PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements

HuawaSepp · January 2017

xblackroxe wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Making Merciless Resolve proc after 4 weaves would be good for pve, but in pvp it means suicide while aiming at a mag dk.

Further the cost increase of Strife is just logical.
Force Shock was preffered for endgame pve, but with the nerfes to monster sets, molag kena would be a great choice again.
Cost increase reason 1
Then there is pvp. Strife was prefered over Force Shock all day long.
Cost increase reason 2 + Force Shock gets unreflectable
Now think about doing solo content without strife. You need to equip a healing staff to survive. So the only way to gimp mag nb is to nerf strife. Nerfing cripple for example will only be a dps loss and does not change anything for endgame pve.

Strife should be how Veiled Strike. Just something you use in a special situation, nothing for a fixed rotation.

Glad to see that Siphoning Strikes are not nerfed this patch. But don't get your hopes up for next patch.

At the moment a Sorc is the better Nightblade, in every aspect.

Why should the only class with 2 spammable dps skill be the one that has both of them only for "special situations" aka pure *** in trials and 1 being good (not strong just worth slotting) and one only for the passive on stam gankers?

With NB being on the low end of dps in pve this change makes 0 sense.

Yeah I just tried to find the reason of this change. It makes 0 sense for you, but what does ZOS think?
There are people complain about stam NB gankers. There are people complain about the weakest dps, useless mag NB for trials.
But instead of solving this "problems" i see further nerfes to a already dead class.
Now there are even addons which track you in stealth. Isn't this gamebreacking?

The only way i can see to repair this class, is a major dmg boost to both spamables.
Changes to shades, grim focus and cloak are necessary too.
If that did not happen: R.I.P NB

NightbladeMechanics · January 2017

I made this forum account to comment on this feedback thread. I speak as an experienced and knowledgeable long-time mageblade main well known on NA PC. I speak on behalf of practiced mageblades who want to keep the class challenging but competitive.

Strife cost increase will have mixed effects in PvP. For destro builds, build a little more sustain if you really need it, slot a destro ability, and use the 8% increased single target damage fire staff passive to compensate. Destro users will gravitate to fire staves or radically different play styles -- aoe for lightning, blocking for ice. Snb tanky builds will feel the difference, but they generally sustain really nicely anyway and cast the ability less. Healing builds and aggressive snb builds will have to be more careful with how often they cast if if they don't accommodate the cost increase with some more sustain, but those builds are not common. Overall, this change has a big number in it (38%), but it amounts to only a few hundred magicka. Careful play and slight build adaptions will prevail. Still a silly nerf. PvEers...eh, I don't really know or care about that anymore.

Relentless/Merciless is a fine change, whatever. Do NOT make the skill a toggle. The last thing we need is to lower the skill cap of this game further. If PvEers want more dps, add it in elsewhere in the kit. Keep Grim Focus as a unique skill -- you apply the buff, prime your charge, and have one shot...ONE...with which to nuke the [snip] out of your enemy. Make your shot count.

Yay cloak fix attempts.

Yay shade, tails op.

Yay soul shred, we never even used your synergy anyway.

Manifestation of Terror changes make a good attempt, but they don't go far enough. You're competing with the single best cc ability in the game for the morph. Make it count. Make the traps cc up to 6 people (can it go higher than the aoe cap?), and make them apply some nasty debuffs such as minor maim, minor penetration debuffs, and magickasteal, even if the hard cc isn't applied because of the target having cc immunity. A short snare is REQUIRED because this trap will be largely used for kiting, but don't make that a debuff. I recommend taking the snare off of Mass Hysteria and having this trap morph pop into a snaring and debuffing aoe so that it can be powerful but have counterplay. Let us create a NIGHTBLADE HOUSE on which to fight, layered with path and the occasional veil.

Path needs love. Refreshing is a small hot and dot. Would be nice to see that become worth actually putting effort into not standing on, or forcing the mageblade off of, in ways other than direct damage or healing buffs. Add a minor vulnerability debuff or minor protection buff to its effects. Let it give allies Major Expedition!! Twisting is slightly better damage but still meh (last statements apply to it too). Do NOT decrease the duration of path. Right now in 7 heavy, its duration about equals the duration of the Shadow Barrier resistance buffs that casting it grants. That's very useful in PvE and PvP.

Ok...that covers the current balance changes. Now for suggestions.

Veiled Strike needs to be an assassination ability, and blur should be a shadow ability. This is so that stamblades and melee mageblades do not perma-proc Shadow Barrier passive with their spammable for increased resistances. Make them work for it like ranged mageblades.

Incap needs to not bug out its cc all the time. That ability leaves me sliding on the ground 90% of the time if I break free very quickly.

Still looking for massive Soul Siphon buffs. #MakeMagebladeHealersGreat....for once.

Reduce its cost to 100 or less and make the Major Vitality buff that it grants last like 10 seconds. Also consider adding some effect so that it can function as a preemptive heal in PvP -- one casted when burst is incoming, not just to heal up burst that's already hit a group.

Still looking for Funnel Health to get that second ally hot back. Pipe dream? It's been nerfed 2 times since that hot was taken away, not counting the upcoming cost increase. C'mon.

Still looking for a minimum damage threshold on Agony before its cc breaks, such as Fossilize has. Right now, a single tick of any of your dots or ground aoes breaks the cc immediately.

Still looking for a rework on Debilitate (other morph of cripple). I'd like to see EITHER it made into a stamina dot that softens up a single target for the attack via vulnerability or minor penetration debuffs, OR keep it magicka and have it heal the caster for a % of damage dealt each tick. Very mageblade-blood-steal-y.

Still looking for a rework to Leeching Strikes.

Still looking for major Bolstering Darkness buffs and a group-oriented AOE synergy for BOTH morphs to rival Nova and Standard.

I'll probably have more thoughts later... This has been exhausting.

OdinForge · January 2017

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

My thoughts on Magicka NB for PTS and current One Tamriel Live. I played my Magicka NB a lot between 1.6 and One Tamriel, and I played him longest last night on PTS doing duels.

First impression
The change to the cost of strife is insignificant in application, and for such a high damaging ability it probably shouldn't be as cheap as it is. Builds relying on the super low cost of it will definitely be hurting. On PTS in duels I could no longer sustain my magicka in heavy seducer fighting the worst of the worst heavy stam proc builds, especially if fasalla was used. Builds I'd have no issue fighting against on the live server with my current setup, the biggest cost is shields and I could always rest easy knowing that my damage spam was cheap to not hurt my sustain.

I scrapped my heavy seducer and threw on some light armor, switched some of my CP around. I changed my mundus around, switched food buff to include regen, changed to dampen magicka for a bigger shield. Aside from a change in shield morph, I changed one other skill to help compensate for lower resistances in crazy fights. But my skill bar looks almost identical to what it is on live.

The end result is that I gained a lot more damage, increased my base regen (cost reduction is comparable) thus increasing my sustain. My shield-based defense increased while my resistance naturally lowered in LA, but casting less shield is nice on my resources. The cost increase to strife became irrelevant for many reasons, and I'm enjoying the extra damage I can do.

Magicka NB is mostly fine
Magicka NB is still perfectly fine for the most part in PvP when it comes to 1v1 situations. I'm sure open world performance will vary depending on build and circumstance, but no PTS testing will accurately determine that. I have no issues PvPing open world on live with my magnb either alone or in a duo or small group when heavily outnumbered.

By comparison stamplar feels extremely underwhelming compared to magnb in every way and more.

Swallow soul vs force pulse
Swallow soul on a destro staff is still in my eyes better than force pulse. The cost is still much less and the damage is very close, not to mention your healing increases with swallow soul, among other benefits. Force pulse can't be reflected anymore, but it was already easy to deal with wings as magnb.

Concealed weapon vs strife
Other little issues that I have with the class is that concealed weapon is pretty underwhelming compared to swallow soul. The cost of concealed weapon is still higher than strife, and limited in range with not many extra benefits.

Soul harvest is underwhelming
Soul harvest as an individual ultimate is underwhelming in application, especially when you can just save up ultimate for EoTS and get off a good burst combo. In most duels vs anyone magicka or stamina, I'm doing strong enough damage without my ultimate. Soul harvest just doesn't do enough damage, and you can cast merciless resolve and swallow soul during the run-time of EoTS for better damage.

The trap morph of fear is still inferior to mass hysteria
The trap morph of fear needs some serious creativity put into it, no reason to drop mass hysteria. Not much really needs to be said otherwise, it's just not good.

Mirage
This morph could use a little bit of a buff (not to evasion, but to the defense granted by the buff) to make it worth slotting over either the other morph or just another skill. Major evasion was nerfed by 5% which doesn't make a huge difference in application. Still worth using in a 1v1 scenario but pretty lackluster in open world pvp, at least from my builds perspective.

@OdinForge Have you tried open world PVP with light armor on live? I think we're running a similar build, and even when stacking max magicka I can't make a 5 light build work in open world. Even when stacking max magicka with something like Necropotence, my Dampen Magic can't take two or three people beating on it long enough for me to actually start damaging somebody. Heavy armor is much, much better in that aspect, though I will say I've had good results with light armor in duels (though this game isn't meant to be balanced around 1v1s.) If the cost increase of Strife forces mNBs to go with light armor, then I'd say that's a pretty harsh nerf to their overall performance in Cyro.

LA alone will just not work, you have to get a little creative with sets. There are 4 sets I'm testing on PTS, that I don't currently have on live because I stopped playing, that will make LA open world very viable. I have seen them in action though with my theorycrafter friends on live, and I know they make LA viable.

There are ways to make LA work, sets that help compensate for how squishy LA is. Most people just haven't caught on yet, but soon they will. As I said in an earlier post I don't necessarily agree with the cost increase, I just understand why they did it.

Xeniph · January 2017

Footfalls wrote: »

I see this is a 'now mag nb sucks more' thread, but thoughts about grim focus being changed to stam cost for NBs?

I don't like it cause I always have extra magicka on my stam NB so I can always reapply it, but I can see the reasoning that "it's a disease damage ability so it should cost stam"

My Stamina NB actually likes this change. Before I had 1 stam buff and 3 magicka buffs, to re-apply. With this change it takes a bit of pressure off my limited magicka pool and sorta balances my buffs by splitting them evenly.

cpuScientist · January 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I made this forum account to comment on this feedback thread. I speak as an experienced and knowledgeable long-time mageblade main well known on NA PC. I speak on behalf of practiced mageblades who want to keep the class challenging but competitive.

Strife cost increase will have mixed effects in PvP. For destro builds, build a little more sustain if you really need it, slot a destro ability, and use the 8% increased single target damage fire staff passive to compensate. Destro users will gravitate to fire staves or radically different play styles -- aoe for lightning, blocking for ice. Snb tanky builds will feel the difference, but they generally sustain really nicely anyway and cast the ability less. Healing builds and aggressive snb builds will have to be more careful with how often they cast if if they don't accommodate the cost increase with some more sustain, but those builds are not common. Overall, this change has a big number in it (38%), but it amounts to only a few hundred magicka. Careful play and slight build adaptions will prevail. Still a silly nerf. PvEers...eh, I don't really know or care about that anymore.

Relentless/Merciless is a fine change, whatever. Do NOT make the skill a toggle. The last thing we need is to lower the skill cap of this game further. If PvEers want more dps, add it in elsewhere in the kit. Keep Grim Focus as a unique skill -- you apply the buff, prime your charge, and have one shot...ONE...with which to nuke the [snip] out of your enemy. Make your shot count.

Yay cloak fix attempts.

Yay shade, tails op.

Yay soul shred, we never even used your synergy anyway.

Manifestation of Terror changes make a good attempt, but they don't go far enough. You're competing with the single best cc ability in the game for the morph. Make it count. Make the traps cc up to 6 people (can it go higher than the aoe cap?), and make them apply some nasty debuffs such as minor maim, minor penetration debuffs, and magickasteal, even if the hard cc isn't applied because of the target having cc immunity. A short snare is REQUIRED because this trap will be largely used for kiting, but don't make that a debuff. I recommend taking the snare off of Mass Hysteria and having this trap morph pop into a snaring and debuffing aoe so that it can be powerful but have counterplay. Let us create a NIGHTBLADE HOUSE on which to fight, layered with path and the occasional veil.

Path needs love. Refreshing is a small hot and dot. Would be nice to see that become worth actually putting effort into not standing on, or forcing the mageblade off of, in ways other than direct damage or healing buffs. Add a minor vulnerability debuff or minor protection buff to its effects. Let it give allies Major Expedition!! Twisting is slightly better damage but still meh (last statements apply to it too). Do NOT decrease the duration of path. Right now in 7 heavy, its duration about equals the duration of the Shadow Barrier resistance buffs that casting it grants. That's very useful in PvE and PvP.

Ok...that covers the current balance changes. Now for suggestions.

Veiled Strike needs to be an assassination ability, and blur should be a shadow ability. This is so that stamblades and melee mageblades do not perma-proc Shadow Barrier passive with their spammable for increased resistances. Make them work for it like ranged mageblades.

Incap needs to not bug out its cc all the time. That ability leaves me sliding on the ground 90% of the time if I break free very quickly.

Still looking for massive Soul Siphon buffs. #MakeMagebladeHealersGreat....for once. Reduce its cost to 100 or less and make the Major Vitality buff that it grants last like 10 seconds. Also consider adding some effect so that it can function as a preemptive heal in PvP -- one casted when burst is incoming, not just to heal up burst that's already hit a group.

Still looking for Funnel Health to get that second ally hot back. Pipe dream? It's been nerfed 2 times since that hot was taken away, not counting the upcoming cost increase. C'mon.

Still looking for a minimum damage threshold on Agony before its cc breaks, such as Fossilize has. Right now, a single tick of any of your dots or ground aoes breaks the cc immediately.

Still looking for a rework on Debilitate (other morph of cripple). I'd like to see EITHER it made into a stamina dot that softens up a single target for the attack via vulnerability or minor penetration debuffs, OR keep it magicka and have it heal the caster for a % of damage dealt each tick. Very mageblade-blood-steal-y.

Still looking for a rework to Leeching Strikes.

Still looking for major Bolstering Darkness buffs and a group-oriented AOE synergy for BOTH morphs to rival Nova and Standard.

I'll probably have more thoughts later... This has been exhausting.

Whew thank goodness someone well known is in here.....

Merciless needs to reapply on shot. This is a change that needs to happen for PvE. It kills rotation. Sorry if one less button click for you suddenly makes Nightblades into Templar. It's not being asked to turn into a toggle. It's being asked to be made into a simple reapplication on arrow. Still would be 1 ONE UNO SHOT TO NUKE.

cpuScientist · January 2017

susmitds wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

I see this is a 'now mag nb sucks more' thread, but thoughts about grim focus being changed to stam cost for NBs?

I don't like it cause I always have extra magicka on my stam NB so I can always reapply it, but I can see the reasoning that "it's a disease damage ability so it should cost stam"

It is the last nail in the coffin of melee magblade.

Sorry, I meant relentless focus. The stam morph of grim focus now costs stam instead of mag.

I know. Melee magblades used the stamina regen morph as the bow proc is unreliable to proc in melee combat and added stamina regen helped in dodging and general maneuver needed. But if it costs stamina, the regen becomes not worthwhile enough as stamina is an expensive resource for magicka builds.

Unless they also built into stam regen, that bonus rid nothing. So if they were putting stam regen on their jewelry or had armor with it or taking the serpent then this does absolutely nothing.

LZH · January 2017

Magicka NB is completely fine in PvE. It might fall slightly short of Magicka Sorc in terms of AoE but it can compete in single target. Here is parse I did while messing around on the PTS. I applied Ele drain myself, had someone else done it I think I could've broke 40k.

The buffs to the destruction staff passives (8% increased damage with single target skills) really helped magNB since its main DoT and spammable are both single-target. I managed 38.7K single target DPS here and with group buffs that would easily be 45K+.

Don't forget also that Sorcs took a pretty big hit to their sustain which was already bad, Templars took a pretty solid DPS hit with the nerf to jesus beam and swords not being significantly better than staff anymore, and MagDK while amazingly strong is the most limited class in terms of range.

susmitds · January 2017

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

Magicka NB is completely fine in PvE. It might fall slightly short of Magicka Sorc in terms of AoE but it can compete in single target. Here is parse I did while messing around on the PTS. I applied Ele drain myself, had someone else done it I think I could've broke 40k.

The buffs to the destruction staff passives (8% increased damage with single target skills) really helped magNB since its main DoT and spammable are both single-target. I managed 38.7K single target DPS here and with group buffs that would easily be 45K+.

Don't forget also that Sorcs took a pretty big hit to their sustain which was already bad, Templars took a pretty solid DPS hit with the nerf to jesus beam and swords not being significantly better than staff anymore, and MagDK while amazingly strong is the most limited class in terms of range.

Wut?

Sorcs are breaking 49k in PTS mostly selfbuffed.

LiquidPony · January 2017

In the spirit of my prior post citing class usage stats from http://esoleaderboards.com, I was browsing around the PTS forum and something else caught my eye:

PTS Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance Improvements: 186 replies, 6.1k views
PTS Feedback Thread for Templar Balance Improvements: 247 replies, 7.5k views
PTS Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance Improvements: 266 replies, 8.3k views
PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements: 156 replies, 4.6k views

Hardly anyone uses NBs in end-game PvE and apparently no one even cares enough to talk about it at this point (of those 4.6k views, 1,000 of them are probably mine as I've been refreshing the thread every 5 minutes hoping for a response from the man behind the curtain).

I wonder if the fix would be something as simple as a small tweak to the Hemorrhage passive. What if the second rank of the passive increased Critical Hit Damage by 15% (up from 10%, which would offset the Minor Force and Rearming Trap nerfs), and Minor Savagery was boosted from 657 to 1100 (3% to 5%).

That would increase NB single-target damage by a small but not insignificant amount and group utility with one relatively minor passive change.

Another possibility would be a tweak to Veil of Blades. That's one of the few really useful NB abilities in group PvE, with the key advantage being its long duration. My raid group loves having a NB anywhere we encounter Overchargers (vAA and vSO) so that we can drop a mitigation right in the middle of the pack and then stack and burn. However, it's not necessary as Templars can mitigate as well and are more generally useful to the group. Perhaps we could remove the DoT from Veil of Blades (which is useless in PvE) and replace it with a group buff.

ostrapz · January 2017

Sure people will disagree but stamblade is honestly not as strong as it used to be, though I wouldn't go far enough to say it's at the bottom.
The rise of impenetrable trait has brought down stamblade overall damage to a more level playing field with other classes. Considering alot of our boosts are crit based. Magdk complained about their noodle whips hitting 5k for the longest but unless your ganked a suprise attack generally hits the same, it's been a long time since 9k suprise attacks are a thing.

Proc sets have disguised the loss of dmg stamblades have taken( you will notice if you run no procs) and the fact that incap received a hefty buff has also overshadowed this. If you want to bring your 5k suprise attack to a 6-7k it requires a heavy empowerment or ambush which is reasonable imo considering it stops a Relentless spamming of the skill to get that kind of dmg. Problem with proc sets is you can reach 8-9k on SA without anyou weaving which no sPam Mable should consistently hit, proc sets need to be nerfed much harder imo

Incap was incredibly strong when originally buffed but you won't see incaps over 7-8k now unless you are ganked or do not block, dodge, or shield against the ambush-incap which is one of the most noticeable combos to people now. I think the ult should remain low cost ,75 tops, since it's always seemed to be intended as a part of a nb combo, i also think the stun should stay since the constant addition of cloak counters as well as its overall brokenness has left your only cc as fear, while good you only get so much fear. I think instead the extra damage should be taken away, though pve needs to be taken into account for that change

Cloak was nerfed to stop the complete removal of dots, while this change was fair despite the many cloak counters the followed removal of using vigor while in cloak has made nb incredibly squishy with weaker heals than almost every other class in game. I think either 1 of thone changed should be reverted or cloak should be given some form of heal function.

All that being said I think our damage should stay where it is, but here are the changes I think should happen

- stuns and extra damage should be removed from ganking ,we are good enough at ganking without it

- cloak should get some form of heal or revert one of cloak nerf

- power extraction should do increased damage or some buff, steel Tornado is just better, every stamblade has brutality with Rally already considering you need the heals

- some move, maybe Cripple should be giving a stam morph to give a dot or unique utility to stamblade

-keep Relentless focus as magicka cost, stamblades and mag blades want that morph to remain a stamina cost

I don't play mage blade but

- strife needs to keep its current cost, extra cost will have a large effect in extended fights

- double take should have a morph to remove snares, mage blades should have speed to cloak and be mobile, currently their mobility is useless because of snares

-make magicka morph of grim focus instant refresh to assist mage blade spectral use

susmitds · January 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

In the spirit of my prior post citing class usage stats from http://esoleaderboards.com, I was browsing around the PTS forum and something else caught my eye:
PTS Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance Improvements: 186 replies, 6.1k views

PTS Feedback Thread for Templar Balance Improvements: 247 replies, 7.5k views

PTS Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance Improvements: 266 replies, 8.3k views

PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements: 156 replies, 4.6k views

Hardly anyone uses NBs in end-game PvE and apparently no one even cares enough to talk about it at this point (of those 4.6k views, 1,000 of them are probably mine as I've been refreshing the thread every 5 minutes hoping for a response from the man behind the curtain).

I wonder if the fix would be something as simple as a small tweak to the Hemorrhage passive. What if the second rank of the passive increased Critical Hit Damage by 15% (up from 10%, which would offset the Minor Force and Rearming Trap nerfs), and Minor Savagery was boosted from 657 to 1100 (3% to 5%).

That would increase NB single-target damage by a small but not insignificant amount and group utility with one relatively minor passive change.

Another possibility would be a tweak to Veil of Blades. That's one of the few really useful NB abilities in group PvE, with the key advantage being its long duration. My raid group loves having a NB anywhere we encounter Overchargers (vAA and vSO) so that we can drop a mitigation right in the middle of the pack and then stack and burn. However, it's not necessary as Templars can mitigate as well and are more generally useful to the group. Perhaps we could remove the DoT from Veil of Blades (which is useless in PvE) and replace it with a group buff.

That lack of views is exactly what I was thinking.

VelociousLegend · January 2017

I still feel magblade DPS is subpar when comparing to other magic PvE builds in current patch (interested to see numbers for PTS testing of magic PvE DPS). And are lackluster in PvP as well. To be fair, I think magblade is right near center in terms of balancing, but the other classes are further from the mark making this class feel under-powered. The increase cost of strife does hurt; maybe slightly increase strife's damage to keep this NB class skill preferable over other skills outside the class line.

On the flip side, for stamblade, where is the incap strike nerf??? Increase the cost to 75 or 100. Or remove the stun. That ability does too much for a single skill for so little ultimate.

cpuScientist · January 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

In the spirit of my prior post citing class usage stats from http://esoleaderboards.com, I was browsing around the PTS forum and something else caught my eye:
PTS Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance Improvements: 186 replies, 6.1k views

PTS Feedback Thread for Templar Balance Improvements: 247 replies, 7.5k views

PTS Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance Improvements: 266 replies, 8.3k views

PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements: 156 replies, 4.6k views

Hardly anyone uses NBs in end-game PvE and apparently no one even cares enough to talk about it at this point (of those 4.6k views, 1,000 of them are probably mine as I've been refreshing the thread every 5 minutes hoping for a response from the man behind the curtain).

I wonder if the fix would be something as simple as a small tweak to the Hemorrhage passive. What if the second rank of the passive increased Critical Hit Damage by 15% (up from 10%, which would offset the Minor Force and Rearming Trap nerfs), and Minor Savagery was boosted from 657 to 1100 (3% to 5%).

That would increase NB single-target damage by a small but not insignificant amount and group utility with one relatively minor passive change.

Another possibility would be a tweak to Veil of Blades. That's one of the few really useful NB abilities in group PvE, with the key advantage being its long duration. My raid group loves having a NB anywhere we encounter Overchargers (vAA and vSO) so that we can drop a mitigation right in the middle of the pack and then stack and burn. However, it's not necessary as Templars can mitigate as well and are more generally useful to the group. Perhaps we could remove the DoT from Veil of Blades (which is useless in PvE) and replace it with a group buff.

Veil of blades remove the dot... I gotta disagree. It's not huge DPS, but it's a damaging tool. If the damage is insignificant boost it, if the range is insignificant boost that. It already provides a solid use. They could add a small healing component to it perhaps, or increase range. But this skill is fine. The damage also helps end those stacked fights quicker, taking the damage out would make it wholly weaker than nova, and even adding in some group buff would then make us veil monkeys with even lower DPS as our ultimate does no damage.

cpuScientist · January 2017

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

Magicka NB is completely fine in PvE. It might fall slightly short of Magicka Sorc in terms of AoE but it can compete in single target. Here is parse I did while messing around on the PTS. I applied Ele drain myself, had someone else done it I think I could've broke 40k.

The buffs to the destruction staff passives (8% increased damage with single target skills) really helped magNB since its main DoT and spammable are both single-target. I managed 38.7K single target DPS here and with group buffs that would easily be 45K+.

Don't forget also that Sorcs took a pretty big hit to their sustain which was already bad, Templars took a pretty solid DPS hit with the nerf to jesus beam and swords not being significantly better than staff anymore, and MagDK while amazingly strong is the most limited class in terms of range.

Those are fantastic numbers however do remember our minor beserk skews the DPS a bit. As while other classes can get this high and more, they also get combat prayer, so they benefit more from those group buffs.

A few questions, why illambris. It's barely pulling wright for you if you look at the percentage of damage it is giving you in both parses. Could you sustain Kena or is another 5 piece the answer?

LiquidPony · January 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

Veil of blades remove the dot... I gotta disagree. It's not huge DPS, but it's a damaging tool. If the damage is insignificant boost it, if the range is insignificant boost that. It already provides a solid use. They could add a small healing component to it perhaps, or increase range. But this skill is fine. The damage also helps end those stacked fights quicker, taking the damage out would make it wholly weaker than nova, and even adding in some group buff would then make us veil monkeys with even lower DPS as our ultimate does no damage.

I doubt most players have any idea Veil of Blades even has a DoT, honestly. The cost of the ult is so high (200!) that we don't drop it often enough for the DoT to have a significant effect. And it already has a healing component via the synergy. The primary reason my group prefers Veil is that it lasts nearly twice as long as Nova. And ultimately I don't care if changing Veil reduces our DPS as long is it means that groups start running NBs again. Additionally, I'm not sure a minor increase in our single-target DPS is going to get us back into raid groups because we don't provide significant group utility and have low survivability. Perhaps something more outside the box like modifying Dark Cloak to be useful for personal mitigation in group PvE.

I don't think that Veil needs to be changed as, like I said, I see it as one of the only active NB abilities actually worth using in group PvE. However, given the lack of NBs in end-game groups, something clearly needs to be changed.

Paneross · January 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

susmitds · January 2017

Paneross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the love of god, how many posts will you on this?

How will non-proc gankers function without it?

Why will a class be nerfed unbalanced proc sets?

LZH · January 2017

susmitds wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

Magicka NB is completely fine in PvE. It might fall slightly short of Magicka Sorc in terms of AoE but it can compete in single target. Here is parse I did while messing around on the PTS. I applied Ele drain myself, had someone else done it I think I could've broke 40k.

The buffs to the destruction staff passives (8% increased damage with single target skills) really helped magNB since its main DoT and spammable are both single-target. I managed 38.7K single target DPS here and with group buffs that would easily be 45K+.

Don't forget also that Sorcs took a pretty big hit to their sustain which was already bad, Templars took a pretty solid DPS hit with the nerf to jesus beam and swords not being significantly better than staff anymore, and MagDK while amazingly strong is the most limited class in terms of range.

Wut?

Sorcs are breaking 49k in PTS mostly selfbuffed.

I know the parse you are talking about and that is incredibly group buffed.

For reference, on live my magsorc hit 32.5k on bloodspawn self buffed and 44k on lightning atro group buffed. It's a gigantic difference.

Paneross · January 2017

susmitds wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the love of god, how many posts will you on this?

How will non-proc gankers function without it?

Why will a class be nerfed unbalanced proc sets?

Until it is rightfully balanced. Just like all you who cried about RD.

LZH · January 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

stickybodyfluid wrote: »

Magicka NB is completely fine in PvE. It might fall slightly short of Magicka Sorc in terms of AoE but it can compete in single target. Here is parse I did while messing around on the PTS. I applied Ele drain myself, had someone else done it I think I could've broke 40k.

The buffs to the destruction staff passives (8% increased damage with single target skills) really helped magNB since its main DoT and spammable are both single-target. I managed 38.7K single target DPS here and with group buffs that would easily be 45K+.

Don't forget also that Sorcs took a pretty big hit to their sustain which was already bad, Templars took a pretty solid DPS hit with the nerf to jesus beam and swords not being significantly better than staff anymore, and MagDK while amazingly strong is the most limited class in terms of range.

Those are fantastic numbers however do remember our minor beserk skews the DPS a bit. As while other classes can get this high and more, they also get combat prayer, so they benefit more from those group buffs.

A few questions, why illambris. It's barely pulling wright for you if you look at the percentage of damage it is giving you in both parses. Could you sustain Kena or is another 5 piece the answer?

I tried illambris, Grothdarr and Valkyn. Valkyn is slightly weaker than illambris, and Grothdarr requires you to be melee. Kena is complete trash imo. The sustain difference is annoying and the amount of times it procs not letting me cast my ultimate is enough of a reason not to use it. Illambris also helps proc spellweave.

leepalmer95 · January 2017

susmitds wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the love of god, how many posts will you on this?

How will non-proc gankers function without it?

Why will a class be nerfed unbalanced proc sets?

Non proc gankers will be fine as they stun from stealth?

Incap is giving too much for it's ult cost. Increase cost to 75 and change the cc to cc's if they are lower and thats it.

Still do the same damage, still have the OP effects on it.

It's just annoying this it's basically part of a nb's dps rotation because it's always up.

kaithuzar · January 2017

I just noticed this thread, read the first page & then tldr;

I agreed with most comments on the first page & assumed subsequent pages are similar.
There were a few things I didn't really see offered up that may have been in pages 2-6 but I'll mention them anyways:

Everyone knows magic nightblade needs a buff, how about giving us minor sorcery? We have too many ways to get major sorcery through sap, pots, or even mage guild skills, but no way to get minor.
We get increased crit from running mage light (major prophecy?), how about giving us a way to get minor prophacy?

These are easily solutions that while they may not fix all of our issues, they would give us slight buffs without the need to make us over powered by any means of the word.

Knockdowns are nice if you wanted to add that. Also, templars & other got minor/major magicka steal & life steal but nothing was added or changed to our siphoning skill tree?

Shuffle is still better than double take.

Why do I spam concealed strike on people in pvp & if they are running shuffle, I hit them 1 out of 10 times; the cost of attempting to spam concealed strike runs me out of magicka with 40k magicka & 1.8k recovery
I'm not even trying to complain about the cost, I just want the skill to hit the opponent!

The teleport shade needing to have a target in range & be looking at the target in order to drop the shade is ridiculous, one of the most hated things about playing magicka nightblade which gimps us!

Impale rarely hits the target because half of the time I'm attempting to spam it, it's greyed out because there is a very small conal area directly in front of you that your target has to be in & you have to be facing him directly just to use the skill; so clunky!

-Kai

Paneross · January 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the love of god, how many posts will you on this?

How will non-proc gankers function without it?

Why will a class be nerfed unbalanced proc sets?

Non proc gankers will be fine as they stun from stealth?

Incap is giving too much for it's ult cost. Increase cost to 75 and change the cc to cc's if they are lower and thats it.

Still do the same damage, still have the OP effects on it.

It's just annoying this it's basically part of a nb's dps rotation because it's always up.

It has essentially just become another regular skill because of the fact it's always up.

susmitds · January 2017

Paneross wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the love of god, how many posts will you on this?

How will non-proc gankers function without it?

Why will a class be nerfed unbalanced proc sets?

Non proc gankers will be fine as they stun from stealth?

Incap is giving too much for it's ult cost. Increase cost to 75 and change the cc to cc's if they are lower and thats it.

Still do the same damage, still have the OP effects on it.

It's just annoying this it's basically part of a nb's dps rotation because it's always up.

It has essentially just become another regular skill because of the fact it's always up.

You know the difference between proc gankers and non-proc gankers?

Non-proc gankers usually get ****blocked from finishing their enemies at 15% HP as they recover while proc gankers have procs deal the last few % percentage of HP.
You can't gank any decent player without an ultimate. Which is why Incap Strike needs to be cheap, otherwise you won't have it everytime you want to gank.
StamNBs got one place where they excel and it's ganking. In every other place, somebody else is much better.
Yes, getting ganked SHOULD always be annoying. Deal with it. That's what NBs are designed for in PvP. We can't facetank zergs like other classes. All we have is instant burst on demand. Taking away the on-demand part kills the class.

BohnT · January 2017

Paneross wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the love of god, how many posts will you on this?

How will non-proc gankers function without it?

Why will a class be nerfed unbalanced proc sets?

Non proc gankers will be fine as they stun from stealth?

Incap is giving too much for it's ult cost. Increase cost to 75 and change the cc to cc's if they are lower and thats it.

Still do the same damage, still have the OP effects on it.

It's just annoying this it's basically part of a nb's dps rotation because it's always up.

It has essentially just become another regular skill because of the fact it's always up.

And still incap wasn't a problem for 90% of the pvp players before proc sets hit us as incap rarely hits for more than 8k. Yea some cried the whole time how they die to all ganker nbs but I can survive almost any gank attempt on me with 23k health and 2.3k impen just break free, dodge roll heal and the nb has a hard time killing you.

I know you'll tell me how op incap is but incap isn't the problem the problem is proc sets combined with incap

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the love of god, how many posts will you on this?

How will non-proc gankers function without it?

Why will a class be nerfed unbalanced proc sets?

Non proc gankers will be fine as they stun from stealth?

Incap is giving too much for it's ult cost. Increase cost to 75 and change the cc to cc's if they are lower and thats it.

Still do the same damage, still have the OP effects on it.

It's just annoying this it's basically part of a nb's dps rotation because it's always up.

For some players like myself this is true because i do not use Fear. Even though Fear is very op for my build id rather not relie on it but instead utilize the stun from surprise attack and incap for combo's. The 50 ult cost lets me chew out incaps rather frequently and id hate to loose this aspect to my build.

I personally think the damage should just be lowered if anything. The healing debuff, increased damage and stun is what really matter in my opinion. If its doing to much damage injunction with proc sets and such just lower its damage.

Paneross · January 2017

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the love of god, how many posts will you on this?

How will non-proc gankers function without it?

Why will a class be nerfed unbalanced proc sets?

Non proc gankers will be fine as they stun from stealth?

Incap is giving too much for it's ult cost. Increase cost to 75 and change the cc to cc's if they are lower and thats it.

Still do the same damage, still have the OP effects on it.

It's just annoying this it's basically part of a nb's dps rotation because it's always up.

For some players like myself this is true because i do not use Fear. Even though Fear is very op for my build id rather not relie on it but instead utilize the stun from surprise attack and incap for combo's. The 50 ult cost lets me chew out incaps rather frequently and id hate to loose this aspect to my build.

I personally think the damage should just be lowered if anything. The healing debuff, increased damage and stun is what really matter in my opinion. If its doing to much damage injunction with proc sets and such just lower its damage.

A honest NB for once. Far from the typical "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasaaaaaaaa I should be able to kill anyone in 3 seconds whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Heavy Armor OP because it takes me an extra seconds to kill them WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

BohnT · January 2017

Paneross wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the love of god, how many posts will you on this?

How will non-proc gankers function without it?

Why will a class be nerfed unbalanced proc sets?

Non proc gankers will be fine as they stun from stealth?

Incap is giving too much for it's ult cost. Increase cost to 75 and change the cc to cc's if they are lower and thats it.

Still do the same damage, still have the OP effects on it.

It's just annoying this it's basically part of a nb's dps rotation because it's always up.

For some players like myself this is true because i do not use Fear. Even though Fear is very op for my build id rather not relie on it but instead utilize the stun from surprise attack and incap for combo's. The 50 ult cost lets me chew out incaps rather frequently and id hate to loose this aspect to my build.

I personally think the damage should just be lowered if anything. The healing debuff, increased damage and stun is what really matter in my opinion. If its doing to much damage injunction with proc sets and such just lower its damage.

A honest NB for once. Far from the typical "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasaaaaaaaa I should be able to kill anyone in 3 seconds whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Heavy Armor OP because it takes me an extra seconds to kill them WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"[/quote

]

You have never played a nb right?
Every nb that kills in 3 seconds either ganks or has a ridiculously bad enemy.
Heavy Armor is a problem on its one and should be nerfed for the extra survivability it gives any playstyle with out any drawbacks. You can have equal burst to a NB and better sustain and much better survivability on any class.

But this is just to show you how biased you are.

Both MagNB and StamNB need help in both PvP and PvE stam more in PvE and less in pvp and mag needs a lot of help in both.
There are many suggestions how to do it and I mentioned my own in this thread before and those should be the only things that should be in this thread.

LiquidPony · January 2017

Paneross wrote: »

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

With the removal of proc crits, the damage boost from Incap is going to result in significantly lower proc damage after Incap.

Have you tested on PTS to see if the removal of critical strikes on proc sets gives you the result you're looking for?

Paneross · January 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the love of god, how many posts will you on this?

How will non-proc gankers function without it?

Why will a class be nerfed unbalanced proc sets?

Non proc gankers will be fine as they stun from stealth?

Incap is giving too much for it's ult cost. Increase cost to 75 and change the cc to cc's if they are lower and thats it.

Still do the same damage, still have the OP effects on it.

It's just annoying this it's basically part of a nb's dps rotation because it's always up.

For some players like myself this is true because i do not use Fear. Even though Fear is very op for my build id rather not relie on it but instead utilize the stun from surprise attack and incap for combo's. The 50 ult cost lets me chew out incaps rather frequently and id hate to loose this aspect to my build.

I personally think the damage should just be lowered if anything. The healing debuff, increased damage and stun is what really matter in my opinion. If its doing to much damage injunction with proc sets and such just lower its damage.

A honest NB for once. Far from the typical "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasaaaaaaaa I should be able to kill anyone in 3 seconds whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Heavy Armor OP because it takes me an extra seconds to kill them WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"[/quote

]

You have never played a nb right?
Every nb that kills in 3 seconds either ganks or has a ridiculously bad enemy.
Heavy Armor is a problem on its one and should be nerfed for the extra survivability it gives any playstyle with out any drawbacks. You can have equal burst to a NB and better sustain and much better survivability on any class.

But this is just to show you how biased you are.

Both MagNB and StamNB need help in both PvP and PvE stam more in PvE and less in pvp and mag needs a lot of help in both.
There are many suggestions how to do it and I mentioned my own in this thread before and those should be the only things that should be in this thread.

Yes I have a stam and mag nightblade. Your argument is now invalid.