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Unofficial Thread for ESO Live Sorc Cuts

STEVIL
STEVIL
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ICYMI

ESO Live

Announced Monday Sorcs would have CFRAG dropped from 20% damage boost to 10% as part of the cuts coming for the Sorc.

obviously more are planned but as i see it, just looking at the FRAGS issue alone - its not enough.

The goal and theme of this rebalance is "sustain or damage - not both" where you have to choose where on the spectrum of maxdam to maxsustain you want to be.

if you look at frags - its proc gives you lower cost, higher damage and quick cast aka higher dps. that is damage and sustain all boosted in one and that is not good.

Also of course shards is still unused.

I suggest the following changes to the two morphs:

CFRAGS should give you on proc 10% damage and quick cast.
CSHARDS should give you on proc 25% (maybe 33%) cost reduction and quick cast but only single target not AOE.

this puts the morphs for that attack very solidly in the "choose sustain boost or choose damage boost.

Any thoughts?

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
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"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • Malamar1229
    Malamar1229
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    unbelieveable
    Makkir the Stormcaller
    Makkir of Daggerfall
    Check my Magicka Sorc Videos- Makkir YouTube Videos
    #SorcLivesMatter
  • D0ntevenL1ft
    D0ntevenL1ft
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    Don't care because at least all classes finally got hurt with a nerf, although i would have preferred buffs compared to this.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Not sure why its dmg was nerfed considering zos has gone on a sustain rampage. I was expecting it cost increase.

    Also they still leave dark conversion as it is...
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Drummerx04
    Drummerx04
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    I'd rather they leave cfrag alone, the fact that I can only really cast it maybe twice in an average rotation does not warrant this nerf.

    What ZOS SHOULD nerf on a sorc is the volatile familiar dot which hits for upwards of 15k per tick in a huge aoe and frankly they should put haunting curse back to velocious and then reduce the damage boost on Daedric Prey by 10-20%.

    These changes should push sorc back in line with the other dps classes. Cfrag hasn't been touched in my 2 years of playing sorc. The changes to curse and pet alone was enough to take me from being the ONLY magsorc in a trials raid, to 1 of 5-7 magsorc dps.

    ZoS wanted to make pets viable... they went and made pets basically mandatory. That's not a good change.
    PC/NA - Nightfighters, Raid Leader and Officer
    Lilith Arujo - DC sorc tank/dps/healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Gryphon Heart, Grand Warlord
    Lilith Tortorici - DC templar trials healer

    Notable Completions:
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  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    Before they make pets mandatory.They should make sure they can't steal spc buffs.
  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    Don't care because at least all classes finally got hurt with a nerf, although i would have preferred buffs compared to this.

    This is not a constructive attitude for a balance discussion.

    crystal frags is not what kills me.
    what kills me is that after i unload all i got into a sorc while he keeps spamming his shields and casting mass 10,000 lightning on me over and over and over and i'm not able cast invisibility because of the constant whirlwind all around me and also this thing swirling inside my character wont let him stealth and i cant invis because of that = i'm dead and it happens within a few seconds. i healed with vigor and also the 2 handed thing repeatedly but i'm over taken by the damage and have zero escape from it.
    i just die, there is no escape from sorc.
    if i see them i avoid the fight all together.

    i saw NO frags cast at me, none.

    Sounds like you have a bad build and crutch on cloak.
    Kena
    Legion XIII
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  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    Don't care because at least all classes finally got hurt with a nerf, although i would have preferred buffs compared to this.

    This is not a constructive attitude for a balance discussion.

    crystal frags is not what kills me.
    what kills me is that after i unload all i got into a sorc while he keeps spamming his shields and casting mass 10,000 lightning on me over and over and over and i'm not able cast invisibility because of the constant whirlwind all around me and also this thing swirling inside my character wont let him stealth and i cant invis because of that = i'm dead and it happens within a few seconds. i healed with vigor and also the 2 handed thing repeatedly but i'm over taken by the damage and have zero escape from it.
    i just die, there is no escape from sorc.
    if i see them i avoid the fight all together.

    i saw NO frags cast at me, none.

    Sounds like you have a bad build and crutch on cloak.

    so if someone dies within a few seconds to 40,000 damage that means they have a bad build and a crutch on cloak.
    hmm ...
    best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.

    worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor.
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    that's not what happens.
    best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.

    worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor.
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    and you know it. sorc
    best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.

    worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor.
  • Kikke
    Kikke
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    so 15k shields in a nonCP champaign is OP? just curius..
    And Ok, in before we can spam shield. in nonCP - No, we cant...
    Cleared Trials:
    - vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -

    "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
    -Someone said it, I guess.
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    .
    Don't care because at least all classes finally got hurt with a nerf, although i would have preferred buffs compared to this.

    This is not a constructive attitude for a balance discussion.

    crystal frags is not what kills me.
    what kills me is that after i unload all i got into a sorc while he keeps spamming his shields and casting mass 10,000 lightning on me over and over and over and i'm not able cast invisibility because of the constant whirlwind all around me and also this thing swirling inside my character wont let him stealth and i cant invis because of that = i'm dead and it happens within a few seconds. i healed with vigor and also the 2 handed thing repeatedly but i'm over taken by the damage and have zero escape from it.
    i just die, there is no escape from sorc.
    if i see them i avoid the fight all together.

    i saw NO frags cast at me, none.

    Sounds like you have a bad build and crutch on cloak.

    i am willing to bet that no matter who you speak with, that person will allways have a bad build unless they follow your way and your build.
    best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.

    worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor.
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    .
    Don't care because at least all classes finally got hurt with a nerf, although i would have preferred buffs compared to this.

    This is not a constructive attitude for a balance discussion.

    crystal frags is not what kills me.
    what kills me is that after i unload all i got into a sorc while he keeps spamming his shields and casting mass 10,000 lightning on me over and over and over and i'm not able cast invisibility because of the constant whirlwind all around me and also this thing swirling inside my character wont let him stealth and i cant invis because of that = i'm dead and it happens within a few seconds. i healed with vigor and also the 2 handed thing repeatedly but i'm over taken by the damage and have zero escape from it.
    i just die, there is no escape from sorc.
    if i see them i avoid the fight all together.

    i saw NO frags cast at me, none.

    Sounds like you have a bad build and crutch on cloak.

    i am willing to bet that no matter who you speak with, that person will allways have a bad build unless they follow your way and your build.

    i am going to agree with this ^
    best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.

    worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor.
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    I love the counter argument for this.

    "This move is easy to dodge it doesn't need a nerf."
    If it was so easy, then the damage could be increase to 100% and it wouldn't matter cause it''s "easy to dodge".
    "But a good Sorc knows when to use Frags so it'll hit"
    So it's NOT easy to dodge? Make up your mind Sorcs.

    Honestly, this won't even matter as Sorcs are still going to hit like trucks and be top in practically all fields of play.

    i am not alone in my beliefs on this.
    best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.

    worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor.
  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    i am willing to bet that no matter who you speak with, that person will allways have a bad build unless they follow your way and your build.

    Actually quite the opposite. I spend a lot of time educating people about game mechanics and teaching them how to theorycraft for themselves and adapt builds to their own play styles. :)

    No need to be a cynic and make assumptions about me.

    @NightbladeMechanics
    i have created several roll dodge builds, several knock down and gank builds. created hundreds of builds and tests and followed others advice and builds and done extensive study on this for what ? 4 years now, (or there abouts), and some how my imperfections just cant get past you.
    and my imperfect wording on the forums just doesn't suit you iether.
    and for some reason you want to target me repeatedly about my anger of the sorcerer abilities being way out line and make it public that i need .. what ?your profesional help and that i am simply a failure that i cant compete with overpowered classes and that i am out of line for making my complaints on a forum here with other people who agree with me ?

    i simply do not agree with your comments and insults.

    Ah, you've passed denial and entered anger! 4 years of frustration and failure... Let it all out! And is the jab at needing my professional services the beginning of bargaining? We might make great progress here tonight.

    But bargaining will get you nowhere. It'll suck, but you have to accept responsibility if you want to improve.

    Food for thought: if the problem isn't you, then how are so many other stamblades out there doing really well in all sorts of play styles, yet you're not?
    Kena
    Legion XIII
    Excellence without elitism
    Premier small scale PvP

    Legend
    NA/PC's original dueling and PvP community guild
    Now NA/PC's dueling, BGs, small scale, GvG, and general PvP community. We float just under 500 members. Mail me in game for an invite.


    Apex Predator.

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  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    I'm all for sorc nerfs, but this seems like a really, really weird change. I would much rather see the second explosion from Velocious gone and Hardened Ward made unstackable with Harness Magicka. Also, why has Dark Deal made it so long without getting a nerf? If any class had infinite sustain and high damage, it was definitely stam sorc.

    if they did that would fix the problem. imo.
    best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.

    worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor.
  • Twohothardware
    Twohothardware
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    MagSorc should be balanced around having among the highest burst damage, the best mobility through Streak which they could reduce the cost increase per cast, and then good sustainability through Dark Exchange, but to counter that MagSorc should be among the weakest classes for being able to take damage.

    MagSorc's being able to tank from huge shields better than a stamina player in heavy armor is what has caused the MagSorc imbalance to continue to spiral. Shields should put survivability in light armor around the same or slightly better than someone in medium armor without shields. They can reduce the shield size, they can make them critable, they can make it to where they can't stack, whatever. But you should not be able to wear light armor for max sustain and damage and be able to stand toe to toe with multiple players whaling on you like your in heavy armor.

    No light armor shield stacking sorc can tank nearly as well as a heavy armor Stam DK. Not even with imperial physique and pirate skeleton.

    There's not even a question, in the hands of equally skilled players the Stam DK is much more tanky and still capable of great pressure and solid burst. The illusion of sorc tankiness is perpetrated by bads that can't maintain their buffs and keep pressure up.

    Shields are very very strong 1v1, without doubt but they scale very poorly, even a theoretical 50k stack requires just like 4k dps from 5 players. Or less than 9k from 2.

    No StamDK build can both tank and put out the same damage that a MagSorc with 40k+ Magicka shields combined with Bone Pirate can do. Yes you can currently make a very tanky StamDK build but DK's abilities are based around sustained pressure rather than burst damage and since you obviously haven't played on the PTS the StamDK's tankiness and sustain just fell off a cliff with the removal of Major Mending and nerfs to healing, huge nerf to blocking, nerf to Battle Roar, removal of cost reduction CP, ect. MagSorc is the meta for Battlegrounds, not StamDK and it's because of the tankiness of shield stacking combined with high burst damage.
    Edited by Twohothardware on April 29, 2017 7:16AM
  • Berenhir
    Berenhir
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    MagSorc should be balanced around having among the highest burst damage, the best mobility through Streak which they could reduce the cost increase per cast, and then good sustainability through Dark Exchange, but to counter that MagSorc should be among the weakest classes for being able to take damage.

    MagSorc's being able to tank from huge shields better than a stamina player in heavy armor is what has caused the MagSorc imbalance to continue to spiral. Shields should put survivability in light armor around the same or slightly better than someone in medium armor without shields. They can reduce the shield size, they can make them critable, they can make it to where they can't stack, whatever. But you should not be able to wear light armor for max sustain and damage and be able to stand toe to toe with multiple players whaling on you like your in heavy armor.

    No light armor shield stacking sorc can tank nearly as well as a heavy armor Stam DK. Not even with imperial physique and pirate skeleton.

    There's not even a question, in the hands of equally skilled players the Stam DK is much more tanky and still capable of great pressure and solid burst. The illusion of sorc tankiness is perpetrated by bads that can't maintain their buffs and keep pressure up.

    Shields are very very strong 1v1, without doubt but they scale very poorly, even a theoretical 50k stack requires just like 4k dps from 5 players. Or less than 9k from 2.

    No StamDK build can both tank and put out the same damage that a MagSorc with 40k+ Magicka shields combined with Bone Pirate can do. Yes you can currently make a very tanky StamDK build but DK's abilities are based around sustained pressure rather than burst damage and since you obviously haven't played on the PTS the StamDK's tankiness and sustain just fell off a cliff with the removal of Major Mending and nerfs to healing, huge nerf to blocking, nerf to Battle Roar, removal of cost reduction CP, ect. MagSorc is the meta for Battlegrounds, not StamDK and it's because of the tankiness of shield stacking combined with high burst damage.

    You have obviously not played a sorc on PTS if you think shield stacking will still be as infinite as it is on live.

    Anyway, these changes to frags won't be the only thing for sorcs during this PTS. From the way they worded their announcement, this probably is one of the most irrelevant changes that zos only announced to set up a lethal nerf combo on sorcs.

    All shields gonna scale by level, mark my words, you heard it here first.
    PC EU - Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Vivec Kaalgrontiid

    currently playing...
    ... The Clawyer, Stamina Dragonknight
    ... Dodge-A-Lot, Stamina Nightblade
  • Valera Progib
    Valera Progib
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    MagSorc should be balanced around having among the highest burst damage, the best mobility through Streak which they could reduce the cost increase per cast, and then good sustainability through Dark Exchange, but to counter that MagSorc should be among the weakest classes for being able to take damage.

    MagSorc's being able to tank from huge shields better than a stamina player in heavy armor is what has caused the MagSorc imbalance to continue to spiral. Shields should put survivability in light armor around the same or slightly better than someone in medium armor without shields. They can reduce the shield size, they can make them critable, they can make it to where they can't stack, whatever. But you should not be able to wear light armor for max sustain and damage and be able to stand toe to toe with multiple players whaling on you like your in heavy armor.

    You should be careful, posts like this have a 50% proc chance to give cancer to caster.

    It is because of clueless people like you - this game is in such situation. Get a grip, seriously, try to tank as mag sorc atleast two people in PvP. Let your actions speak louder than words.


    I personally think that this nerf is acceptable. While maining a mag sorc in PvP I also agree with the general nerf shieldstack idea, it should be 1 ward/shield per bar, as I think this is the main problem, that you can cast healing ward and then protect it with hardened ward and harness magicka and re-apply them until you ar healed. People that slot heal from pets will still be able to shieldstack, but who cares, with two pets you are more annoying than dangerous.

    Remove pirate skeleton - this is the main reason people complain about sorc shields, because of major protection that works on shields. Shield stack was not a problem untill every sorc and their dog started to run pirate skeleton...

    Dark conversion/dark deal - should stun and damage on interrupt, otherwise it has ridiculous penalty... ZOS mentioned that they want people to feel awesome when casting dark conversion during a battle - well it doesn't feel that way, you can barely interrupt a stamsorc casting dark deal while you are using crushing shock non stop and still, stamsorc can move while using it and you are constantly interrupting it, but you can move and your eventually after streak/ball of lightning stamsorcs creates enough distance for succesful cast - that is just stupid.
    PC/EU 800 CP.
    PvP MagSorc.
    Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
    Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
    Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
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  • Derra
    Derra
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    Don't care because at least all classes finally got hurt with a nerf, although i would have preferred buffs compared to this.

    This is not a constructive attitude for a balance discussion.

    crystal frags is not what kills me.
    what kills me is that after i unload all i got into a sorc while he keeps spamming his shields and casting mass 10,000 lightning on me over and over and over and i'm not able cast invisibility because of the constant whirlwind all around me and also this thing swirling inside my character wont let him stealth and i cant invis because of that = i'm dead and it happens within a few seconds. i healed with vigor and also the 2 handed thing repeatedly but i'm over taken by the damage and have zero escape from it.
    i just die, there is no escape from sorc.
    if i see them i avoid the fight all together.

    i saw NO frags cast at me, none.

    Sounds like you have a bad build and crutch on cloak.

    It sounds more like he can´t distinguish between stamsorc and magsorc and on top of that does not use shadow image. Ok.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - Grand Overlord - Spotless Dro-m'Athra Destroyer pre one Tamriel
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - Grand Overlord
    ... - DC - NB

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