PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements

Junipus · January 2017

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

Junipus wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Making Merciless recast on shooting the proc IS dumbing down the class.

In PvP, magicka nightblade is about maintaining tempo and control via simultaneous offense and defense. Our attacks heal us with heals over time. We attack with high sustained pressure, and when we get bursted, we can turn on the enemy with fear and our burst to make them go on the defensive momentarily. When they do that, they lose control, and our heals over time top us off.

Merciless is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to this play style. Failing to pressure or kill your opponent with Merciless and having to recast it momentarily releases pressure on your opponent, giving them a chance to heal some, recover, and potentially regain control.

And a magicka nightblade which isn't in control is DEAD. A magicka nightblade on full defense, spamming Annulment or Healing Ward, is DEAD.

If Merciless automatically refreshed when you shoot the arrow, the nightblade would no longer be under pressure to hit the arrow. He could afford to miss because, eh, he'll get another proc after 4 more light attacks. There's no release of pressure to recast the ability, no RISK inherent in the REWARD for landing the highest damage single target non-ult nuke in the game.

If Merciless refreshed on proc, ZOS would have to dramatically lower the damage of the ability or remove some of its telegraphed animations, which would dilute class diversity and muddy the magicka nightblade flavor.

Those of you who disagree speak from ignorance, or simply don't care about PvP mechanics or class diversity in general. If that's you, that's fine. But at least ask for dps increases elsewhere in the class's kit, or make suggestions keeping existing mechanics. Reworking Merciless is NOT the answer. It's just in conversation because it's easy and people like easy games.

EDIT: fyi for all you PvE-exclusives. Mageblade dps centers primarily around two factors: the number of Merciless Resolves that you proc in non-execute phase, and the number of Impales you land during execute. You must keep Cripple and other dots/aoes up as close to 100% as you can, but you work those around Merciless. If you were to make Merciless refresh on proc, you'd 100% have to reduce its damage because it just hits so hard, and at that point you might as well go play sorc.

@NightbladeMechanics
PvE wise Magicka NB is around 5k lesser DPS than sorcs, which is huge.
You have absolutely no idea what you are saying. Merciless Resolve procs only makes up 5-10% MagNB's total DPS. Impale is a mediocre execute. Please post a screen where you deal 30k+ sustained DPS, where you deal major damage with Merciless Resolve and Impale. From all your posts, it gives the impression that you are new and have no idea what you are saying.

Heres a 79K merciless proc from live, and a 40k unbuffed DPS parse on the target dummy from the PTS (impale is 11% of total damage).

If merciless reapplied it would be the most broken skill in the entire game. Also, Impale is totally fine as an execute. It does more single target than mages wrath and jesus beam was ridiculously broken so you can't compare it to that.

Also, I believe you are speaking to one of if not the best Nightblade PvPer in the entire game lol.

You just proved my point. Merciless Resolve factors for only 6.5% of total damage. I specifically mentioned that it does 5-10% of total DPS.

A skill that is used once every 20 seconds making up 6.5% of total damage is insane. As it stands, I press the merciless button twice every 20 seconds to get on average like 45K damage. Your change would make it so you would press the button once every 5 seconds to get the same damage. You'd be getting like 10k+ DPS from merciless procs alone.

Using your math, you'd get an extra 2.2k dps.

I'm also curious on how changing this to reduce the need to recast makes it a bad thing? Is it a niche thing where you don't want more magicka NBs in trials or end game content? Is it so you can keep your mantles as best NBs in game without worrying someone with more skill can level one and outshine you?

What do you mean using my math? If you only have to cast the skill once to shoot the bow, you will at the very least double the amount of damage it is doing per cast. It would basically just be a way more effective version of crystal fragments.

I don't care what other people play in trials. I personally play all classes/specs. Lots of people level magicka NB's - and then run to the forums to complain.

My other comment was aimed in general at the people on here fighting against the changes to merciless resolve given everyone else is trying to suggest ways to make it easier to use and the strange anathema is it for some people.

HuawaSepp · January 2017

Why not making Merciless Resolve a toggle?
And if activated it gets a chance of 25℅? to fire a spectral bow on light/heavy attacks.

That would solve dps problems in PVE and would be a funny change for PVP.

BohnT · January 2017

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Why not making Merciless Resolve a toggle?
And if activated it gets a chance of 25℅? to fire a spectral bow on light/heavy attacks.

That would solve dps problems in PVE and would be a funny change for PVP.

No please don't make this skill a toggle it rips your rotation so hard having to reapply a toggle everytime you switch bar or you are forced to put it on boths bars.
The 25% proc chance is something i really don't want to see too. This would literally make this skill a stupid proc set that grants you free burst without any downside.
Imo it would be fine if you could use the skill everytime you deal damage with 4 light attacks even more than once during its 20 sec duration

xblackroxe · January 2017

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Why not making Merciless Resolve a toggle?
And if activated it gets a chance of 25℅? to fire a spectral bow on light/heavy attacks.

That would solve dps problems in PVE and would be a funny change for PVP.

No toggles. They are annoying as hell and skillspots are precious. If they wanna change it then it should be possible to proc the bow as often as possible during the whole duration. But definitely no proc.

HuawaSepp · January 2017

BohnT wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Why not making Merciless Resolve a toggle?
And if activated it gets a chance of 25℅? to fire a spectral bow on light/heavy attacks.

That would solve dps problems in PVE and would be a funny change for PVP.

Imo it would be fine if you could use the skill everytime you deal damage with 4 light attacks even more than once during its 20 sec duration

You can not block or weapon swap or do a dodgeroll everytime you fire the bow.
Same with meteor.
Would be a very clunky rotation If you fire the bow so often.

Well then there would be the possibility to make it like enthropy.
You could fire the bow every second and get the buff if you hit the target.
But then the costs have to be raised.

leepalmer95 · January 2017

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Why not making Merciless Resolve a toggle?
And if activated it gets a chance of 25℅? to fire a spectral bow on light/heavy attacks.

That would solve dps problems in PVE and would be a funny change for PVP.

Just make it so when you fire the bow it auto recasts the skill.

It'll help both pve and pvp then.

Xvorg · January 2017

elantaura wrote: »

Since mageblade in particular have been nerfed to the point no one wants us - AGAIN

could we get double writ drops as Mageblade is clearly the intended crafting class. You have further killed healing and tanking and DPS was already low so I clearly that must be the intent?
Half price house compensation call it settlement from the nerf bat beating we've taken. this can accomodate for not being included in end game content it's been months now.
And special price on wall repair kits ( you can make the bop we know you like that) so we can get ap.i think wall repairing fits in well with our new crafting meta. We need ap so we are worth killing to other players going to and from forts repairing.

We only need these changes untill you locate who makes the special cookies that are on the table, that people were eating, when it seemed like a good idea. As this idea is as "balanced" as a fat kid on a seesaw and giving as much "improvement" as an overdose of laxatives to someone with a *** prolapse.

I used to de a DPS like you.. then I took a nerf hammer in the knee

tinythinker · January 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

So could we have Magblade class morphs also deal frost damage/add cold status effects?

kadar · January 2017

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Why not making Merciless Resolve a toggle?
And if activated it gets a chance of 25℅? to fire a spectral bow on light/heavy attacks.

That would solve dps problems in PVE and would be a funny change for PVP.

Yaaaa, no toggles are literally the worst thing ever.

HuawaSepp · January 2017

The_Outsider wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Why not making Merciless Resolve a toggle?
And if activated it gets a chance of 25℅? to fire a spectral bow on light/heavy attacks.

That would solve dps problems in PVE and would be a funny change for PVP.

Yaaaa, no toggles are literally the worst thing ever.

But wait, there is the useless twisting path we could use for merciless slot on the other bar

Elyu · January 2017

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Impale - longer execute range @ higher HP range

Refreshing path - more dmg and more Hot

Dbl take - give us the speed back and add immovable to it. <kicker> only Magic classes can use double take

Merc/relentless- I like how they changed relentless to a stam skill now but make both skills to a toggle so we don't have to keep refreshing it

Sap - cost less or increase dmg. I vote increase dmg!

Armor passives- should only be allowed to use that armor passive if u are wearing 5 pieces of that type of armor. 5 heavy with shuffle roflmfao!

ALL OF THESE PLS (although I vote reduce cost on sap, dmg is QUITE high enough in pvp already thank you, but in pve spamming it on mobs makes you really how much it costs)

If I had to choose one of these it would be merciless (either morph) auto-re-applying the buff after shooting spectral bow

@PeaNutShotz

Go and look at my comment on frost staff and mag nb synergy though as in my opinion it ties int this discussion here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311747/pts-feedback-thread-for-frost-staff-tanking#latest
Comment #163

cpuScientist · January 2017

No merciless toggle WTF guys. Toggles are literally the worst thing in this games combat system.

brandonv516 · January 2017

The shade change is a real bummer. Automatically puts you in combat and destroys the ability to run them in a stealth build.

ixie · January 2017

brandonv516 wrote: »

The shade change is a real bummer. Automatically puts you in combat and destroys the ability to run them in a stealth build.

I'm surprised more people haven't been complaining about this, it sucks, aren't we meant to be stealthy

brandonv516 · January 2017

tribbsb16_ESO wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

The shade change is a real bummer. Automatically puts you in combat and destroys the ability to run them in a stealth build.

I'm surprised more people haven't been complaining about this, it sucks, aren't we meant to be stealthy

It would seem that we are being encouraged to run a damage shield/caster build for all content. Then we can use Strife to melt our enem...wait a sec...

Jaronking · January 2017

brandonv516 wrote: »

The shade change is a real bummer. Automatically puts you in combat and destroys the ability to run them in a stealth build.

I didn't even know this was a thing @brandonv516 can you show where on the patch notes they changed pets?

thankyourat · January 2017

Jaronking wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

The shade change is a real bummer. Automatically puts you in combat and destroys the ability to run them in a stealth build.

I didn't even know this was a thing @brandonv516 can you show where on the patch notes they changed pets?

I think it's because most magblades aren't even using cloak, and most stamblades don't use this ability

Jaronking · January 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

The shade change is a real bummer. Automatically puts you in combat and destroys the ability to run them in a stealth build.

I didn't even know this was a thing @brandonv516 can you show where on the patch notes they changed pets?

I think it's because most magblades aren't even using cloak, and most stamblades don't use this ability

Cloak is so broken its stupid hopefully its fixed.I was planning on using the teleport morph on my magblade in pvp.

thankyourat · January 2017

Jaronking wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

The shade change is a real bummer. Automatically puts you in combat and destroys the ability to run them in a stealth build.

I didn't even know this was a thing @brandonv516 can you show where on the patch notes they changed pets?

I think it's because most magblades aren't even using cloak, and most stamblades don't use this ability

Cloak is so broken its stupid hopefully its fixed.I was planning on using the teleport morph on my magblade in pvp.

Yes I haven't really used it since the start of dark brotherhood. It's so bad and even if you get it off you are still snared while invisible moving like a turtle. the teleport shade can be beast though. Especially if you are fighting in a house or a very rocky area

pcar944 · January 2017

mist form > shade

almost

thankyourat · January 2017

pcar944 wrote: »

mist form > shade

almost

I hate mist form I found it only to be good to save stamina and get out of meteors. But I've found for solo play for it to not be effective in most cases. It takes away my healing and my magicka recovery and then it doesn't even work because everyone spams gap closers. I always give it a try and then I end up taking it off my bar in frustration. I've found shade to be more useful in more situations. Mist form is kind of OK for small group play though because all the pressure isn't on you. Just my opinion

brandonv516 · January 2017

Jaronking wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

The shade change is a real bummer. Automatically puts you in combat and destroys the ability to run them in a stealth build.

I didn't even know this was a thing @brandonv516 can you show where on the patch notes they changed pets?

I'm referring to this:

Summon Shade: The shade summoned by this ability and its morphs now more closely match your racial appearance for Argonian and Khajiit player characters, and will now immediately aggro and attack your target if you cast this while you are out of combat.
Note that the ability activation still requires a valid target

So it puts you in combat and you lose the element of surprise.

kaithuzar · January 2017

Tell me more about how many merciless procs you get in pvp going against someone using shuffle
( and by the way regardless of shuffle being nerfed next patch, I see no mention of them fixing the major evasion exploit)
glhf

Glamdring · January 2017

brandonv516 wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

The shade change is a real bummer. Automatically puts you in combat and destroys the ability to run them in a stealth build.

I didn't even know this was a thing @brandonv516 can you show where on the patch notes they changed pets?

I'm referring to this:

Summon Shade: The shade summoned by this ability and its morphs now more closely match your racial appearance for Argonian and Khajiit player characters, and will now immediately aggro and attack your target if you cast this while you are out of combat.
Note that the ability activation still requires a valid target

So it puts you in combat and you lose the element of surprise.

That would be OP

zammo · January 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just make it so when you fire the bow it auto recasts the skill.

It'll help both pve and pvp then.

If anything has to be changed about it, this is the only suggestion that makes sense.

Domander · January 2017

I wish there was a general balance feedback thread.

More so than class changes, I think there needs to be some balancing of these over performing sets. Some of the under performing sets need adjusted as well.

Give players choices, right now it feels like there's a lot of cool set bonuses that don't get used because they aren't as powerful.

thankyourat · January 2017

zammo wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just make it so when you fire the bow it auto recasts the skill.

It'll help both pve and pvp then.

If anything has to be changed about it, this is the only suggestion that makes sense.

Would the auto recast make you do the animation again? If so I think that would be a very bad change because after I fire the bow I usually follow up with a ultimate or a execute. I would hate for the merciless animation to play again after the bow was fired.

Xvorg · January 2017

It seems lit staff is the way I'll go in the next patch. That minor vulnerability + the crit chance + cripple + Dampen + merc resolve + siphoning attacks + electric storm seem to be interesting.

Thaum 75, the rest spread around to elemental expert, crit dmg and staff mastery in the case of blue, magicka reduction and recovery for green, and shield + whatever in red.

So basically play your mageblade as a sorc

Silver_Strider · January 2017

Abandon hope all ye who enter here

New patch and no positive changes made to NB.

I give up. Farewell PvE land,
PvP Proc set gankblade Bomberman build, here I come.

Xvorg · January 2017

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Abandon hope all ye who enter here

New patch and no positive changes made to NB.

I give up. Farewell PvE land,
PvP Proc set gankblade Bomberman build, here I come.

As I mentioned in the mDK thread, mDK and Mageblade MUST use lit staff fo the AoE (and passive dot) dmg increase.

In the case of mageblade:

- Lotus fan
- VoB
- PoD
- Soul Tether
- Sap essence.

If you want to go through the bomber path, you can consider it, same if you want the DoT path (cripple, agony)