Erasure wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

That new duration on curse looks juicy. 8 wall, 8.5 curse, 10 LL are pretty good timings.

It goes off 8.5 after 3.5, or at 12. Test.

Ok, so I'm trying to get my head around this. We, the devs of ESO, want to make your rotations simpler presumably so you don't have to use buff trackers to do functional dps. We therefore make the three primary dps dots for sorc have 8, 10, and 12 second durations. We also buff up one of the NB dots to make them functional but leave it at a duration of 11.5 seconds making their dots 8 cripple, 8 wall, 11.5 twisting and variable for the raid redundant relentless. None of this even mentions the durations of some of the self buffs you may be using to get your major and minor buffs to avoid mainlining potions.

Explain to me how any of this works without a buff tracker which, I gather you don't have on console and for which the add on writers that write on PC keep quitting (yes I would like FTC back and updated to have nice srendar style bars without the nightmare of setting up srendar's).

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

First, Curse duration is 12 seconds, not 8.5, I agree that Rich's post was misleading, but the people who tested it all confirmed that it lasted 12 seconds and not 8.5, which is a shame. The rotation won't be too clean, especially on consoles where you'd have to keep track of a 8.5 second interval between your explosions rather than just simply reapplying it as it is on live. So IMO they've made the rotation harder and also more boring than it was before (seriously how hard is it? LL > WoE > Curse > FPx3 > Curse > FP > rinse and repeat).

Second, why are you front barring a shield and using Surge? You should be using spell power potions, not Surge, its a huge loss of DPS (losing 1 Force Pulse or Frags every 3 rotations). Now that they've fixed Inner Light overriding potions, you can back bar a shield (if you REALLY want one) and front bar the execute. Execute on the front bar, means Frags in execute phase = DPS increase.

Third, if you're not running an execute as a magicka sorcerer you are losing DPS, it should be on your bars regardless?

Forth, Merciless nets the highest DPS potential when using once every 20 seconds, not spammed. Same goes for Relentless for stamina NBs. BTW you can always front bar Twisting Path and switch something else over to the back. That way you'll be able to refresh the path as it runs out while keeping a clean rotation with Cripple and WoE (much like stam sorcs with Hurricane).

That's all I have to say and suggest.

As for surge, I really don't trust healers these days and will trust them even less after the patch when some of them will be trying to fit a 2.2 second channel in to proc that troll infal set. Healers just have a ton of buffs to do now and often don't actually do all that much healing especially on the ranged folks such as myself. Dead folks don't do much dps so it is worth it to me to keep some self heals on. Not mainlining pots is a nice side effect though having a dk run igneous for the whole group accomplishes this far more easily. Who really wants to mainline pots every trial anyway?

As for shield, have you done any hard mode trials lately? Most of the groups I have run with are requiring it and I would run one even if they weren't. Lots of deaths without. Really, it comes down to healers having way too much to do with all the buffs, debuffs, and resource returns, dps wanting to have a little health as possible to get max dps, and all that being worth slotting a shield to get. Some one shots now are also more advantageous to sheild than add health to live through. Health = as little as possible since we no longer get 2x or 1.5x as much health as other resources from attribute points and there are no soft caps. You can stop yelling at us for this by the way ZOS, you changed all the parameters to make it thus. We only took note and even warned you about it which you, of course, totally ignored.

I like your idea on the front barring twisting on the NB and back barring the 8 second dots. I will test and see if I find that a bar swap on NB is worth adding twisting path since, with just the other dots, the whole single target rotation can fit on one bar and that is a substantial dps increase. I am not currently sure what I will play after next patch as, with this sorc curse still being 12, it looks like the timings for everything ranged are just a huge mess.

Lastly, ZOS, let me try to help you out. If you want to make a rotation easier, and able to be performed without a buff tracker, abilities must have the same not different or longer durations. I am not really sure how this has escaped you but it seems to have done so. If abilities have the same duration we can apply them one after the other, weave the spammable till the duration expires, and then do it all the same again. That is easy to remember because every cycle is the same as the others. You don't even have to watch a timer, you can just count the weaves and watch the boss. My current NB, in fact, is not running any ability timers because it's rotation it 8x8x8 wheras my sorc at 3.5x8x10 is running timers. To add a little difficulty and variety to DOT's without making a total mess you could also have a standard long and short DOT length of which the long is twice the short 5/10 seconds 4/8 seconds or 6/12 seconds would all be good choices. My Templar has a 6x6x12 timing currently which is sub optimal since 8 second wall > 6 second one but at least sinks up. In this long and short DOT instance, people will probably put all the long dots on their back bar and short ones on the front. What you have now seems to be no standard at all leaving a total mess when it comes to rotations that basically require either practice as a full time job or a buff tracker and still will probably not be well managed for all but a few players. This particular sorc change, of curse timing, being advertised as making rotations easier is particularly baffling to us as you have added a 12 second dot to a class that previously had an 8 second, 10 second dot and a 3.5 second on that was basically run as a 4 second since, if you reapplied it early, you lost all damage. Basically, how we see it, is you gave us a 12 second dot in place of a 4x2 dot and the rotation, which was already sub optimal, is worse. This came as a great surprise since, as you were changing the duration anyway, you could have easily made it 8 or 10 seconds. I hope that explains what it means to "make a rotation easier." I would be happy to discuss this at any time as the current changes in no way accomplish the goal they were apparently intended to accomplish leading me to believe you mistakenly think that the key to making rotations easier is longer timings and not timings which coincide with one another.

Tonturri wrote: »

If it's such a low proc and doesn't matter why are you not advocating for a more useful utility change?

I am! o/ Anyway, at a guess, I think Chila is just protesting your analysis of the skill (correct me if I'm wrong). It actually might be a -decent- passive...punishing players for remaining below 15% hp long enough for it to proc (though again, if you get that low and your opponent doesn't smash you with an execute...I dunno.) Also keep in mind that the 'far too much dmg' bit - likely a massive chunk of that damage is overkill. Not only does something have to hit you while you're below 15% hp - which is going to do some amount of damage - but THEN implosion procs. Refer to Chila's math, then apply implosion proc, then figure out how much of the implosion proc damage was wasted.

Also, concerning 'free damage'. Pretty much ALL passives are free something. Do you have anything against NB 8% magicka? They just need to put points into that in order to get 'free damage' on all of their magicka skills. Or sorc minor crit chance bonus, and so on and so forth. Implosion is NOT free - they had to get you down below 15% hp, then get it to proc, right? xD I've never been able to do that...my opponents usually die to an execute or another ability before I can get a proc. Implosion is actually quite limited, so don't you dare compare it to Viper. I don't think people would complain very much about Viper if it was a 6% proc chance on hit only when your opponent was below 15% hp.

I am, however, all for it being changed because it plain irritates me. See my previous post. Do you have any suggestions on how to change it that aren't a boring +% damage or stat type?

I have an idea for Implosion passive replacement.

Rename Capacitor to Dynamo and leave it as is.

Replace implosion with a new Capacitor which reads:
Capacitor (Rank 1 = 3s, Rank 2 = 6s)
Use stored up power to sustain magics. Any active toggle remains in effect when you swap to a bar without that toggle slotted. This "overtime" period lasts for 3s (6s at rank 2) and the toggle will remain active (though no "when slotted" type bonuses apply if not actually slotted.) If the caster swaps back to the bar with the toggle slotted before the overtime period ends, everything continues normally. if the caster stays on the "off" bar and the overtime period expires, the toggle shuts down as it would without this passive.

This would help with the Sorcerer toggle issues a great deal, opening up options with risks, while still providing benefits for double-slotted toggles if someone wants to.

Like you, its rare for me to see implosion make a significant difference. Started spamming wrath well before implosion gets to playing a role so...

Anywho... could even add "when any storm calling ability is slotted..." to capacitor.

I'm not happy about the Hurricane nerf at all. It makes no damned sense... the main group of people I can see complaining about this are the gankers, who are usually the ones making threads calling for hurricane nerfs since it came out because they can't play the coward game anymore. In all the time I've played this game (even while not having a forum account until recently), I never have and never will call for other class' abilities to be nerfed, because having that extreme diversity in the game is what makes it interesting and fun. It's also what makes an Elder Scrolls game and Elder Scrolls game.

vMA runs will be much less pleasant because the overall AoE damage will be reduced and also it's one of the few stam morphs in the sorcerer line. The fact that it lacks major expedition is already bad enough, but like many others I adapted to that fact and learned to compensate. Now you're basically taking a big dump on stam sorcs for no good reason at all, it's not in the least bit what can be considered "balanced changes". If people whine that hurricane is too powerful, then buff their abilities to shut them up.

The fact that you're reducing the damage done by re-arming trap is already gonna hurt all kinds stam builds quite a lot. This combined with the hurricane nerf is just adding insult to injury for stam sorcs in my opinion.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

- Curse Unblockable and Blows up twice
- Storm Atro gets 25% buff in dmg
- EOtS is still Strong
- Flame staff and Shock Staff get 8% dmg buffs
- pets get defense buffs
- Force pulse unreflectable
- Meteor still unreflectable
- Heavy lightning attacks go through Reflect
- Ice staff with have defensive properties.

Ladies and Gentlemen The new Sorc meta for the next 3 months. If you'll excuse me I got a new mSorc to level up.

- Curse was unblockable before, they added an explosion at 12 seconds, most sorcs will keep recasting it at 3.5 like we do on live now. Waiting 12 seconds is actually a huge loss. nah it blows up at 3.5 and 8.5 secs not 12 secs
- Storm Atro was laughable before, it still is. Just stun the thing, it's not like it can move. it can CC break
- EOTS is used just as much if not more by nightblades than Sorcs. still used by sorcs tho right?
- Flame and shock staff have been behind every other weapon in the game forever, and it buffs all magicka classes that use them. yep are you happy now? Or is Zos still evil towards sorcs?
- Force pulse is a beam, when did you reflect radiant destruction last? radiant is a channled beam, force pulse is not, you can reflect lazer beams in real life right?
- How many reflectable stamina ultra are there again? none all are melee range
- Heavy lightning attacks are a channeled beam. yep and we will see a rise in Lightning staffs yet you will still QQ about wings

Ladies and gentlemen we have our first pub 13 "Nerf Sorc" whine post.

This thread will now go full bore potato.

Lol I didn't whine at all that's you dude just stating facts, and the fact the you got mad shows it. But what Am I saying you're the same guy who QQs about how UP his sorc is and how Stam builds are SOO OP.

When the patch goes live I will see you QQing about how your sorc is 'Free AP pinata' and DK is OP.

Curse explodes at 3.5 and 12 seconds - just saying.

You can reflect lazer beamz in rl - but that would make inevitably make rediant reflectable aswell. Or do laserpointers only light up for a splitsecond?

Nobody will run lightning staff over fire - simply bc sorcs lack the abilities buffed by lightning.

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Erasure wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

That new duration on curse looks juicy. 8 wall, 8.5 curse, 10 LL are pretty good timings.

It goes off 8.5 after 3.5, or at 12. Test.

Ok, so I'm trying to get my head around this. We, the devs of ESO, want to make your rotations simpler presumably so you don't have to use buff trackers to do functional dps. We therefore make the three primary dps dots for sorc have 8, 10, and 12 second durations. We also buff up one of the NB dots to make them functional but leave it at a duration of 11.5 seconds making their dots 8 cripple, 8 wall, 11.5 twisting and variable for the raid redundant relentless. None of this even mentions the durations of some of the self buffs you may be using to get your major and minor buffs to avoid mainlining potions.

Explain to me how any of this works without a buff tracker which, I gather you don't have on console and for which the add on writers that write on PC keep quitting (yes I would like FTC back and updated to have nice srendar style bars without the nightmare of setting up srendar's).

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

First, Curse duration is 12 seconds, not 8.5, I agree that Rich's post was misleading, but the people who tested it all confirmed that it lasted 12 seconds and not 8.5, which is a shame. The rotation won't be too clean, especially on consoles where you'd have to keep track of a 8.5 second interval between your explosions rather than just simply reapplying it as it is on live. So IMO they've made the rotation harder and also more boring than it was before (seriously how hard is it? LL > WoE > Curse > FPx3 > Curse > FP > rinse and repeat).

Second, why are you front barring a shield and using Surge? You should be using spell power potions, not Surge, its a huge loss of DPS (losing 1 Force Pulse or Frags every 3 rotations). Now that they've fixed Inner Light overriding potions, you can back bar a shield (if you REALLY want one) and front bar the execute. Execute on the front bar, means Frags in execute phase = DPS increase.

Third, if you're not running an execute as a magicka sorcerer you are losing DPS, it should be on your bars regardless?

Forth, Merciless nets the highest DPS potential when using once every 20 seconds, not spammed. Same goes for Relentless for stamina NBs. BTW you can always front bar Twisting Path and switch something else over to the back. That way you'll be able to refresh the path as it runs out while keeping a clean rotation with Cripple and WoE (much like stam sorcs with Hurricane).

That's all I have to say and suggest.

As for surge, I really don't trust healers these days and will trust them even less after the patch when some of them will be trying to fit a 2.2 second channel in to proc that troll infal set. Healers just have a ton of buffs to do now and often don't actually do all that much healing especially on the ranged folks such as myself. Dead folks don't do much dps so it is worth it to me to keep some self heals on. Not mainlining pots is a nice side effect though having a dk run igneous for the whole group accomplishes this far more easily. Who really wants to mainline pots every trial anyway?

As for shield, have you done any hard mode trials lately? Most of the groups I have run with are requiring it and I would run one even if they weren't. Lots of deaths without. Really, it comes down to healers having way too much to do with all the buffs, debuffs, and resource returns, dps wanting to have a little health as possible to get max dps, and all that being worth slotting a shield to get. Some one shots now are also more advantageous to sheild than add health to live through. Health = as little as possible since we no longer get 2x or 1.5x as much health as other resources from attribute points and there are no soft caps. You can stop yelling at us for this by the way ZOS, you changed all the parameters to make it thus. We only took note and even warned you about it which you, of course, totally ignored.

I like your idea on the front barring twisting on the NB and back barring the 8 second dots. I will test and see if I find that a bar swap on NB is worth adding twisting path since, with just the other dots, the whole single target rotation can fit on one bar and that is a substantial dps increase. I am not currently sure what I will play after next patch as, with this sorc curse still being 12, it looks like the timings for everything ranged are just a huge mess.

Lastly, ZOS, let me try to help you out. If you want to make a rotation easier, and able to be performed without a buff tracker, abilities must have the same not different or longer durations. I am not really sure how this has escaped you but it seems to have done so. If abilities have the same duration we can apply them one after the other, weave the spammable till the duration expires, and then do it all the same again. That is easy to remember because every cycle is the same as the others. You don't even have to watch a timer, you can just count the weaves and watch the boss. My current NB, in fact, is not running any ability timers because it's rotation it 8x8x8 wheras my sorc at 3.5x8x10 is running timers. To add a little difficulty and variety to DOT's without making a total mess you could also have a standard long and short DOT length of which the long is twice the short 5/10 seconds 4/8 seconds or 6/12 seconds would all be good choices. My Templar has a 6x6x12 timing currently which is sub optimal since 8 second wall > 6 second one but at least sinks up. In this long and short DOT instance, people will probably put all the long dots on their back bar and short ones on the front. What you have now seems to be no standard at all leaving a total mess when it comes to rotations that basically require either practice as a full time job or a buff tracker and still will probably not be well managed for all but a few players. This particular sorc change, of curse timing, being advertised as making rotations easier is particularly baffling to us as you have added a 12 second dot to a class that previously had an 8 second, 10 second dot and a 3.5 second on that was basically run as a 4 second since, if you reapplied it early, you lost all damage. Basically, how we see it, is you gave us a 12 second dot in place of a 4x2 dot and the rotation, which was already sub optimal, is worse. This came as a great surprise since, as you were changing the duration anyway, you could have easily made it 8 or 10 seconds. I hope that explains what it means to "make a rotation easier." I would be happy to discuss this at any time as the current changes in no way accomplish the goal they were apparently intended to accomplish leading me to believe you mistakenly think that the key to making rotations easier is longer timings and not timings which coincide with one another.

A NB running 8x8x8? That explains why you underperform....youre losing ticks off of your twisting big time..a NB rotation is more complex than that....

Force pulse should deal around 10k tooltip dmg ._.
It does hit kinda hard.

Akimbro wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

- Curse Unblockable and Blows up twice
- Storm Atro gets 25% buff in dmg
- EOtS is still Strong
- Flame staff and Shock Staff get 8% dmg buffs
- pets get defense buffs
- Force pulse unreflectable
- Meteor still unreflectable
- Heavy lightning attacks go through Reflect
- Ice staff with have defensive properties.

Ladies and Gentlemen The new Sorc meta for the next 3 months. If you'll excuse me I got a new mSorc to level up.

- Curse was unblockable before, they added an explosion at 12 seconds, most sorcs will keep recasting it at 3.5 like we do on live now. Waiting 12 seconds is actually a huge loss. nah it blows up at 3.5 and 8.5 secs not 12 secs
- Storm Atro was laughable before, it still is. Just stun the thing, it's not like it can move. it can CC break
- EOTS is used just as much if not more by nightblades than Sorcs. still used by sorcs tho right?
- Flame and shock staff have been behind every other weapon in the game forever, and it buffs all magicka classes that use them. yep are you happy now? Or is Zos still evil towards sorcs?
- Force pulse is a beam, when did you reflect radiant destruction last? radiant is a channled beam, force pulse is not, you can reflect lazer beams in real life right?
- How many reflectable stamina ultra are there again? none all are melee range
- Heavy lightning attacks are a channeled beam. yep and we will see a rise in Lightning staffs yet you will still QQ about wings

Ladies and gentlemen we have our first pub 13 "Nerf Sorc" whine post.

This thread will now go full bore potato.

Lol I didn't whine at all that's you dude just stating facts, and the fact the you got mad shows it. But what Am I saying you're the same guy who QQs about how UP his sorc is and how Stam builds are SOO OP.

When the patch goes live I will see you QQing about how your sorc is 'Free AP pinata' and DK is OP.

Yeah I think you misread the curse. It explodes after 3.5s, and again after an additional 8.5s.

Oh I see.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

- Curse Unblockable and Blows up twice
- Storm Atro gets 25% buff in dmg
- EOtS is still Strong
- Flame staff and Shock Staff get 8% dmg buffs
- pets get defense buffs
- Force pulse unreflectable
- Meteor still unreflectable
- Heavy lightning attacks go through Reflect
- Ice staff with have defensive properties.

Ladies and Gentlemen The new Sorc meta for the next 3 months. If you'll excuse me I got a new mSorc to level up.

Yawn.
Most of the things you have mentioned have nothing to do with Sorc in particular, but apply to all classes. All classes get the staff bonus and Eye of the storm, all classes can use force shock and meteor and ice staff.

Storm Atronach will remain weak even with this buff and daedric curse was unblockable before.
In my opinion, Sorc hasn't changed much, but finally received a liddle something in return for the nerfs of the last few years since 1.6

Waffennacht wrote: »

They made Atronach a choice (if even) sure he got buffed, but he'll still never see PvE play.

To be honest, whenever I look at sorc ults I get sad.

True.

Attro is a strict dueling ulti now becoming barely useable for open world (i still would not).
Negate is pretty good - if you have the group to back it up.
Overload is absolute cheese in 90% of the cases only used as utility.

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

A NB running 8x8x8? That explains why you underperform....youre losing ticks off of your twisting big time..a NB rotation is more complex than that....

Thank you for your wonderful and always forthcoming advice hedna. Like a guardian troll you watch over me, ever present to weigh in on my need to L2P and even my many personality defects. Well, at least this time you left my personality alone.

As for the twisting, I don't yet run it this update as I actually tested it with a nice macro with perfectly timed rotations back in the Ninglenele days and it was a single target dps loss with perfect rotation as the bar swap it required cost more dps than it gained. That perfectly timed rotation, I might add, is much harder to do in a real fight where you aren't running a macro, you have the off timed skill to deal with, lots of mechanics are happening, and you are standing in a stack with abilities going off making it hard to see your animations. Right now, I have my NB built very simply with 8 seconds cripple, 8 seconds wall, and relentless refreshed at 8 second intervals. This is very clean and so even I, with my very limited ability, can keep near perfect timings with it in the nastiest of fights. It is a less is more approach and I agree, it is sub optimal and it is getting long in the tooth. I do think that more of the problem is folks running cheat engine than the sub optimal nature of the build though. Few people are fearturbo, alcast, or vampireplague good and I think more are getting to similar numbers by cheating to catch those folks than perfecting the very difficult and complex timed rotations that they have.

I have not yet tested out new NB and sorc rotations yet on the pts but I expect that I will need to try to get reasonably good with a mess of a rotation on one class or another. Fortunately, I will have a dps dummy to determine and compare rotations on with macros and than to practice freehand with the rotation chosen. ZOS may be saying they are trying to make rotations simpler but the actual trend is tword rotations with more DOT's at odd timings making rotations far more complex and extended with bar swaps several times though the extent of a single rotation and with different numbers of applications for different skills throughout a single rotation. With sorc set up as it is, with the 8, 10, 12, mess and a proc skill, I think the NB one will be a little simpler though have less ceiling dps wise. It may actually not matter as I am working against the dual factors of greater rotation complexity making a bigger difference and this separating better players from me and those running cheat engine scaling there own results to that of those who can handle that greater complexity better. Cheaters are simply not going to put in numbers that quite catch them up to the greats because it would be too suspicious. It is a dual problem and I do work on the forums as best I can to detail it.

As always, thank you for your help. I will take note of your continued opinion against a KISS approach to dps rotations. You may take note of my thoughts that a well perfected KISS rotation would continue to be quite competitive in raid groups, as it was pre-cheat engine if it was not for ZOS complete lack of interest in devoting any resources to the maintenance of fair play that has been stoked by resistance on the part of their raiding counsel to admit that any problem even exists. I do not think the KISS strategy would get me to fearturbo, alcast, or vampireplague numbers, but it did get me to better than average dps on #1 NA leaderboard groups before cheat engine and it still gets me a lot further than you think even today in a slanted competitive environment. Being close to perfect in a sub-optimal rotation even in the nastiest of fights is not as bad a theory craft as you think. Often, it trades 5% potential dps for 20% in practice. Sometimes, it still even makes the top 50% of dps in some of the best raid groups provided the fight is hard, with lots of mechanics, and is one where being ranged has a little edge.

Ok man...once and for all Twising Path is significant DPS gain on live! Even before buffs...the rotation os not complex its simple as can be. This rotation will give you 100% uptime on ele blockade, cripple, merciless and twisting path:
1. Merciless>twisting>Bar swap>
2. Blockade>weave>cripple>weave>Force Pulse x 5 with weaves>Blockade>weave>cripple>weave>bar swap
3. Twisting>weave>Merciless>weave>Merciless>bar swap cancel
4. Force Pulse x 2 with weaves>Blockade>weave>cripple>weave>Force Pulse x 3
5. Rinse and repeat.

This rotation ensures 100% uptime on all DoTs

Also it is truly sad that you have to make up cheating accusations when faced with the fact that you simply have a long way ro go to playing the class well.

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok man...once and for all Twising Path is significant DPS gain on live! Even before buffs...the rotation os not complex its simple as can be. This rotation will give you 100% uptime on ele blockade, cripple, merciless and twisting path:
1. Merciless>twisting>Bar swap>
2. Blockade>weave>cripple>weave>Force Pulse x 5 with weaves>Blockade>weave>cripple>weave>bar swap
3. Twisting>weave>Merciless>weave>Merciless>bar swap cancel
4. Force Pulse x 2 with weaves>Blockade>weave>cripple>weave>Force Pulse x 3
5. Rinse and repeat.

This rotation ensures 100% uptime on all DoTs

Also it is truly sad that you have to make up cheating accusations when faced with the fact that you simply have a long way ro go to playing the class well.

Great advice, I honestly doubt I will catch my dps on a much simper rotation in hard fights with that fairly complex one but it certainly would be higher dps after the patch if I could prefect it.

I have some advice for you as well. You should shut your players up before instead of during runs where you pull in pugs. You also may want to tell them to "dial back" the meteors before and not during the run. You catch my drift bra. People who live in glass houses and all.

Oh, and yea, I am going to keep harping on the cheat engine thing and if I were you I would probably try to keep discrediting me.

Lol not sure I get what your advice means, but I do sincerely hope that you will stop making up wild fantasies about people's performance to cover up a lack of your own.

Double