THE PROCALYPSE

Waffennacht · June 2017

akray21 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Now I wish I'd screenshotted my death recap against a certain BGs group. Oblivion damage, viper, oblivion damage, heavy attack, viper. Much fun to play against.

We still won the Deathmatch.

You won, so it's no OP...

Well he is Kena...

Czirne · June 2017

I'm sorry to say this, but we all have to run these set in bgs, so Zenimax can collect data and adjust them accordingly. Lets do it. Starting now, anyone there without proc set should be reported

Anti_Virus · June 2017

@Sandman929

Just realized that was a micro aggression. Also remembered your name from that thread long time ago. Some people just have grudges.

Hello again

!

FearlessOne_2014 · June 2017

Czirne wrote: »

I'm sorry to say this, but we all have to run these set in bgs, so Zenimax can collect data and adjust them accordingly. Lets do it. Starting now, anyone there without proc set should be reported

Meh I rather just not stress anymore and play ESO as it's intended. And when I want solid competitive skilled based PvP. I'll turn on Smite or even Paragon for that matter.

ESO will just end up being another stereotypical MMO far as PvP is concerned. (MMOs are the worst games to expect decent PvP from. No balance. Balance Patches take a long long time to pop. And even then the game is still not balance because, they trying to balance the same skills for both PvP and PvE at the same time. Which will not work anyways.)

Outside of grinding needed PvE skills from Alliance War trees. I guess you take this as my formal resignation from this game's PvP affairs. Too many unskilled gimmicks, too little player input for success needed. The whole Proc and Poison and win type META, ZOS really really want to force us into. I'm not about that life.

I was really really looking forwards towards BGs. However with the way BGs have been implemented. Have lefted me completely salty, tilted, and nearly ready to vomit at the thought.

10/10 Will not recommend ESO to any of my buddies who are currently looking for a decent PvP in a MMO. None exist.

Sorry but not sorry!

Sandman929 · June 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@Sandman929

Just realized that was a micro aggression. Also remembered your name from that thread long time ago. Some people just have grudges.

Hello again !

I don't remember a previous conversation, but there was no aggression from me here. I agreed completely with what you wrote and just tacked on a little sarcasm of my own. People don't like when heavy armor users do damage and they don't like it when they don't do damage either.

Fake Remedy · June 2017

Czirne wrote: »

I'm sorry to say this, but we all have to run these set in bgs, so Zenimax can collect data and adjust them accordingly. Lets do it. Starting now, anyone there without proc set should be reported

/report @czirne

Seriously though from myself and other Non-CP Cyrodil PvP players who have been living in a free damage, heal, resource, offensive and defensive buff gaming environment for a long time. . Welcome to the forgotten realm of Non-CP (indirectly affected by CP balances) PvP!

P.S Battlegrounds EU are awesome!

scipionumatia · June 2017

How about we add a set that has a 5 piece bonus of "X% chance to reflect proc damage back on attacker every X seconds". make it 100% chance every 2 seconds for all I care.

inB4 "shouldn't have to wear a whole set to counter a play style"

shield breaker is a set to deal with the issue of damage shields, so wear the set or don't.

Moglijuana · June 2017

mmmmmmmpirateskeletonOP

Waffennacht · June 2017

Moglijuana wrote: »

mmmmmmmpirateskeletonOP

I'm gonna slap you with a trout

Lol, at least troll king hasn't been named yet...

Or has it? Bum bum bum

Ahzek · June 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

mmmmmmmpirateskeletonOP

I'm gonna slap you with a trout

Lol, at least troll king hasn't been named yet...

Or has it? Bum bum bum

We had troll king already. Burn that thing with fire btw (and the guy wearing it with it).

Moglijuana · June 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

mmmmmmmpirateskeletonOP

I'm gonna slap you with a trout

Lol, at least troll king hasn't been named yet...

Or has it? Bum bum bum

I prefer like, seared tuna, or like some blackened swordfish...

Lol. But hey, if every proc-hero wants to wear offensive procs and get carried, let them go for it. At least let me wear some defensive procs in Light Armor. I'm already at a disadvantage sticking with MDK...which makes it that much sweeter when I kill all these L33T PR0 MLG proc-heros.

Anti_Virus · June 2017

Sandman929 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@Sandman929

Just realized that was a micro aggression. Also remembered your name from that thread long time ago. Some people just have grudges.

Hello again !

I don't remember a previous conversation, but there was no aggression from me here. I agreed completely with what you wrote and just tacked on a little sarcasm of my own. People don't like when heavy armor users do damage and they don't like it when they don't do damage either.

Oh ok nvm then. Yeah

Draekony · June 2017

yeah guys we need MLG for battlegrounds, lets go pro.

rimmidimdim · June 2017

Someone said only crafted sets for PvP. I ok with that idea, maybe a week trial would be cool at least. But what about the jewelry? Just none? Anyway we should try it to see How it goes. Cheers.

Czirne · June 2017

Fake Remedy wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

I'm sorry to say this, but we all have to run these set in bgs, so Zenimax can collect data and adjust them accordingly. Lets do it. Starting now, anyone there without proc set should be reported

/report @czirne

Seriously though from myself and other Non-CP Cyrodil PvP players who have been living in a free damage, heal, resource, offensive and defensive buff gaming environment for a long time. . Welcome to the forgotten realm of Non-CP (indirectly affected by CP balances) PvP!

P.S Battlegrounds EU are awesome!

Yes, battlegrounds are fun! And it will be even more fun, I just got impenetrable Troll King, it's time to became cancerous in the name of balance!

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Procs are the only thing that are killing some builds on BGs. If they are not nerfing inmortal permablock tanks and the crosshealing templars ***, i prefer them to keep the proctarding. As long as people can permablock, spam the 1h/s ultimate, spam block-cast BoL, etc, procs are going to be needed.

That line of thought just encourages people, especially new players, to run those tanky builds. Tanky setups were nerfed. Heavy was nerfed. Blocking was nerfed. I've done a ton of battlegrounds and have yet to come across someone nearly as tanky as they used to be - especially so since BGs are no-cp so that means no shadow ward, etc.

No dude, not even close. Players will always run tank builds becase less tanky require more experience and skill to survive, and ppl is afraid to die in this game, is just a more forgiving playstyle (that happends to be ideal when you are in group). Tanking didn't got nerfed and blocking didn't got nerfed, i can still permblock in nonCP withouth putting any strain in my stam poll, in fact with some setups permablock is easier than previous patch. That being said, one dude being tanky is not a problem and never was, but in BGs you will find groups with tanky crosshealing templars that you won't be able to kill unless you have an specific 4-man team setup to counter that. For pickup or random groups, bursting with procs is the only real counter to those setups.

I'm not defending proc sets, but if they are going to change them they need to change other stuff too. Just nerfing procs and leaving the rest of the game as is, will empower and arise new problems. People fail to realize the bigger picture when asking for nerfs, handpicking and nerfing things withouth having a more general goal of where to aim with balance won't solve anything. If people thing that procs are the problem with BGs, then they need to think better, the problems with BGs are far more complex than just proc sets.

So when players make a dps build out of heavy its OP and needs to be nerfed followed by the phrase " Tanks should not deal damage".

Then when players make a straight up tank no damage unkillable build there are scrubs and cancer which one is it?

Procs gotta scale off weapon damage. Not max stamina either since tank builds tend to scale heavily into that for specific passives (more so dk's/red guards).

Tanks who tank and do no damage are fine imo... but when a tank can run 1 proc set and be given the burst to easily kill off squishy targets its kinda dumb.

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Someone said only crafted sets for PvP. I ok with that idea, maybe a week trial would be cool at least. But what about the jewelry? Just none? Anyway we should try it to see How it goes. Cheers.

Not all the crafted sets are balanced. We got clever alchemist, eternal hunt, tavas favor... those would become popular pretty quick and you would still have annoying kiting nightblades, shield ult spamming perma blockers and large burst to due clever alch.

Crafted sets only is not the answer trust me. I personally don't find proc sets that bad. Double Vipers cooldown and make it a ganking niche set. Reduce damage of most monster helms and reduce cooldown to solve burst. Theres plenty of ideas and thoughts that need to go into this, not just blatantly nerfing everything. Theres a ton of problems.

Didgerion · June 2017

Jules wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Proc sets are needed - they add build variety into the game.

If by "variety" you mean absolutely no variety bc their damage is so good it outclasses literally everything.

I'm not telling that Proc sets are well designed or balanced.

Proc sets needs to be seriously re-balanced but definitely not removed from the game!

Proc damage has to be shifted - it has to be less bursty but keep your dps higher. This way it will be useful in PVE and balanced in PVP.

Uncle_Sweetshare · June 2017

Quoting myself here (TL;DR Below)

Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »

Personally, I think the issue comes from multiple players on same teams running multiple unavoidable burst damage procs (Such as Viper, Red Mountain, etc.), and the fact that these sets deal damage outside of your rotation. By that, I mean they can go off during other animations, and don't require an additional key to be pressed or skill to be slotted. Because they're all unavoidable damage that happens outside of your normal rotation, nothing has to be sacrificed in order for them to work. For those reasons I believe that the damage for these sets need to be lowered, the cooldown extended, or the damage changed from DD to DoT.

Next in line would be burst procs that are avoidable, such as Velidreth, Selene, or Widowmaker (which surprisingly hasn't been brought up often here). These sets aren't always avoidable due to CC, no Stamina to dodge, etc., but they are avoidable. Now, let's take Velidreth and compare it to Selene. Velidreth is easily avoidable (the center ball not so much, but for sake of argument) and has a long cooldown, so there's not too much hate on it in here. Selene is also avoidable, but because it hits hard and is on a short cooldown, it gets lots of hate here. Personally, I think the damage on these sets should be slightly lowered, and the cooldowns semi-equalized (so there isn't a clear BiS).

Then we have the DoT procs, and to no one's surprise, there's not a lot of hate on these. Grothdarr procs? Walk away, but if you don't it's okay because you can pop Vigor to out heal the damage. Illambris procs? Get out of the circle, or stand in it and pop Vigor to out heal the damage. Scourge Harvester procs? Stand there in bewilderment that someone is running Scourge Harvester, and pop Vigor to out heal the damage. These sets just aren't very effective in PvP, and I think that they fine in terms of numbers, but would be more viable if the burst set numbers were lowered.

Lastly, we have support proc sets. These also don't get a lot of hate because they all complement builds instead of being the build. You can't exactly make a build that revolves entirely around Pirate Skeleton or Lord Warden (Troll King is the rare exception here), but they're great additional effects to have. On the other hand, there are plenty of builds that revolve around Selene/ Viper/ Widowmaker, where the rest of the build doesn't matter as long as you have a gap closer and CC. Personally I think the support sets are fine where they are, numbers wise.

Long story short, the issue with proc sets isn't proc sets as a whole, but the burst damage procs and the fact that they do massive amounts of damage outside your rotation. I think any time there are clear, across-the-board BiS items for anything (tanking, DPS, healing, etc.), those items need to be reevaluated and tweaked so there isn't a clear BiS.

TL;DR: Unavoidable burst procs (Viper/ Red Mountain type) need their damage lowered and/or cooldown raised and/or damage changed to DoT, avoidable burst damage procs (Selene/ Widowmaker/ Velidreth type) need their damage slightly lowered and cooldowns equalized, DoT procs (Illambris/ Grothdarr type) are fine, and support procs (Pirate Skeleton/ Lord Warden type) are fine (excluding Troll King which needs its regen lowered).

Also, proc sets should scale based on Weapon Damage and Stamina, or Spell Power and Magicka. This would slightly lower their effectiveness in non-CP PvP and slightly raise their effectiveness in CP PvP and in PvE.

/thread.

Didgerion · June 2017

Czirne wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Proc sets are needed - they add build variety into the game.

The problem with the proc sets is that they are too bursty.

Let them do same dps but make them less bursty and the problem is fixed.

Also consider adding a cost to the proc effect - free damage does not really cooperate well with the law of physics.

What do you mean by "proc sets adds build variety into the game"? I fail to see build variety when everone is running viper + selene/veli. That is the opposite of variety for christ sake. EVERYONE is running those sets.
Apart from me(spriggan+bone pirate) i know 2 more people in PC-EU that does not run viper. Rest build are literally the same!

Nightblades: Viper, Eternal Hunt, Selene/Veli
DK: Viper, Werewolf hide, Bloodspawn
Stamsorc: Viper, Clever Alchemist/Eternal Hunt/Werewolf Hide, Selene/Veli
Stamplar: Viper, Clever Alchemist/Eternal Hunt/Werewolf Hide, Selene/Veli
Warden: Viper, Clever Alchemist/Eternal Hunt/Werewolf Hide, Selene/Veli

Do you see the pattern? xD

EDIT: I have to admit, sometimes instead of Selene/Veli you meet someone using Tremorscale, but that still does not count as build variety.

I do lot of PVP with my mag sorc. I run a PVE pet build for it which turned to be very effective in PVP too.
I use Necro + VMA resto/destro and Infernal Guardian (proc set).
And my proc set helps me a lot being offensive while in defense.
Also it is not OP and easy avoidable by the enemies.
But it really helps me out to recover from some nasty melee attackers especially when I'm in the execute range.

Also the set helps me to spot some snipers that are flanking me.

That is an example of a build variety and I don't want to see it go.

Mojomonkeyman · June 2017

Czirne wrote: »

Fake Remedy wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

I'm sorry to say this, but we all have to run these set in bgs, so Zenimax can collect data and adjust them accordingly. Lets do it. Starting now, anyone there without proc set should be reported

/report @czirne

Seriously though from myself and other Non-CP Cyrodil PvP players who have been living in a free damage, heal, resource, offensive and defensive buff gaming environment for a long time. . Welcome to the forgotten realm of Non-CP (indirectly affected by CP balances) PvP!

P.S Battlegrounds EU are awesome!

Yes, battlegrounds are fun! And it will be even more fun, I just got impenetrable Troll King, it's time to became cancerous in the name of balance!

Dude, you were running maximum viper/selene cheese the very first day I played BGs, which was 24th of May. You were the very first guy I recognized getting carried by max proc sets since BGs hit EU. Can you please stop pretending this was a sudden, competitive decision due to all others wearing it?

I think your attitude and that of many others contributes just as much to BGs failing hard as the developers lack of insight. ESO is not exactly a PvP popular game in the market, nonetheless a lot of people have decided to give it a second chance with BGs. I alone know of two people (great, dedicated & accomplished PvPers in other games) who gave ESO PvP another try this patch (on my PC).

You know what, they laughed when they realized the top scores in the match got carried by armor sets that would bring more damage output than the skills those people used and left the keyboard to me within just a few hours asking if they can now start their other PvP game again, since ESO is just an even sadder joke than it was 2 years ago. I can only guess that less experienced and thick thinned players would come even earlier to the same conclusion.

Those players won't come back. Cheese exists in every game, but not every game has a player base that is so eager to use the most broken stuff over and over again. There always was 6-pooling et al in starcraft, but the % of players using it was tiny, because players wanted to challenge themselves, they wanted to be truly good, not get carried by cheese.

I just cannot find this attitude in eso, all I see is viper et al.

Izaki · June 2017

Eternal Hunt > Viper when you know how to use it properly and include it in your combos... It does more damage and gives a immobilize.

Artis · June 2017

Nerf procs or nerf stamina. Either of the two must be done. There's no counter play. They kill me with all defensive buffs up. Get caught in CC? That's death. There's no time to cc break - I'm dead within a second or however long the animation takes. One leap - and it's death.

Oh, and I didnt' believe people about animation cancelling. Until today. This stam landed 3 skill and 2 procs in ONE attack. And I'm playing since pre-release. And pvped before 2017 too. It was ONE swing of a sword.

Waffennacht · June 2017

Artis wrote: »

Nerf procs or nerf stamina. Either of the two must be done. There's no counter play. They kill me with all defensive buffs up. Get caught in CC? That's death. There's no time to cc break - I'm dead within a second or however long the animation takes. One leap - and it's death.

Oh, and I didnt' believe people about animation cancelling. Until today. This stam landed 3 skill and 2 procs in ONE attack. And I'm playing since pre-release. And pvped before 2017 too. It was ONE swing of a sword.

That's a long and treacherous road about ACing my friend

Artis · June 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Nerf procs or nerf stamina. Either of the two must be done. There's no counter play. They kill me with all defensive buffs up. Get caught in CC? That's death. There's no time to cc break - I'm dead within a second or however long the animation takes. One leap - and it's death.

Oh, and I didnt' believe people about animation cancelling. Until today. This stam landed 3 skill and 2 procs in ONE attack. And I'm playing since pre-release. And pvped before 2017 too. It was ONE swing of a sword.

That's a long and treacherous road about ACing my friend

I was just laughing and thought people were complaining about simple attack weaving/block cancelling and stuff like that. Which is really just clicking buttons one after another. But no, now I admit I definitely was wrong. I can tell canceling light attacks from what happened to me then.

Czirne · June 2017

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Fake Remedy wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

I'm sorry to say this, but we all have to run these set in bgs, so Zenimax can collect data and adjust them accordingly. Lets do it. Starting now, anyone there without proc set should be reported

/report @czirne

Seriously though from myself and other Non-CP Cyrodil PvP players who have been living in a free damage, heal, resource, offensive and defensive buff gaming environment for a long time. . Welcome to the forgotten realm of Non-CP (indirectly affected by CP balances) PvP!

P.S Battlegrounds EU are awesome!

Yes, battlegrounds are fun! And it will be even more fun, I just got impenetrable Troll King, it's time to became cancerous in the name of balance!

Dude, you were running maximum viper/selene cheese the very first day I played BGs, which was 24th of May. You were the very first guy I recognized getting carried by max proc sets since BGs hit EU. Can you please stop pretending this was a sudden, competitive decision due to all others wearing it?

I think your attitude and that of many others contributes just as much to BGs failing hard as the developers lack of insight. ESO is not exactly a PvP popular game in the market, nonetheless a lot of people have decided to give it a second chance with BGs. I alone know of two people (great, dedicated & accomplished PvPers in other games) who gave ESO PvP another try this patch (on my PC).

You know what, they laughed when they realized the top scores in the match got carried by armor sets that would bring more damage output than the skills those people used and left the keyboard to me within just a few hours asking if they can now start their other PvP game again, since ESO is just an even sadder joke than it was 2 years ago. I can only guess that less experienced and thick thinned players would come even earlier to the same conclusion.

Those players won't come back. Cheese exists in every game, but not every game has a player base that is so eager to use the most broken stuff over and over again. There always was 6-pooling et al in starcraft, but the % of players using it was tiny, because players wanted to challenge themselves, they wanted to be truly good, not get carried by cheese.

I just cannot find this attitude in eso, all I see is viper et al.

I have to disagree with you! I tried Selene on my stamplar 1st day battlegrounds hit, but i was not happy about it being cheesy and did not run it since. You can ask people I am queuing with.
I was wearing Spriggan and Bone pirate since on stamplar. On stam DK i run bloodspawn, seveth legion + powerful assault or bloodspawn, bone pirate and ravager.
But i will be honnest, every day i had a strong urge to put those sets on me, especialy every time i got one shoted by nightblade with selene+viper+widowmaker combo, or every time i met blockplar healbot.
But i agree with you at the rest!

Derra · June 2017

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

I dont like procc sets,

Buff medium btw.

Don't forget about light armor as well ZOS. And if you have to, just nerf them MagSorcs into uselessness. So the rest of the magicka based classes can start moving forward.

They just have to disallow stacking harness + hardened and buff light armors mobility.

This is easy. Just add minor and major shielding as buffs attach all shields in the game to either or. Boom the shield problem solved. Even tho Shield Breaker and Knight Slayer exist, and a anti-shield CP node in CP PvP.

Personally i have absolutely no issue with either knightslayer or shieldbreaker as long as the latter isn´t used on a lightning or resto staff channel build (i think these are broken).

Derra · June 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@Sandman929

Just realized that was a micro aggression. Also remembered your name from that thread long time ago. Some people just have grudges.

Hello again !

:,D mirco agression.

KingYogi415 · June 2017

@jules

I wish you would stop streaming this build and promoting it with threads like these.

There are plenty of other viable dps builds or roles to play. Why not debuff tank or warden support. Let someone who not streaming run the aids.

Using sprig over viper was not a bad choice before. Not sure with the new CP system.

Whats are going to stream next?
4 man Reactive/malubeth templars?

I don't mind people running these builds. But when top streamers hype it, then you are going to mess the game up to the point you don't even want to play anymore.

Signed: -A Sad Panda

P.S. This proc meta is how zos is "raising the floor." And how much are they paying you to make it happen faster?

Derra · June 2017

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Fake Remedy wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

I'm sorry to say this, but we all have to run these set in bgs, so Zenimax can collect data and adjust them accordingly. Lets do it. Starting now, anyone there without proc set should be reported

/report @czirne

Seriously though from myself and other Non-CP Cyrodil PvP players who have been living in a free damage, heal, resource, offensive and defensive buff gaming environment for a long time. . Welcome to the forgotten realm of Non-CP (indirectly affected by CP balances) PvP!

P.S Battlegrounds EU are awesome!

Yes, battlegrounds are fun! And it will be even more fun, I just got impenetrable Troll King, it's time to became cancerous in the name of balance!

Dude, you were running maximum viper/selene cheese the very first day I played BGs, which was 24th of May. You were the very first guy I recognized getting carried by max proc sets since BGs hit EU. Can you please stop pretending this was a sudden, competitive decision due to all others wearing it?

I think your attitude and that of many others contributes just as much to BGs failing hard as the developers lack of insight. ESO is not exactly a PvP popular game in the market, nonetheless a lot of people have decided to give it a second chance with BGs. I alone know of two people (great, dedicated & accomplished PvPers in other games) who gave ESO PvP another try this patch (on my PC).

You know what, they laughed when they realized the top scores in the match got carried by armor sets that would bring more damage output than the skills those people used and left the keyboard to me within just a few hours asking if they can now start their other PvP game again, since ESO is just an even sadder joke than it was 2 years ago. I can only guess that less experienced and thick thinned players would come even earlier to the same conclusion.

Those players won't come back. Cheese exists in every game, but not every game has a player base that is so eager to use the most broken stuff over and over again. There always was 6-pooling et al in starcraft, but the % of players using it was tiny, because players wanted to challenge themselves, they wanted to be truly good, not get carried by cheese.

I just cannot find this attitude in eso, all I see is viper et al.

To be fair 3 racks was pretty common "cheese" for the first months of sc2 until it got eventually patched.

On a different note: We still can´t manage to get the grpqueue to work. Isn´t that fun. Still 3BGs total played bc the queuefeature just doesn´t work.

Moglijuana · June 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Eternal Hunt > Viper when you know how to use it properly and include it in your combos... It does more damage and gives a immobilize.

But Eternal Hunt requires skill and timing to use correctly in order for it to be better than Viper...who wants to use skill and timing in a pvp game? *cough* not the Devs *cough*