Biro123 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.

All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.

Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.

Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...

Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....

And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...

Do you know how much cost a stamblade to cast cloak or fear? Even moar than streak and surge combined.

F7sus4 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.

Let me quote+bold so this doesn't get lost in the tons of bullsh!t we're drowning in.

me too.. 6 Dark Deals... hmm. that's 19k magica...

Xvorg wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.

All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.

Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.

Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...

Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....

And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...

Do you know how much cost a stamblade to cast cloak or fear? Even moar than streak and surge combined.

I'm not contesting that. I'm contesting the assertion that stamsorc uses magica for nothing other than dark deal..

Nbs were on the bottom of the dps chain and they got worse while sorc got a minor nerf that is laughably weak.
Nb could have been so good if there wouldn't be any changes to siphoning strikes and the other classes get a hit in sustain. This would make them almost perfectly balanced with the other stam classes ( mag is still way ahead)
In an pvp perspective the only selling point for 95% of all nbs got nerfed and is now harder than ever and will be impossible for many players (talking about ganking) the other 5% which try to small scale took a huge hit with the changes in this patch and the best sustain ability got wrecked entirely so we need to built for more sustain - - - - > damage decreases - - - - > we have to fight longer ----> have to survive more damage
And the nb simply isn't build for that so we really have some problems there

Twohothardware wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.

All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.

Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.

Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...

Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....

And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...

Streak is a plus but is not mandatory to play a StamSorc effectively and Crit Surge is again another bonus heal that Stam Sorc gets that Nightblade lacks and you only have to cast it once every 33 seconds. A StamSorc can dump their entire Magicka pool into multiple Dark Deals for the huge Stamina and Health chunks and still have more than enough Magicka regen to reapply Crit Surge.

And don't even start on Heavy Armor because Nightblade will be forced to run Medium only with these changes.

Seriously? What stamsorc doesn't use streak and surge? They are both core, staple skills.. What do stamsorcs have that makes them unique.... 1. Mobility... 2. A source of major brutality without needing a 2-hander... Drop those and you may as well play any other stam class as its weapons skills only....

Crit-Surge costs 3849 mag... So lets take the average heavy armour stamsorc with 14k magica.. Assume he doesn't need to rebuff with crit-surge (giving you the benefit of doubt)... to dark-deal effectively without getting interrupted, he has to either los or stun the opponent - which usually means one or more streaks.. so I'll assume there's a tree right nearby (giving you the benefit again) so only needs 2 streaks to get there.. Streak costs 3591.. 2 of em, with the cost increase = around 9000 magica.. so now we can dark-deal... So we have around 5k mag left.. Assuming we got hit a few times for a bit of constitution, we can dark deal twice - and have 0 mag left.. Those 2 dark deals give you about 9k stamina back.
It will be 20 seconds until you have enough mag to dark-deal again for another 4.8k stam..

This example assumed the best case for making DD look overpowered..

Sorry man - multiple dark deals is just plain BS unless out of combat with full mag or you give up other stats to get magica recovery.. quite a lot of it.

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

It would have be nice if reapplying Siphoning Attack could proc the 2,3k mana refurbishing, so you don't have to wait for proc to die.

Yep - and it was a sliding amount based on how long it had been active (like rally).. What does it cost to cast siphoning, btw?

Champion Points Regarding PvP vs PvE
Please look into having separate CP trees for PvP and PvE. I think that alone would solve SO MANY balancing issues.

What I mean by this is:

1. Have normal CP for outside of PvP
2. Remove CP from PvP entirely and implement its own system.
3. Have a system similar to the Champion Point system but for PvP only
4. The PvP system progression is based on your PvP rank
5. This new PvP tree could have all kinds of new unique passives or extra skill morphs that would only affect PvP gameplay

Things this will accomplish:

1. There will be a way to somewhat separately balance PvP and PvE
2. PvPers will feel like the time and effort spent to level up the Alliance War Rank past 10 is actually worth doing
3. Rank will actually mean something in PvP other than just putting a target on your back
4. Low CP players would still be viable in PvP

Now the trick to this would obviously be making sure the new PvP "Champion" system (I'm going to call it the "War Champion System" or WC for short) wouldn't be overwhelming for new players coming into PvP but making it have enough benefit so that high level PvPers with a high Alliance War Rank get something worthwhile from it.

Now I don't know what exactly could be in this new WC system, but I think the devs and community could work together to come up with some very strong ideas. Possibly allow separate morphs for weapon or class skills only available while in PvP areas or specific bonuses or perks targeted for PvP gameplay (less siege damage received, more siege damage done, morale bonuses to members of a group etc.).

I also understand that implementing a system like this would require lots of work, time and brainstorming, however it is my opinion that it would have a TREMENDOUSLY POSITIVE impact on the balancing of the game as a whole and make it much easier to balance PvP and PvE separately in the future.

I don't know how people feel about something like this, as it would be a major change to the current game, but my feeling is that players are BEGGING for some way to balance the two separately.

I am very curious what you guys think about this idea or if there should be a separate forum post about this.

Biro123 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.

All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.

Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.

Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...

Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....

And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...

Do you know how much cost a stamblade to cast cloak or fear? Even moar than streak and surge combined.

I'm not contesting that. I'm contesting the assertion that stamsorc uses magica for nothing other than dark deal..

I would like to see any stam sorc on PVE using streak...

I don't really care about PVE.

Ok. But the point stands, do you think stamsorc is the only class that uses magicka for utility?

Let's have a look:

DK: wings, spiked, igneous, I weapons, fossilize
NBs: Mark, Cloak, Fear, Shades
Temps: BoL, Cleanse, Rune
Sorc: Streak, Surge.

Ok at patch 3.0.0 I was like "yes finaly" I could ressurect my main and create templar tank whom will hawe some sort of resourse managment, like DK, cos we all kned DK is THE best tank! We thinkes that it will be nice one more spear from tank to dps.

But... Patch 3.0.2 RIPed my tank!

Common! DK hawe sustain abbilities! Sork hawe! Warden hawe! NB hawe(i dont sctualy like it but still)
what about my lowely templar orc? No! If some one just try to say somthing about repetense I woul explode, cos try to tank boss or mobs without courpses!!!
Comon give it back, it was good idea to tanks AND heals! You created good skill with those 20sec return you protected your game from to many resourses back, it was actualy good balansed skill! So why would you change it to those half of other resourse? -_-

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Item Sets

• The War Maiden set now drops in the Telvanni style instead of Tsaesci.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• The appearances previously used by the Defiler and Warrior-Poet sets are still available as crafting motifs, obtained by participating in Vvardenfell content. The appearance used by the War Maiden set will not be available as a motif with Morrowind.

*sulks*

thanks for un-nerfing the Templar, it has suffered enough poor thing

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno Well now work on un-nerfing the DK and giving another little nerf to the Sorcerer, its too damn powerful, specially in pvp and with that Bolt Escape

Twohothardware wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

The guy at ZoS that's making the final decision on these changes whether it be Wrobel or whoever must of been a total fail at Mathematics in school or is just lost on logic. This new change to Siphoning Attacks restores around the same amount of Stamina you get back on a single Dark Deal cast AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS AND LAND MULTIPLE LIGHT/HEAVY ATTACKS TO GET IT. In that same 20 seconds the Dark Dealing Stam Sorc could of just cast a half a dozen times and gone from zero resources to full resources on top of a huge heal per cast.

All of these changes to Siphoning/Leeching Attacks need to be completely reversed. ZoS seems to have no idea how a Nightblade functions and how you have to rely on both good Stamina and Magicka sustain due to the mix of class abilities that are real resource drains like Cloak and Fear on the Magicka side. On a Stam Sorc all of your main abilities are Stamina based so they lose nothing from giving up all their Magicka to spam Dark Deal for infinite sustain. It is not a trade off. It is not balanced. It is not close.

Learn to math ZoS/Wrobel and maybe get outside of your internal testing at the office where all of you are clearly running MagSorc's.

Stamsorc isn't a stamsorc without streak and crit surge.. They both cost a TON of magica to cast...

Sigh.. More sorc misinformation....

And did you even read my earlier post about a page back around just how well constitution sustains dark deal this patch.. You can do 1 DD per 20 seconds. You're making the mistake of comparing pts nightblade with live sorc, and even then exaggerating it...

Streak is a plus but is not mandatory to play a StamSorc effectively and Crit Surge is again another bonus heal that Stam Sorc gets that Nightblade lacks and you only have to cast it once every 33 seconds. A StamSorc can dump their entire Magicka pool into multiple Dark Deals for the huge Stamina and Health chunks and still have more than enough Magicka regen to reapply Crit Surge.

And don't even start on Heavy Armor because Nightblade will be forced to run Medium only with these changes.

Seriously? What stamsorc doesn't use streak and surge? They are both core, staple skills.. What do stamsorcs have that makes them unique.... 1. Mobility... 2. A source of major brutality without needing a 2-hander... Drop those and you may as well play any other stam class as its weapons skills only....

Crit-Surge costs 3849 mag... So lets take the average heavy armour stamsorc with 14k magica.. Assume he doesn't need to rebuff with crit-surge (giving you the benefit of doubt)... to dark-deal effectively without getting interrupted, he has to either los or stun the opponent - which usually means one or more streaks.. so I'll assume there's a tree right nearby (giving you the benefit again) so only needs 2 streaks to get there.. Streak costs 3591.. 2 of em, with the cost increase = around 9000 magica.. so now we can dark-deal... So we have around 5k mag left.. Assuming we got hit a few times for a bit of constitution, we can dark deal twice - and have 0 mag left.. Those 2 dark deals give you about 9k stamina back.
It will be 20 seconds until you have enough mag to dark-deal again for another 4.8k stam..

This example assumed the best case for making DD look overpowered..

Sorry man - multiple dark deals is just plain BS unless out of combat with full mag or you give up other stats to get magica recovery.. quite a lot of it.

I suggest you take a look here at one of the best Stam Sorc's in the game and how he is endlessly Dark Dealing and doesn't need to use Streak even while outnumbered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAkP30GzkRI

And StamSorc has high mobility regardless if you Streak or not. The Minor Expedition of Hurricane + Orc passive + a Major Expedition potion and you can outrun any other class with no Streak involved.

And I would also suggest those of you that don't push for these other classes to receive back their sustain to keep in mind that if you think alot of players are running MagSorc/StamSorc now in PvP just wait till that's the only viable class. It won't be as much fun to play a StamSorc when all your facing is StamSorc/MagSorc.

Yeah, I watched it... easy dark-dealing when theres only one enemy permablocking... Not to mention Feng had this comment in the description of the vid..:

This would never happen on nonCP. Makes me wonder why people give *** to players on nonCP - you literally wouldnt sustain beyond 5 seconds into the start of this fight. In any event, good fights. -- Watch live at

NOCP sustain being very similar to the sustain CP changes in the test server - but the test server has half the constitution return...