ZOS NERF: Earthtear Cavern Changes... Noooooooooo :(

Zhaedri

What an interesting read. Glad I didn't buy the cave. I was very sorely tempted to, but decided against it as it was a /lot/ of money to drop on a digital area.

psychotrip

Zhaedri wrote: »

What an interesting read. Glad I didn't buy the cave. I was very sorely tempted to, but decided against it as it was a /lot/ of money to drop on a digital area.

Isn't it, like, $130?

MacCait

Enodoc wrote: »

Gina's comment says they closed off an area that was not intended for use. Thus it is clear you were never supposed to be able to go there.

Hi again. I'm in the process of putting all evidence together... However, just going over Gina's comment, I have noticed that you have paraphrased her and thus changed the meaning of ZOS's statement. I'm pointing this out here, not as an argument, or attack, but just to highlight to everyone concerned with this debate, that this is not what was said. It's important to keep on track with specificity.

Gina never stated they closed off an area inside the Cavern that was not intended for use. The statement was "this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home".

So, this clarification brings an end to the argument or debate about the unplayable area being inside the base. It is NOT. ZOS has declared the unplayable area was OUTSIDE the home, not inside.

So, although I will present photo's and video as soon as I can get to that, what we have here is a statement that the so called intentional fix was to stop players getting OUTSIDE the home, not to stop players accessing any part of the home inside the home. I personally believe this is very transparent BS, a lie so they don't need to be bothered with reverting what they have done. However, if we hold them true to their word (believing there was somehow a hole within the great many invisible walls litterally everywehere), their fix for this issue has actually taken away a lot of PLAYABLE building area from inside the Cavern in two locations. This in my opinion not only marks their statement as unsatisfactory and transparent, but also shows that we should still ask for this to be reconsidered in good faith to the community of players who have spent actual money on purchasing this from crown store.

The ZOS statement also does not explain the sudden appearance of the floating rock, which is just silly and annoying, and makes no sense. Left behind by the ZOS worker who made these other changes. The statement also does not address the constant rain INSIDE the Cavern, which is something that only began after Morrowind patch. And does not address the constant requests to a fix to the over zealous invisible walls that actually stop acess to playable areas WITHIN the home.

I will present more evidence later, but at this point I am asking ZOS to please re-look at this and reconsider reverting these changes or re-visiting the Cavern and making some adjustments to bring resolution to the areas concerned.

I loved this game, and I was impressed with ZOS when I first joined. Over the last year I have lost all faith. I don't want it to be this way. I would happily xcontinue to sub, play the game, spend money on crowns, but NOT if this current trend of attitude towards the game and it's players continues

Faylis

MacCait wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Gina's comment says they closed off an area that was not intended for use. Thus it is clear you were never supposed to be able to go there.

Hi again. I'm in the process of putting all evidence together... However, just going over Gina's comment, I have noticed that you have paraphrased her and thus changed the meaning of ZOS's statement. I'm pointing this out here, not as an argument, or attack, but just to highlight to everyone concerned with this debate, that this is not what was said. It's important to keep on track with specificity.

Gina never stated they closed off an area inside the Cavern that was not intended for use. The statement was "this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home".

So, this clarification brings an end to the argument or debate about the unplayable area being inside the base. It is NOT. ZOS has declared the unplayable area was OUTSIDE the home, not inside.

And boom goes the dynamite.

Stopnaggin

Skcarkden wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

Which area outside of the house was it giving access to, and how? Why is that even an issue? Why do far more serious issues get ignored while a $150 item has part of it removed for a bogus excuse as the *only* time something is ever supposedly "fixed" ?

Refunds for all the people ZOS scammed?

Honestly i very much doubt that's the true answer for the changes

There were areas in the cavern that you could get outside of the playable area. I have done it. With that being said, I don't like the fact they changed it to this extent. An invisible wall would have fixed the problem, add a pile of boulders

MacCait

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

Which area outside of the house was it giving access to, and how? Why is that even an issue? Why do far more serious issues get ignored while a $150 item has part of it removed for a bogus excuse as the *only* time something is ever supposedly "fixed" ?

Refunds for all the people ZOS scammed?

Honestly i very much doubt that's the true answer for the changes

There were areas in the cavern that you could get outside of the playable area. I have done it. With that being said, I don't like the fact they changed it to this extent. An invisible wall would have fixed the problem, add a pile of boulders

Hey. I tried every nook and cranny and I found just one spot on the North of the Cavern where you could fall into the water and be eaten by slaughterfish, which I thought was actually cool. You could not leave the playable instance whatsoever. After the fall, whatever health I had left was eaten out by slaughterfish. However, this was not the area effected. In the areas changed, there was no way out whatsoever.

Can you be specific and tell us what area specifically you could get out of the Cavern from, and how far could you go? Otherwise it's just speculation and a random comment.

Thanks

atlgirl29_ESO

psychotrip wrote: »

Zhaedri wrote: »

What an interesting read. Glad I didn't buy the cave. I was very sorely tempted to, but decided against it as it was a /lot/ of money to drop on a digital area.

Isn't it, like, $130?

13,000 crowns unfurnished, 16,300 furnished.. it's roughly $130 furnished. Edit: (not including if you bought extra furniture packs via the crown store to decorate)

psychotrip

atlgirl29_ESO wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Zhaedri wrote: »

What an interesting read. Glad I didn't buy the cave. I was very sorely tempted to, but decided against it as it was a /lot/ of money to drop on a digital area.

Isn't it, like, $130?

13,000 crowns unfurnished, 16,300 furnished.. it's roughly $130 furnished. Edit: (not including if you bought extra furniture packs via the crown store to decorate)

So about $163 furnished? Jesus Christ. That's like...obscure Korean MMO levels of money.

Arkvoril

Seems like we aren't the only ones getting the cold shoulder. In fact if I understand the situation right these guys are being ignored as well and can not play "Morrowind" at all. I would ask for some of you to read and comment. This no communications and letting things die has to stop. They hope issues just go away. Keep on posting.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/350056/ps4-morrowind-not-available-in-south-east-asia-market/p1

I still love the game......but ZO$ has to step up and correct some issues with a little communication to its base. I would not think that is asking too much.

Eddyble

To make sure I understand the situation correctly, I'm going to analogize the thread...

I go and look at a condo or house for sale @ a price of $130,000, it is shown to me and listed at 1300 sq. ft. and I verify this by exploring all rooms, closets etc., I like it , choose to buy it and begin to move in. 1 month later, I come home from work to find a storage closet is now gone. Like, the door is gone and it has been dry walled over. Thus making my home now 1200 sq. ft. and ~1 month after that I'm contacted after multiple inquiries and told that the area was not even supposed to have been built.

If this is correct, then aside from all the legalities of actually changing something after the sale, wouldn't the seller also have to offer some sort of compensation for changing the amount of space offered for x price to a now smaller amount of space?

Note: I did not purchase this home myself (I went with the Cyrodiil Jungle House) but am sympathetic for those who did as this seems like a pile of BS. And if they are allowed to get away with it once, then where will the line be drawn? Aesthetic things like other homes, mounts, costumes? Or Even full areas of DLC/expansions? What if they decide to make a Trial smaller, or even bigger but flip it and say you have to pay more now?

Kind of scary as a consumer, and leaving me not wanting to spend money on anything else regarding the game.

Darlgon

Eddyble wrote: »

To make sure I understand the situation correctly, I'm going to analogize the thread...

I go and look at a condo or house for sale @ a price of $130,000, it is shown to me and listed at 1300 sq. ft. and I verify this by exploring all rooms, closets etc., I like it , choose to buy it and begin to move in. 1 month later, I come home from work to find a storage closet is now gone. Like, the door is gone and it has been dry walled over. Thus making my home now 1200 sq. ft. and ~1 month after that I'm contacted after multiple inquiries and told that the area was not even supposed to have been built.

If this is correct, then aside from all the legalities of actually changing something after the sale, wouldn't the seller also have to offer some sort of compensation for changing the amount of space offered for x price to a now smaller amount of space?

Note: I did not purchase this home myself (I went with the Cyrodiil Jungle House) but am sympathetic for those who did as this seems like a pile of BS. And if they are allowed to get away with it once, then where will the line be drawn? Aesthetic things like other homes, mounts, costumes? Or Even full areas of DLC/expansions? What if they decide to make a Trial smaller, or even bigger but flip it and say you have to pay more now?

Kind of scary as a consumer, and leaving me not wanting to spend money on anything else regarding the game.

First issue. You dont BUY anything on ESO. You sign a long term lease. ZoS still owns it. If they shut down the servers tomorrow.. no one will own any property in ESO.

As a landlord, I reserve the right to make changes to any property I for which, I own the title. Including removing a closet.

Magdalina

Darlgon wrote: »

Eddyble wrote: »

To make sure I understand the situation correctly, I'm going to analogize the thread...

I go and look at a condo or house for sale @ a price of $130,000, it is shown to me and listed at 1300 sq. ft. and I verify this by exploring all rooms, closets etc., I like it , choose to buy it and begin to move in. 1 month later, I come home from work to find a storage closet is now gone. Like, the door is gone and it has been dry walled over. Thus making my home now 1200 sq. ft. and ~1 month after that I'm contacted after multiple inquiries and told that the area was not even supposed to have been built.

If this is correct, then aside from all the legalities of actually changing something after the sale, wouldn't the seller also have to offer some sort of compensation for changing the amount of space offered for x price to a now smaller amount of space?

Note: I did not purchase this home myself (I went with the Cyrodiil Jungle House) but am sympathetic for those who did as this seems like a pile of BS. And if they are allowed to get away with it once, then where will the line be drawn? Aesthetic things like other homes, mounts, costumes? Or Even full areas of DLC/expansions? What if they decide to make a Trial smaller, or even bigger but flip it and say you have to pay more now?

Kind of scary as a consumer, and leaving me not wanting to spend money on anything else regarding the game.

First issue. You dont BUY anything on ESO. You sign a long term lease. ZoS still owns it. If they shut down the servers tomorrow.. no one will own any property in ESO.

As a landlord, I reserve the right to make changes to any property I for which, I own the title. Including removing a closet.

Just for the sake of argument - you might be well within your rights as a property owner to come and sneakily wall off the closet in the middle of the night with no warning whatsoever, however if you were to do that I could see the renting people moving out really quick and telling everyone they know to never rent anything from you again. Is that closet's privacy really worth that?

Side note, this may be legal(I can't believe they can possibly not allow refunds after changing things bought with real money. Is there seriously no law against that?) but it's just a very mean thing to do and just goes to show (for those who needed another proof) how much Zenimax cares for its customers, even the generously paying ones.

altemriel

Magdalina wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Eddyble wrote: »

To make sure I understand the situation correctly, I'm going to analogize the thread...

I go and look at a condo or house for sale @ a price of $130,000, it is shown to me and listed at 1300 sq. ft. and I verify this by exploring all rooms, closets etc., I like it , choose to buy it and begin to move in. 1 month later, I come home from work to find a storage closet is now gone. Like, the door is gone and it has been dry walled over. Thus making my home now 1200 sq. ft. and ~1 month after that I'm contacted after multiple inquiries and told that the area was not even supposed to have been built.

If this is correct, then aside from all the legalities of actually changing something after the sale, wouldn't the seller also have to offer some sort of compensation for changing the amount of space offered for x price to a now smaller amount of space?

Note: I did not purchase this home myself (I went with the Cyrodiil Jungle House) but am sympathetic for those who did as this seems like a pile of BS. And if they are allowed to get away with it once, then where will the line be drawn? Aesthetic things like other homes, mounts, costumes? Or Even full areas of DLC/expansions? What if they decide to make a Trial smaller, or even bigger but flip it and say you have to pay more now?

Kind of scary as a consumer, and leaving me not wanting to spend money on anything else regarding the game.

First issue. You dont BUY anything on ESO. You sign a long term lease. ZoS still owns it. If they shut down the servers tomorrow.. no one will own any property in ESO.

As a landlord, I reserve the right to make changes to any property I for which, I own the title. Including removing a closet.

Just for the sake of argument - you might be well within your rights as a property owner to come and sneakily wall off the closet in the middle of the night with no warning whatsoever, however if you were to do that I could see the renting people moving out really quick and telling everyone they know to never rent anything from you again. Is that closet's privacy really worth that?

Side note, this may be legal(I can't believe they can possibly not allow refunds after changing things bought with real money. Is there seriously no law against that?) but it's just a very mean thing to do and just goes to show (for those who needed another proof) how much Zenimax cares for its customers, even the generously paying ones.

MacCait

Darlgon wrote: »

Eddyble wrote: »

To make sure I understand the situation correctly, I'm going to analogize the thread...

I go and look at a condo or house for sale @ a price of $130,000, it is shown to me and listed at 1300 sq. ft. and I verify this by exploring all rooms, closets etc., I like it , choose to buy it and begin to move in. 1 month later, I come home from work to find a storage closet is now gone. Like, the door is gone and it has been dry walled over. Thus making my home now 1200 sq. ft. and ~1 month after that I'm contacted after multiple inquiries and told that the area was not even supposed to have been built.

If this is correct, then aside from all the legalities of actually changing something after the sale, wouldn't the seller also have to offer some sort of compensation for changing the amount of space offered for x price to a now smaller amount of space?

Note: I did not purchase this home myself (I went with the Cyrodiil Jungle House) but am sympathetic for those who did as this seems like a pile of BS. And if they are allowed to get away with it once, then where will the line be drawn? Aesthetic things like other homes, mounts, costumes? Or Even full areas of DLC/expansions? What if they decide to make a Trial smaller, or even bigger but flip it and say you have to pay more now?

Kind of scary as a consumer, and leaving me not wanting to spend money on anything else regarding the game.

First issue. You dont BUY anything on ESO. You sign a long term lease. ZoS still owns it. If they shut down the servers tomorrow.. no one will own any property in ESO.

As a landlord, I reserve the right to make changes to any property I for which, I own the title. Including removing a closet.

I think both analogies are good and correct... However, they are just analogies.

In reality the core issue is the trend towards the players in this game. The main issue is gamers have paid for something expensive, only to have it changed, without notice, reducing the amount of room you can build, when there are already issues with good building areas that are walled off by invisible walls and thus inaccesible, unplayable/un-useable. In a ESO home that has months of reported issues, where these issues could have been fixed, someone at ZOS decided to just go around changing other things on a whim.

Analogies and metaphors aside, the key points to this issue are:
1. The game in general has lots of things that need fixing... but haven't been fixed
2. This particular property has things reported that need fixing... but haven't been fixed
3. A ZOS staff member changed the property cosmetically, reducing building area, for no actual real reason... and when so many things in the game actually needed to be fixed (points 1 and 2). Added a rock in the middle of the water, which just serves no purpose and looks stupid as its floating. And the Cavern now rains INSIDE even though it has a ceiling. This was all a waste of time and serves no resl reason.
4. The issue was reported... but over 4 weeks, no one at ZOS seemed to know who at ZOS changed the property and why.
5. The issue went ignored for 4 weeks
6. Finally, because this thread was gaining more attention and not going away, a ZOS response was issued, that is transparent and holds no weight or logic. That the changes (ALL CHANGES affecting different areas) were intended, and made to stop people getting outside the home from ONE area into an unplayable area outside the home. Makes no sense why you would change multiple things if the reason you provide is to do with one area, that could just be fixed by another invisible wall, over all the other invisible walls.
7. Purchasers of this expensive crown-store-only purchase were informed that the changes will NOT be reverted.

If you wish to boil the whole thing down into a bite size chunk, it's this: Anything that anyone purchases from Crown Store with real money, can be changed at any time, at ZOS whim, and with complete disregard for how the player feels about it; and there is nothing the player can do or say about it.

That's not good business for ZOS, and does nothing for their ever eroding reputation.

Darlgon

MacCait wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Eddyble wrote: »

To make sure I understand the situation correctly, I'm going to analogize the thread...

I go and look at a condo or house for sale @ a price of $130,000, it is shown to me and listed at 1300 sq. ft. and I verify this by exploring all rooms, closets etc., I like it , choose to buy it and begin to move in. 1 month later, I come home from work to find a storage closet is now gone. Like, the door is gone and it has been dry walled over. Thus making my home now 1200 sq. ft. and ~1 month after that I'm contacted after multiple inquiries and told that the area was not even supposed to have been built.

If this is correct, then aside from all the legalities of actually changing something after the sale, wouldn't the seller also have to offer some sort of compensation for changing the amount of space offered for x price to a now smaller amount of space?

Note: I did not purchase this home myself (I went with the Cyrodiil Jungle House) but am sympathetic for those who did as this seems like a pile of BS. And if they are allowed to get away with it once, then where will the line be drawn? Aesthetic things like other homes, mounts, costumes? Or Even full areas of DLC/expansions? What if they decide to make a Trial smaller, or even bigger but flip it and say you have to pay more now?

Kind of scary as a consumer, and leaving me not wanting to spend money on anything else regarding the game.

First issue. You dont BUY anything on ESO. You sign a long term lease. ZoS still owns it. If they shut down the servers tomorrow.. no one will own any property in ESO.

As a landlord, I reserve the right to make changes to any property I for which, I own the title. Including removing a closet.

I think both analogies are good and correct... However, they are just analogies.

In reality the core issue is the trend towards the players in this game. The main issue is gamers have paid for something expensive, only to have it changed, without notice, reducing the amount of room you can build, when there are already issues with good building areas that are walled off by invisible walls and thus inaccesible, unplayable/un-useable. In a ESO home that has months of reported issues, where these issues could have been fixed, someone at ZOS decided to just go around changing other things on a whim.

Analogies and metaphors aside, the key points to this issue are:
1. The game in general has lots of things that need fixing... but haven't been fixed
2. This particular property has things reported that need fixing... but haven't been fixed
3. A ZOS staff member changed the property cosmetically, reducing building area, for no actual real reason... and when so many things in the game actually needed to be fixed (points 1 and 2). Added a rock in the middle of the water, which just serves no purpose and looks stupid as its floating. And the Cavern now rains INSIDE even though it has a ceiling. This was all a waste of time and serves no resl reason.
4. The issue was reported... but over 4 weeks, no one at ZOS seemed to know who at ZOS changed the property and why.
5. The issue went ignored for 4 weeks
6. Finally, because this thread was gaining more attention and not going away, a ZOS response was issued, that is transparent and holds no weight or logic. That the changes (ALL CHANGES affecting different areas) were intended, and made to stop people getting outside the home from ONE area into an unplayable area outside the home. Makes no sense why you would change multiple things if the reason you provide is to do with one area, that could just be fixed by another invisible wall, over all the other invisible walls.
7. Purchasers of this expensive crown-store-only purchase were informed that the changes will NOT be reverted.

If you wish to boil the whole thing down into a bite size chunk, it's this: Anything that anyone purchases from Crown Store with real money, can be changed at any time, at ZOS whim, and with complete disregard for how the player feels about it; and there is nothing the player can do or say about it.

That's not good business for ZOS, and does nothing for their ever eroding reputation.

I dont disagree with you. Its why I refuse to put straight cash into Crowns to buy property. However, my ESO Plus buys me playtime, in addition to the Crowns. I have been using the Crowns to buy DLCs, not fluff, so, should I let it lapse, I can still access all content.

The list you made, was why I left after over a year from launch. I came back 14 months later and found, while ZoS has not changed, I lowered my expectations for a game maker.

Rouven

MacCait wrote: »

(...)

Gina never stated they closed off an area inside the Cavern that was not intended for use. The statement was "this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home".

(...)

For argument sake I'd say that people apparently where able to "play" there* and now their furnishings are buried under the rubble.

*without resorting to acrobatics to get there

So the statement from Gina should have read ... you could access an area we (ZOS) did not intend to be accessible and deem outside of the home.

Eddyble

Darlgon wrote: »

Eddyble wrote: »

To make sure I understand the situation correctly, I'm going to analogize the thread...

I go and look at a condo or house for sale @ a price of $130,000, it is shown to me and listed at 1300 sq. ft. and I verify this by exploring all rooms, closets etc., I like it , choose to buy it and begin to move in. 1 month later, I come home from work to find a storage closet is now gone. Like, the door is gone and it has been dry walled over. Thus making my home now 1200 sq. ft. and ~1 month after that I'm contacted after multiple inquiries and told that the area was not even supposed to have been built.

If this is correct, then aside from all the legalities of actually changing something after the sale, wouldn't the seller also have to offer some sort of compensation for changing the amount of space offered for x price to a now smaller amount of space?

Note: I did not purchase this home myself (I went with the Cyrodiil Jungle House) but am sympathetic for those who did as this seems like a pile of BS. And if they are allowed to get away with it once, then where will the line be drawn? Aesthetic things like other homes, mounts, costumes? Or Even full areas of DLC/expansions? What if they decide to make a Trial smaller, or even bigger but flip it and say you have to pay more now?

Kind of scary as a consumer, and leaving me not wanting to spend money on anything else regarding the game.

First issue. You dont BUY anything on ESO. You sign a long term lease. ZoS still owns it. If they shut down the servers tomorrow.. no one will own any property in ESO.

As a landlord, I reserve the right to make changes to any property I for which, I own the title. Including removing a closet.

Mmm, yes, I do understand that this is more like a rental or lease, but in any case would not the principal of the matter remain? Where even if I am not the owner, when a change is made, then a monetary adjustment is usually to follow? If my landlord suddenly took away my balcony I'd expect my rent to come down to the cost of another apartment that doesn't have one. Likewise if they chose to remodel my cabinets I'd expect my rent to go up. Whether I continued to live there of course is another matter. I just feel that if they are playing the card of, I can make changes to whatever I want whenever I want and not compensate you accordingly, then we're all in some trouble.

MacCait

Is anyone here on PS4 EU who bought the Earthtear Cavern and still has room for items?

The reason I ask is that I want to put a video together of the issues for clarities sake, and in the hope that ZOS may reconsider the situation out of goodwill.

However, I have finished our guild hall with 700 items in an extremely intricate design and my sub has now run out so nothing can be moved or replaced without killing the whole structure of the design. I need to use about 30 items (planks) to demonstrate.

If someone on PS4 EU invested in this discussion would kindly allow me access to their cavern so I can demonstrate in a short video the crazy amount of invisible walls using just wide planks to explore, I'd happily contribute some building materials and in-game money. I will also happily invite you to explore my Cavern which is finished and professionally designed.

If yes, can contact me here via private mesage or on forum

If not, no problem

Thanks

Arthmoor

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

This is a really terrible decision. It's quite obvious you guys have much more precise world building assets at your disposal than giant boulders. Surely someone could have come up with a more effective solution with a flat rock wall or something instead? A cave wall rather than a giant rock? Pretty much anything.

Breeding this kind of uncertainty with a house mod that's more expensive than the entire game and its DLCs is just plain wrong. I'd not be surprised if it violates some sort of consumer rights laws for selling something that no longer matches the product promised to those who bought it.

altemriel

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

LOL really? why you nerfed it, was it not possible to prevent the exploit?

Loralai_907

I'm just curious how big this area was that you were apparently able to escape from since it appears to have needed a substantial amount of rock to stop it from happening....

SFDB

The issue is made all the worse by poor timing. The sustain changes upset much of the player base, but much of the drama revolves around the customers who keep paying. Logically speaking, these are the worst people to displease.
-Morrowind being reclassified so as not to be covered under ESO+
-Crown Crates introducing ultra-rare items that cannot be purchased
-Alteration of items people paid real world money for, for no justifiable reason

With the only improvement to this group being:
-increased bank space

Hitting this group with multiple controversial issues in such a small window is just a glaring misstep. Because some people are bothered by everything, but some people are only bothered by one thing, but all it means is that your flood is both very wide and having spots of deepness. Again, in the group you least want to annoy.

Like, personally, I have no problem with the first (which is the only one that effects me), but the other two (which funny enough, don't) bother me because I don't like the trend they set at all. But even though I'm not directly, negatively effected, this is making me wary as a paying customer of when it will be my turn to have something awful happen. Will my crafting nook in Ebonheart manor suddenly find itself inside a new wall? Will my DLC motifs have their appearances changed? Will my crown crystals suddenly and silently be reset if I don't use them? Will my dwarven spider mount suddenly become a giant mudcrab? Nothing so far tells me that this won't be happening.

altemriel

SFDB wrote: »

The issue is made all the worse by poor timing. The sustain changes upset much of the player base, but much of the drama revolves around the customers who keep paying. Logically speaking, these are the worst people to displease.
-Morrowind being reclassified so as not to be covered under ESO+
-Crown Crates introducing ultra-rare items that cannot be purchased
-Alteration of items people paid real world money for, for no justifiable reason

With the only improvement to this group being:
-increased bank space

Hitting this group with multiple controversial issues in such a small window is just a glaring misstep. Because some people are bothered by everything, but some people are only bothered by one thing, but all it means is that your flood is both very wide and having spots of deepness. Again, in the group you least want to annoy.

Like, personally, I have no problem with the first (which is the only one that effects me), but the other two (which funny enough, don't) bother me because I don't like the trend they set at all. But even though I'm not directly, negatively effected, this is making me wary as a paying customer of when it will be my turn to have something awful happen. Will my crafting nook in Ebonheart manor suddenly find itself inside a new wall? Will my DLC motifs have their appearances changed? Will my crown crystals suddenly and silently be reset if I don't use them? Will my dwarven spider mount suddenly become a giant mudcrab? Nothing so far tells me that this won't be happening.

THIS!!


how can ZOS change anything that people bought for real money?


Craglorn cavern - should have removed the cause of exploit, not make the cavern smaller
other houses - why was it even done, nobody knows, no comments, discussing options......which options???? refund or revert???!!!!!!!there are no other options!!!!

vyndral13preub18_ESO

It is probably what you should expect from a company whose solution to an area constantly causing you to crash on xbox one, was to just tell players not go to that area.

MacCait

psychotrip wrote: »

Welp, here it is, at last. I tried to chronicle this entire experience, but let me know if I missed anything: https://comicsverse.com/elder-scrolls-online-housing/

Hey Psychotrip, great article.

Only one thing... you missed the floating rock ;P

jokes aside, you covered the situation well. I still find it all hard to believe in terms of positive customer relations, and I think you covered that well.

altemriel

Lady_Rosabella wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Welp, here it is, at last. I tried to chronicle this entire experience, but let me know if I missed anything: https://comicsverse.com/?p=152791&preview=true&preview_id=152791&preview_nonce=15c74e4844&post_format=standard&_thumbnail_id=152881

I tried the link and it said "Sorry you are not allowed to preview drafts"

yes, correct one is this one:
https://comicsverse.com/elder-scrolls-online-housing/

altemriel

altemriel wrote: »

Lady_Rosabella wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Welp, here it is, at last. I tried to chronicle this entire experience, but let me know if I missed anything: https://comicsverse.com/?p=152791&preview=true&preview_id=152791&preview_nonce=15c74e4844&post_format=standard&_thumbnail_id=152881

I tried the link and it said "Sorry you are not allowed to preview drafts"

yes, correct one is this one:
https://comicsverse.com/elder-scrolls-online-housing/

"A simple “This is a bug, we don’t know what’s causing it, we’ll update you when we learn more” would suffice. As it stands, we’re 20 days in to this nonsense, and all we have is a cacophony of PR-speak and vagaries."

Ashtaris

Arthmoor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

This is a really terrible decision. It's quite obvious you guys have much more precise world building assets at your disposal than giant boulders. Surely someone could have come up with a more effective solution with a flat rock wall or something instead? A cave wall rather than a giant rock? Pretty much anything.

Breeding this kind of uncertainty with a house mod that's more expensive than the entire game and its DLCs is just plain wrong. I'd not be surprised if it violates some sort of consumer rights laws for selling something that no longer matches the product promised to those who bought it.

Exactly. Collision planes can be placed much more intricately than just putting a big rock in the room. They just took the lazy man's way out and now are trying to justify their position.

MacCait

Ashtaris wrote: »

Arthmoor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

This is a really terrible decision. It's quite obvious you guys have much more precise world building assets at your disposal than giant boulders. Surely someone could have come up with a more effective solution with a flat rock wall or something instead? A cave wall rather than a giant rock? Pretty much anything.

Breeding this kind of uncertainty with a house mod that's more expensive than the entire game and its DLCs is just plain wrong. I'd not be surprised if it violates some sort of consumer rights laws for selling something that no longer matches the product promised to those who bought it.

Exactly. Collision planes can be placed much more intricately than just putting a big rock in the room. They just took the lazy man's way out and now are trying to justify their position.

I agree... But I don't think this was intended at all. I really don't believe there even was an area you could get out of. My reasoning is that adding weather inside the cavern has nothing to do with the issue they alledge. Adding a single floating rock in the water has nothing to do with the issue they alledge. They alledge this escaping issue, but put rock over two entirely different areas in the cavern, one of which had no window, just solid cave walls anyway.

I think it more likely someone just decided to do these things without asking anyone officially... then got found out, but ZOS can't be bothered to fix it now.

Tavore1138

Darlgon wrote: »

Eddyble wrote: »

To make sure I understand the situation correctly, I'm going to analogize the thread...

I go and look at a condo or house for sale @ a price of $130,000, it is shown to me and listed at 1300 sq. ft. and I verify this by exploring all rooms, closets etc., I like it , choose to buy it and begin to move in. 1 month later, I come home from work to find a storage closet is now gone. Like, the door is gone and it has been dry walled over. Thus making my home now 1200 sq. ft. and ~1 month after that I'm contacted after multiple inquiries and told that the area was not even supposed to have been built.

If this is correct, then aside from all the legalities of actually changing something after the sale, wouldn't the seller also have to offer some sort of compensation for changing the amount of space offered for x price to a now smaller amount of space?

Note: I did not purchase this home myself (I went with the Cyrodiil Jungle House) but am sympathetic for those who did as this seems like a pile of BS. And if they are allowed to get away with it once, then where will the line be drawn? Aesthetic things like other homes, mounts, costumes? Or Even full areas of DLC/expansions? What if they decide to make a Trial smaller, or even bigger but flip it and say you have to pay more now?

Kind of scary as a consumer, and leaving me not wanting to spend money on anything else regarding the game.

First issue. You dont BUY anything on ESO. You sign a long term lease. ZoS still owns it. If they shut down the servers tomorrow.. no one will own any property in ESO.

As a landlord, I reserve the right to make changes to any property I for which, I own the title. Including removing a closet.

As a landlord if you enter the property I have rented from you without notice or permission then you are in breach of the law (by UK law anyway) so if you break in to make changes I'd be within my rights to have you arrested for that - so maybe not the best analogy

I've been trying to find the time to a bit of reading up on the law around digital currencies and similar gaming issues as a result of all this and so far can't find much in either direction that applies to housing itself - interestingly though the gamble crates may be subject to UK gaming/gambling laws which have been/are being extended to cover virtual currencies in which case the failure by ZOS to publish things like odds might make UK customers able to report them or make claims. I'm no lawyer though so still trying to make sense of it...