is buffed to 2470 spell crit?

Sanctuary

LilySix wrote: »

Hi !

Just to make sure I understand things the right way.

For raid groups DDs, they now have to use infused trait and not precise ?

It's still unclear. Gilliam's ingame testings and Asayre's calculations seem to give different results. Knowing ZOS, i'll tend to follow the former.

C'est encore sujet à débat. Les tests sur mannequin de Gilliam et les calculs d'Asayre semblent donner des résultats différents. De plus les résultats d'Asayre sont obtenus avec la pierre de l'amant tandis que Gilliam a testé 4 ou 5 pierres. Enfin avec ce dont est capable ZOS, je préfère me fier aux tests réels. Donc pour l'instant je pense m'orienter vers PRÉCIS + OMBRE.


It is still subject to debate. Gilliam's dummy tests and Asayre calculations seem to give different results. In addition the Asayre results are obtained with the lover's stone while Gilliam tested 4 or 5 stones. Finally with what is capable of ZOS, I prefer to rely on the actual tests. So for now I'm thinking of moving to PRECISE + OMBRE.

[Translation added for clarity]

Septimus_Magna

Sanctuary wrote: »

LilySix wrote: »

Hi !

Just to make sure I understand things the right way.

For raid groups DDs, they now have to use infused trait and not precise ?

It's still unclear. Gilliam's ingame testings and Asayre's calculations seem to give different results. Knowing ZOS, i'll tend to follow the former.

C'est encore sujet à débat. Les tests sur mannequin de Gilliam et les calculs d'Asayre semblent donner des résultats différents. De plus les résultats d'Asayre sont obtenus avec la pierre de l'amant tandis que Gilliam a testé 4 ou 5 pierres. Enfin avec ce dont est capable ZOS, je préfère me fier aux tests réels. Donc pour l'instant je pense m'orienter vers PRÉCIS + OMBRE.

Thats because the uptime for infused determines the effectiveness. In Asayre's calculations the uptime is optimal (or close to optimal) which I believe wasnt the case in Gilliams test.

Most players are probably better off with precise for groups and sharpened/charged for solo.