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2 Person VMA Option Would Benefit ESO

GrumpyDuckling
GrumpyDuckling
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ESO would benefit from the option to enter Veteran Maelstrom Arena as a group of 2 players because it allows for a more fun experience, grants access to tank and healer builds, and offers a multiplayer approach for attempting to acquire Maelstrom, "end-game," weapons.

Fun Versus Frustrating

VMA may be the most frustrating content in the game, but with a team of two that frustration would be greatly reduced, and the content might actually be enjoyable (gasp!) for players. A large number of players who are either intimidated by or unsuccessful in VMA will get a chance to enjoy/compete in the content in a way that promotes two-person teamwork. With so few trials options, a 2 person VMA would also add to what some would call a scarcity of multiplayer end-game content (unless you count dungeons as "end-game").

Tank and Healer Viability

Tank and healer builds cannot easily transition to VMA in the way that Damage builds do because tanks and healers must respec to compete in VMA. Having to, at times, significantly alter builds when transitioning between content is unforgiving for tank and healer builds. I have heard developers mention that they desire a seamless transition, when possible, between in-game content, and a 2 person VMA option would help alleviate that harsh transition for tanks and healers.
Bonus effect: Part of the reason queue times are so long for activity finder content is that a larger portion of the player base queue as damage dealers. Perhaps with a 2 person VMA we might see an uptick in tanks and healers in activity finder group content as a result.

Potential Access to Maelstrom Weapons

Unfortunately, Maelstrom weapons are locked behind single player content in what is largely a multiplayer game. Compared to similarly designed "end-game" Master weapons (4 person Dragonstar Arena), Maelstrom weapons cannot be acquired through multiplayer game play. The option to enter Maelstrom Arena as a group of 2 would offer a multiplayer experience while attempting to acquire "end-game" weapons. Conversely, an argument for a single player Dragonstar Arena works under this logic as well.

Closing Thoughts

For those of you who have experienced the intense grind and frustration of single player VMA, I hear you, I know what it is like. After many frustration-filled runs, I'm at the point now, where I would much rather enjoy VMA with a friend than grind it because I think it would be a lot more fun - and it should be fun. I know that there are some of you who disagree and will argue that not all aspects of video game play should be fun, and that's fine. Some of you may also argue that "end-game" rewards such as Maelstrom weapons should not be accessible to everyone and that a 2 person VMA would greatly increase the number of Maelstrom weapons in player arsenals, and I hear you as well. I simply ask that if you are one of those people who disagree with my argument for 2 person VMA, that you please make your opposing argument in an appropriate, well-supported way. Thanks.

Note: to differentiate between difficulty of 1 player and 2 player VMA, I wouldn't be opposed to a 50% Maelstrom weapon drop chance for 2 player VMA, while 1 player VMA remains 100% drop chance for Maelstrom weapons (because I anticipate that an issue about player access to Maelstrom weapons will come up in discussion).

@ZOS_RichLambert
  • Horowonnoe
    Horowonnoe
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    Dude its really not that hard. I did it today on my sorc while cramping on my period. Just get it done. :3
    PC / NA
    Templar Healer "False Eye"
    Sorc Healer "Potema the Wolf Queen"
    Warden Healer "Heavy Attacks Online"
    Magicka Nightblade DPS "Nephaleth Telvanni"
    Dragonknight Tank "Nico's Facsimile"

    Builds & Guides:
    Horow's Templar Healer Guide for Trials (Murkmire updated)
    How to get Felms to jump correctly in vAS HM?
    Horow's vMA Magicka Sorc Build for beginners and lazy farmers
    Horow's Magicka Sorc Triple Pet Heavy Attack Build - Summerset Isles Ready
    More builds at anthem-guild.com/pve/.

    Notable Achievements:
    - World's first 18 Axes vAA clear
    - World's first 20+ enrage stack Llothis in vAS HM and World record cone damage
  • ForsakenSin
    ForsakenSin
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    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3543861#Comment_3543861
    I wish they made VMSA 2 man content i would love to have something to farm and grind with a buddy then solo it alone


    .... one can only dream....
    "By many i am seen as hero...as a savior of the Tamriel i will not stop until every Daedra every evil there is in Tamriel is vanquish by my hands..
    However i do this for my own purpose to gain trust of mortals to worship me and to eliminate my competition i will not bend my knee to lead your army to serve you Molag Bal , i will simply just take it from you.."--- Forsaken Sin( Magica Sorc)



    Arise From Darkness Forsaken SIn
    "You have been a loyal High Elf Magica Sorc
    Conjure of Darkness, Master of Magic
    Killer of Molag Bal and Savior of Ebonheart Pact
    Until Dark Brotherhood killed you...
    but now..NOW its time to Arise From Darkness once again..."

  • flizomica
    flizomica
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    I don't think that VMA is too hard or anything, but I think BiS weapons locked behind solo content in an MMO is kinda silly. I don't really play to slog away by myself ya feel me. Would be a ton more fun with more people, and is one of the reasons why i think vet DSA is so fun.
  • FloppyTouch
    FloppyTouch
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    Inb4 omfg no I did it now suffer post


    It's hard for a lot of people but it's suppose to be if they made it for 2 people it would be really easy if left alone.

    Maybe they could double the hp of the mobs or something but I'm for changes in the game like this bc I want to play with friends not play a mmo alone
  • HatchetHaro
    HatchetHaro
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    I'll be honest, before the whole mindless Morrowind nerf-fest, I would have completely disagreed, because it undermines the sheer amount of time I've spent in vMA farming for weapons on my stam DK.

    But now, with all these stupid gameplay changes, I feel that this isn't such a bad idea. It would promote much more teamwork and also alleviate the sheer amount of pain from trying to solo that crap post-Morrowind.
    Edited by HatchetHaro on May 9, 2017 4:34AM
    Best Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it

    20 Argonians

    6x IR, 7x GH, 7x TTT, 5x GS, 6x DB, 1x PB, 4x SBS, 1x MM, 1x US, 2x CB, 1x Unchained
  • ForsakenSin
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    nah i don't think they need to give more HP to adds , how about..

    1) if one person dies the level is reset: >:) no resurrections you start from beginning of the level you are on.

    2) the last stage has 6 crystals on the top and ceremonial guard at the bottom respawn if one person is down while other one is up.

    Now that would make it more challenging and WAY more fun
    "By many i am seen as hero...as a savior of the Tamriel i will not stop until every Daedra every evil there is in Tamriel is vanquish by my hands..
    However i do this for my own purpose to gain trust of mortals to worship me and to eliminate my competition i will not bend my knee to lead your army to serve you Molag Bal , i will simply just take it from you.."--- Forsaken Sin( Magica Sorc)



    Arise From Darkness Forsaken SIn
    "You have been a loyal High Elf Magica Sorc
    Conjure of Darkness, Master of Magic
    Killer of Molag Bal and Savior of Ebonheart Pact
    Until Dark Brotherhood killed you...
    but now..NOW its time to Arise From Darkness once again..."

  • ForsakenSin
    ForsakenSin
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    can you imagine if 2 people VMSA was implemented how amazing would it be ? percentage of people who completed is what 10% ? after morrowind it will be what 3% ?

    And those who are farming sharp destro how many of those who are stam got sharp desto staff they don't use the weapons would only be traded between the two people who completed the VMSA

    its a win win situation, and it will not be boring it would be fun like VDSA after all the nerfs in sustain at least gives us that like @HatchetHaro said
    "By many i am seen as hero...as a savior of the Tamriel i will not stop until every Daedra every evil there is in Tamriel is vanquish by my hands..
    However i do this for my own purpose to gain trust of mortals to worship me and to eliminate my competition i will not bend my knee to lead your army to serve you Molag Bal , i will simply just take it from you.."--- Forsaken Sin( Magica Sorc)



    Arise From Darkness Forsaken SIn
    "You have been a loyal High Elf Magica Sorc
    Conjure of Darkness, Master of Magic
    Killer of Molag Bal and Savior of Ebonheart Pact
    Until Dark Brotherhood killed you...
    but now..NOW its time to Arise From Darkness once again..."

  • Osteos
    Osteos
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    It would be really fun as a duo arena. Its not fun at all now.
    DAGGERFALL COVENANT
    NA PC
    Former Vehemence Member
    Onistka Valerius <> Artemis Renault <> Gonk gra-Ugrash <> Karietta <> Zercon at-Rusa <> Genevieve Renault <> Ktaka <> Brenlyn Renault
  • Apherius
    Apherius
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  • Taylor_MB
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    Tank and Healer Viability

    Tank and healer builds cannot easily transition to VMA in the way that Damage builds do because tanks and healers must respec to compete in VMA. Having to, at times, significantly alter builds when transitioning between content is unforgiving for tank and healer builds. I have heard developers mention that they desire a seamless transition, when possible, between in-game content, and a 2 person VMA option would help alleviate that harsh transition for tanks and healers.
    Bonus effect: Part of the reason queue times are so long for activity finder content is that a larger portion of the player base queue as damage dealers. Perhaps with a 2 person VMA we might see an uptick in tanks and healers in activity finder group content as a result.

    Despite all my different toons, my only vMA clears so far have been on my BlazPlar tank. 45k HP, 10k Stam, 15k Magicka wearing 2 procs sets- 5x Leeching, 2x Grothdar, 5x Soulshine (on dps bar), 2x Willpower (on shield bar). Got on the weekly leaderboards every time apart from the first 2 clears.

    My point is, even 10CP players who sepc for tank have better stats then I do on the above toon, yet it still clears vMA with ease, albeit not super fast.

    Tanks can clear vMA just fine
    1) swap out taunting skills and group utility skills for damage skills
    2) die 100+ times on your first clear just like everyone else did
    3) learn the arena
    4) make small adjustments to your build
    5) start farming

    Edited by Taylor_MB on May 9, 2017 5:28AM
    PvP Defensive Set Comparison
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    Oncoming Storm No-CP 11.6k Ward MagSorc - build and gamplay!
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  • itehache
    itehache
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    As much as I would love this to happen I think it should stay as it is. It is also fun to have a really hard solo challenge.

    However, I think they could add a 2 ppl arena in a next dlc/chapter/whatever. That would be tons of fun.
  • Metafae
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    It would be nice if they created a hard-mode that allowed for two players to go in together.
  • Unfadingsilence
    Unfadingsilence
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    Metafae wrote: »
    It would be nice if they created a hard-mode that allowed for two players to go in together.

    Yes that would be nice is VMA was hard or had an option for a hard-mode that would be OK with me cuz VMA is toooooooo easy I have been running it with no CP as well just to see if it can make it harder and it's been fun
  • Wizball1987
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    Yea i think keep the difficulty the same and the chest loot the same quantity 'But' u can share it. Would still take a few years for both of u to get a sharp destro so no need to worry zos
  • ForsakenSin
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    Metafae wrote: »
    It would be nice if they created a hard-mode that allowed for two players to go in together.

    Yes that would be nice is VMA was hard or had an option for a hard-mode that would be OK with me cuz VMA is toooooooo easy I have been running it with no CP as well just to see if it can make it harder and it's been fun



    qpclx.jpg


    at least you agree to make it 2 person
    "By many i am seen as hero...as a savior of the Tamriel i will not stop until every Daedra every evil there is in Tamriel is vanquish by my hands..
    However i do this for my own purpose to gain trust of mortals to worship me and to eliminate my competition i will not bend my knee to lead your army to serve you Molag Bal , i will simply just take it from you.."--- Forsaken Sin( Magica Sorc)



    Arise From Darkness Forsaken SIn
    "You have been a loyal High Elf Magica Sorc
    Conjure of Darkness, Master of Magic
    Killer of Molag Bal and Savior of Ebonheart Pact
    Until Dark Brotherhood killed you...
    but now..NOW its time to Arise From Darkness once again..."

  • Sheva I 7 I
    Sheva I 7 I
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    Guys seriously, with how much dps we are putting out at the moment vma should not be hard, you just need to follow a guide. Ive been able to put up 535k and I am not even good at vma
  • ralvdlindenpeb18_ESO
    I think game modes that you can play with 2 players is really something this game needs thats why i cant wait for morrowind
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    Essentially what would happen is what we already see with Trials: people who never could beat the arena on their own would just pay for carries to get the weapons.

    If you wanted to prevent this ZOS would have to redesign the whole arena because with 2 players vMA becomes as easy as normal is at the moment. I'd rather have them deliver a 2 player arena as DLC with new content than fiddling with an arena that is already more than a year old.
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • Leogon
    Leogon
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    I'm ok with that as long as it doesn't replace the solo one(I like it) and as long as it's scaled up in difficulty to match the difficulty of the solo one but for 2 players.
  • makreth
    makreth
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    Feanor wrote: »
    Essentially what would happen is what we already see with Trials: people who never could beat the arena on their own would just pay for carries to get the weapons.

    If you wanted to prevent this ZOS would have to redesign the whole arena because with 2 players vMA becomes as easy as normal is at the moment. I'd rather have them deliver a 2 player arena as DLC with new content than fiddling with an arena that is already more than a year old.

    I'd rather have a more dynamic encounter rather the one now with fixed and repetive spawns.
  • Enslaved
    Enslaved
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    This would be interesting, but only if you would not be able to get maelstorm weapons. Some other reward would be nice, but nothing OP. I think duo MA would be fun, especially when leveling alts.
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    I'll be honest, before the whole mindless Morrowind nerf-fest, I would have completely disagreed, because it undermines the sheer amount of time I've spent in vMA farming for weapons on my stam DK.

    But now, with all these stupid gameplay changes, I feel that this isn't such a bad idea. It would promote much more teamwork and also alleviate the sheer amount of pain from trying to solo that crap post-Morrowind.

    ^^ Kinda agree tbh. They've made stuff much tougher and most people already struggled with vMA.

    I'd push for a 2-person arena personally. Something like that would be cool.
  • CelticStones
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    Horowonnoe wrote: »
    Dude its really not that hard. I did it today on my sorc while cramping on my period. Just get it done. :3

    For some it really is that hard, and the final boss of stage 9 gave me cramps today on my period and I am a 50 year old guy!@!!
  • LadyDestiny
    LadyDestiny
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    I'll be honest, before the whole mindless Morrowind nerf-fest, I would have completely disagreed, because it undermines the sheer amount of time I've spent in vMA farming for weapons on my stam DK.

    But now, with all these stupid gameplay changes, I feel that this isn't such a bad idea. It would promote much more teamwork and also alleviate the sheer amount of pain from trying to solo that crap post-Morrowind.

    Agreed....I think Morrowind is going to change a lot of solo content. Let us hope Zeni took that into account with the nerfs......
  • MCBIZZLE300
    MCBIZZLE300
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    I think VMA should remain solo but a token system implemented.
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    I don't think VMA should be changed but a two player arena would be fun.

    Especially if you have to run different rooms at the same time sometimes. Then right at the end it builds up to a massive boss fight behind the final door.

    When the door opens though you both are just looking at one another... and duelling is flagged on. :grin:
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    mcb123 wrote: »
    I think VMA should remain solo but a token system implemented.

    That's an entirely different issue and one everyone who has ever looted a final vMA chest can agree with.
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    You just can't let VMA be, can you?

    Only, only and only thing that needs to be improved is the loot system in VMA.

    I am looking forward to duo VMA-like arena. That would be great. But let current Maelstrom arena be and rather create a new arena designed for two players.
  • TheHsN
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    I think VMA should have some option that

    if u want u should be able to make SOLO

    if u want DUO

    If u WANT for people...


    when u want to go solo go solo..

    when u dont have enough people go 2 people

    when u have friend and try to have fun go 4 people...


    and the level of hardness and easiness should scale how many people u are going in...
    Plays:
    Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
    Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka Templar - PvE
    Stamina Templar - PvP
    Magicka DK - PvE
    Stamina DK - PvE
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    A solo instance definitely has its place in the game. I like that if I'm restricted in time or unsure if I can commit to group activities because IRL might interfere I can just hop on vMA and do that.

    A duo arena as DLC would be awesome though.
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
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