Biro123 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.

All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.

Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.

Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...

Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....

And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...

Do you know how much cost a stamblade to cast cloak or fear? Even moar than streak and surge combined.

I'm not contesting that. I'm contesting the assertion that stamsorc uses magica for nothing other than dark deal..

I would like to see any stam sorc on PVE using streak...

I don't really care about PVE.

Ok. But the point stands, do you think stamsorc is the only class that uses magicka for utility?

Let's have a look:

DK: wings, spiked, igneous, I weapons, fossilize
NBs: Mark, Cloak, Fear, Shades
Temps: BoL, Cleanse, Rune
Sorc: Streak, Surge.

No - why would I think that? You keep doing this - putting words in my mouth. I'm just saying that dark deal is fuelled by a very small tank that has had its ability to be refilled hit hard. Yet you don't seem to grasp that and keep going on as if sorc sustain is as good as it is on live.

Because you said that there's no stamsrc without streak and surge... what about other classes? Don't you think the resource nerf affects them too?

If that's on, what's the point on having stam classes? Other stam classes have worst sustain than sorc on PTS. Currently NBs have a chance to use moar utility (even their bars have moar magicka skills than stam), but you keep on trying to justify that DD won't be a powerful tool to regain resources, when it will...

You know whats the suggestion for stamblades the coming patch? "run Transmutation"

Juhasow wrote: »

Prive wrote: »

[quote=

Sorcerer

• Dark Magic
  • Crystal Fragments (Crystal Shard morph): Reduced the damage bonus of this morph’s instant-cast proc to 10% from 20%.
    Developer Comments:
    Sorcerer’s sustained damage in PvE and burst damage in PvP is currently too high, so reducing the damage bonus from Crystal Fragments brings them down slightly in both areas without being too punishing to the overall damage kit.

If you would play your own game, you would know that there will be 0 sorcs running crystal frags in PVE

Still every sorc will run it in PvE. Now it can hit even for 50k so You're saying everyone will unslot it because it'll hit max ~45k ?... Also crystal is skill from dark magic and provides 3% spell crit buff to whole group for 20 seconds from passive.

Nobody will run it anymore, because people are using heavy attacks in PVE now. And on a HA sorc build, frags does not longer find its way to a sorcs front or back bar. This is not because of the 10% nerf, but simply because the meta is changing.

Prive wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Prive wrote: »

[quote=

Sorcerer

• Dark Magic
  • Crystal Fragments (Crystal Shard morph): Reduced the damage bonus of this morph’s instant-cast proc to 10% from 20%.
    Developer Comments:
    Sorcerer’s sustained damage in PvE and burst damage in PvP is currently too high, so reducing the damage bonus from Crystal Fragments brings them down slightly in both areas without being too punishing to the overall damage kit.

If you would play your own game, you would know that there will be 0 sorcs running crystal frags in PVE

Still every sorc will run it in PvE. Now it can hit even for 50k so You're saying everyone will unslot it because it'll hit max ~45k ?... Also crystal is skill from dark magic and provides 3% spell crit buff to whole group for 20 seconds from passive.

Nobody will run it anymore, because people are using heavy attacks in PVE now. And on a HA sorc build, frags does not longer find its way to a sorcs front or back bar. This is not because of the 10% nerf, but simply because the meta is changing.

This^

"Update 14 (3.0.2) is now available to test. ALL CONTENT ON THE PTS IS CURRENTLY UNDER AN NDA. Please note that Morrowind and its contents are accessible only if you have received an invitation via email. "

LOL even the PTS partial NDA lift gets nerfed

It really is a shame this cycle has been all pitchforks by the serfs... Now get back to work you "unpaid consultants"

Sheepfu wrote: »

Believe it or not, it took me almost 2 months to get my forum account made and activated... So, you know... at least the patch isn't the only aspect of Zeni that is a disaster. With that being said, I'm going to start blowing up the Bethesda forums about this patch. The ESO forum on Bethesda.net just redirects you to this forum... so that won't do. I'll just start to consistently post in the other Bethesda game forums to get their attention. It's pretty clear that Zeni isn't going to listen... if there's one thing I've learned in the world of being a consumer; companies and their overseers don't want their bottom line to be hurt, period... When you can't get the proper return on investment for a product you've paid money for, you climb the ladder of authority until someone with power decides they don't want to lose your business. The last 15 pages of this thread indicate that the overwhelming majority of consumers aren't happy... .it's time Zeni is held accountable by someone.

Useless... Zeni owns Bethesda...

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Item Sets

• Changed the overall style for the dropped item sets available in Vvardenfell.
  • The War Maiden set now drops in the Telvanni style instead of Tsaesci.
  • The Defiler set now drops in the Hlaalu style instead of Ashlander.
  • The Warrior-Poet set now drops in the Redoran style instead of Bouyant Armiger.
  • The appearances previously used by the Defiler and Warrior-Poet sets are still available as crafting motifs, obtained by participating in Vvardenfell content. The appearance used by the War Maiden set will not be available as a motif with Morrowind.
• Defiler: Fixed an issue where this Item Set could trigger on Critical Strikes with heals, instead of only Critical Strikes with damage.

So, you're removing one of the best looking styles in the game at its current state, and making the style unobtainable? Most gear already looks *** as is, and this really doesn't help.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

TazESO wrote: »

Allow me please to post some observations about this thread and the forums in general. I skipped to the last page after browsing for a while, but noticed Gina had to post about non-constructive posts and dev bashing. Thankfully the crying had calmed down by the 14th page, and I appreciate that. We are obviously passionate about the game.

Some of you (and myself sometimes, remember we are passionate about that which we care about, very understandable) need to work on your communication game. May I suggest:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People

Especially these nuggets:
...
Don't criticize, condemn, or complain. Human nature does not like to admit fault. When people are criticized or humiliated, they rarely respond well and will often become defensive and resent their critic. To handle people well, we must never criticize, condemn or complain because it will never result in the behavior we desire.

Give honest and sincere appreciation. Appreciation is one of the most powerful tools in the world. People will rarely work at their maximum potential under criticism, but honest appreciation brings out their best. Appreciation, though, is not simple flattery, it must be sincere, meaningful and with love.

Arouse in the other person an eager want. To get what we want from another person, we must forget our own perspective and begin to see things from the point of view of others. When we can combine our desires with their wants, they become eager to work with us and we can mutually achieve our objectives.
...

I would add that it's important to explain your feedback and position in a way the other side can understand but in alignment with the principles above.


By the way, this works for both sides! Hey there, ZOS!

I could go on all day about Myers Briggs, 4 quadrants, blah blah blah, but I won't today.

Thanks for reading.

We've tried that.

We've tried everything from Friendly horseshoes full of good points and essays worth of feedback and vitirolic hand grenades. Trust me when I say if that was working, we wouldn't be in this situation.

As the days go by, and it becomes clear they wont reverse their design direction, the only hope or recourse we have is to stop spending money. And I suggest everyone dis-satisfied with ZOS's lack of response or selective deafness to cut all support for this game, until they stop treating us like mushrooms.

No comment on the mushrooms, but I wholeheartedly agree that that if you have made a good faith effort to work with someone with no result then separation may be warranted. In the case of corporations whose allegiance is to the bottom line, stop spending your $$ with them.

olsborg wrote: »

Reduce the cost of vigor again, but make the resolving vigor only heal yourself.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Removing the AoE from Resolving Vigor would also allow for removing the GPU-intensive AoE animated effect. Given the proliferation of Resolving Vigor among stam characters, this could go a long way to reduce lag and improve performance in Cyrodiil, trials, vet dungeons, and even the areas around high-traffic wayshines that see a lot of dueling.

Luminous Shard (Spear Shards morph): This morph now causes the synergy to always restore Magicka and Stamina. It restores the current value of Magicka or Stamina to your highest maximum, and half of that value to the opposite resource.

This version is better in dungeon runs.

So much better, I think if you're going to keep the shared cooldown with necrotic orbs, then necrotic needs to have the same restoration effect as luminous. You're already keeping us from doubling up, and if you really are* trying to open up healing more for non-templar and non-warden classes, then give them the tools. I obviously don't speak for all of templarkind, but anybody or everybody else having decent kit for healing has nothing at all to do with why the changes to templars are so frustrating.

I think you're going to have a big wave of horror and rage about dungeons, dungeon finder, PUGs, etc when this goes live. The new problems will build upon the old problems (eg no tutorial and people not understanding how to perform their roles, lack of clear information in ability tooltips, broken abilities, etc.) and they were bad enough already.



* Full disclosure: I don't believe you. But prove me wrong, I can live with that.

@ZOS_GinaBruno The Max Templates still have to unlock the crafting skills and those skill lines are still not max level for testing Master writs and such.

@Gilliamtherogue I think she meant in a broader sense. Like the main purpose of Eclipse is in a crowd control function of preventing another player from using certain skills against you. As opposed to say, a directly damage dealing or healing function.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guys, we understand there are some changes in this patch that you may not agree with, or you feel additional changes are still necessary. We like to leave the PTS patch notes thread open so you can voice your feedback and concerns with us (since we are, after all, still in a testing phase). That said, personal insults or bashing our devs will not be tolerated. Moreover, these posts just aren't constructive or conducive toward making improvements. You can be honest with us, but you need to do so in a constructive manner.

In addition, keep in mind that even if one particular class or ability hasn't been adjusted, the overall balance is still affected with other changes. As always, we encourage you to hop on the PTS once maintenance is over and try these changes out for yourself in a live environment. Battlegrounds would be the perfect place to do so.

You're right. I say this with respect- a lot of PVE'ers (I don't think I would be wrong in saying that the majority of your player base is casual) are affected by this. Some skills seem balanced with a preference for PVP, and a complete disregard for PVE. I encourage devs to consider the opinions of its player base- many long time players are incredibly upset about the upcoming changes and some of the most loyal feel like quitting because they're not being listened to. It's also really hard to want to buy an expansion with a hyped up warden, when your own class feels like it's being nerfed to make the expansion look even better (I've seen a lot of comments like this). Endless sustain may be an issue for PVP, but your PVE'ers are taking a hit. Hope many changes are considered before the expansion goes live (especially to sustain for armor, at least). Thank you

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Guys, we understand there are some changes in this patch that you may not agree with, or you feel additional changes are still necessary. We like to leave the PTS patch notes thread open so you can voice your feedback and concerns with us (since we are, after all, still in a testing phase). That said, personal insults or bashing our devs will not be tolerated. Moreover, these posts just aren't constructive or conducive toward making improvements. You can be honest with us, but you need to do so in a constructive manner.

In addition, keep in mind that even if one particular class or ability hasn't been adjusted, the overall balance is still affected with other changes. As always, we encourage you to hop on the PTS once maintenance is over and try these changes out for yourself in a live environment. Battlegrounds would be the perfect place to do so.

The general changes to sustain I think are probably a good thing, but i can't see how it will help new players. I can only see it making things tougher for them. The only real difference that affect a long term player more than a new player are cp sustain removal/changes. Long term players also have access to the sets to assist their sustain, like black rose (which also just took a massive hit as it works off constitution)

The class specific changes to sustain however are not OK with me. With such wide sweeping changes to the overall mechanics of the game how can you tell if further class specific changes are required. Take NB for example. The changes to siphoning attacks were so severe it was shown a NB would run out of stamina FASTER than when they did not use it. This was also shown because rework of the original change was done for 3.0.2. Which makes me wonder if it was ever really tested out or just theorycrafted by the people/person responsible for the change? NB were affect the most by the change and they are already struggling for end game trials spots. Look at the trial leaderboards where they make up around 1 in 10 players. This is proof that NB's are in a bad place already. Leaving siphoning strikes to where it is on live will only leave NB's at their '1 in 10 players'. The proposed changes are worse for this class than any other class - ZOS should be working to address this gameplay balance and not make it worse for NB over other classes which the current PTS changes will do.

I suggest all class specific sustain is left as it is on live. Changes here will not reduce the gap between new players and vet players.

The only way to do that is
a) reduce the physical skill of the vet players to be the same as new players
b) reduce the gear of the vet players to be the same as new players
c) remove cp/exp

all three of those things are why people play MMORPG's over games like doom/quake - they are all advancement and MMO players like that (otherwise we would all still be playing the above games).