Eye of flame has ruined pvp

Koolio · May 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

To all those talking about not running into the big read circle: Streak. I roll-dodge, they streak to me. roll-dodge doesn't negate ground targeted AoE. I can't root them since they've got an immovability pot on them. I try and cloak to vanish and evade them but the AoE knocks me outta stealth.

I'd assume the same would be an issue for a magNB using Lotus Fan to keep up.

If you could stun them,root them, knock them back, yeah, there's conuterplay. but if you can't move them in any manner, and they can dash to your location, you gotta hope you're tanky or can heal through it.

Also, I haven't tested it, but if you bar a lightning staff on one bar, fire on another, use the fire destro ulti, then swap to the lightning staff, is the ulti damage still increased on top of the 8% AoE damage increase from the lightning staff?

Immovable potions don't stop roots.

Nightblades have the best ultimate to counter a destro ult. Just slot it and hold onto it just in case. This ultimate is called Bolstering Darkness. It gives 60% damage reduction to you and 30% to everyone. It has a great heal for teammates and 70% snare to enemies. From reading on here (not you in particular) everyone want to run their build without changing anything and just nerf this ultimate so they can when a easy change can help so much.

It's strong. It's expensive. I get it but damn. Any nightblade not running Bolstering Darkness hads no right to complain about destro ultimates.

AhPook_Is_Here · May 2017

Koolio wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

To all those talking about not running into the big read circle: Streak. I roll-dodge, they streak to me. roll-dodge doesn't negate ground targeted AoE. I can't root them since they've got an immovability pot on them. I try and cloak to vanish and evade them but the AoE knocks me outta stealth.

I'd assume the same would be an issue for a magNB using Lotus Fan to keep up.

If you could stun them,root them, knock them back, yeah, there's conuterplay. but if you can't move them in any manner, and they can dash to your location, you gotta hope you're tanky or can heal through it.

Also, I haven't tested it, but if you bar a lightning staff on one bar, fire on another, use the fire destro ulti, then swap to the lightning staff, is the ulti damage still increased on top of the 8% AoE damage increase from the lightning staff?

Immovable potions don't stop roots.

Nightblades have the best ultimate to counter a destro ult. Just slot it and hold onto it just in case. This ultimate is called Bolstering Darkness. It gives 60% damage reduction to you and 30% to everyone. It has a great heal for teammates and 70% snare to enemies. From reading on here (not you in particular) everyone want to run their build without changing anything and just nerf this ultimate so they can when a easy change can help so much.

It's strong. It's expensive. I get it but damn. Any nightblade not running Bolstering Darkness hads no right to complain about destro ultimates.

Negate. Poof.

Koolio · May 2017

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

To all those talking about not running into the big read circle: Streak. I roll-dodge, they streak to me. roll-dodge doesn't negate ground targeted AoE. I can't root them since they've got an immovability pot on them. I try and cloak to vanish and evade them but the AoE knocks me outta stealth.

I'd assume the same would be an issue for a magNB using Lotus Fan to keep up.

If you could stun them,root them, knock them back, yeah, there's conuterplay. but if you can't move them in any manner, and they can dash to your location, you gotta hope you're tanky or can heal through it.

Also, I haven't tested it, but if you bar a lightning staff on one bar, fire on another, use the fire destro ulti, then swap to the lightning staff, is the ulti damage still increased on top of the 8% AoE damage increase from the lightning staff?

Immovable potions don't stop roots.

Nightblades have the best ultimate to counter a destro ult. Just slot it and hold onto it just in case. This ultimate is called Bolstering Darkness. It gives 60% damage reduction to you and 30% to everyone. It has a great heal for teammates and 70% snare to enemies. From reading on here (not you in particular) everyone want to run their build without changing anything and just nerf this ultimate so they can when a easy change can help so much.

It's strong. It's expensive. I get it but damn. Any nightblade not running Bolstering Darkness hads no right to complain about destro ultimates.

Negate. Poof.

The destro ultimate casts a negate?

Juli'St · May 2017

To solve all the problems, I suggest the creation of the skill 'atomic bomb', so we can use campaigns to 'do it' according to our will and no longer as something privileging guilds.

As you know, immense majority of those entering Cyrodiil, enter to learn PvP (something that ZOS seems to hate).

With the intention - or not - of definitively ruining any possibility of a good combat, ZOS created so-called 'destros' and with them, super builds that are only destroyed by Rambo or Chuck Noris (it seems that even this one can no longer overcome the 'super builds' '). Fact is that, good battles, those that teach us the most by the time of duration, ended definitively in Cyrodiil. There are 'zergs', with countless destros, superbuilds, etc ...

But who cares about good combat when we can definitely end it in 3 seconds?

Therefore, to improve this 'extraordinary' view on PvP, I propose the skill Atomic Bomb. Press a simple button and kill everyone.

[Contains certain irony]

Avran_Sylt · June 2017

Koolio wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

To all those talking about not running into the big read circle: Streak. I roll-dodge, they streak to me. roll-dodge doesn't negate ground targeted AoE. I can't root them since they've got an immovability pot on them. I try and cloak to vanish and evade them but the AoE knocks me outta stealth.

I'd assume the same would be an issue for a magNB using Lotus Fan to keep up.

If you could stun them,root them, knock them back, yeah, there's conuterplay. but if you can't move them in any manner, and they can dash to your location, you gotta hope you're tanky or can heal through it.

Also, I haven't tested it, but if you bar a lightning staff on one bar, fire on another, use the fire destro ulti, then swap to the lightning staff, is the ulti damage still increased on top of the 8% AoE damage increase from the lightning staff?

Immovable potions don't stop roots.

Nightblades have the best ultimate to counter a destro ult. Just slot it and hold onto it just in case. This ultimate is called Bolstering Darkness. It gives 60% damage reduction to you and 30% to everyone. It has a great heal for teammates and 70% snare to enemies. From reading on here (not you in particular) everyone want to run their build without changing anything and just nerf this ultimate so they can when a easy change can help so much.

It's strong. It's expensive. I get it but damn. Any nightblade not running Bolstering Darkness hads no right to complain about destro ultimates.

Are you sure immovable pots don't stop roots? It says in the tooltip that it makes you immune to knockback and disabling effects. Roots do disable movement, so I'd think they fall under that category. Though I can't say I've readily tested it.

Gilvoth · June 2017

apostate9 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i cant even see if im in it, untill im dead.
the destruction staff ultimate is just stupid

Giant. Red. Circle.

that red circle does not load.
people don't see it. it just does not load.
especially if alot of people are around

ManwithBeard9 · June 2017

I think Cheat Engine has been worse for PvP

Gilvoth · June 2017

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i cant even see if im in it, untill im dead.
the destruction staff ultimate is just stupid

Giant. Red. Circle.

that red circle does not load.
people don't see it. it just does not load.
especially if alot of people are around

i cant even see if im in it, untill im dead.
the destruction staff ultimate is just stupid

TheDoomsdayMonster · June 2017

I've got mixed feelings on wether Eye of the Flame is OP or not...

On one hand, its very, very, powerful and can wipe out numbers of players that no other Ultimate can touch (especially when coordinated)...

On the other hand (and this goes to Magicka vs Stamina in general), Stamina builds get to use poisons while using their very potent abilities in close quarters combat...

Unless you are supertanky (and thus neglect damage dealing) or are stacking damage shields (Sorcs do this better than anyone else), a strong Stamina build using poisons will absolutely wreck a Magicka player in close quarters combat...

What other options do Magicka players have to kill strong Stamina players?

Due to gap closers and roots/snares you cant really range a strong Stamina player as Magicka (unless you are a damage shield stacking sorc)...

And because of poisons, close quarters combat is very risky as Magicka when facing a Stamina player...

Having a Magicka Templar as my main, I've concluded that Destro Ult is one of the few things that gives a Magicka build the advantage against a strong Stamina build...

And once again, this is from the point of view of a Magicka Templar...

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

How many threads must be made to preserve the fun factor in pvp...? Eye of the Storm has been to strong for to long. Double the duration and half the damage. An ulty that deals fire damage and deals twice as much as bat swarm is disgustingly strong.... from a developer point of view it doesnt even make sense why its been this strong for so long. Elemental Rage can keep the damage since its easily avoidable...

Its honestly boring defending or assaulting keeps because of eye of the storm.

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

Koolio wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

To all those talking about not running into the big read circle: Streak. I roll-dodge, they streak to me. roll-dodge doesn't negate ground targeted AoE. I can't root them since they've got an immovability pot on them. I try and cloak to vanish and evade them but the AoE knocks me outta stealth.

I'd assume the same would be an issue for a magNB using Lotus Fan to keep up.

If you could stun them,root them, knock them back, yeah, there's conuterplay. but if you can't move them in any manner, and they can dash to your location, you gotta hope you're tanky or can heal through it.

Also, I haven't tested it, but if you bar a lightning staff on one bar, fire on another, use the fire destro ulti, then swap to the lightning staff, is the ulti damage still increased on top of the 8% AoE damage increase from the lightning staff?

Immovable potions don't stop roots.

Nightblades have the best ultimate to counter a destro ult. Just slot it and hold onto it just in case. This ultimate is called Bolstering Darkness. It gives 60% damage reduction to you and 30% to everyone. It has a great heal for teammates and 70% snare to enemies. From reading on here (not you in particular) everyone want to run their build without changing anything and just nerf this ultimate so they can when a easy change can help so much.

It's strong. It's expensive. I get it but damn. Any nightblade not running Bolstering Darkness hads no right to complain about destro ultimates.

You think bolstering will counter eots.... smh. 30% mitigation wont save your allies, 60% might but its still not enough in group vs group situations.

The correct ultimate a nightblade could use is Soul Siphon. A 15k burst heal with a 30k HoT and 4 second Major Vitality. This ultimate will save you and your allies.

However you cant ignore the fact Eye of the Storm is blatantly overpowered and abused by the player base because its too strong. This is like when proxi was overbuffed all over again. Anyone defending it does not know what good game balance is.

Pwnyridah · June 2017

Its called stealth out, spread out and you have nothing to worry about. I have no challenges when eye of stormers come at my group.

AhPook_Is_Here · June 2017

Koolio wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

To all those talking about not running into the big read circle: Streak. I roll-dodge, they streak to me. roll-dodge doesn't negate ground targeted AoE. I can't root them since they've got an immovability pot on them. I try and cloak to vanish and evade them but the AoE knocks me outta stealth.

I'd assume the same would be an issue for a magNB using Lotus Fan to keep up.

If you could stun them,root them, knock them back, yeah, there's conuterplay. but if you can't move them in any manner, and they can dash to your location, you gotta hope you're tanky or can heal through it.

Also, I haven't tested it, but if you bar a lightning staff on one bar, fire on another, use the fire destro ulti, then swap to the lightning staff, is the ulti damage still increased on top of the 8% AoE damage increase from the lightning staff?

Immovable potions don't stop roots.

Nightblades have the best ultimate to counter a destro ult. Just slot it and hold onto it just in case. This ultimate is called Bolstering Darkness. It gives 60% damage reduction to you and 30% to everyone. It has a great heal for teammates and 70% snare to enemies. From reading on here (not you in particular) everyone want to run their build without changing anything and just nerf this ultimate so they can when a easy change can help so much.

It's strong. It's expensive. I get it but damn. Any nightblade not running Bolstering Darkness hads no right to complain about destro ultimates.

Negate. Poof.

The destro ultimate casts a negate?

no, one of the 6 sorcs in the 24 man stack, the DKs have EoS covered. But try it, and bring a templar, i think you can stack BD's damage reduction with solar prison.

STEVIL · June 2017

Mephisto939 wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing you can do when a group of flamers bomb you. It's gotten ridiculous.

this is not possible... eye of flame is a relatively new introduction and there were scores of "blah blah ruined" and " yahdee yahdde killed" PVP threads before Eye ever came into being so... if it was ruined those scores of times before and if it were killed those scores of times before then you cannot pin this on eye of flame, not matter how many well paid witnesses.

Now, if you want to say that all those scores of "ruined" and "dead" PVP threads were wrong then you have to ask - "what makes this thread any more likely to be right than they were"?

Lord_Eomer · June 2017

Mephisto939 wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

Warraxx wrote: »

ALERT! someone died in Cyrodiil...

Right?

And there was nothing, and I mean NOTHING anyone could have possibly done. There was literally no conceivable way the poster or his starchy allies could have:

- Cast major expedition
- Thrown down AOE heals
- Cast stone giant on the guy with the ulti and walked away
- Cast a damage shield
- Used talons, encase, caltrops or fossilize on the caster and moved
- Killed the guy in center of the red circle
- Roll dodged

I do kick off my AOE heals and healing ultimate. I can heal through damn near anything, but not 4 or 5 flamers simultaneously.

And yes zerg healers need to go and EOTS is the weapon!

Berenhir · June 2017

I thought meanwhile everybody would have adapted to that skill.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

To all those talking about not running into the big read circle: Streak. I roll-dodge, they streak to me. roll-dodge doesn't negate ground targeted AoE. I can't root them since they've got an immovability pot on them. I try and cloak to vanish and evade them but the AoE knocks me outta stealth.

I'd assume the same would be an issue for a magNB using Lotus Fan to keep up.

If you could stun them,root them, knock them back, yeah, there's conuterplay. but if you can't move them in any manner, and they can dash to your location, you gotta hope you're tanky or can heal through it.

Also, I haven't tested it, but if you bar a lightning staff on one bar, fire on another, use the fire destro ulti, then swap to the lightning staff, is the ulti damage still increased on top of the 8% AoE damage increase from the lightning staff?

Immovable potions don't stop roots.

Nightblades have the best ultimate to counter a destro ult. Just slot it and hold onto it just in case. This ultimate is called Bolstering Darkness. It gives 60% damage reduction to you and 30% to everyone. It has a great heal for teammates and 70% snare to enemies. From reading on here (not you in particular) everyone want to run their build without changing anything and just nerf this ultimate so they can when a easy change can help so much.

It's strong. It's expensive. I get it but damn. Any nightblade not running Bolstering Darkness hads no right to complain about destro ultimates.

Are you sure immovable pots don't stop roots? It says in the tooltip that it makes you immune to knockback and disabling effects. Roots do disable movement, so I'd think they fall under that category. Though I can't say I've readily tested it.

Immovability pots give you CC Immunity which does not apply to any roots or slows. However, Mistform, shuffle and forward momentum give immunity to most roots.

Vapirko · June 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

In this thread: People who get farmed by ball groups.

Heres a tip, if you dont wanna get farmed by these groups....dont put yourself in a position where you could get farmed by em. Guilds like this are extremely deadly but also extremely predictable because they are tethered to crown like dogs on a leash.

Sure if theyre on the top of a resource tower or something. But these groups frequently run trains through keeps to take them and at that point you dont have much choice.

agegarton · June 2017

It's a great Ult, which is why it's also the most expensive Ult.

I agree, it's all too common for the red circle to be absent, especially if the area is very busy. That said, you can still see your health bar dropping rapidly. You have to learn to react to that - heal, roll away, etc. Also, as has been mentioned here many times, there are plenty of ways to counter.

I have found, especially in the closed confines of a keep, that groups which choose to (literally) fight fire with fire often break the cycle - players tend to switch skills to match the opposition.

I hate to say this, because I almost always disagree when people chuck "L2P" out there on these forums, but this really is an issue of learning to avoid and counter the skill.

Or, you know.........die with dignity

flguy147ub17_ESO · June 2017

I just now literally dodge rolled to get out of it but that dont work. The circle is WAY too big to dodge roll out of. Tonight i have PVP on Xbox and literally every single fight has been Zerg Eye of the Flame. If it isnt better by the weekend i wont be buying Morrowind. Been playing since PC Beta, this is worse then the Vamp Bat Swarm at PC launch. I could still get great fights throughout the night then. I have been playing 3 hours now and havent had even ONE fight without getting zerged down with Eye of the Flame. Worst crap i have ever seen in a MMO.

Arthg · June 2017

The issue for me is not so much whether you're l33t enough to always escape from the EYE (in spite of the gap closers and roots and the multiple EYES), but rather that in terms of "tactics" (resorted to by farming guilds and 'small-scalers' alike), retreating when building ulti, charging when everybody's ulti is up (the EYES and NEGATES) - well, it's poor.

afonik · June 2017

Casting Eye of the Flame should reduce caster speed by 30%. The balance advantages are pretty obvious: higher dmg, higher risk.

Mazbt · June 2017

stay on crown ball groups may have a lot of damage and heals but it's centred around crown....so they are really stacked. Also builds aren't all that sustainable if someone falls behind since damage is big priority. Bombblades are especially rekt when isolated from group or found with their pants down out in the open. (been there).

So I'm saying there are ways to counter these destro bomb groups...and since focus is on aoes use mitigations like blade cloak. or shield up if you are magicka.

Vapirko · June 2017

afonik wrote: »

Casting Eye of the Flame should reduce caster speed by 30%. The balance advantages are pretty obvious: higher dmg, higher risk.

I like this idea.

afonik · June 2017

Vapirko wrote: »

afonik wrote: »

Casting Eye of the Flame should reduce caster speed by 30%. The balance advantages are pretty obvious: higher dmg, higher risk.

I like this idea.

Reduce the Pain Train speed

InvitationNotFound · June 2017

lol what some people are writing here...

if you run solo or in a small group, don't complain. You would have died anyway if they would have thrown anything coordinated at you. Take dawnbreaker or any other ulti. Yet, this ulti allows some small groups or solo players to have an impact on such groups...

it's not their fault if you don't want to run in a coordinated group. it is your choice, don't expect everyone has to play like you. what's fun for you isn't necessarily fun for others.

if you run in a coordinated group but do complain, you should work on your group's setup / coordination. if you aren't willing to do that, stop complaining as it is your fault (it doesn't mean you have to play the same way).

coming up with ideas like "let only 2 eots stack" and things like that is really stupid, if you go for that, apply it to all utlis. there's no reason i should be hit by 5+ ice comets (yes, that happend quite a few times, even this year where people could have used eots) at the same time but other ultis wouldn't hit with their full strength.

reduction of movement speed falls into the same category. remove mobility when casting ultis in general or let it be as it is.

cyrodiil is an AvA area, which means you should expect 12+ people running around coordinated. if that's an issue for you, you should probably do something else as it is a main part of what cyrodiil is (huge battles - at least advertised as that a long time ago...). it was never meant as a 1vs1 or 4vs4 area (while these are still valid play styles there).

lakaisl · June 2017

Koolio wrote: »

Nightblade:Bolstering Darkness/Soul Siphon
Dk:Magma/Corrosive Armor/Standard
Templar:Nova/remembrance
Sorc: Negate

These are the counter ultimates your group needs to have. Any of these will make the difference especially Sorc Templar and Nightblade ultimates.

What about Warden :'(

dsalter · June 2017

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I find it funny when the weapon ultimates got revealed that the destro ulti got ripped apart for being useless, now people can't live without it.

the ulti itself was useless but this morph isnt.
anything thats got an AoE range of 8+, follows you and can be stacked is a disease that zergs will embrace.

Carbonised · June 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I find it funny when the weapon ultimates got revealed that the destro ulti got ripped apart for being useless, now people can't live without it.

If the Destro Ult, specifically EoTS, had been released the way it was originally designed on PTS it would have been useless in Cyrodiil for the most part since the DPS would have been about the same as BatSwarm but without any secondary effects like heals. What I remember from the comments on it during that PTS cycle is that most players were not happy because they wanted a strong single target ult for Destruction Staves. But of course the "fix" implemented by the Devs was not what people were asking for and so what we got was an AOE ult that is completely OP when used by coordinated groups.

Even after the latest changes it was still called a trash and useless ult, also what you are refering to what most players wanted is nothing but entirely subjective, not warrant a valid complain.

Yes, pts forums vs eots was the largest blunder we've ever seen, they've never been so wrong. Well maybe they will now, after massive whine regarding sustain nerf, we'll see about that

I see this urban legen repeated time and time over, usually with someone like you gloating with glee that "omg, the forum ragers were so wrong, how delightful".

I was on the PTS, I participated in the destro ult discussion, and here is the real facts (not the fake news you and others present whenever we discuss destro ult):

1) Most of the outrage regarding destro ult was regarding the FIRST iteration of the ultimate, one that ticked much, much slower and thus dealth much less damage per second (DPS) than the one we had now. Essentialy, Wrobel & co. acknowledged that this version of the ult was underperforming, and thus reduced the time it ticked by half, while ticking for much more damage - thus increasing the DPS of the skill. So all the "forum rage" you describe wasn't directed at the current version, it was directed at the first version, which was indeed much less viable in PvP.

2) Most of the outrage regarding destro ult wasn't directed against Eye of the Storm morph. Many people acknowledged that it had potential in PvP (after it got buffed to the second version, that is, the first version of Eye was still a poor man's bats). The outrage was actually directed at the other morph, the non-moving one. And counting number by number, that morph of destro ult STILL does LESS overall damage than several other popular ults, such as DK Banner and Shooting Star. Hence those ults are STILL better in most PvE environments, especially since they come with lots of secondary effects that Destro ult does not have. Arguably destro ult in most PvE scenarios is therefore outperformed by other ults.

3) We have since had (much needed) buffs to destro staff that also became buffs to destro ult, for instance the lightning staff increase of all AOE damage. That was NOT present at the time destro ult was tested on PTS.

This you need to take into consideration before rubbing your sweaty hands together in glee over all the stupid PTS people who were so wrong about destro ult. Fact is, the Rage morph is still mediocre at best in a PvE environment, and the Eye morph's only saving grace is its large area and the fact that it follows the player.

If anything, the area for the Eye morph only could be reduced a bit further (it has already been reduced once), or the Eye morph could have a more slow damage build up (keeping overall total damage, but decreasing the speed in which it is delivered), something of a middle ground between the 1st PTS version of Eye and the 2nd one we have now.
This alone would do much to silence the destro ult PvP whiners.

The other morph, Rage, should be left as is, all the main concerns from the PTS still apply to that one.

Hempyre · June 2017

When I see 4,5,6 guys running in with red circles I mist and move away, or hit an invis pot and move or whatever, its really not hard to get away from them. Situational awareness. Don't wait till the last minute.

Peeps really need to stop with the nerf bat calls on simple stuff that isn't broken.

Hate to pull this out, but it really is an L2P issue.

Nermy · June 2017

I really don't get people who keep complaining about this ulti. It's really easy to counter and there are loads of methods posted here.

Sorry but L2P...