Twohothardware wrote: »MagSorc should be balanced around having among the highest burst damage, the best mobility through Streak which they could reduce the cost increase per cast, and then good sustainability through Dark Exchange, but to counter that MagSorc should be among the weakest classes for being able to take damage.
MagSorc's being able to tank from huge shields better than a stamina player in heavy armor is what has caused the MagSorc imbalance to continue to spiral. Shields should put survivability in light armor around the same or slightly better than someone in medium armor without shields. They can reduce the shield size, they can make them critable, they can make it to where they can't stack, whatever. But you should not be able to wear light armor for max sustain and damage and be able to stand toe to toe with multiple players whaling on you like your in heavy armor.
Twohothardware wrote: »MagSorc should be balanced around having among the highest burst damage, the best mobility through Streak which they could reduce the cost increase per cast, and then good sustainability through Dark Exchange, but to counter that MagSorc should be among the weakest classes for being able to take damage.
MagSorc's being able to tank from huge shields better than a stamina player in heavy armor is what has caused the MagSorc imbalance to continue to spiral. Shields should put survivability in light armor around the same or slightly better than someone in medium armor without shields. They can reduce the shield size, they can make them critable, they can make it to where they can't stack, whatever. But you should not be able to wear light armor for max sustain and damage and be able to stand toe to toe with multiple players whaling on you like your in heavy armor.
D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Don't care because at least all classes finally got hurt with a nerf, although i would have preferred buffs compared to this.
dwemer_paleologist wrote: »crystal frags is not what kills me.
what kills me is that after i unload all i got into a sorc while he keeps spamming his shields and casting mass 10,000 lightning on me over and over and over and i'm not able cast invisibility because of the constant whirlwind all around me and also this thing swirling inside my character wont let him stealth and i cant invis because of that = i'm dead and it happens within a few seconds. i healed with vigor and also the 2 handed thing repeatedly but i'm over taken by the damage and have zero escape from it.
i just die, there is no escape from sorc.
if i see them i avoid the fight all together.
i saw NO frags cast at me, none.
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Don't care because at least all classes finally got hurt with a nerf, although i would have preferred buffs compared to this.
This is not a constructive attitude for a balance discussion.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »crystal frags is not what kills me.
what kills me is that after i unload all i got into a sorc while he keeps spamming his shields and casting mass 10,000 lightning on me over and over and over and i'm not able cast invisibility because of the constant whirlwind all around me and also this thing swirling inside my character wont let him stealth and i cant invis because of that = i'm dead and it happens within a few seconds. i healed with vigor and also the 2 handed thing repeatedly but i'm over taken by the damage and have zero escape from it.
i just die, there is no escape from sorc.
if i see them i avoid the fight all together.
i saw NO frags cast at me, none.
Sounds like you have a bad build and crutch on cloak.
dwemer_paleologist wrote: »NightbladeMechanics wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Don't care because at least all classes finally got hurt with a nerf, although i would have preferred buffs compared to this.
This is not a constructive attitude for a balance discussion.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »crystal frags is not what kills me.
what kills me is that after i unload all i got into a sorc while he keeps spamming his shields and casting mass 10,000 lightning on me over and over and over and i'm not able cast invisibility because of the constant whirlwind all around me and also this thing swirling inside my character wont let him stealth and i cant invis because of that = i'm dead and it happens within a few seconds. i healed with vigor and also the 2 handed thing repeatedly but i'm over taken by the damage and have zero escape from it.
i just die, there is no escape from sorc.
if i see them i avoid the fight all together.
i saw NO frags cast at me, none.
Sounds like you have a bad build and crutch on cloak.
so if someone dies within a few seconds to 40,000 damage that means they have a bad build and a crutch on cloak.
hmm ...
dwemer_paleologist wrote: »that's not what happens.
dwemer_paleologist wrote: »and you know it. sorc
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Don't care because at least all classes finally got hurt with a nerf, although i would have preferred buffs compared to this.
This is not a constructive attitude for a balance discussion.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »crystal frags is not what kills me.
what kills me is that after i unload all i got into a sorc while he keeps spamming his shields and casting mass 10,000 lightning on me over and over and over and i'm not able cast invisibility because of the constant whirlwind all around me and also this thing swirling inside my character wont let him stealth and i cant invis because of that = i'm dead and it happens within a few seconds. i healed with vigor and also the 2 handed thing repeatedly but i'm over taken by the damage and have zero escape from it.
i just die, there is no escape from sorc.
if i see them i avoid the fight all together.
i saw NO frags cast at me, none.
Sounds like you have a bad build and crutch on cloak.
dwemer_paleologist wrote: »@NightbladeMechanics
the devs destroyed the high damage and high survivability of the dragonight for a reason, they even came out on the forums and other places apologizing that the dragonight was unintentionaly overpowered.
dwemer_paleologist wrote: ».NightbladeMechanics wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Don't care because at least all classes finally got hurt with a nerf, although i would have preferred buffs compared to this.
This is not a constructive attitude for a balance discussion.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »crystal frags is not what kills me.
what kills me is that after i unload all i got into a sorc while he keeps spamming his shields and casting mass 10,000 lightning on me over and over and over and i'm not able cast invisibility because of the constant whirlwind all around me and also this thing swirling inside my character wont let him stealth and i cant invis because of that = i'm dead and it happens within a few seconds. i healed with vigor and also the 2 handed thing repeatedly but i'm over taken by the damage and have zero escape from it.
i just die, there is no escape from sorc.
if i see them i avoid the fight all together.
i saw NO frags cast at me, none.
Sounds like you have a bad build and crutch on cloak.
i am willing to bet that no matter who you speak with, that person will allways have a bad build unless they follow your way and your build.
Silver_Strider wrote: »I love the counter argument for this.
"This move is easy to dodge it doesn't need a nerf."
If it was so easy, then the damage could be increase to 100% and it wouldn't matter cause it''s "easy to dodge".
"But a good Sorc knows when to use Frags so it'll hit"
So it's NOT easy to dodge? Make up your mind Sorcs.
Honestly, this won't even matter as Sorcs are still going to hit like trucks and be top in practically all fields of play.
dwemer_paleologist wrote: »
i am willing to bet that no matter who you speak with, that person will allways have a bad build unless they follow your way and your build.
dwemer_paleologist wrote: »@NightbladeMechanics
i have created several roll dodge builds, several knock down and gank builds. created hundreds of builds and tests and followed others advice and builds and done extensive study on this for what ? 4 years now, (or there abouts), and some how my imperfections just cant get past you.
and my imperfect wording on the forums just doesn't suit you iether.
and for some reason you want to target me repeatedly about my anger of the sorcerer abilities being way out line and make it public that i need .. what ?your profesional help and that i am simply a failure that i cant compete with overpowered classes and that i am out of line for making my complaints on a forum here with other people who agree with me ?
i simply do not agree with your comments and insults.
arkansas_ESO wrote: »I'm all for sorc nerfs, but this seems like a really, really weird change. I would much rather see the second explosion from Velocious gone and Hardened Ward made unstackable with Harness Magicka. Also, why has Dark Deal made it so long without getting a nerf? If any class had infinite sustain and high damage, it was definitely stam sorc.
Twohothardware wrote: »MagSorc should be balanced around having among the highest burst damage, the best mobility through Streak which they could reduce the cost increase per cast, and then good sustainability through Dark Exchange, but to counter that MagSorc should be among the weakest classes for being able to take damage.
MagSorc's being able to tank from huge shields better than a stamina player in heavy armor is what has caused the MagSorc imbalance to continue to spiral. Shields should put survivability in light armor around the same or slightly better than someone in medium armor without shields. They can reduce the shield size, they can make them critable, they can make it to where they can't stack, whatever. But you should not be able to wear light armor for max sustain and damage and be able to stand toe to toe with multiple players whaling on you like your in heavy armor.
No light armor shield stacking sorc can tank nearly as well as a heavy armor Stam DK. Not even with imperial physique and pirate skeleton.
There's not even a question, in the hands of equally skilled players the Stam DK is much more tanky and still capable of great pressure and solid burst. The illusion of sorc tankiness is perpetrated by bads that can't maintain their buffs and keep pressure up.
Shields are very very strong 1v1, without doubt but they scale very poorly, even a theoretical 50k stack requires just like 4k dps from 5 players. Or less than 9k from 2.
Twohothardware wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »MagSorc should be balanced around having among the highest burst damage, the best mobility through Streak which they could reduce the cost increase per cast, and then good sustainability through Dark Exchange, but to counter that MagSorc should be among the weakest classes for being able to take damage.
MagSorc's being able to tank from huge shields better than a stamina player in heavy armor is what has caused the MagSorc imbalance to continue to spiral. Shields should put survivability in light armor around the same or slightly better than someone in medium armor without shields. They can reduce the shield size, they can make them critable, they can make it to where they can't stack, whatever. But you should not be able to wear light armor for max sustain and damage and be able to stand toe to toe with multiple players whaling on you like your in heavy armor.
No light armor shield stacking sorc can tank nearly as well as a heavy armor Stam DK. Not even with imperial physique and pirate skeleton.
There's not even a question, in the hands of equally skilled players the Stam DK is much more tanky and still capable of great pressure and solid burst. The illusion of sorc tankiness is perpetrated by bads that can't maintain their buffs and keep pressure up.
Shields are very very strong 1v1, without doubt but they scale very poorly, even a theoretical 50k stack requires just like 4k dps from 5 players. Or less than 9k from 2.
No StamDK build can both tank and put out the same damage that a MagSorc with 40k+ Magicka shields combined with Bone Pirate can do. Yes you can currently make a very tanky StamDK build but DK's abilities are based around sustained pressure rather than burst damage and since you obviously haven't played on the PTS the StamDK's tankiness and sustain just fell off a cliff with the removal of Major Mending and nerfs to healing, huge nerf to blocking, nerf to Battle Roar, removal of cost reduction CP, ect. MagSorc is the meta for Battlegrounds, not StamDK and it's because of the tankiness of shield stacking combined with high burst damage.
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »that's not what happens.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »and you know it. sorc
I quoted what you said yourself, and I main a shieldless magicka nightblade.
You'll never understand or improve at the game if you don't stop blaming ZOS or balance or the game for your struggles and start blaming yourself.
Twohothardware wrote: »MagSorc should be balanced around having among the highest burst damage, the best mobility through Streak which they could reduce the cost increase per cast, and then good sustainability through Dark Exchange, but to counter that MagSorc should be among the weakest classes for being able to take damage.
MagSorc's being able to tank from huge shields better than a stamina player in heavy armor is what has caused the MagSorc imbalance to continue to spiral. Shields should put survivability in light armor around the same or slightly better than someone in medium armor without shields. They can reduce the shield size, they can make them critable, they can make it to where they can't stack, whatever. But you should not be able to wear light armor for max sustain and damage and be able to stand toe to toe with multiple players whaling on you like your in heavy armor.
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »Don't care because at least all classes finally got hurt with a nerf, although i would have preferred buffs compared to this.
This is not a constructive attitude for a balance discussion.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »crystal frags is not what kills me.
what kills me is that after i unload all i got into a sorc while he keeps spamming his shields and casting mass 10,000 lightning on me over and over and over and i'm not able cast invisibility because of the constant whirlwind all around me and also this thing swirling inside my character wont let him stealth and i cant invis because of that = i'm dead and it happens within a few seconds. i healed with vigor and also the 2 handed thing repeatedly but i'm over taken by the damage and have zero escape from it.
i just die, there is no escape from sorc.
if i see them i avoid the fight all together.
i saw NO frags cast at me, none.
Sounds like you have a bad build and crutch on cloak.