PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements

Rex-Umbra

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback and discussions in this thread. We have a couple updates/changes coming for the next PTS build that we’d like to share:

• Incapacitating Strike – Increased the cost of this ultimate to 70 from 50.
• Path of Darkness (and morphs) – Increased the base ability damage by 25%
• Twisting Path – Increased the damage of this morph by 7% over the base ability. (Total damage increase of 32% over live)

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

Revert strife nerf or at least tone it down.

hedna123b14_ESO

Preyfar wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] Path of Darkness (and morphs) – Increased the base ability damage by 25%

This is definitely an interesting buff, and may make Path a nice alternative to Wall of Elements now (FINALLY!).

Path should never be an alternative to Wall of Elements, just as Liquid lightnig is never an alternative to it. The skill is complementary.

Strider_Roshin

Brrrofski wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback and discussions in this thread. We have a couple updates/changes coming for the next PTS build that we’d like to share:

• Incapacitating Strike – Increased the cost of this ultimate to 70 from 50.
• Path of Darkness (and morphs) – Increased the base ability damage by 25%
• Twisting Path – Increased the damage of this morph by 7% over the base ability. (Total damage increase of 32% over live)

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

Stamblades are underperforming in PvE, and PvP (unless we're talking about ganking), so you nerf them. Makes sense.

Okay so let me start by saying that increasing the cost to 62 would have been appropriate; 70 is slightly too much. You should also increase the 20% damage increase, and major defile duration by the appropriate amount (doubling the length for 70 cost, 4 additional seconds for 62 cost).

Also are you not aware that by nerfing ONLY Incap, you have killed that move? Why would I use Incap every 24 seconds when I could use Soul Harvest every 17 seconds? By choosing the stamina morph, I am now suffering a major damage loss.

Come on man, stam nightbalde is incredibly strong in PvP. I don't run a gank build and can 1vX easier than on anything other class. Outside of Maelstrom, do stamblades use incap in PvE?

They do actually. You keep flawless on your front bar, and you active Incap on your back bar.

Seraphayel

Please buff the damage on many of our skills. I want to be a Magicka Nightblade but so many skills are just a let down. What's the point of Agony? Of Summon Shade?

xblackroxe

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback and discussions in this thread. We have a couple updates/changes coming for the next PTS build that we’d like to share:

• Incapacitating Strike – Increased the cost of this ultimate to 70 from 50.
• Path of Darkness (and morphs) – Increased the base ability damage by 25%
• Twisting Path – Increased the damage of this morph by 7% over the base ability. (Total damage increase of 32% over live)

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

Stamblades are underperforming in PvE, and PvP (unless we're talking about ganking), so you nerf them. Makes sense.

Okay so let me start by saying that increasing the cost to 62 would have been appropriate; 70 is slightly too much. You should also increase the 20% damage increase, and major defile duration by the appropriate amount (doubling the length for 70 cost, 4 additional seconds for 62 cost).

Also are you not aware that by nerfing ONLY Incap, you have killed that move? Why would I use Incap every 24 seconds when I could use Soul Harvest every 17 seconds? By choosing the stamina morph, I am now suffering a major damage loss.

Come on man, stam nightbalde is incredibly strong in PvP. I don't run a gank build and can 1vX easier than on anything other class. Outside of Maelstrom, do stamblades use incap in PvE?

They do actually. You keep flawless on your front bar, and you active Incap on your back bar.

Rend is a much better ulti and bow ult is also better for vma.

Strider_Roshin

No stamina player in their right mind will use Incap (the stamina morph) over Soul Harvest (the Magicka morph) you'll be losing out on a lot of damage, and pressure.

First you increase the cost of Dawnbreaker, now Incap. I guess it's only an issue if stamina uses it eh? Is this why nothing can be dodged, but everything can be shielded?

boundsy88

If u were actually gonna use incap in VMA u would be better off with soul harvest even on stam. that ult return helps way more than incap extra damage does

arkansas_ESO

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

No stamina player in their right mind will use Incap (the stamina morph) over Soul Harvest (the Magicka morph) you'll be losing out on a lot of damage, and pressure.

First you increase the cost of Dawnbreaker, now Incap. I guess it's only an issue if stamina uses it eh? Is this why nothing can be dodged, but everything can be shielded?

You're forgetting that a successful dodge spares you from everything in that attack, while shields have to eat it. If I dodge your Incap Strike, you don't apply Major Defile or deal increased damage to me. If I shield your Incap, you still apply Major Defile and the increased damage. You're also thinking in terms of how many ultimates you'll get to use in the span of a minute, when stam NB's thing has always been about how much damage you can do in the span of a second. The fact that Incap still does 20-25% more damage than Soul Harvest will mean stam NBs will keep using it.

OtarTheMad

Seraphayel wrote: »

Please buff the damage on many of our skills. I want to be a Magicka Nightblade but so many skills are just a let down. What's the point of Agony? Of Summon Shade?

Bad Joke Alert: They call it Agony because players who slot it are always in agony from dying too much.

Summon Shade is probably the most fun ability a magblade can have (in PvP). Unless they recently nerfed it Summon Shade was used by me to Ambush down from a keep wall and basically nuke the player on siege and then shade back up to the safe keep wall... was so fun.

mr_wazzabi

Looks like my stamblade will go back to soul harvest now for ult generation in pve. I don't even use incap in pvp as too many ppl dodge it.

Dawnbreaker is much more reliable.

Strider_Roshin

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

No stamina player in their right mind will use Incap (the stamina morph) over Soul Harvest (the Magicka morph) you'll be losing out on a lot of damage, and pressure.

First you increase the cost of Dawnbreaker, now Incap. I guess it's only an issue if stamina uses it eh? Is this why nothing can be dodged, but everything can be shielded?

You're forgetting that a successful dodge spares you from everything in that attack, while shields have to eat it. If I dodge your Incap Strike, you don't apply Major Defile or deal increased damage to me. If I shield your Incap, you still apply Major Defile and the increased damage. You're also thinking in terms of how many ultimates you'll get to use in the span of a minute, when stam NB's thing has always been about how much damage you can do in the span of a second. The fact that Incap still does 20-25% more damage than Soul Harvest will mean stam NBs will keep using it.

20-25% damage for something that costs 40% more? Yeah, stamblades that are bad at math will still use it.

NightbladeMechanics

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

This increased micromanagement on Grim Focus is key to how mageblade plays in PvP, though. Please don't change it. Make tweaks elsewhere in the class to appease the PvEers, please.

Side note, thank you greatly for the Path buffs. Excellent ability in concept in need of a little higher tuning, loving that attention.

zyk

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

This increased micromanagement on Grim Focus is key to how mageblade plays in PvP, though. Please don't change it. Make tweaks elsewhere in the class to appease the PvEers, please.

I agree. Please do not trivialize grim focus.

mr_wazzabi

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

This increased micromanagement on Grim Focus is key to how mageblade plays in PvP, though. Please don't change it. Make tweaks elsewhere in the class to appease the PvEers, please.

Side note, thank you greatly for the Path buffs. Excellent ability in concept in need of a little higher tuning, loving that attention.

Sorcs have crystal frags that proc easily. This upcoming change would bring us more in line with sorcs. I know you enjoy a fight with your hands tied behind your back, but most other mageblades out there don't

Silver_Strider

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback and discussions in this thread. We have a couple updates/changes coming for the next PTS build that we’d like to share:

• Incapacitating Strike – Increased the cost of this ultimate to 70 from 50.
• Path of Darkness (and morphs) – Increased the base ability damage by 25%
• Twisting Path – Increased the damage of this morph by 7% over the base ability. (Total damage increase of 32% over live)

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

There's a nerf in there somewhere, I just know it.
I'm willing to bet my tail that Twisting Path will no longer be able to proc sets like Scathing Mage anymore after this change.

Father_X_Zombie

The incap change is very welcome

Jaronking

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback and discussions in this thread. We have a couple updates/changes coming for the next PTS build that we’d like to share:

• Incapacitating Strike – Increased the cost of this ultimate to 70 from 50.
• Path of Darkness (and morphs) – Increased the base ability damage by 25%
• Twisting Path – Increased the damage of this morph by 7% over the base ability. (Total damage increase of 32% over live)

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

@ZOS_RichLambert If your going to increase the cost of incap you should increase the cost to composite or at least make it undodgeable.

Jaronking

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

The incap change is very welcome

Get out of here sorc.

xblackroxe

Jaronking wrote: »

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

The incap change is very welcome

Get out of here sorc.

It is a good change.

Akimbro

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback and discussions in this thread. We have a couple updates/changes coming for the next PTS build that we’d like to share:

• Incapacitating Strike – Increased the cost of this ultimate to 70 from 50.
• Path of Darkness (and morphs) – Increased the base ability damage by 25%
• Twisting Path – Increased the damage of this morph by 7% over the base ability. (Total damage increase of 32% over live)

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

Incap - Fair change as the ability was too strong in PVP. Won't affect PVE too much.

Path - Great change. This is something people have been asking for for a long time, along with a redesign of grim focus. It'll be interesting to see the numbers, but NB's may finally have a class ground aoe skill up to scale with other classes now.

Grim Focus - It's a shame that we won't see any changes for U13 because people have been asking for a redesign (auto-reproc without recasting) on this skill for a while. Comparing to sorc's frags that have a % proc, an auto-reproc every 4 light/heavy attacks for the duration of grim focus isn't an unreasonable demand. It would only grant you 1 or 2 additional spectral arrows without having to recast the skill.

Jaronking

xblackroxe wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

The incap change is very welcome

Get out of here sorc.

It is a good change.

It's really not if their going to increase the cost at least increase the damage slightly.A better change would be to make the stun work like before where it only stun people with more health then you.Instead of increasing the cost it probably be fine since I still bloodspawn in pvp so ill still have it up quickly their just better changes they could have made to balance this ultimate especially with how easily you can dodge it.

Arrchangell

So i guess stam nb in pve is just getting nerfs then, i wanted to believe something would change, but i guess not. I agree with these changes, and pvp part is also a nice step, but the pve is still getting a huge nerf compared to any other pve class.

ManDraKE

What a bunch of crybabies, increase cost of incap by 20 is not affecting the stamblade in anyway, pve or pvp. Is the class with the highest ulti generation of the game.

Jaronking

ManDraKE wrote: »

What a bunch of crybabies, increase cost of incap by 20 is not affecting the stamblade in anyway, pve or pvp. Is the class with the highest ulti generation of the game.

That's as a magblade stamblades only use 1 siphoning ability.The class has that doesn't mean we can use it.

Autolycus

ManDraKE wrote: »

What a bunch of crybabies, increase cost of incap by 20 is not affecting the stamblade in anyway, pve or pvp. Is the class with the highest ulti generation of the game.

It's a dps loss in pve, where incap is used during execute phase of boss fights. Actually increased damage to target is the real kicker... less up-time on that higher damage means reduced execute damage. Execute phase is where stamblade dps climaxes. The result is just stamblades being pushed further up the dps totem pole. Yet another pvp nerf that adversely impacts pve...

Also stamblades don't have anwhere near the ult generation of a magblade. Stamblades can still utilize the Catalyst passive once every 45 seconds, and aside from that they are on-par with every other class with respect to ult generation.

pieratsos

Autolycus wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

What a bunch of crybabies, increase cost of incap by 20 is not affecting the stamblade in anyway, pve or pvp. Is the class with the highest ulti generation of the game.

It's a dps loss in pve, where incap is used during execute phase of boss fights. Actually increased damage to target is the real kicker... less up-time on that higher damage means reduced execute damage. Execute phase is where stamblade dps climaxes. The result is just stamblades being pushed further up the dps totem pole. Yet another pvp nerf that adversely impacts pve...

Also stamblades don't have anwhere near the ult generation of a magblade. Stamblades can still utilize the Catalyst passive once every 45 seconds, and aside from that they are on-par with every other class with respect to ult generation.

Use soul harvest?

Ragnaroek93

Jaronking wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback and discussions in this thread. We have a couple updates/changes coming for the next PTS build that we’d like to share:

• Incapacitating Strike – Increased the cost of this ultimate to 70 from 50.
• Path of Darkness (and morphs) – Increased the base ability damage by 25%
• Twisting Path – Increased the damage of this morph by 7% over the base ability. (Total damage increase of 32% over live)

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

@ZOS_RichLambert If your going to increase the cost of incap you should increase the cost to composite or at least make it undodgeable.

OMG no. Just stop making everything undodgeable. The nerf is OK I think.

Gilvoth

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the feedback and discussions in this thread. We have a couple updates/changes coming for the next PTS build that we’d like to share:

• Incapacitating Strike – Increased the cost of this ultimate to 70 from 50.
• Path of Darkness (and morphs) – Increased the base ability damage by 25%
• Twisting Path – Increased the damage of this morph by 7% over the base ability. (Total damage increase of 32% over live)

As a note, we definitely hear your feedback on Grim Focus and agree it requires more micromanagement than most other abilities. We are looking into solutions, but we do not expect to get changes in for Update 13.

i dont agree with the incap increase at all.
i hate it.
no call for it and is totally unnecessary!

PS4_ZeColmeia

I agree with most of the feedback here: The key to mageblade performance is Grim Focus and the fact you can't run it as a buff or that the cast doesn't auto recast once you launch the attack just ruins our rotation. The strife change doesn't make sense with no upgrade either on the heal and/or damage component.

My list of needed changes

• Grim Focus should cast the bow automatically instead of doing a 4th hit, or automatically recast we bow is manually cast
• Teleport Strike should proc stygian and stealth buffs
• PoD needs its duration extended to make running it off bar more realistic
• Shades should be able to be cast without a target
• Revert the strife change or increase the damage/Hot or make it give empower buff
• Have Hemmorage buff Spell critical as well

Paraflex

Seraphayel wrote: »

Please buff the damage on many of our skills. I want to be a Magicka Nightblade but so many skills are just a let down. What's the point of Agony? Of Summon Shade?

Clearly your not a PvP or Duel player to say this