Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...Twohothardware wrote: »The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.
All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.
Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.
Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....
And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...
Twohothardware wrote: »This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.
Let me quote+bold so this doesn't get lost in the tons of bullsh!t we're drowning in.
Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...Twohothardware wrote: »The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.
All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.
Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.
Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....
And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...
Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...Twohothardware wrote: »The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.
All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.
Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.
Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....
And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...
Do you know how much cost a stamblade to cast cloak or fear? Even moar than streak and surge combined.
Twohothardware wrote: »This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.
Let me quote+bold so this doesn't get lost in the tons of bullsh!t we're drowning in.
me too.. 6 Dark Deals... hmm. that's 19k magica...
I don't believe battlegrounds are the place to test these changes out! I plan on trying vet dark shade 2 and enjoy being gobbled up by all the netches because I will most likely be out of magicka and heavy attacking the whole time and not killings them fast enough! I guess they figured out a way of fixing the dungeon finder! Just make vet dungeons impossible so no one wants to do them anymore! ;-)ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Guys, we understand there are some changes in this patch that you may not agree with, or you feel additional changes are still necessary. We like to leave the PTS patch notes thread open so you can voice your feedback and concerns with us (since we are, after all, still in a testing phase). That said, personal insults or bashing our devs will not be tolerated. Moreover, these posts just aren't constructive or conducive toward making improvements. You can be honest with us, but you need to do so in a constructive manner.
In addition, keep in mind that even if one particular class or ability hasn't been adjusted, the overall balance is still affected with other changes. As always, we encourage you to hop on the PTS once maintenance is over and try these changes out for yourself in a live environment. Battlegrounds would be the perfect place to do so.
Twohothardware wrote: »Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...Twohothardware wrote: »The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.
All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.
Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.
Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....
And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...
Streak is a plus but is not mandatory to play a StamSorc effectively and Crit Surge is again another bonus heal that Stam Sorc gets that Nightblade lacks and you only have to cast it once every 33 seconds. A StamSorc can dump their entire Magicka pool into multiple Dark Deals for the huge Stamina and Health chunks and still have more than enough Magicka regen to reapply Crit Surge.
And don't even start on Heavy Armor because Nightblade will be forced to run Medium only with these changes.
potirondb16_ESO wrote: »It would have be nice if reapplying Siphoning Attack could proc the 2,3k mana refurbishing, so you don't have to wait for proc to die.
Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...Twohothardware wrote: »The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.
All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.
Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.
Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....
And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...
Do you know how much cost a stamblade to cast cloak or fear? Even moar than streak and surge combined.
I'm not contesting that. I'm contesting the assertion that stamsorc uses magica for nothing other than dark deal..
Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...Twohothardware wrote: »The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.
All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.
Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.
Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....
And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...
Do you know how much cost a stamblade to cast cloak or fear? Even moar than streak and surge combined.
I'm not contesting that. I'm contesting the assertion that stamsorc uses magica for nothing other than dark deal..
I would like to see any stam sorc on PVE using streak...
Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...Twohothardware wrote: »The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.
All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.
Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.
Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....
And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...
Do you know how much cost a stamblade to cast cloak or fear? Even moar than streak and surge combined.
I'm not contesting that. I'm contesting the assertion that stamsorc uses magica for nothing other than dark deal..
I would like to see any stam sorc on PVE using streak...
I don't really care about PVE.
I suppose that even though the initial 5+5+2 setup was mentioned with stamNB in mind it's still a valid question for magNB setups as well. It's difficult to predict it without testing in raid environment. The initial and highly skeptical ~50% uptime was calculated on avg. Ulti generation ratio with the build however still without taking additional x% uptime from external sources into consideration. BSW with best-case scenario ~65% uptime being virtual ~390 SD alone won't stay close to x=[(+15% base damage done *x% uptime)/100] but then we're sacrificing powerful Ulti - be it Shooting Star or Fiery Rage. While all I said before is simply that the set alone looks promising it wouldn't be also a surprise if War Machine (the stamina version) landed on Warden off-tank virtually spamming Enchanted Forest (75 Ulti with instant +20 Ulti regeneration option) thus serving similar role to how Alkosh buffs were provided. At this moment it's papercrafting theory while 3.0.2 is still downloading.Also, let's not forget that it's a 5pc bonus, so where will you put it? Instead of monster sets? Bad idea, especially since the sustain is nerfed and those proc and don't use resources. Instead of BSW? Don't wanna lose that buff.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Item Sets
- The War Maiden set now drops in the Telvanni style instead of Tsaesci.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
- The appearances previously used by the Defiler and Warrior-Poet sets are still available as crafting motifs, obtained by participating in Vvardenfell content. The appearance used by the War Maiden set will not be available as a motif with Morrowind.
Twohothardware wrote: »Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...Twohothardware wrote: »The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.
All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.
Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.
Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....
And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...
Streak is a plus but is not mandatory to play a StamSorc effectively and Crit Surge is again another bonus heal that Stam Sorc gets that Nightblade lacks and you only have to cast it once every 33 seconds. A StamSorc can dump their entire Magicka pool into multiple Dark Deals for the huge Stamina and Health chunks and still have more than enough Magicka regen to reapply Crit Surge.
And don't even start on Heavy Armor because Nightblade will be forced to run Medium only with these changes.
Seriously? What stamsorc doesn't use streak and surge? They are both core, staple skills.. What do stamsorcs have that makes them unique.... 1. Mobility... 2. A source of major brutality without needing a 2-hander... Drop those and you may as well play any other stam class as its weapons skills only....
Crit-Surge costs 3849 mag... So lets take the average heavy armour stamsorc with 14k magica.. Assume he doesn't need to rebuff with crit-surge (giving you the benefit of doubt)... to dark-deal effectively without getting interrupted, he has to either los or stun the opponent - which usually means one or more streaks.. so I'll assume there's a tree right nearby (giving you the benefit again) so only needs 2 streaks to get there.. Streak costs 3591.. 2 of em, with the cost increase = around 9000 magica.. so now we can dark-deal... So we have around 5k mag left.. Assuming we got hit a few times for a bit of constitution, we can dark deal twice - and have 0 mag left.. Those 2 dark deals give you about 9k stamina back.
It will be 20 seconds until you have enough mag to dark-deal again for another 4.8k stam..
This example assumed the best case for making DD look overpowered..
Sorry man - multiple dark deals is just plain BS unless out of combat with full mag or you give up other stats to get magica recovery.. quite a lot of it.
lunalitetempler wrote: »
Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...Twohothardware wrote: »The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.
All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.
Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.
Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....
And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...
Do you know how much cost a stamblade to cast cloak or fear? Even moar than streak and surge combined.
I'm not contesting that. I'm contesting the assertion that stamsorc uses magica for nothing other than dark deal..
I would like to see any stam sorc on PVE using streak...
I don't really care about PVE.
Ok. But the point stands, do you think stamsorc is the only class that uses magicka for utility?
Let's have a look:
DK: wings, spiked, igneous, I weapons, fossilize
NBs: Mark, Cloak, Fear, Shades
Temps: BoL, Cleanse, Rune
Sorc: Streak, Surge.
Twohothardware wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...Twohothardware wrote: »The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.
All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.
Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.
Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....
And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...
Streak is a plus but is not mandatory to play a StamSorc effectively and Crit Surge is again another bonus heal that Stam Sorc gets that Nightblade lacks and you only have to cast it once every 33 seconds. A StamSorc can dump their entire Magicka pool into multiple Dark Deals for the huge Stamina and Health chunks and still have more than enough Magicka regen to reapply Crit Surge.
And don't even start on Heavy Armor because Nightblade will be forced to run Medium only with these changes.
Seriously? What stamsorc doesn't use streak and surge? They are both core, staple skills.. What do stamsorcs have that makes them unique.... 1. Mobility... 2. A source of major brutality without needing a 2-hander... Drop those and you may as well play any other stam class as its weapons skills only....
Crit-Surge costs 3849 mag... So lets take the average heavy armour stamsorc with 14k magica.. Assume he doesn't need to rebuff with crit-surge (giving you the benefit of doubt)... to dark-deal effectively without getting interrupted, he has to either los or stun the opponent - which usually means one or more streaks.. so I'll assume there's a tree right nearby (giving you the benefit again) so only needs 2 streaks to get there.. Streak costs 3591.. 2 of em, with the cost increase = around 9000 magica.. so now we can dark-deal... So we have around 5k mag left.. Assuming we got hit a few times for a bit of constitution, we can dark deal twice - and have 0 mag left.. Those 2 dark deals give you about 9k stamina back.
It will be 20 seconds until you have enough mag to dark-deal again for another 4.8k stam..
This example assumed the best case for making DD look overpowered..
Sorry man - multiple dark deals is just plain BS unless out of combat with full mag or you give up other stats to get magica recovery.. quite a lot of it.
I suggest you take a look here at one of the best Stam Sorc's in the game and how he is endlessly Dark Dealing and doesn't need to use Streak even while outnumbered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAkP30GzkRI
And StamSorc has high mobility regardless if you Streak or not. The Minor Expedition of Hurricane + Orc passive + a Major Expedition potion and you can outrun any other class with no Streak involved.
And I would also suggest those of you that don't push for these other classes to receive back their sustain to keep in mind that if you think alot of players are running MagSorc/StamSorc now in PvP just wait till that's the only viable class. It won't be as much fun to play a StamSorc when all your facing is StamSorc/MagSorc.
This would never happen on nonCP. Makes me wonder why people give *** to players on nonCP - you literally wouldnt sustain beyond 5 seconds into the start of this fight. In any event, good fights. -- Watch live at