ZOS NERF: Earthtear Cavern Changes... Noooooooooo :(

bareheiny

Going slightly off topic here...but pretty sure Mac won't mind too much:

SFDB wrote: »

With the only improvement to this group being:
-increased bank space

ZOS logic - oh, hey...we're not going to give you housing storage because a good percentage of the player base hasn't upgraded their storage (backpack, horse and banking). But you know what, we'll double the bank space of subscribers.

Orjix

Didn't buy the house, but this is total BS. I fail to understand how anyone at ZOS ever thought this was a good idea.

makerofthings

ZOS this is not going away so please revert. If nothing else, just to get paying customers off your back. You know, the ones whom pay your bills.

Nebthet78

This whole issue has made me decide to NEVER EVER buy anything of significance with Crowns in this game because ZOS doesn't give one flying F*** about the money we spend. I was thinking about saving up to buy one of the other Crown only homes... screw that!!! I now refuse to spend any more than is necessary to get the DLC in this game, and even then, THAT's debateable now.

Wreuntzylla

Darlgon wrote: »

Eddyble wrote: »

To make sure I understand the situation correctly, I'm going to analogize the thread...

I go and look at a condo or house for sale @ a price of $130,000, it is shown to me and listed at 1300 sq. ft. and I verify this by exploring all rooms, closets etc., I like it , choose to buy it and begin to move in. 1 month later, I come home from work to find a storage closet is now gone. Like, the door is gone and it has been dry walled over. Thus making my home now 1200 sq. ft. and ~1 month after that I'm contacted after multiple inquiries and told that the area was not even supposed to have been built.

If this is correct, then aside from all the legalities of actually changing something after the sale, wouldn't the seller also have to offer some sort of compensation for changing the amount of space offered for x price to a now smaller amount of space?

Note: I did not purchase this home myself (I went with the Cyrodiil Jungle House) but am sympathetic for those who did as this seems like a pile of BS. And if they are allowed to get away with it once, then where will the line be drawn? Aesthetic things like other homes, mounts, costumes? Or Even full areas of DLC/expansions? What if they decide to make a Trial smaller, or even bigger but flip it and say you have to pay more now?

Kind of scary as a consumer, and leaving me not wanting to spend money on anything else regarding the game.

First issue. You dont BUY anything on ESO. You sign a long term lease. ZoS still owns it. If they shut down the servers tomorrow.. no one will own any property in ESO.

As a landlord, I reserve the right to make changes to any property I for which, I own the title. Including removing a closet.

You are wrong on both counts.

Setting aside your contractual rights, nothing is stopping anyone from filing a complaint with the FTC or their state attorney general, or any consumer protection agency, and nothing in their agreement with the ZoS can prevent agency action.

But they won't. People are sheep. They will complain here and that will be the end of it. That's why ZoS can do what it does.

makerofthings

Unfortunately that is true since ZOS has no intention to fix what was not broken in the first place and customer service will not issue any refunds.

Darlgon

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Eddyble wrote: »

To make sure I understand the situation correctly, I'm going to analogize the thread...

I go and look at a condo or house for sale @ a price of $130,000, it is shown to me and listed at 1300 sq. ft. and I verify this by exploring all rooms, closets etc., I like it , choose to buy it and begin to move in. 1 month later, I come home from work to find a storage closet is now gone. Like, the door is gone and it has been dry walled over. Thus making my home now 1200 sq. ft. and ~1 month after that I'm contacted after multiple inquiries and told that the area was not even supposed to have been built.

If this is correct, then aside from all the legalities of actually changing something after the sale, wouldn't the seller also have to offer some sort of compensation for changing the amount of space offered for x price to a now smaller amount of space?

Note: I did not purchase this home myself (I went with the Cyrodiil Jungle House) but am sympathetic for those who did as this seems like a pile of BS. And if they are allowed to get away with it once, then where will the line be drawn? Aesthetic things like other homes, mounts, costumes? Or Even full areas of DLC/expansions? What if they decide to make a Trial smaller, or even bigger but flip it and say you have to pay more now?

Kind of scary as a consumer, and leaving me not wanting to spend money on anything else regarding the game.

First issue. You dont BUY anything on ESO. You sign a long term lease. ZoS still owns it. If they shut down the servers tomorrow.. no one will own any property in ESO.

As a landlord, I reserve the right to make changes to any property I for which, I own the title. Including removing a closet.

You are wrong on both counts.

Setting aside your contractual rights, nothing is stopping anyone from filing a complaint with the FTC or their state attorney general, or any consumer protection agency, and nothing in their agreement with the ZoS can prevent agency action.

But they won't. People are sheep. They will complain here and that will be the end of it. That's why ZoS can do what it does.

Ha ha ha... Ok.. then go claim your land in Star Wars Galaxies..

Wrong on both counts.. FUNNY.

Getting FTC or States Attorney? They will laugh you out of the office.

And.. no .. i am not wrong on both counts. The tenant does not have to know that the city deemed the balcony unsafe, so I had to remove it. They just need to know that it is now gone and they wont fall to their deaths.

Orjix

[/quote]

Ha ha ha... Ok.. then go claim your land in Star Wars Galaxies..

Wrong on both counts.. FUNNY.

Getting FTC or States Attorney? They will laugh you out of the office.

And.. no .. i am not wrong on both counts. The tenant does not have to know that the city deemed the balcony unsafe, so I had to remove it. They just need to know that it is now gone and they wont fall to their deaths.[/quote]

right but if one of the reasons i decided to rent from you is because your house had a balcony and now it doesn't you can bet you will now have one less tenant. but in this case it's more like. "HMM that balcony COULD be made safe if we added another 2x4 and a few screws, OR we could just rip it off". wile it may take a bit more to fix the balcony at least the tenant is happy and he wont tell others that you are crap and warn others away from you. it's about maintaining a good reputation.

makerofthings

ZOS must be like " Holy hopscotching Jesus, why can't these people let it go already?"

PocketNova

I'm sad it's turned out the way it has but if I'm completely honest I'm not surprised.

I personally did use either of the spots that were affected by the newly present rocks, though I did store planks in one for a friend to use. Still haven't removed them from the rock.

I wish it was handled differently, I wish invisible walls were installed instead of what has occured but alas none of us have any control over that. I just hope that any future changes to houses/crown store items is handled in a much more professional manor but I doubt it.

I have to stay I still like my cave though and have no desire to ask for a refund. I feel for those that were personally affected (as in had created something in the spots now under rocks).

altemriel

this is scandalous!!!!

Zer0oo

Just wait till they release Earthtear Cavern II with less rocks and that only for 25k crowns

Urkraft

Zer0oo wrote: »

Just wait till they release Earthtear Cavern II with less rocks and that only for 25k crowns

i am just waiting for 10k crowns expansion packages.

Arkvoril

Scandalous! ZO$ shame shame shame.

reiverx

Darlgon wrote: »

Ha ha ha... Ok.. then go claim your land in Star Wars Galaxies..

Wrong on both counts.. FUNNY.

Getting FTC or States Attorney? They will laugh you out of the office.

And.. no .. i am not wrong on both counts. The tenant does not have to know that the city deemed the balcony unsafe, so I had to remove it. They just need to know that it is now gone and they wont fall to their deaths.

You're not a landlord. Otherwise you would know you can't enter a tenants home without their permission or give reasonable notice to enter.

Maybe it's entirely different in your state. So what state are we talking about here?

Darlgon

reiverx wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Ha ha ha... Ok.. then go claim your land in Star Wars Galaxies..

Wrong on both counts.. FUNNY.

Getting FTC or States Attorney? They will laugh you out of the office.

And.. no .. i am not wrong on both counts. The tenant does not have to know that the city deemed the balcony unsafe, so I had to remove it. They just need to know that it is now gone and they wont fall to their deaths.

You're not a landlord. Otherwise you would know you can't enter a tenants home without their permission or give reasonable notice to enter.

Maybe it's entirely different in your state. So what state are we talking about here?

Why are you beating this to death? No. you dont get personal information.

You have taken a simple illustration about ZoS owning the cave and blown it into an idiotic property rights issue.

Simply put, since you seem to need it simplified. Those who says they "own" Earthtear Cave are deluding themselves. They paid ZoS for pixels on a server. They dont own anything substantial. They have no deed. They have no ownership rights.

They bought the Brooklyn Bridge.

MacCait

We're getting offtrack here guys, arguing over symantics and metaphors... missing the key points of the issue.

If you read the thread, the key points are well laid out, explained and very clear.

It would be helpful to keep the discussion on track rather than letting ourselves get caught up in confusing analogies that don't really help the discussion or situation.

Just want to keep things on track and relevant

Arkvoril

MacCait wrote: »

We're getting offtrack here guys, arguing over symantics and metaphors... missing the key points of the issue.

If you read the thread, the key points are well laid out, explained and very clear.

It would be helpful to keep the discussion on track rather than letting ourselves get caught up in confusing analogies that don't really help the discussion or situation.

Just want to keep things on track and relevant

^This. Let the landlord thing go. Stay focused so they can't shut it down.

dotme

Darlgon wrote: »

First issue. You dont BUY anything on ESO. You sign a long term lease. ZoS still owns it. If they shut down the servers tomorrow.. no one will own any property in ESO.

As a landlord, I reserve the right to make changes to any property I for which, I own the title. Including removing a closet.

I suspect that by changing the square footage of the property, you have materially altered it and while you may have the right to do so, your tenant would also have the right to terminate their lease and receive a refund of the unused portion, no?

ZOS is offering no refunds and has only apologized for "confusion" - not for removing space or burying customer's furnishings in rock.

The Earthtear Cavern changes appear to have been a lazy fix - Couldn't ZOS remedy that by removing the boulders and placing some invisible barriers at the back, blocking whatever points of egress were allowing people to "access an unplayable area outside of the home" instead?

It seems that this may be an issue of standards and acceptable levels of quality workmanship. So much of the artwork in the game is outstanding... and when a change appears to have been done without care, consideration and attention-to-detail it really sticks out like a sore thumb. They swatted a fly with a sledgehammer. If it can be done a better way, without the loss of usable space, I think ZOS should consider taking another shot at it, this time with more nuance and delicacy.

That would probably make everyone happy. Just my 2 cents.

Triumviri

So let me get this straight...

A change was made in a eso house that was not originally intended.

You guys are asking that since you paid for it that these unintentional changes be reverted

Because they did not send a written letter stating such?

By that logic I hereby request all bugs that were in the game put back in place all exploits all gold farms all skill point cheats place back as they were...

Because it was in the original game that I purchased.

dotme

Triumviri wrote: »

So let me get this straight...

A change was made in a eso house that was not originally intended.

You guys are asking that since you paid for it that these unintentional changes be reverted...

Not really. I think most people feel these changes should be revisited and improved, not reverted. If it could have been done in a way that didn't materially change the usable space inside the home, why not do that?

ZOS likes selling things in the crown store. People buy expecting their item(s) to remain substantially the same as when they were purchased. A precedent like this, where people drop $100+ on housing and then end up surprised when they lose space that they had been using and had furnished, is not good for business. It's a trust thing.

Triumviri

You can remote retrieve the furnished items. This spot was not intended to be sold as a secret hang out spot in the house. You all need to move on.

dotme

Triumviri wrote: »

You can remote retrieve the furnished items. This spot was not intended to be sold as a secret hang out spot in the house. You all need to move on.

Have you considered reading more about this and educating yourself before commenting? It was not a secret spot - you could walk right into it. Gina's explanation was that the boulders were placed to prevent access to "an unplayable area outside of the home" but the problem was that they clobbered space inside the home too.

Oh - and you're not my mother. Don't tell me what to do

Triumviri

That is the thing. It was not intended. No access was to be given to said space whether or not one could simply walk I to it.

They removed the access. Its over deal with it.

dotme

Triumviri wrote: »

That is the thing. It was not intended. No access was to be given to said space whether or not one could simply walk I to it.

They removed the access. Its over deal with it.

Again with the telling people what to do... Why comment here if you have only negative things to say? I'm just trying to offer constructive solutions. You're trying to shut everyone up.

Darlgon

Triumviri wrote: »

That is the thing. It was not intended. No access was to be given to said space whether or not one could simply walk I to it.

They removed the access. Its over deal with it.

You must not have read the thread and looked at all the pretty pictures. They didnt just wall of a small area. They took a large portion of it in some areas.

Triumviri

Darlgon wrote: »

Triumviri wrote: »

That is the thing. It was not intended. No access was to be given to said space whether or not one could simply walk I to it.

They removed the access. Its over deal with it.

You must not have read the thread and looked at all the pretty pictures. They didnt just wall of a small area. They took a large portion of it in some areas.

Good. It was not intended.

Stopnaggin

Triumviri wrote: »

You can remote retrieve the furnished items. This spot was not intended to be sold as a secret hang out spot in the house. You all need to move on.

Again, these forums are a place to voice your displeasure with something. No one needs to move on unless they have nothing to bring to the discussion. Seriously if you have nothing to bring to the table, for or against, then why bother posting at all.

Triumviri wrote: »

So let me get this straight...

A change was made in a eso house that was not originally intended.

You guys are asking that since you paid for it that these unintentional changes be reverted

Because they did not send a written letter stating such?

By that logic I hereby request all bugs that were in the game put back in place all exploits all gold farms all skill point cheats place back as they were...

Because it was in the original game that I purchased.

We aren't talking about exploits and cheats, this was in fact an area that was easily accessible without glitching out of the map. You could walk right into it. It was lazy, not well thought out and no satisfatory answer was given. But since you fail to see what the original complaint was I guess we should all bow to your wishes and move on.

Lady_Rosabella

dotme wrote: »

Triumviri wrote: »

So let me get this straight...

A change was made in a eso house that was not originally intended.

You guys are asking that since you paid for it that these unintentional changes be reverted...

Not really. I think most people feel these changes should be revisited and improved, not reverted. If it could have been done in a way that didn't materially change the usable space inside the home, why not do that?

ZOS likes selling things in the crown store. People buy expecting their item(s) to remain substantially the same as when they were purchased. A precedent like this, where people drop $100+ on housing and then end up surprised when they lose space that they had been using and had furnished, is not good for business. It's a trust thing.

I totally agree. Hubby and I have been loyal to ESO since 2014, and not only did we each purchase the furnished cavern from the Crown store but each of us purchased two other furnished houses from the Crown store. We planned on purchasing others as well, but after what they did and their BS excuse for doing so we have decide to no longer support ZOS by giving them any more of our money.

Looking at my account billing history, I have spent $327.91 on purchasing Crown packs since February 28, 2017 and that doesn't count the $77.94 I spent on January 22, 2017 for my six month Plus subscription. My hubby has spent the same amount as we always purchase the same crowns at the same time. So basically that's $811.70 that ZOS has gotten from us in five months. That's not counting all the Crown packs we have purchased since the first pack we bought on March 26, 2015.

And before anyone has something smart*** to say about what we have spent, we can afford it and it's our money and we do what we want with it, as you do what you want with yours.

My point is that because of the way ZOS has treated the players that are paying their salaries, we will not be giving them any more of our money and I know of at least 22 friends and guildmates who will be doing the same. The word is spreading all over social media and forums and I suspect there will be many others following suit.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror is this how you want new and existing players to feel about purchasing products from the Crown Store and about how you support the people who pay to keep this game going and pay your salaries?

Lady_Rosabella

Triumviri wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Triumviri wrote: »

That is the thing. It was not intended. No access was to be given to said space whether or not one could simply walk I to it.

They removed the access. Its over deal with it.

You must not have read the thread and looked at all the pretty pictures. They didnt just wall of a small area. They took a large portion of it in some areas.

Good. It was not intended.

You really do not know what you are talking about do you? The took away livable space on the INSIDE of the cavern to supposedly prevent people from accessing the "UNPLAYABLE" "OUTSIDE" of the cavern. Instead of putting up an invisible wall to prevent someone from getting outside (which was never an issued as it has been proven that no one could get outside), they dropped big boulders down, landing on a lot of players furnishings, and waited 20 days after their first response to explain why they did it. Speaking of the first response, it seems no one at ZOS knew why the boulders were there to begin with.

And yes, everyone knows how to retrieve their items as the housing editor is not very complex to use, but the answer and the solution they used for this supposedly access to outside is totally bogus and wrong.