Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind

bebynnag · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

This is trash. They replaced useful cp, with a break free cost reduction which we already had, and a cp that is useless in pve, but cancerous in pvp. Really bad. I hope that they revert this, or at least compensate it with changes to some abilities.
Without those two how are we supposed to sustain on a trial boss?? With 600 cp many classes drain 1600 magicka per second (mag dk, sorc and nightblade)! How are we supposed to sustain on a stam templar? These changes are ***. And you can tell that these changes were made purely for pvp, because only in pvp those 2 cp cause problems. Just separate the two already.

^^^this^^^

BohnT · March 2017

I hate that change for PvP why would you make it harder for anyone and cripple low cp players even more. If you can reduce all regeneration with one cp you should be alle to increase all regeneration with one cp too.
Now you have a no brainer the counter is three times stronger than the main ability.
One cp to counter them all. This is bad for balance as it hurts sustain builds and helps heavy armor builds to be stronger than ever before

Turelus · March 2017

runagate wrote: »

I would dearly love to see a video of them try to get through anything endgame with a DPS race with this change.

The issue here isn't CP removal, it's that DPS races were added. DPS races are a horrible mechanic which punishes out of the box groups or innovation because the only tactic to win is "more damage".

I am super opposed to rage timers in game. If I group can stay alive and fight a boss for four hours before it drops, fair play they deserve that win. Not some arbitrary "oh you didn't kill it in five mins? group wipe"

Caza99 · March 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

The CP system is my single biggest issue with PvP in this game right now, I'm glad ZOS are at least addressing it's imbalance.

Why don't you play in Azura's Star then? You don't like CPs, play without. There is campaign made exactly for you.

Thank you for your insightful comment, I would never have thought of that myself. -_-
I already play in Azura's Star. Doesn't mean I can't take issue with the Champion System. I would love to play in TF and Haderus more often, but like I said...

Jitterbug · March 2017

Fewer mandatory CP stars. More fun ones.
Please.

Cherryblossom · March 2017

Just wondering why the Boxes aren't straight TBH.

Draxys · March 2017

Welp, magicka DKs will have fun with this one, since all the class skills still have insane costs from when people cried about them

Lieblingsjunge · March 2017

Aside from the Siphoning, I really hope these changes make it to live.
The CP makes the game *way* too forgiving. You can make as many mistakes as you'd like, but you'll still pull through thanks to the insane help CP is.

And speccing for damage, but still sustaining for all eternity is dull. You can't always have the best of both worlds o/

Turelus · March 2017

Draxys wrote: »

Welp, magicka DKs will have fun with this one, since all the class skills still have insane costs from when people cried about them

Considering we've only seen one side of this (the CP changes) it's hard to judge how bad it will be for classes. These might also come with huge breaks in costs for DK skills.

STEVIL · March 2017

LordGavus wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Hi, I'm the person who took all these pictures. I didn't want them to be inflammatory so much as "huh, that changed, odd"... sorry Rich. ):

I didn't get the chance to compare skill costs between here and live, unfortunately, but I do not think ZOS employees are gleefully wringing their hands as they plot new ways to ruin your specs. It might end up that you're getting your recovery anyway through other changes, and the new Siphoner star might just be a PVP-oriented one like.. what is it, Ironclad? The one that gives crit res?

Don't make a huge judgment call off of a few pictures or pieces of the puzzle.

My first thought on seeing these was "this is not the whole picture".

I dont disagree with making need for sustain play a larger role but my bet is this is the part of the equation that shifts it one way but there are other mitigating factors.

Maybe some costs go down.
Maybe return goes up from hvy atts.
Maybe points in health feed all regens (or reduce cost) bigly, making health vs stam/mag even more of sustain vs offense choice.
Maybe light/medium get more passive cost reduce while hvy gets constitution.

Dont know but as long as CP had such a YUGE hit on costs, the other options were used less so this piece of the puzzle being rather drastic is within the ballpark of reason.

I will wait to see the whole picture before i start listening to the tiny egg-layers and panicing.

My thoughts exactly.
We don't know what other changes are coming with this.

It's been stated ZOS want health to be more important, now they are reducing sustain options. It would not surprise me if Regen ends up being based off health amount.

Now, I am concerned about my magsorc sustain, but let's wait and see what changes actually make it to the game.

yeah my magsorcs will likely need to change too. My bet is most of my characters will.

The word i would use here is "excited" as opposed to "concerned."

One of the things I like about playing a living breathing and evolving game is the once or twice a year when significant changes to the world occur and that we have to re-think our existing ways of doing things.

if i were still playing the same chars with the same gear and the same skills and the same rotations i was 12 months or 24 months ago, i likely wouldn't be playing now.

of course, back in the old days, i remember when running cost reduction enchants wasn't "dumb" and there were trade-offs between max-dam and manageable sustain.

Patouf · March 2017

Everything is so better with CP :

-PvE solo sustain
-Diversity of PvP builds + creativity + theorycrafting
-Hard for zerg to kill
-Hard for One Shot Build to kill
-Can 1 vs X
-Heavy armor is not the only one viable armor

Lag and FPS drops do not come from CP, so ZoS be sincere.

Tommy_The_Gun · March 2017

Minalan wrote: »

They're nerfing resources, but not block cost reduction CP. it's clear ZOS doesn't spend any time in Cyrodiil.

Yup... pretty much...
They will encourage people to use more "bomb" builds (glass canons 1 milion dmg proc builds)... What ZOS needs to do instead is to change how certain skills work in PvP (for example total rebalance of destor ult, which is incredibly broken).
They did that once for NB:

- Ambush: If the target is a player, they are briefly snared instead of stunned.
So why not the other skills (classes / armour /weapon skills ? ) ^

btw. I though that in time PvP in cyro will be more and more polished and balanced.. now I see it is going in a completely wrong direction...

BohnT · March 2017

The Patch looks like we'll see an increase in heavy armor proc build as they don't need resources for additional damage and they gain about 90% of their resources from different things than regeneration.
Redguard will be even stronger as they get a fixed amount of stamina every 5 sec.
It will buff nightblades as they have good resource management with siphoning attacks
Sorc sustai won't take a hit because of dark deal

danno8 · March 2017

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Just wondering why the Boxes aren't straight TBH.

Because they are using a cell phone to take a picture of the screen.

Tommy_The_Gun · March 2017

Those changes in CP are just bad news.

Not only for PvP which will cause:
- DPS build to do even more insane DPS

- Lack of stamina resource to break free or magicka to heal / cleanse when necessary...

- How will be players suppose to dodge some AOE in PvP with almost no stamina recovery ?!

Also bad for PvE players who just base their resource management on those CP passives... wtf

...not to mention it is a insane buff for some racial recourse re-gen passives

Long time ago when I unlocked my first CP I thought:
"Oh.. ok so this is how can I compensate for my racial passive and just get close to the cap with everything right ? So racial passives will be almost irrelevant right ?"

NOPE... how naive.. it is ZOS... instead of balancing racial passives we got 2 - 4 races with the best ones and the rest is just bottom of the barrel...

Racial passives which were supposed to be marginal and almost irrelevant in late game will become in most cases too relevant...

And if this information is true, now ZOS just killed PvP for many non - Altmer, Redguard, Khajiit players :'(

bitels · March 2017

Before we will proclaim end of the world, I would like to see rest of changes they made. Skill cost, armor/weapon/class passives, rest of the CP trees etc.

DMuehlhausen · March 2017

Minalan wrote: »

They're nerfing resources, but not block cost reduction CP. it's clear ZOS doesn't spend any time in Cyrodiil.

PvP, like all MMORPG PvE based games is more or less an added on mini game. So you're right they don't spend as much time doing it. Changes they make are designed more around the vast majority of players.

Olupajmibanan · March 2017

Caza99 wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

The CP system is my single biggest issue with PvP in this game right now, I'm glad ZOS are at least addressing it's imbalance.

Why don't you play in Azura's Star then? You don't like CPs, play without. There is campaign made exactly for you.

Thank you for your insightful comment, I would never have thought of that myself. -_-
I already play in Azura's Star. Doesn't mean I can't take issue with the Champion System. I would love to play in TF and Haderus more often, but like I said...

You forgot that there are actually players who like CP system in pvp. That's why we have different campaigns, to satisfy both segments.

If CPs are removed from pvp completely, how would be TF different from Azura? And why would you even bother playing in TF if Azura is exactly the same?

Just let this as it is. You have no right to complain about CPs in PvP since you can freely chose to play with or without them.

cjthibs · March 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

The CP system is my single biggest issue with PvP in this game right now, I'm glad ZOS are at least addressing it's imbalance.

Why don't you play in Azura's Star then? You don't like CPs, play without. There is campaign made exactly for you.

Thank you for your insightful comment, I would never have thought of that myself. -_-
I already play in Azura's Star. Doesn't mean I can't take issue with the Champion System. I would love to play in TF and Haderus more often, but like I said...

You forgot that there are actually players who like CP system in pvp. That's why we have different campaigns, to satisfy both segments.

If CPs are removed from pvp completely, how would be TF different from Azura? And why would you even bother playing in TF if Azura is exactly the same?

Just let this as it is. You have no right to complain about CPs in PvP since you can freely chose to play with or without them.

People do have a right to complain about whatever they want. It's called free speech.

But, fair enough, what you'll actually see a lot of people say is that they wish CP would be reworked in such a way that didn't require its wholesale removal for a sense of fair play. An actual horizontal system like what was promised.

ADarklore · March 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Those changes in CP are just bad news.

Not only for PvP which will cause:
- DPS build to do even more insane DPS
- Lack of stamina resource to break free or magicka to heal / cleanse when necessary...
- How will be players suppose to dodge some AOE in PvP with almost no stamina recovery ?!

Also bad for PvE players who just base their resource management on those CP passives... wtf
...not to mention it is a insane buff for some racial recourse re-gen passives

Long time ago when I unlocked my first CP I thought:
"Oh.. ok so this is how can I compensate for my racial passive and just get close to the cap with everything right ? So racial passives will be almost irrelevant right ?"

NOPE... how naive.. it is ZOS... instead of balancing racial passives we got 2 - 4 races with the best ones and the rest is just bottom of the barrel...

Racial passives which were supposed to be marginal and almost irrelevant in late game will become in most cases too relevant...

And if this information is true, now ZOS just killed PvP for many non - Altmer, Redguard, Khajiit players :'(

It is those players who base their resource management off the CP passives that they are specifically targeting. They said months ago that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for resource management, instead, players simply used the CP passives and used all damage enchants instead. Now, those same players will be forced to use Cost Reduction enchants.

Sneaky-Snurr · March 2017

*knocks on each Devs' head*
Hey uh.. is there anything inside?

Enslaved · March 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Those changes in CP are just bad news.

Not only for PvP which will cause:
- DPS build to do even more insane DPS
- Lack of stamina resource to break free or magicka to heal / cleanse when necessary...
- How will be players suppose to dodge some AOE in PvP with almost no stamina recovery ?!

Also bad for PvE players who just base their resource management on those CP passives... wtf
...not to mention it is a insane buff for some racial recourse re-gen passives

Long time ago when I unlocked my first CP I thought:
"Oh.. ok so this is how can I compensate for my racial passive and just get close to the cap with everything right ? So racial passives will be almost irrelevant right ?"

NOPE... how naive.. it is ZOS... instead of balancing racial passives we got 2 - 4 races with the best ones and the rest is just bottom of the barrel...

Racial passives which were supposed to be marginal and almost irrelevant in late game will become in most cases too relevant...

And if this information is true, now ZOS just killed PvP for many non - Altmer, Redguard, Khajiit players :'(

I can see that one set will be ok from now on - the return of Trainee. Use it with tri stat drink and you will have solid stats + solid regen. On the other hand that means you have to drop one of other sets... I guess I have to see what to remove from my sDK, its either vicecannon or viper. On mDK I can't drop BSW or rose, so Im screwed. Might bring back my sNB since gankers need no regen at all. Or mSorc, since its BSW+Lich/VD depending on what of the 3 zergs we fight against ( AD, DC or Green).

IwakuraLain42 · March 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

It is those players who base their resource management off the CP passives that they are specifically targeting. They said months ago that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for resource management, instead, players simply used the CP passives and used all damage enchants instead. Now, those same players will be forced to use Cost Reduction enchants.

Which means that, unless we get some damage enhancements in the green tree, a massive nerf to damage. And if we loose both CP'S where else in the green tree are we supposed to put these CP points ? Everything else in that tree is not that useful from a dps perspective.

But regardless of these questions the fact remains that this is (again) a failure in communication from ZOS. Releasing (or rather not releasing) that information on a side note on a conference without telling the rest of the player base is bad. How about releasing some information at the same time where the game is supposed to go, esp. with such an important topic ?

Kodrac · March 2017

In another thread someone was asking about more CP levels making characters too powerful for the game and I said they'll just change the CPs around, they aren't permanent, and here we are.

GreenhaloX · March 2017

That would be something (probably not for the better) if the passive/points for Warlord or Mooncalf are taken away. My Warlord and Mooncalf are so low right now, for I had to use those points to plus up for my current Treasure Hunter option. I'm basically useless in vet dungeons or trials currently. I can see a lot of contents being a bit more challenging if these are the changes to be emplaced with the Morrowind expansion.

begemotz · March 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

GazettE wrote: »

Now im thinking whether i should pre order morrowind or not.

Never pre-order. Never.

Pre-Ordering is one of these new concepts that completely plays into the hand of the company. I will.never EVER understand why this has been allowed to become the Norm... Well I do understand but wish I didn't....

Incentives for pre-ordering is a risk management strategy for companies-- it hedges against negative reviews about the game once released-- I generally never pre-order.

ereboz · March 2017

This is gonna destroy pve to once again cater to PvP. They gotta find a way to balance this. I already have issues with magicka

BohnT · March 2017

ereboz wrote: »

This is gonna destroy pve to once again cater to PvP. They gotta find a way to balance this. I already have issues with magicka

No pvp player wanted this change as it hurts pvp much more than pve

Tasear · March 2017

Jaeme Diam wrote: »

Ridiculous change. If it goes live it'll be my last straw.

I am going to ahead and bold this one.

Tinus_92 · March 2017

Perhaps too early to judge, but within trials such as vmol most groups are already having issues with putting out enough damage, with a sustain which is barely enough do avoid running out. More sustain necessary > less damage due to changing setup > trials becoming more difficult due to bringing less group damage > less people able to complete it. (sub-)Top guilds will still be able to continue (although less satisfying) and anyone else won't be able to complete them. Let alone hardmodes, which already is being done by <1% of players.