Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind

MercTheMage

Are you *** kidding me? No more cost reduction? Eat *** ***.

MercTheMage

QUIT *** OVER THE PVE PLAYERS WITH YOUR *** DECISIONS.

Fodore

I'm pretty upset

Ghostextechnica

It's way too early to freak out.

As I said before.. this may be one change out-of-context and they may be making a positive change to sustain which would make those CP points pointless to take.

Lylith

Aquanova wrote: »

These are senseless changes. ZOS just doesn't know when to leave things well enough alone.

qft, because it cannot be said enough.

zos needs to STOP FIXING WHAT ISN'T BROKEN.

there is no lack of broken *** that actually NEEDS fixing.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Ep1kMalware

amasuriel wrote: »

They are obviously trying to make more build diversity but making it so you cannot wear all full damage sets and have good sustain, but my concern is that people will not adapt the way they think.

For every group than decides BiS is now lich and BSW instead of moondancer, there will be 2 more who demand (as if they don't now) 2 templar healers throwing Luminous Shards (the damage morph will not be an option any more) to make up for it.

It will mean healers other than templars will not be even remotely acceptable, and templars healers will be under enormous pressure to spam luminous shards as fast as possible.

It will also mean further distance between the ultra elite (who will keep their all DPS layouts and just demand more resources from their healers) and normal players (who will get used to having a damage set and a sustain set on them for 4 man, soloing etc). The gap between the top guilds and everyone else will grow even wider, as the playstyle and gear will be different.

This is my dread prediction if this goes live as is.

I thought bout this some time later. It'll buff stam dps I guess, because shards benefit them the most. I should be completely fine next patch. It's just going to hurt the people already struggling the most. But yeh, vma will sure be fun >.>

Ep1kMalware

zaria wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Just think of this zos: if everything is nerfed, nothing is nerfed in the end, BUT players will feel the decrease in power, and they will like it less, i mean who likes it when you get nerfed, not only that, it will make the game less fun, just imagine having to sit there spamming heavy attack because you drained all your resources (there is a reason why the wow team decided to give basically infinite resource), expect some people to leave if you go through with this.

On the other hand if everything is buffed, noting is, BUT player will feel the increase in power and they will probably like it more. Buffs>nerfs.
Sitting there doing nothing is not fun.

Nerfs > Buffs, power creep is bad and ruins the game slowly over time.
This is a game without cooldown, resource sustain should matter. You can't compare it to a game that relies on cool down management like WoW.
CP made sustaining way too easy. I completely approve of nerfing this aspect of the CP system.

You don't understand how power creep works.
In my post i said buff everything=buff nothing, In that everything bosses and npc are included, but at least now you deal more damage, making you feel more impactful, this is why i said that buffs are better then nerfs, it's basically human psychology, remove something and it will be felt much more then if something is added.

Power creep apply only when the content isn't scaled with the amount of power a player has.

So tell me about how the content is always being buffed every patch, because it isn't. We're getting more powerful with each patch but content hasn't been adjusted for 1 year now. And I highly doubt they are going to change that. It took them 1.5 years to upscale the old trials and dungeon.

I understand very well how power creep works, I've been around since release and I can tell you exactly that we've got quite the power creep going on here. So yes, maybe it would be nice if everything was buffed equally but that won't happen.

Power creep in PvE is an good thing as long as it don't go out of control.
You combat it by adding new and harder content.
CP is slow power creep.
Doing an all over the board major nerf would be devastating for all the players who are progressing trough pve group content.
Suddenly they can not do the dungeons they did before.
ZOS probably realize that that would do to their bottom-line.

Yeh the power creep in pve isn't even an issue, it just gives players more to do as they level through the game. Pvp shouldnt be punished for it and pve shouldnt be crippled either. Their balance changes give no balamce at all because whatever side of the scale they improve end up hurting the other one more. Maybe they should just use seperate servers or something.

Egonieser

Good! About time people started thinking through their builds instead of piling CP into passives that negate the inherent weaknesses of certain OP setups. Now there will actually be downsides instead of all positives and no repercussions. People seem to want all the DPS there is with no penalty to other things, mainly regeneration/sustain, that's not how things usually work and that's not how balance is obtained.
High DPS = Low sustain, want sustain - sacrifice DPS, simple as that.
I just hope one day they remove or completely rework CP system - IMO it was a huge mistake from the get-go

ZoS has finally listened (somewhat)!

Anti_Virus

Egonieser wrote: »

Good! About time people started thinking through their builds instead of piling CP into passives that negate the inherent weaknesses of certain OP setups. Now there will actually be downsides instead of all positives and no repercussions. People seem to want all the DPS there is with no penalty to other things, mainly regeneration/sustain, that's not how things usually work and that's not how balance is obtained.
High DPS = Low sustain, want sustain - sacrifice DPS, simple as that.
I just hope one day they remove or completely rework CP system - IMO it was a huge mistake from the get-go

ZoS has finally listened (somewhat)!

I too am on board with these changes, knee jerk reactions won't help you here this maybe a good thing.

andreasranasen

Why rework CP or even talk about removing cp when the game been out for three years already. The game is waay past the stage of making major changes to the core game. What they should be focusing on is improving the overall experience of the game and adding content like Morrowind to keep players interested and hopefully invite new players to try out the game.

Keep the game consistent and don't come with BS changes no one even asked for.

Blackbird_V

Guessing pvpers moaning got this change?

Great, lets *** over pve even more......

JinMori

Egonieser wrote: »

Good! About time people started thinking through their builds instead of piling CP into passives that negate the inherent weaknesses of certain OP setups. Now there will actually be downsides instead of all positives and no repercussions. People seem to want all the DPS there is with no penalty to other things, mainly regeneration/sustain, that's not how things usually work and that's not how balance is obtained.
High DPS = Low sustain, want sustain - sacrifice DPS, simple as that.
I just hope one day they remove or completely rework CP system - IMO it was a huge mistake from the get-go

ZoS has finally listened (somewhat)!

But you know what, all of these problems that you are talking about are purely pvp wise.
You didn't even try to think it from a pve prospective.
If your gear doesn't give you sustain, your abilities should.
And what are they gonna do now? Completely remove the cp system? it's 2 years late for that. If they remove it now many people who love this system will just leave the game, rather improve on it, but if you take away from something you must give back something, you can't just take away 16 % reduced cost, sustain will go to ***, and good luck doing v trials without any sustain, or without damage.

Pve is a much more controlled environment, cp aren't a big problem, just buff the boss, while in pvp you can make crazy builds, so i'm of the idea that for pvp cp points should be disabled, or reworked without affecting pve.
Would prefer the latter.

Tapio75

I wish ZOS would learn to fix things with a scalpel instead of warhammer.

Ajaxduo

Wtb minor stamina steal xD

zaria

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Just think of this zos: if everything is nerfed, nothing is nerfed in the end, BUT players will feel the decrease in power, and they will like it less, i mean who likes it when you get nerfed, not only that, it will make the game less fun, just imagine having to sit there spamming heavy attack because you drained all your resources (there is a reason why the wow team decided to give basically infinite resource), expect some people to leave if you go through with this.

On the other hand if everything is buffed, noting is, BUT player will feel the increase in power and they will probably like it more. Buffs>nerfs.
Sitting there doing nothing is not fun.

Nerfs > Buffs, power creep is bad and ruins the game slowly over time.
This is a game without cooldown, resource sustain should matter. You can't compare it to a game that relies on cool down management like WoW.
CP made sustaining way too easy. I completely approve of nerfing this aspect of the CP system.

You don't understand how power creep works.
In my post i said buff everything=buff nothing, In that everything bosses and npc are included, but at least now you deal more damage, making you feel more impactful, this is why i said that buffs are better then nerfs, it's basically human psychology, remove something and it will be felt much more then if something is added.

Power creep apply only when the content isn't scaled with the amount of power a player has.

So tell me about how the content is always being buffed every patch, because it isn't. We're getting more powerful with each patch but content hasn't been adjusted for 1 year now. And I highly doubt they are going to change that. It took them 1.5 years to upscale the old trials and dungeon.

I understand very well how power creep works, I've been around since release and I can tell you exactly that we've got quite the power creep going on here. So yes, maybe it would be nice if everything was buffed equally but that won't happen.

Power creep in PvE is an good thing as long as it don't go out of control.
You combat it by adding new and harder content.
CP is slow power creep.
Doing an all over the board major nerf would be devastating for all the players who are progressing trough pve group content.
Suddenly they can not do the dungeons they did before.
ZOS probably realize that that would do to their bottom-line.

Yeh the power creep in pve isn't even an issue, it just gives players more to do as they level through the game. Pvp shouldnt be punished for it and pve shouldnt be crippled either. Their balance changes give no balamce at all because whatever side of the scale they improve end up hurting the other one more. Maybe they should just use seperate servers or something.

Simply having skills work a bit different would solve lots of it. It would let you balance independent and stil let players combine pvp and pve with an gear change on the medium level.
I left the game before we got CP, and resorces was an serious issue, managed to do AA and Hell Ra Citadel but not the next raid up the list, was one veteran dungeon I did not do. Now I have not done veteran dungeons yet.
Gold weapons and the rest purple is way ahead of that I had back then so I probably do better now?
does not make it an good idea.

zaria

Tapio75 wrote: »

I wish ZOS would learn to fix things with a scalpel instead of warhammer.

War-hammers are subtle precision tools.
This is more like close air support by death star

Asgari

I would say maybe 15% of the pvp community will like these changes. A large majority pve too and these changes will make everything drag on

cpuScientist

This is the time when I just don't think ZOS knows how to interact with players. 5 pages of rage and not a single reply. Just come in and quickly say, these changes are not final and there are more things playing into the mix that is not shown in those screenshots. We will have more info coming soon

Done thread eased up and misinformation no longer being spread. INTERACT WITH THE FORUMS!!! lol geez.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

Lylith

there's already a place fot hat

zaria wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

I wish ZOS would learn to fix things with a scalpel instead of warhammer.

War-hammers are subtle precision tools.
This is more like [extreme ranged] close air support by death star

slight edit for lack of accuracy on zos' part.

Lylith

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

I would say maybe 15% of the pvp community will like these changes. A large majority pve too and these changes will make everything drag on

that 15 pct might consider moving to azura. what they advocate is already in-game.

WhiteMage

redspecter23 wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

That's good, but... combat is still better without CP.

You clearly don't play PVE at all. That would cripple players into Oblivion

Well, it HAS been a while. Thing is though, that CP point is only useful in a PvP environment, meaning CP is not on the way out of PvP (yet). CP should be removed from PvP for the sake of balance (and maybe even performance), and while if it was removed from PvE it would decrease the tremendous power gap, guilty as charged, I don't really care about that as much. I thought it went without saying that the removal of CP in PvE would necessitate its own slew of balance changes which would include reducing damage and healing as well as the "difficulty" of PvE monsters. If you want I COULD go into some specifics, though they would deal with non-dimensional values.

Tapio75

zaria wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

I wish ZOS would learn to fix things with a scalpel instead of warhammer.

War-hammers are subtle precision tools.
This is more like close air support by death star

Red leader red leader....!!

LordGavus

STEVIL wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Hi, I'm the person who took all these pictures. I didn't want them to be inflammatory so much as "huh, that changed, odd"... sorry Rich. ):

I didn't get the chance to compare skill costs between here and live, unfortunately, but I do not think ZOS employees are gleefully wringing their hands as they plot new ways to ruin your specs. It might end up that you're getting your recovery anyway through other changes, and the new Siphoner star might just be a PVP-oriented one like.. what is it, Ironclad? The one that gives crit res?

Don't make a huge judgment call off of a few pictures or pieces of the puzzle.

My first thought on seeing these was "this is not the whole picture".

I dont disagree with making need for sustain play a larger role but my bet is this is the part of the equation that shifts it one way but there are other mitigating factors.

Maybe some costs go down.
Maybe return goes up from hvy atts.
Maybe points in health feed all regens (or reduce cost) bigly, making health vs stam/mag even more of sustain vs offense choice.
Maybe light/medium get more passive cost reduce while hvy gets constitution.

Dont know but as long as CP had such a YUGE hit on costs, the other options were used less so this piece of the puzzle being rather drastic is within the ballpark of reason.

I will wait to see the whole picture before i start listening to the tiny egg-layers and panicing.

My thoughts exactly.
We don't know what other changes are coming with this.

It's been stated ZOS want health to be more important, now they are reducing sustain options. It would not surprise me if Regen ends up being based off health amount.

Now, I am concerned about my magsorc sustain, but let's wait and see what changes actually make it to the game.

redspecter23

WhiteMage wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

That's good, but... combat is still better without CP.

You clearly don't play PVE at all. That would cripple players into Oblivion

Well, it HAS been a while. Thing is though, that CP point is only useful in a PvP environment, meaning CP is not on the way out of PvP (yet). CP should be removed from PvP for the sake of balance (and maybe even performance), and while if it was removed from PvE it would decrease the tremendous power gap, guilty as charged, I don't really care about that as much. I thought it went without saying that the removal of CP in PvE would necessitate its own slew of balance changes which would include reducing damage and healing as well as the "difficulty" of PvE monsters. If you want I COULD go into some specifics, though they would deal with non-dimensional values.

I totally agree that a change like this SHOULD lead to other pve related balance changes to compensate, but this is ZOS we're talking about. This is a major issue here and they don't even have the decency to comment on it. There are likely many, many pve players who would outright quit if this change was made without any other changes to balance it out, myself included. This is something ZOS needs to talk about sooner rather than later.

dreddurius

ZOS, just remove everything. I mean everything.

Araviel2

RIP medium and light armor. everyone is going to use heavy after this, and black rose is going to be the set that rules them all.

cjthibs

andreasranasen wrote: »

Why rework CP or even talk about removing cp when the game been out for three years already. The game is waay past the stage of making major changes to the core game. What they should be focusing on is improving the overall experience of the game and adding content like Morrowind to keep players interested and hopefully invite new players to try out the game.

Keep the game consistent and don't come with BS changes no one even asked for.

CP didn't make an appearance until more than a year into the game's life. ...and One Tamriel was one hell of a huge core game change which only happened a few months ago. It's not 'too late,' never is.

rhapsodious

cpuScientist wrote: »

This is the time when I just don't think ZOS knows how to interact with players. 5 pages of rage and not a single reply. Just come in and quickly say, these changes are not final and there are more things playing into the mix that is not shown in those screenshots. We will have more info coming soon

Done thread eased up and misinformation no longer being spread. INTERACT WITH THE FORUMS!!! lol geez.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

Gina, Rich, Wheeler and anyone else from ZOS just finished showfloor stuff at PAX 4.5 hours ago, not to mention the cleanup. Then they're dying in their hotel rooms before flying back to MD tomorrow. They're human. Please chill.

mewcatus

I actually agree with this changes. This actually helps lift mana regen sets like Lich and bloodthorn as well as reduce spell cost runes up a bit. At this point in the game, players already overwhelmingly favor spell damage runes. This sort of changes will force the player to make meaningful changes, especially towards the end game.

Another noteworthy point is this, this supposed 'loss in dps' will help to mitigate the rise in CP Cap over 600 if it occurs. Which I remember stating time and time over and again. They want to keep DPS levels constant without having to alter mob stats, to keep power creep in check. In order to raise CP levels while keeping the former statement true, current effective DPS must be lowered to compensate for the rise.

Vindication feels sweet.