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ZOS NERF: Earthtear Cavern Changes... Noooooooooo :(

  • VoodooPlatypus
    VoodooPlatypus
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    bareheiny wrote: »
    I was looking forward to the new Balmora costume...now I don’t want to get for fear that the boob window will be patched at a later date :(

    People will buy it, grateful to have "mature, yet tasteful" costume options. Later they will log in and the cutout section in the front will be filled with a gray brick texture to match the windows in Mathiisen Manor. :disappointed:
    Edited by VoodooPlatypus on June 27, 2017 12:32PM
  • Zaldan
    Zaldan
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    Erraln wrote: »
    MacCait wrote: »
    Erraln wrote: »
    Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

    So what was the core issue? Were people not supposed to access the Khajiit area outside the Earthear walls (why is it there?), or was there something worse going on? People able to take objects they hadn't bought, or something? What was going on that reducing size/ value of purchased items was the best solution?

    What khajiit area?

    This one. It's on the same map as Earthtear, or was on Homestead PTS at any rate.

    umm wonder if this indicates that player houses share an instance? could explain the need for such low player caps on housing to maintain performance if there's actually more than one house in the instance.
    Edited by Zaldan on June 27, 2017 12:32PM
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
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    aka.@Cuthceol
  • MacCait
    MacCait
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    Zaldan wrote: »
    Erraln wrote: »
    MacCait wrote: »
    Erraln wrote: »
    Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

    So what was the core issue? Were people not supposed to access the Khajiit area outside the Earthear walls (why is it there?), or was there something worse going on? People able to take objects they hadn't bought, or something? What was going on that reducing size/ value of purchased items was the best solution?

    What khajiit area?

    This one. It's on the same map as Earthtear, or was on Homestead PTS at any rate.

    umm wonder if this indicates that player houses share an instance? could explain the need for such low player caps on housing to maintain performance if there's actually more than one house in the instance.

    You can't see this suggested property from any window area of the Cavern. If it is indeed on the same map as suggested, I don't know how you could tell. You certainly would not be able to access it AT ALL.

    Anyone who own the Cavern can tell you there are areas INSIDE the Cavern that you cannot even access because of the invisible walls. Any suggestion that you can escape is therefore complete garbage and just a lame excuse as a pretext to opt out of fixing the mistake someone at ZOS made.

    With all the things that do need fixing in this game (or even in the Cavern alone), this absurdity shows that time has been spent doing nothing but upsetting players with unnecessary changes that fix nothing and do nothing. Just a cosmetic change because someone at ZOS felt like it.
  • makerofthings
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    It just seems to me that the company could have reverted back and made some paying customers very happy. It would have been a better PR move on their part and I am sure they would have benefited with positive forum posts. Maybe they are playing the numbers game, perhaps they figured only a small amount of players would be affected by this, so who cares. However, people who are able to place down $100-$150 for pixels may have the means to plop down more, so perhaps they should care.

    Now if they could just pull some crowns out from where they found their lame excuse, I would be very happy indeed. Though they may have bricked up that orifice as well.
  • bunnytrix
    bunnytrix
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    They have purposely changed an item that was purchased by many people for $120. That's like, more than buying the actual game and all of its DLCs.
    That item is now not what those people bought.

    Some people spent hours/days/weeks decorating that item and found fun and enjoyment from it. To have it all taken away at a whim from a ZOS developer.

    They did not inform people in advance about the changes.
    Then after 4 weeks decide on the lamest BS excuse they could come up with as a reason.
    Where is the respect for the players?
    Oh of course it's ZOS. there is absolutely no respect. Not even for those who spend loads of money to support the game.

    Everyone who bought that item is entitled to a full refund if they so desire.

    You can't just decide to change things after people have paid money for it. It is very very unethical, and very disgusting in every possible way.
    Shame on you ZOS.
  • billp_ESO
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    The moral of this story: don't spend crowns on any cosmetic items unless you are willing to see those items changed without notice.
  • rhapsodious
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    Gina, thanks for replying. I know that you're the messenger here and I have no intentions of shooting you, but it's pretty disconcerting that it takes 3 weeks for the team to sift through the commits made to master/the file that contains the (meta)data for the cavern to figure out who changed it and why. And that this is the approach taken rather than simply something like the Battlegrounds' boomerang ring - where even if you find yourself out of the ring prior to the match starting, you get thrown back into the ring forcibly. I know you don't want to advertise "hey, you guys can totally get out of the map here", but there's gotta be more elegant and less intrusive solutions, no?
    Edited by rhapsodious on June 27, 2017 1:58PM
  • Faylis
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    New crown store item next week:

    Earthtear expansion! Enjoy more of your favorite home just 5,000 crowns!
  • Feanor
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    And you thought the Great Elk couldn't be exceeded as the biggest crown store meltdown of all time. ZOS always has one more up the sleeve. They never fail to surprise.
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  • AdamBourke
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    I always thought that public image was supposed to be important to companies these days?

    I guess not.
    PS4 - EU

    Please put the Eyevea/EarthForge wayshrines back on the map?
  • Hallothiel
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    Imo I think the reply from Zos is utter crap.

    Tried out Earthtear to see if it was worth the considerable dosh and so, being me, attempted to get places not obviously accessible.

    Could not get out past the walls in the water. Tried very hard - in fact got stuck & had to be 'rescued'. So the excuse given for the change strikes me as complete guff.

    And I would like a statement from Zos about this access to places 'should not be' - just precisely where are those places? I have built so can get onto thd roof of Hunding's - is that 'allowed' or am I going to log in one day and find I can't?

    You really really really need to work on your PR / customer relation skills & do some serious damage limitation.
  • SFDB
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    To me, the only logical explanations are either:
    1) whoever originally finished Earthtear sent the incomplete version to be submitted, then the completed one was put out with the later update
    2) whoever worked on Earthtear had to hit the deadline, and "finished" it later (George Lucas Syndrome)
  • BigBragg
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    I'm not big into housing, but man this sucks for everyone who purchased this cavern. Some BSery is afoot.
  • Dayth
    Dayth
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    Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

    Sorry but that is absolutely ridiculous, instead of simply extending invisible barriers quite a few building areas were removed and you're telling us we won't be getting them back? Earthtear Cavern is rather expensive, one location that actually sold me on buying the property has been removed.
    Honestly, I really hope you reconsider reverting the changes and just use invisible barriers because this is really disheartening, I didn't buy this home with the intention of you encasing chunks of my furniture in rock and telling me to get used to it.

    I don't want to ask for a refund, I want my home to be restored. Please just stick up invisible barriers instead.
  • Lady_Rosabella
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    https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/6j98p5/pceua_warning_on_random_housing_changes_in_eso/

    Here's a link to one post on Reddit about the changes. It hasn't been updated yet, but I'm sure it will be soon. I've been contacted by two people who are writing an article about this and I will let everyone know when I get the link to the articles.
  • vyndral13preub18_ESO
    vyndral13preub18_ESO
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    Muttsmutt wrote: »
    hahaha, changing a product after it was sold? really? who sat down at their desk and thought, "man, earthtear cavern really could use some more rocks!"

    I would Imagine he was sitting next to the guy that said, "Man, what Earthtear cavern could really use, is some rain!"
  • atlgirl29_ESO
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    I've spent the last hour reading through all of these posts and it's really disheartening to see what has been done to the actual player base besides the unwanted changes to the cavern (other houses, bugged or not), the length of time for a reply, and 'what' is being done about it.. from what I gather from the thread, there was talk of what options to take and now there seem to be no options at all for the players since there is no revert nor refund... they are just stuck with it.

    I have actually been saving up my monthly crowns to buy the craven, but I now to refuse to buy anything from the store because the company has shown that they will in fact makes changes to something at their whim, regardless of the 'need' for it or not and never mind the fact the paying customer ends up with something totally different from what they originally bought. I've always been positive about supporting ESO and using the crown store since the game is FTP but I'm really considering canceling my sub because I can't support a company that has no regard to their paying customers. (Regardless if you sub or not, you had to buy the crowns to use in the store so you're still a paying customer.)
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    psychotrip wrote: »
    reiverx wrote: »
    It could well be that they genuinely can't revert the changes because of said reasons.

    However, because ZOS's reputation has taken a huge nosedive lately, nobody trusts them.
    I'm no coder, but how is this not as simple as removing the boulder and adding an invisible wall to the place characters are allegedly getting out of bounds? If whole blocked off area was causing problems, why should we accept it being cut off rather than patched up? This is just bizzare.
    Because it's clear that you were never supposed to be able to go there in the first place. I take Gina's comment to mean that's the bit that's out-of-bounds. Anything beyond that which you could have also got to is irrelevant, because you're not supposed to be able to get there in the first place.

    What they should consider doing now, given that people have been able to get into and furnish an unplayable area, is spend a bit of time making that area playable so it can be opened up again.
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  • Astarana
    Astarana
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    Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

    My husband works for software company and if some "fix" or any code change "goes live sooner than expected" they have to issue emergency and send notifications to the customers explaining what went wrong.
    I just don't get ZOS. So much potential and such poor execution.
  • Faylis
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    psychotrip wrote: »
    reiverx wrote: »
    It could well be that they genuinely can't revert the changes because of said reasons.

    However, because ZOS's reputation has taken a huge nosedive lately, nobody trusts them.
    I'm no coder, but how is this not as simple as removing the boulder and adding an invisible wall to the place characters are allegedly getting out of bounds? If whole blocked off area was causing problems, why should we accept it being cut off rather than patched up? This is just bizzare.
    Because it's clear that you were never supposed to be able to go there in the first place.

    Where did you draw that conclusion?

    Hey everyone, calm down, the community ambassador says it was clear what you bought had limits that you couldn't see until it was made clear to you by a WTF patch..

    Nothing more to see, move along.

  • MacCait
    MacCait
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    psychotrip wrote: »
    reiverx wrote: »
    It could well be that they genuinely can't revert the changes because of said reasons.

    However, because ZOS's reputation has taken a huge nosedive lately, nobody trusts them.
    I'm no coder, but how is this not as simple as removing the boulder and adding an invisible wall to the place characters are allegedly getting out of bounds? If whole blocked off area was causing problems, why should we accept it being cut off rather than patched up? This is just bizzare.
    Because it's clear that you were never supposed to be able to go there in the first place. I take Gina's comment to mean that's the bit that's out-of-bounds. Anything beyond that which you could have also got to is irrelevant, because you're not supposed to be able to get there in the first place.

    What they should consider doing now, given that people have been able to get into and furnish an unplayable area, is spend a bit of time making that area playable so it can be opened up again.

    Hi.

    I disagree that it's '"it's clear that you were never supposed to be able to go there in the first place".

    Why is that clear?

    First of all we are talking about two seperate areas... However, for both areas:

    1. It was an area inside the cavern
    2. It was an area that you just walk into the exact same as all areas in the Cavern. You don't glitch anything, you don't jump or caste some kind of skill, you just walk. If you look directly at it, you can walk into it. Most people didn't see it as it was in peripheral vision.
    3. No one has ever stated these areas are an 'unplayable area'
    4. What exactly defines an "unplayable area"? I understand that to be any area outside of the intended instance. Not areas INSIDE and instance! How do we define which areas are no go zone's? ...No don;t go over there by the waterfall that's an unintended area!!
    5. there are other areas in the cavern that clearly are not working as intended as there are invidible walls all over the place.


    To say these areas were unintended areas is just a ridiculous explanation.
  • Osteos
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    This whole thing stinks. Planning changes without notifying buyers. Having those changes go live without notifying buyers. Taking weeks to respond to buyers concerns over changes. Then basically telling buyers tough luck.

    I think everyone who purchased the Cavern should get a full refund.
    DAGGERFALL COVENANT
    NA PC
    Former Vehemence Member
    Onistka Valerius <> Artemis Renault <> Gonk gra-Ugrash <> Karietta <> Zercon at-Rusa <> Genevieve Renault <> Ktaka <> Brenlyn Renault
  • makerofthings
    makerofthings
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    I am not sure that it really is clear. It sounds more like they could not be bothered and cooked a lame response.
    A real F rank U nderwood response.
  • Rouven
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    I guess one would not expect
    I am not sure that it really is clear. It sounds more like they could not be bothered and cooked a lame response.
    A real F rank U nderwood response.

    Are you saying they deliberately gave Frank those initials? >:)

    I'm usually quiet when it comes to these things, but it seems to me that a product at that price range should not have such a flaw and if - then it should be fixed in favour of the customer and with a little more information flow beforehand.
    Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett
  • Smmokkee
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    Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

    This is funny because people have been complaining about people glitching out of the map in trials and, you guys have done nothing about it. Who cares if people found in unplayable area in housing?? And the fact that unplayable areas are still accessible in trials where you stand to gain something is ridiculous but, "oh no jumping johnny can still glitch himself out of his cave.. gotta fix that real quick." If this is the real reason it was fixed then make yourselves useful and fix the rest of the areas you can jump out.

    I don't know if there is any other way to put this other than you guys are incompetent, random, unprofessional and ultimately ***.


    Also whats with all the changes and the half-assed excuse that we forgot to say something before it went live. Are you effin kidding me? Lol that is just pathetic.
  • MacCait
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    Wait... How does the addition of the single floating rock in the lake, stop people from getting outside the cavern?????
  • psychotrip
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    Smmokkee wrote: »
    Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

    This is funny because people have been complaining about people glitching out of the map in trials and, you guys have done nothing about it. Who cares if people found in unplayable area in housing?? And the fact that unplayable areas are still accessible in trials where you stand to gain something is ridiculous but, "oh no jumping johnny can still glitch himself out of his cave.. gotta fix that real quick." If this is the real reason it was fixed then make yourselves useful and fix the rest of the areas you can jump out.

    I don't know if there is any other way to put this other than you guys are incompetent, random, unprofessional and ultimately ***.


    Also whats with all the changes and the half-assed excuse that we forgot to say something before it went live. Are you effin kidding me? Lol that is just pathetic.

    While I wouldn't have said it so...passionately, this is definitely not okay.
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • Ihatenightblades
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    1mirg wrote: »
    Moloch1514 wrote: »
    Considering the price was absurd as-is, it was really a low blow by the ZOS team to do this. The feedback/reaction from Gina on the issue almost makes it seem like a designer with access to housing went rogue! Can't believe they wouldn't have known about this.
    Zos has a issue with overpricing everything in their crown store. The good large houses cost more than the morrowind expansion. Which kind of makes you wonder if ZoS knows how to price things. If the houses cost only up to 30$ at the highest. I'd be buying them all, hence they'll get more money from them. But as it stands. the prices in that store are quite ludicrous, to say the least.

    As for what I've read here from @ZOS_GinaBruno and others. It's clear to me that ZoS doesn't think to hard about items in the crown store. But that's just my take on it.

    Ever think they overprice houses because they dont believe every player in game should be able to afford a mansion?

    And tbh its working i have over 1000 guildies combined in all my guilds and i only know a handful of players that own mansions.

    Plus this is a video game where you can buy houses with Gold. If you spent a few weeks grinding morrowind motifs sets pets and costumes you can make 2 million easy in a 2 weeks. I made 2 million since morrowind came out and im barely farming.

    As for other overpriced items i cant speak for since i cant think of any besides some mounts i seen for 4k crowns LOL.

    Edited by Ihatenightblades on June 27, 2017 7:25PM
  • ixie
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    psychotrip wrote: »
    reiverx wrote: »
    It could well be that they genuinely can't revert the changes because of said reasons.

    However, because ZOS's reputation has taken a huge nosedive lately, nobody trusts them.
    I'm no coder, but how is this not as simple as removing the boulder and adding an invisible wall to the place characters are allegedly getting out of bounds? If whole blocked off area was causing problems, why should we accept it being cut off rather than patched up? This is just bizzare.
    Because it's clear that you were never supposed to be able to go there in the first place. I take Gina's comment to mean that's the bit that's out-of-bounds. Anything beyond that which you could have also got to is irrelevant, because you're not supposed to be able to get there in the first place.

    What they should consider doing now, given that people have been able to get into and furnish an unplayable area, is spend a bit of time making that area playable so it can be opened up again.

    If it's true that people were never supposed to be able to go there in the first place, that indicates the cavern was released unfinished.

    I don't own the cavern but I sympathise with those that do
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  • makerofthings
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    I, for one, appreciate the support of fellows players whom even though this does not affect them directly have been there for this issue.

    Thank you.

    BTW, anyone want to purchase the Earthtear Cavern from me super cheap? :)
This discussion has been closed.