@Jaronking

Talk about a cry baby if 20 incap ruins your play your a nub. You will now have to wait an extra 1-3 seconds to incap on an ability that hits like a truck instead of getting back to back incap ults. It's approaching balance if anything.

The Incap change won't change a thing for my gank blade.

-20 ultimate for potion
-20 ultimate for kill
-28 ultimate for light/heavy attack over 8 seconds
-2 ultimate for siphoning ability use

If used correctly, you can maintain 70 ultimate per kill anyways. I'm half betting this is why we see 70 ultimate instead of something like 75/80.

Good change. Not a big deal for gankers but does tone down back to back Incap's in small time frames.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

No stamina player in their right mind will use Incap (the stamina morph) over Soul Harvest (the Magicka morph) you'll be losing out on a lot of damage, and pressure.

First you increase the cost of Dawnbreaker, now Incap. I guess it's only an issue if stamina uses it eh? Is this why nothing can be dodged, but everything can be shielded?

You're forgetting that a successful dodge spares you from everything in that attack, while shields have to eat it. If I dodge your Incap Strike, you don't apply Major Defile or deal increased damage to me. If I shield your Incap, you still apply Major Defile and the increased damage. You're also thinking in terms of how many ultimates you'll get to use in the span of a minute, when stam NB's thing has always been about how much damage you can do in the span of a second. The fact that Incap still does 20-25% more damage than Soul Harvest will mean stam NBs will keep using it.

20-25% damage for something that costs 40% more? Yeah, stamblades that are bad at math will still use it.

20-25% damage for a class whose entire thing is killing you in the span of a few seconds. Would you rather kill your target the first time around with Incap Strike, or spend a minute trying to kill them with Soul Harvest?

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

This increased micromanagement on Grim Focus is key to how mageblade plays in PvP, though. Please don't change it. Make tweaks elsewhere in the class to appease the PvEers, please.

Side note, thank you greatly for the Path buffs. Excellent ability in concept in need of a little higher tuning, loving that attention.

I'll be honest, Kena, I have no clue why you love the clunky Grim Focus so much. It's damage is comparable with Crystal Fragments, yet it procs nowhere near as often, has to be refreshed after every proc, and has a cast time. I seriously wouldn't say the current Grim Focus is key to how mageblade plays, it's just a clunkier version of Crystal Fragments. If anything defined mageblade's playstyle, it would be something entirely unique to the class like Shadow Image or Cloak.

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

This increased micromanagement on Grim Focus is key to how mageblade plays in PvP, though. Please don't change it. Make tweaks elsewhere in the class to appease the PvEers, please.

Side note, thank you greatly for the Path buffs. Excellent ability in concept in need of a little higher tuning, loving that attention.

I'll be honest, Kena, I have no clue why you love the clunky Grim Focus so much. It's damage is comparable with Crystal Fragments, yet it procs nowhere near as often, has to be refreshed after every proc, and has a cast time. I seriously wouldn't say the current Grim Focus is key to how mageblade plays, it's just a clunkier version of Crystal Fragments. If anything defined mageblade's playstyle, it would be something entirely unique to the class like Shadow Image or Cloak.

I honestly am scared of the thought of a magblade thats capable of Grim Focus being able to recast after activating the Spectral bow. Spectral bow does a ton of damage and to be as reliable and frequent compared to frags would be overkill in my opinion.

Any changes to this ability would need to be really delicate because its in a very good spot.

If i could change one thing about this ability it would be its duration. 15 seconds is a very short time to work with. A step in the right direction would be to increase its duration so you can hold onto your spectral bow and try to set up plays with it rather then feeling pressured to get a combo out because of the small duration.

I have the same thoughts about Summon Image. 15 seconds may seem like a long time but in combat its really not.

Edited to remove excessive use of "imo".

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

This increased micromanagement on Grim Focus is key to how mageblade plays in PvP, though. Please don't change it. Make tweaks elsewhere in the class to appease the PvEers, please.

Side note, thank you greatly for the Path buffs. Excellent ability in concept in need of a little higher tuning, loving that attention.

I'll be honest, Kena, I have no clue why you love the clunky Grim Focus so much. It's damage is comparable with Crystal Fragments, yet it procs nowhere near as often, has to be refreshed after every proc, and has a cast time. I seriously wouldn't say the current Grim Focus is key to how mageblade plays, it's just a clunkier version of Crystal Fragments. If anything defined mageblade's playstyle, it would be something entirely unique to the class like Shadow Image or Cloak.

Not exactly. Assassin's Will is the key for burst damage. Mine crits for about 12-13k on most of my opponents. However, we can definitely agree on the clunkiness of it. Shadow Image and Cloak afford nothing unless your idea of a good fight is running away.

The ability to time Assassin's Will procs after someone stands up from a dodge roll or while CC'd is crucial. If they ever change it so that it fires off automatically, it will completely destroy a key element of magblade burst potential (although it would simplify pve rotations, but there are better ways to do that).

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

This increased micromanagement on Grim Focus is key to how mageblade plays in PvP, though. Please don't change it. Make tweaks elsewhere in the class to appease the PvEers, please.

Side note, thank you greatly for the Path buffs. Excellent ability in concept in need of a little higher tuning, loving that attention.

I'll be honest, Kena, I have no clue why you love the clunky Grim Focus so much. It's damage is comparable with Crystal Fragments, yet it procs nowhere near as often, has to be refreshed after every proc, and has a cast time. I seriously wouldn't say the current Grim Focus is key to how mageblade plays, it's just a clunkier version of Crystal Fragments. If anything defined mageblade's playstyle, it would be something entirely unique to the class like Shadow Image or Cloak.

I honestly am scared of the thought of a magblade thats capable of Grim Focus being able to recast after activating the Spectral bow. Spectral bow does a ton of damage and to be as reliable and frequent compared to frags would be overkill in my opinion.

Any changes to this ability would need to be really delicate because in my opinion its in a very good spot.

If i could change one thing about this ability it would be its duration. 15 seconds in my opinion if a very short time to work with. A step in the right direction would be to increase its duration so you can hold onto your spectral bow and try to set up plays with it rather then feeling pressured to get a combo out because of the small duration.

It is neither as reliable nor as frequent as Frags, but it is comparable or higher in damage. Frags can proc from any number of self-buffs (like Aegis, Surge, Boundless, Streak, Dark Exchange, and the list goes on and on and on...) but Assassin's Will requires 4 light attacks, which are constantly dodged by Major Evasion and dodge rolling.

Furthermore, it has to be re-cast every time we fire the proc which means we lose dps potential in the middle of our burst sequence, not after. If we choose not to re-cast it immediately, we lose 8% damage. If we choose to re-cast immediately, we halt our burst sequence and allow the enemy to shield or heal. It has to be cast at least twice as often as Rally; the full duration of the buff is literally never realized. It has no sustain component, affords no CC. It is little more than a single large chunk of damage, assuming it connects.

Like I said above though, if they ever make it automatically cast the proc, it will ruin magblade burst. If it's adjusted, it should be automatically reapplied, rather than automatically cast. The only drawback to this is that we can effectively only cast it once at the start of combat, and so long as we fire the proc we keep the buff. Honestly I see no issue with this, because everything a NB does is so easy to dodge or purge anyway that this proc is really the only thing any other class has to worry about.

Also directed more specifically at you, rather than this concept I quoted; I think your points on making Incap undodgeable are logical and rational. Indeed it will be used less frequently. My issue with Incap was never actually the damage or the stun, it's the Major Defile. If they removed the Major Defile (or made it Minor, even) then Incap would be easier to manage for other classes without driving the skill into the ground. Personally, I don't even think it's that difficult to manage by just blocking it, and that's even with Major Defile on me. Point is, the stun doesn't bother me, blocking it is a viable option, and the damage isn't so massive that one can't recover. Undodgeable is fine so long as our own healing is not driven to floor on top of it all.

Can't fix Grim Focus for update 13?? WHYYYYYYYYY!!!!!??

So lame. Wait another 4 months for a fix.. Freaking annoying.

Armitas wrote: »

Teeny tiny casual PvE NB here. So put this on the to-do list below what ever these people have requested

It would be really nice if the spectral bow of grim focus reset the buff as well so you didn't have to press it twice and break the flow of your damage rotation. Despite it not showing up on many top dps builds I really like the concept of building up to this.

Yup, I think this is the fix.

Jaronking wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback and discussions in this thread. We have a couple updates/changes coming for the next PTS build that we’d like to share:

• Incapacitating Strike – Increased the cost of this ultimate to 70 from 50.
• Path of Darkness (and morphs) – Increased the base ability damage by 25%
• Twisting Path – Increased the damage of this morph by 7% over the base ability. (Total damage increase of 32% over live)

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

@ZOS_RichLambert If your going to increase the cost of incap you should increase the cost to composite or at least make it undodgeable.

OMG no. Just stop making everything undodgeable. The nerf is OK I think.

When every attack misses making some abilities need to hit through dodge at least ultimate should.

Paraflex wrote: »

@Jaronking

Tell that to incap strike.

pieratsos wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

What a bunch of crybabies, increase cost of incap by 20 is not affecting the stamblade in anyway, pve or pvp. Is the class with the highest ulti generation of the game.

It's a dps loss in pve, where incap is used during execute phase of boss fights. Actually increased damage to target is the real kicker... less up-time on that higher damage means reduced execute damage. Execute phase is where stamblade dps climaxes. The result is just stamblades being pushed further up the dps totem pole. Yet another pvp nerf that adversely impacts pve...

Also stamblades don't have anwhere near the ult generation of a magblade. Stamblades can still utilize the Catalyst passive once every 45 seconds, and aside from that they are on-par with every other class with respect to ult generation.

Use soul harvest?

Is that a serious question???

You said the increased dmg is the main reason why is used. So whats stopping u from using soul harvest that still costs 50 ult and have the same uptime as before?

It may be that using Soul Harvest is an option some will choose to take. I do believe that the damage increase is more valuable. But my point initially was that it's going to reduce dps in pve. It might be by a small margin. It could probably be handled in a more appropriate way, and it seems like every time they want to "fix" something in pvp, pve suffers for it.

usmcjdking wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Teeny tiny casual PvE NB here. So put this on the to-do list below what ever these people have requested

It would be really nice if the spectral bow of grim focus reset the buff as well so you didn't have to press it twice and break the flow of your damage rotation. Despite it not showing up on many top dps builds I really like the concept of building up to this.

Yup, I think this is the fix.

Yup currently on the PTS its a dps loss to run it (in PvE) if your healer is doing a good job on Combat Prayer...

I am in favor of a revision on grimfocus and it's morph as soon as possible. The countless dodged attacks requires more light attack attempts than normal to proc the ability, and with shuffle it makes it worse. Enabling the ability for proc takes away from skill damage rotation, yet crystal frags for sorcs generates an instant cast with no manual input other than to fire away. Incaps nerf by increase seemed reasonable with the amount of damage it deals, but it can be dodged, where is the return on that? I've mained a stamina nightblade since launch and have adapted to the changes. However the class isn't up to par with other classes in my opinion. Signature abilities and capabilities to classes are evident in PvP, but not for the assassin class.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

@Jaronking

Talk about a cry baby if 20 incap ruins your play your a nub. You will now have to wait an extra 1-3 seconds to incap on an ability that hits like a truck instead of getting back to back incap ults. It's approaching balance if anything.

What he proposes isn't crazy or anything. It would be a step in the right direction in my opinion to make ALL ultimate's not dodge-able.

One reason why the Bow Ultimate right now is terrible is because you can just dodge the whole thing.

They did just make Leap undodgeable. Why not Incap? Its 70 ultimate now. For a single target ultimate that is now not as spammed it should be able to guarantee a hit.


Edit: Before anyone yells at me, i understand Leap is now undodgeable because it is indeed AoE but why is Soul Assault not dodge-able compared to the Bow ultimate? Its not really fair imo. Making all ultimate s undodgeable just adds consistency and makes ultimates always worth utilizing.

Also the base skill Death Stroke would become undodgeable so it would be a step in the right direction for magblades as well.

Making Incap undodgeable is crazy. It would just push the meta further into burst and stacking as much damage as possible. It would also remove counterplay. Even if you block it, you would still get the debuffs. Fighting a heavy armor nightblade who just stacks everything into damage is already disgusting, just don't make this skill undodgeable. I never asked for ultis not being dodgeable and I don't like them to be undodgeable but making Incap undodgeable would be so terrible.

Are you trying to justify Incap being dodge-able because we have an unhealthy meta? Its not Incap's fault every stamina class in pvp is a Red Guard in Heavy Black Rose with Food Buffs and 0 sustain.

Incap being undodgeable is not an issue.

Next patch all those heavy users are actually going to be taking a huge hit to their sustain and damage with the proc set nerfs and unchained nerf. At least they are getting toned down a little bit. Hopefully PTS3 balances heavy armor and makes building with FOOD buffs harder to sustain if you ignore building for sustain at all in your build.

You need to look at the bigger picture. All Ultimate's are becoming undodgeable. It would make sense for all ultimate's to be undodgeable for consistency. The last problem with ultimate's after this change is the fact one ultimate is still not block-able (Destro Ult).


If you want to talk about counter-play why don't you complain about Animation Canceling? You could actually react to a Dawnbreaker/Incap/Soul Tether and block if you could see it's animation.