ZOS NERF: Earthtear Cavern Changes... Noooooooooo :(

MacCait

Erraln wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

So what was the core issue? Were people not supposed to access the Khajiit area outside the Earthear walls (why is it there?), or was there something worse going on? People able to take objects they hadn't bought, or something? What was going on that reducing size/ value of purchased items was the best solution?

What khajiit area?

Erraln

MacCait wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

So what was the core issue? Were people not supposed to access the Khajiit area outside the Earthear walls (why is it there?), or was there something worse going on? People able to take objects they hadn't bought, or something? What was going on that reducing size/ value of purchased items was the best solution?

What khajiit area?

This one. It's on the same map as Earthtear, or was on Homestead PTS at any rate.

MilwaukeeScott

Lady_Rosabella wrote: »

Oh and btw, thanks for letting everyone know in advance so they could remove the items they had placed in those areas instead of them being loss under giant boulders.

You should have let us know beforehand.

MacCait

Erraln wrote: »

MacCait wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

So what was the core issue? Were people not supposed to access the Khajiit area outside the Earthear walls (why is it there?), or was there something worse going on? People able to take objects they hadn't bought, or something? What was going on that reducing size/ value of purchased items was the best solution?

What khajiit area?

This one. It's on the same map as Earthtear, or was on Homestead PTS at any rate.

No I can confirm you could not access that from the areas that where changed. I'll post pics tomorrow to show how that is impossible and how this excuse doesn't hold up

Erraln

MacCait wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

MacCait wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

So what was the core issue? Were people not supposed to access the Khajiit area outside the Earthear walls (why is it there?), or was there something worse going on? People able to take objects they hadn't bought, or something? What was going on that reducing size/ value of purchased items was the best solution?

What khajiit area?

This one. It's on the same map as Earthtear, or was on Homestead PTS at any rate.

No I can confirm you could not access that from the areas that where changed. I'll post pics tomorrow to show how that is impossible and how this excuse doesn't hold up

I wouldn't want it to hold up. I don't think it'd be a good reason to edit an already-purchased map.

SFDB

I am so glad I didn't buy this. I came very close, but my desire for it just couldn't outweigh the cost. Having a geometrically unpredictable house full of rain is the kind of house I dump on the market dirt cheap, not pay top dollar to buy.

makerofthings

Wow, just wow. After weeks of silence and requesting answers we get this out of thin air excuse. The correct thing this company should have done was to revert back to what we paid for. There was absolutely no way to enter this forbidden area and they know it. Now I am sure they hope this will all go away and soon forgotten.

Lady_Rosabella

makerofthings wrote: »

Wow, just wow. After weeks of silence and requesting answers we get this out of thin air excuse. The correct thing this company should have done was to revert back to what we paid for. There was absolutely no way to enter this forbidden area and they know it. Now I am sure they hope this will all go away and soon forgotten.

Oh this won't be forgotten, three things you don't mess with:
1. Someone's Family & Friends
2. Someone's Home
3. Someone's Money

Hubby and I spent $240 to buy us each the cavern, because obviously, couples can't share a home and both have the capability to place their OWN furnishings in it, someone else can decorate but both can't place furnishings from their own account. That's $240 we could have spent on stuff that wouldn't get changed or taken away. I'm not saying we are any better than the people who spent $120 for the cavern or even $100 for the unfurnished as I know that most of you are like we are and it probably took you a while to decide on spending that much for digital content or you even had to save up to purchase it. Pure and simple this was wrong and with social media, blogs, and gaming website forums this won't be forgotten, more like spread around.

psychotrip

Lady_Rosabella wrote: »

makerofthings wrote: »

Wow, just wow. After weeks of silence and requesting answers we get this out of thin air excuse. The correct thing this company should have done was to revert back to what we paid for. There was absolutely no way to enter this forbidden area and they know it. Now I am sure they hope this will all go away and soon forgotten.

Oh this won't be forgotten, three things you don't mess with:
1. Someone's Family & Friends
2. Someone's Home
3. Someone's Money

Hubby and I spent $240 to buy us each the cavern, because obviously, couples can't share a home and both have the capability to place their OWN furnishings in it, someone else can decorate but both can't place furnishings from their own account. That's $240 we could have spent on stuff that wouldn't get changed or taken away. I'm not saying we are any better than the people who spent $120 for the cavern or even $100 for the unfurnished as I know that most of you are like we are and it probably took you a while to decide on spending that much for digital content or you even had to save up to purchase it. Pure and simple this was wrong and with social media, blogs, and gaming website forums this won't be forgotten, more like spread around.

I'm almost done with the article I've been writing on this entire incident. It should be done tomorrow. Zenimax never responded to our press inquiry. Some of these housing issues (Mathiisen especially) seem like they could have legitimately been innocent glitches. For Earthtear, something just doesn't sit right with me. Hopefully, this doesn't go away.

Lady_Rosabella

MacCait wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ok everyone, regarding the changes made to Earthtear Cavern, this was actually an intentional change in order to prevent an issue where you could access an unplayable area outside of the home. As such, we will not be reverting this change since it was done to fix an issue. These changes went live sooner than we expected, which is why there wasn't a documented patch note for it; we apologize for the confusion this caused.

I'm sorry, but I think that is just a BS excuse. There was no way to get out of the Cavern in either area, I tried. I tried as I like to plug in all areas where my guild mates might get stuck or have issues, as it ruins my design. There were zero issues in either of those areas.

In one of the areas changed there is no possible way to get out as there where nothing but SOLID walls there. Rocks where placed in an area with no water or way out, just a wall. The area I speak of is next to the waterfall. The only issue in that area was one wall was poorly textured. The simple fix for this was to just add a texture to the rock concerned. NOT place a whole mountain of rock over that area.

In the second area, there are not only invisible walls stopping you from getting out, but if somehow you managed to get past that, which is impossible, then Slaughterfish would kill you. Either way, if what you are saying is true, then all they had to do was add another invisible wall with collison data. Lord knows the Cavern has enougth of those. As a result a large area has been lost here. Thats not plugging a tiny hole, that's covering an entire area.

It has taken the best part of a month for you guys to reply to this, and now this BS excuse. I'm sorry but I have lost all faith and respect for you guys with this. I'm trying to be polite as possible here, and if I for a second believed this was a real issue I'd just accept it, but this is simply BS, nothing else. It seems clear it's just taken a month to come up with just an excuse.

The reality of this situation is anyone who buys a house for crowns and real money can have that digital property changed at any time and without reason, at the whim of ZOS, and there's nothing anyone can say or do about it. Ok lesson learned.

Time to stop giving ZOS my money.

I agree! When I purchased the cavern on day one of it's release and on several occasion since I have placed numerous planks all along the walls and stretching toward the ceiling to see how far I could build and have tried climbing over every rock or boulder and there has always been invisible walls blocking access to outside. And even on the PTS when I purchased the cavern, I was trying to jump up on all the rocks and trying to jump out to the outside water and never could. Heck on the PTS we had slaughterfish on the inside water of the cavern so I know if anyone could jump out... which they can't.... they would be killed by slaughterfish and have to wayshrine.

I know for a fact there was no way to get out on the right side of the waterfall where the little nook is as I built a small area over there and was always limited by the invisible wall from going any further, and besides if I could have gotten past the invisible wall where would I have gone? There's a cave wall there that goes from the ground and extends the whole ceiling of the cavern. I agree this excuse is bogus.

MacCait

Does anyone have some clear screen shots or even video of the two areas before they were covered in a mountain of rock?

It never even occurred to me to screen shot or video while I was designing. The design took a few months of work as it was fiddly. I was just going to make a video afterwards.

I am searching other peoples videos to see if anyone had shown the area, but as was the great thing about the areas, no one thought to look there... so it was a gem when you did as you discovered this whole area that wasn't visible unless you walked around the corner. Hard to describe but as a few, like myself, built rooms there, I wondered if anyone had screen shots or video of the areas before they were changed.

Screen shots and video will convery exactly how much area has been filled in

Erraln

MacCait wrote: »

Does anyone have some clear screen shots or even video of the two areas before they were covered in a mountain of rock?

It never even occurred to me to screen shot or video while I was designing. The design took a few months of work as it was fiddly. I was just going to make a video afterwards.

I am searching other peoples videos to see if anyone had shown the area, but as was the great thing about the areas, no one thought to look there... so it was a gem when you did as you discovered this whole area that wasn't visible unless you walked around the corner. Hard to describe but as a few, like myself, built rooms there, I wondered if anyone had screen shots or video of the areas before they were changed.

Screen shots and video will convery exactly how much area has been filled in

Reminds me of an interview I saw about mining in the Appalachians... the man had no specific memories of how the mountain looked before it was crushed and removed for resources. Why commit to memory what's supposed to be there forever, right?

MacCait

Erraln wrote: »

MacCait wrote: »

Does anyone have some clear screen shots or even video of the two areas before they were covered in a mountain of rock?

It never even occurred to me to screen shot or video while I was designing. The design took a few months of work as it was fiddly. I was just going to make a video afterwards.

I am searching other peoples videos to see if anyone had shown the area, but as was the great thing about the areas, no one thought to look there... so it was a gem when you did as you discovered this whole area that wasn't visible unless you walked around the corner. Hard to describe but as a few, like myself, built rooms there, I wondered if anyone had screen shots or video of the areas before they were changed.

Screen shots and video will convery exactly how much area has been filled in

Reminds me of an interview I saw about mining in the Appalachians... the man had no specific memories of how the mountain looked before it was crushed and removed for resources. Why commit to memory what's supposed to be there forever, right?

exactly

bareheiny

MacCait wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

MacCait wrote: »

Does anyone have some clear screen shots or even video of the two areas before they were covered in a mountain of rock?

It never even occurred to me to screen shot or video while I was designing. The design took a few months of work as it was fiddly. I was just going to make a video afterwards.

I am searching other peoples videos to see if anyone had shown the area, but as was the great thing about the areas, no one thought to look there... so it was a gem when you did as you discovered this whole area that wasn't visible unless you walked around the corner. Hard to describe but as a few, like myself, built rooms there, I wondered if anyone had screen shots or video of the areas before they were changed.

Screen shots and video will convery exactly how much area has been filled in

Reminds me of an interview I saw about mining in the Appalachians... the man had no specific memories of how the mountain looked before it was crushed and removed for resources. Why commit to memory what's supposed to be there forever, right?

exactly

Oi!

You've got a day or two before opening the cavern for the guild...get back to work. No time for forums!

Lady_Rosabella

MacCait wrote: »

Does anyone have some clear screen shots or even video of the two areas before they were covered in a mountain of rock?

It never even occurred to me to screen shot or video while I was designing. The design took a few months of work as it was fiddly. I was just going to make a video afterwards.

I am searching other peoples videos to see if anyone had shown the area, but as was the great thing about the areas, no one thought to look there... so it was a gem when you did as you discovered this whole area that wasn't visible unless you walked around the corner. Hard to describe but as a few, like myself, built rooms there, I wondered if anyone had screen shots or video of the areas before they were changed.

Screen shots and video will convery exactly how much area has been filled in

For some reason I can't upload the url to post the pics here....I could earlier today? But click the link below


imgur.com/a/fBAhK

SantieClaws

Khajiit understands the need to block off access but could it have been done in a more subtle way? Even an invisible wall might have been better than walling off a rather large corner of the property yes.

This one is also pleased to hear the Manor owners will have their windows restored.

Khajiit must also ask if those of us who reside in the Palatial Hall formerly owned by Mr Hunding - will be get back our kelp and our shells?

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Urkraft

I also read, the home in shadowfenn (dont know the english name, something like always-wet i guess) got removed some walls...

Lookstowindwards

It's not as if access to a restricted area did never happen in other games. In fact, it happened over and over, and you know, that this other companies have done about it? Almost nothing. And why? Because it doesnt do any harm.

Worst thing what could happen to you was a teleport out, and of course you could be (temporally) banned for telling other how to access that areas, but mostly you could run around and even post videos of it (Say hello to the infamous Karazhan underground!).
In all cases, in all the games i played, the glitches that make it possible to access such "forbitten" areas were fixed someday, but mostly the fix was installed then the devs did have to work on that specific area anyway.

And i seriously doubt other companies would have had the impudence to destroy already bought things like it happened here.

Magdalina

There're at least 5+(actually more) places where you can get out of the map in Tamriel. Some of them have been there since launch and even had videos uploaded to YouTube - after which we were afraid(because they're actually fun to wonder around) they'd get blocked off but they never were. They have 0 effect on gameplay whatsoever and are not possible to exploit in any way. Yet when such a place(one hard to access, too, as none of its owners present in this thread seem to have found it) allegedly surfaced in a house bought for irl money Zeni rushed on to drop boulders on it? Right.

#zoslogic

Sounds like someone got drunk or something at his work place and just screwed with some housing for fun tbh. Mind boggling that they'd alter big crown store purchases like these without a word, this will cost them money. I hope you guys who go through with it can get a refund.

Side note, never bought housing or furniture for crowns. Definitely never will now.

Saoirse_Siobhan

Urkraft wrote: »

I also read, the home in shadowfenn (dont know the english name, something like always-wet i guess) got removed some walls...

Someone mentioned that Stay-Moist Mansion is missing some ruined walls and Argonian-themed posts.

Feanor

What more proof is needed that we play a AAA game from a professional company that takes user input seriously...

Enodoc

MacCait wrote: »

Does anyone have some clear screen shots or even video of the two areas before they were covered in a mountain of rock?

It never even occurred to me to screen shot or video while I was designing. The design took a few months of work as it was fiddly. I was just going to make a video afterwards.

I am searching other peoples videos to see if anyone had shown the area, but as was the great thing about the areas, no one thought to look there... so it was a gem when you did as you discovered this whole area that wasn't visible unless you walked around the corner. Hard to describe but as a few, like myself, built rooms there, I wondered if anyone had screen shots or video of the areas before they were changed.

Screen shots and video will convery exactly how much area has been filled in

Yeah before and after shots are definitely needed. I don't remember there being any particularly 'secret' areas when this house was on PTS, and I was trying to get everywhere.

MacCait

Enodoc wrote: »

MacCait wrote: »

Does anyone have some clear screen shots or even video of the two areas before they were covered in a mountain of rock?

It never even occurred to me to screen shot or video while I was designing. The design took a few months of work as it was fiddly. I was just going to make a video afterwards.

I am searching other peoples videos to see if anyone had shown the area, but as was the great thing about the areas, no one thought to look there... so it was a gem when you did as you discovered this whole area that wasn't visible unless you walked around the corner. Hard to describe but as a few, like myself, built rooms there, I wondered if anyone had screen shots or video of the areas before they were changed.

Screen shots and video will convery exactly how much area has been filled in

Yeah before and after shots are definitely needed. I don't remember there being any particularly 'secret' areas when this house was on PTS, and I was trying to get everywhere.

I'll see what I can put together... it's difficult, becuase like you, most people walked straight past it. I watched every youtube video last night and every person just looked in the direction, didn't go over there, and so just walkedright past the entrance as they couldn't see anything

Muttsmutt

hahaha, changing a product after it was sold? really? who sat down at their desk and thought, "man, earthtear cavern really could use some more rocks!"

charlie_delta

I returned to this game in December as friends were playing it. I haved played on average 40hrs a week as im currently on extended leave. I bought a lot of crown store things including a house plus the collectors edition of morrowind. I even bought a second gold account for trading and for friends that drop over to have a go with me. I have 4 cp characters. I was until this month a plus subber.

It took a while but I started to find it hard to ignore some of the flaws in the game. Most of which surprise me considering the IP and AAA title status. I read the forums A LOT so I also have a good feel of other issues such as this one.

While not affected by it, I do feel validated in my decision earlier this month to stop finacially supporting this game. Issues like these highlight a gross management failure at ZOS. As such I have little faith that the issues that seriously detract from this game will ever be addressed. Likewise, innovation that would truly make this game a masterpiece will never be realized.

House owners, you know whats involved here. You all place furniture. It's exactly the same process used to place the items that have messed your houses up. Any one of you could have fixed this in between your morning tea and lunch. We are not talking complex rocket science here. A trainee student work experience kid could have fixed this.

The fact that it has been messed with in the first place. The subsequent silence. The lack of fixing it followed now by some lame technical scape goat excuse to not fix it. All of these things are an insight into this company, its culture and management failure.

It's not the first of poor decisions. It's not the last. The temp bans of players killing a public dungeon boss more than once, deeming them as exploiters rather than victims of a coding bug was unforgivable imo. It was the first alarm bell for me. Not for the errors themselves. But for their management or lack thereof. This housing issue follows the trend.

Just be glad you didn't get banned for building in an exploitable section I guess.

MacCait

charlie_delta wrote: »

I returned to this game in December as friends were playing it. I haved played on average 40hrs a week as im currently on extended leave. I bought a lot of crown store things including a house plus the collectors edition of morrowind. I even bought a second gold account for trading and for friends that drop over to have a go with me. I have 4 cp characters. I was until this month a plus subber.

It took a while but I started to find it hard to ignore some of the flaws in the game. Most of which surprise me considering the IP and AAA title status. I read the forums A LOT so I also have a good feel of other issues such as this one.

While not affected by it, I do feel validated in my decision earlier this month to stop finacially supporting this game. Issues like these highlight a gross management failure at ZOS. As such I have little faith that the issues that seriously detract from this game will ever be addressed. Likewise, innovation that would truly make this game a masterpiece will never be realized.

House owners, you know whats involved here. You all place furniture. It's exactly the same process used to place the items that have messed your houses up. Any one of you could have fixed this in between your morning tea and lunch. We are not talking complex rocket science here. A trainee student work experience kid could have fixed this.

The fact that it has been messed with in the first place. The subsequent silence. The lack of fixing it followed now by some lame technical scape goat excuse to not fix it. All of these things are an insight into this company, its culture and management failure.

It's not the first of poor decisions. It's not the last. The temp bans of players killing a public dungeon boss more than once, deeming them as exploiters rather than victims of a coding bug was unforgivable imo. It was the first alarm bell for me. Not for the errors themselves. But for their management or lack thereof. This housing issue follows the trend.

Just be glad you didn't get banned for building in an exploitable section I guess.

Agree with everything you said... except there was NO exploitable area! That is just an excuse they came up with so they do not need to revert the changes

Feanor

At this point I'm just happy I didn't shell out crowns in the first place for this. I was tempted to when the Cavern first was on PTS. It seems buyer's remorse is the standard business procedure from here on.

bareheiny

So now I’m curious...what, aside from apologies, is going to be done about this?

Nothing I suspect.

I don’t like the smell of this...god, I hate to say it, but DCUO is looking better every day. Despite all the *** they’ve done, I don’t think it’s anywhere near as bad as arbitrarily, and with no warning, changing something that (possibly) cost somebody real money.



I was looking forward to the new Balmora costume...now I don’t want to get for fear that the boob window will be patched at a later date

reiverx

It could well be that they genuinely can't revert the changes because of said reasons.

However, because ZOS's reputation has taken a huge nosedive lately, nobody trusts them.

psychotrip

reiverx wrote: »

It could well be that they genuinely can't revert the changes because of said reasons.

However, because ZOS's reputation has taken a huge nosedive lately, nobody trusts them.

I'm no coder, but how is this not as simple as removing the boulder and adding an invisible wall to the place characters are allegedly getting out of bounds? If the entire blocked off area was causing problems, why should we accept it being cut off rather than patched up? This is just bizzare.