Willpower/Agility vs. Minor Slayer 3p Jewelry Sets

code65536

Update 11 saw the Minor Slayer buff changed from affecting "Boss Monsters" to "Dungeon and Trial Monsters".


TL;DR: The Minor Slayer jewelry sets are the new best-in-slot, finally displacing the old Willpower/Agility *IF* you do not rely heavily on execute damage.

Basic tests: Does Minor Slayer work and on what?

Yes, Minor Slayer works (mostly) as advertised.

I ran a series of basic tests. I would attack enemies while wearing 3p Moondancer jewelry, and then attack them again after having swapped one of the Moondancer jewelry pieces with an Infalliable Aether jewelry piece. Replacing one jewelry piece with an identically-statted jewelry piece of a different set causes me to lose just the Minor Slayer buff while keeping everything else the same. I would note and compare the exact damage numbers with and without Minor Slayer.

I tested this against enemies in Spindleclutch, Sanctum, DSA, Maelstrom, gargoyles in Craglorn, and finally, a World Boss, Public Dungeon, and delve in Eastmarch.

• As expected, Minor Slayer produced a 5% damage increase to both my basic weapon attacks and my abilities in 4-player group dungeons, 12-player trials, and the two arenas.
• It works in both the scored vet and unscored normal versions of the trials/arenas.
• It works against every tested enemy in the dungeons/trials, even human ones (in case there was any confusion about what constituted a "Monster")
• It does not work against overworld enemies.
• It does not work against the World Boss.
• It does not work in delves.
• It does not work in public dungeons. (so the tooltip's use of the word "Dungeon" is a bit ambiguous here)

Caveats:

• Minor Slayer is currently broken on console. (Thread #1, Thread #2)
• Minor Slayer stacks additively with execute damage. See @Asayre's post #41 in this thread.

Old vs. New: Willpower/Agility vs. Minor Slayer

The most interesting question is whether a 3p Minor Slayer jewelry set will outperform a 3p Willpower/Agility set. For simplicity, I'm not considering the full 5p set in this post--just a 3p jewelry set that can act as a drop-in replacement for 3p Willpower/Agility.

The Willpower and Agility sets are quite powerful because their set bonuses are 50% stronger than the typical set bonus. However, they provide a flat bonus to your base damage, whereas Minor Slayer provides a percentage bonus. So at a certain point, your base damage stats will be high enough that Minor Slayer will outperform Willpower/Agility.

To get a rough idea of what this looks like, I did a few tests.

• No armor, vMA staff, and a 3p jewelry set with spell damage enchants: purple arcane Willpower, gold arcane Infallible, and gold arcane Moondancer
• 5p Julianos, 2p Nerien'eth, vMA staff, and a 3p jewelry set with spell damage enchants: purple arcane Willpower, gold arcane Infallible, and gold arcane Moondancer

The results are here:


First, the tests without any armor were done to confirm the expectation that, with lower base stats (missing set bonuses and missing gear enchantments when going armorless), the results skew more towards Willpower's favor (and it did, slightly). And this was also a way for me to see just how much base stats could skew the Slayer vs. Willpower/Agility comparison (not by that much) and thus how applicable this is to other builds that have different base stats (quite applicable).

Second, with my typical dungeon setup, 3p Minor Slayer (via Moondancer) was able to outperform 3p Willpower by 1.3% for abilities. Staff attacks disproportionally favor spell damage, so Willpower wins has a slight win there. On the whole, 3p Minor Slayer (via Moondancer) represents approximately a 1% DPS increase over Willpower.

Crit: 3p Infallible vs. 3p Moondancer

So far, I've only compared Moondancer to Willpower, because the crit chance remains the same, so all you need to do is compare how much each attack hits for.

Whereas Moondancer has max magicka as its 2p bonus, Infallible has a 3.1% crit chance as its 2p bonus. The expected DPS from extra crit is calculated by (crit chance * crit damage bonus), and for my magicka nightblade, I have a base crit damage bonus of 0.74. So the 3.1% crit bonus from Infallible translates into 2.29% extra DPS. Different classes and builds have different crit damage bonuses (Nightblades and Templars have passives that increase this, and the number of points you put into Elfborn or Precise Strikes will affect this as well), and I have not taken into account the Minor/Major Force operational bonuses.

So while 3p Infallible has 1.88% less staff damage and 0.96% less ability damage on my nightblade than 3p Willpower, its crit chance is worth 2.29% extra damage on my nightblade, and on the whole, it is a DPS increase over Willpower. This difference in favor of Infallible would be even higher with Minor and/or Major Force active, such as when a War Horn is active, and when there are additional bonuses of crit damage (e.g., running Shadow with Twice-Born Star).

Versus Moondancer, the difference is quite minimal on my nightblade's build: the 2.29% extra damage from crit chance cancels out the 2.27% baseline advantage that Moondancer has over Infallible. Things swing more in Infallible favor when considering staff attacks, when adding in Minor/Major Force, and if I were to use TBS instead of Julianos.

Update: Minor Slayer stacks additively with execute damage

Rather unintuitively, the Minor Slayer buff stacks additively to the damage increase from execute. More details can be found in @Asayre's post on the second page. This was not a scenario that I had considered in my original tests, so a big thanks to @Asayre for uncovering this problem.

In short, it means that Minor Slayer's 5% is calculated from the base pre-execute damage and does not buff any of the execution bonus. This is rather unintuitive, and it's unclear if it is intended or an oversight by ZOS. Whatever case, the way in which Minor Slayer works right now, its performance is very lackluster for builds that deal a lot of execute damage (magicka Templars in particular).

Conclusion: 3p Minor Slayer is better than 3p Willpower/Agility, though not by much

While these numbers and tests are specific to my magicka nightblade's build, I don't expect them to be that different for other builds and classes.

For stamina users, 3p Alkosh or 3p Vicious Ophidian with Minor Slayer should slightly outperform 3p Agility. (These two sets have the same 2p and 3p bonuses.) (Though for stamina, people should seriously consider running the full 5p Vicious Ophidian.)

For magicka users, both 3p Moondancer and 3p Infallible should both slightly outperform 3p Willpower, with Moondancer doing more damage per hit than Infallible, and Infallible getting more crits. Depending on how much crit damage you have, Infallible will either perform on par with Moondancer or somewhat better (particularly in trials with TBS with War Horn).

Of course, this doesn't necessarily spell the doom of Willpower/Agility: you will still want to use those sets for PvP, and in PvE, the advantage of the Minor Slayer sets apply only for the 4-person group dungeons, the 12-person trials, DSA, and MA (though those are the only pieces of PvE content worth optimizing for).

Nestor

Nice work testing this, thank you.

Waffennacht

So like, you wanna change your jewelry for this when facing a NPC? Cool...

I guess that makes it worth it...

Or not

code65536

Waffennacht wrote: »

So like, you wanna change your jewelry for this when facing a NPC? Cool...

I guess that makes it worth it...

Or not

Erm... Any enemy in any group dungeon, trial, DSA, and MA. Basically, any and all endgame PvE. Is that scope not broad enough for you?

The only time I wouldn't use this is if I'm doing PvP. but I use very different gear sets for PvP anyway. Normal PvE (delves, questing, etc.) is a joke and it doesn't matter what you use for that.

CasNation

That makes me feel a lot better about buying that VO neck off a group mate last night...

Thanks for the testing!

Gilvoth

noted for reference

Gilvoth

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

code65536

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

First, it would have been nice to include a summary of the video and the specific point that he was making. But the jist that I got is that he says Willpower and Agility are extremely powerful because their set bonuses are 50% more potent.

And if you had read the first post, you'll see that I acknowledged and addressed this specific concern. Specifically, I had written, "The Willpower and Agility sets are quite powerful because their set bonuses are 50% stronger than the typical set bonus. However, they provide a flat bonus to your base damage, whereas Minor Slayer provides a percentage bonus. So at a certain point, your base damage stats will be high enough that Minor Slayer will outperform Willpower/Agility."

For endgame PvE, a 3p Minor Slayer jewelry set will outperform Willpower/Agility despite the bonus stats on Willpower/Agility because the Minor Slayer set bonus is worth more than the Willpower/Agility bonuses.

hedna123b14_ESO

code65536 wrote: »

Update 11 saw the Minor Slayer buff changed from affecting "Boss Monsters" to "Dungeon and Trial Monsters".


TL;DR: The Minor Slayer jewelry sets are the new best-in-slot, finally displacing the old Willpower/Agility.

Basic tests: Does Minor Slayer work and on what?

Yes, Minor Slayer works as advertised.

I ran a series of basic tests. I would attack enemies while wearing 3p Moondancer jewelry, and then attack them again after having swapped one of the Moondancer jewelry pieces with an Infalliable Aether jewelry piece. Replacing one jewelry piece with an identically-statted jewelry piece of a different set causes me to lose just the Minor Slayer buff while keeping everything else the same. I would note and compare the exact damage numbers with and without Minor Slayer.

I tested this against enemies in Spindleclutch, Sanctum, DSA, Maelstrom, gargoyles in Craglorn, and finally, a World Boss, Public Dungeon, and delve in Eastmarch.

• As expected, Minor Slayer produced a 5% damage increase to both my basic weapon attacks and my abilities in 4-player group dungeons, 12-player trials, and the two arenas.
• It works in both the scored vet and unscored normal versions of the trials/arenas.
• It works against every tested enemy in the dungeons/trials, even human ones (in case there was any confusion about what constituted a "Monster")
• It does not work against overworld enemies.
• It does not work against the World Boss.
• It does not work in delves.
• It does not work in public dungeons. (so the tooltip's use of the word "Dungeon" is a bit ambiguous here)

Old vs. New: Willpower/Agility vs. Minor Slayer

The most interesting question is whether a 3p Minor Slayer jewelry set will outperform a 3p Willpower/Agility set. For simplicity, I'm not considering the full 5p set in this post--just a 3p jewelry set that can act as a drop-in replacement for 3p Willpower/Agility.

The Willpower and Agility sets are quite powerful because their set bonuses are 50% stronger than the typical set bonus. However, they provide a flat bonus to your base damage, whereas Minor Slayer provides a percentage bonus. So at a certain point, your base damage stats will be high enough that Minor Slayer will outperform Willpower/Agility.

To get a rough idea of what this looks like, I did a few tests.

• No armor, vMA staff, and a 3p jewelry set with spell damage enchants: purple arcane Willpower, gold arcane Infallible, and gold arcane Moondancer
• 5p Julianos, 2p Nerien'eth, vMA staff, and a 3p jewelry set with spell damage enchants: purple arcane Willpower, gold arcane Infallible, and gold arcane Moondancer

The results are here:


First, the tests without any armor were done to confirm the expectation that, with lower base stats (missing set bonuses and missing gear enchantments when going armorless), the results skew more towards Willpower's favor (and it did, slightly). And this was also a way for me to see just how much base stats could skew the Slayer vs. Willpower/Agility comparison (not by that much) and thus how applicable this is to other builds that have different base stats (quite applicable).

Second, with my typical dungeon setup, 3p Minor Slayer (via Moondancer) was able to outperform 3p Willpower by 1.3% for abilities. Staff attacks disproportionally favor spell damage, so Willpower wins has a slight win there. On the whole, 3p Minor Slayer (via Moondancer) represents approximately a 1% DPS increase over Willpower.

Crit: 3p Infallible vs. 3p Moondancer

So far, I've only compared Moondancer to Willpower, because the crit chance remains the same, so all you need to do is compare how much each attack hits for.

Whereas Moondancer has max magicka as its 2p bonus, Infallible has a 3.1% crit chance as its 2p bonus. The expected DPS from extra crit is calculated by (crit chance * crit damage bonus), and for my magicka nightblade, I have a base crit damage bonus of 0.74. So the 3.1% crit bonus from Infallible translates into 2.29% extra DPS. Different classes and builds have different crit damage bonuses (Nightblades and Templars have passives that increase this, and the number of points you put into Elfborn or Precise Strikes will affect this as well), and I have not taken into account the Minor/Major Force operational bonuses.

So while 3p Infallible has 1.88% less staff damage and 0.96% less ability damage on my nightblade than 3p Willpower, its crit chance is worth 2.29% extra damage on my nightblade, and on the whole, it is a DPS increase over Willpower. This difference in favor of Infallible would be even higher with Minor and/or Major Force active, such as when a War Horn is active, and when there are additional bonuses of crit damage (e.g., running Shadow with Twice-Born Star).

Versus Moondancer, the difference is quite minimal on my nightblade's build: the 2.29% extra damage from crit chance cancels out the 2.27% baseline advantage that Moondancer has over Infallible. Things swing more in Infallible favor when considering staff attacks, when adding in Minor/Major Force, and if I were to use TBS instead of Julianos.

Conclusion: 3p Minor Slayer is better than 3p Willpower/Agility, though not by much

While these numbers and tests are specific to my magicka nightblade's build, I don't expect them to be that different for other builds and classes.

For stamina users, 3p Alkosh or 3p Vicious Ophidian with Minor Slayer should slightly outperform 3p Agility. (These two sets have the same 2p and 3p bonuses.) (Though for stamina, people should seriously consider running the full 5p Vicious Ophidian.)

For magicka users, both 3p Moondancer and 3p Infallible should both slightly outperform 3p Willpower, with Moondancer doing more damage per hit than Infallible, and Infallible getting more crits. Depending on how much crit damage you have, Infallible will either perform on par with Moondancer or somewhat better (particularly in trials with TBS with War Horn).

Of course, this doesn't necessarily spell the doom of Willpower/Agility: you will still want to use those sets for PvP, and in PvE, the advantage of the Minor Slayer sets apply only for the 4-person group dungeons, the 12-person trials, DSA, and MA (though those are the only pieces of PvE content worth optimizing for).

Great analysis, I was following your math, I just want to point something out, not sure if you are already aware of it. When I compare set efficacy instead of evaluating their set bonuses I go straight for the overall equation, makes it easier to combine all of the mathematical constituents into one number.

For example if I have a 74% critical damage modifier and a critical chance of 60%, I would do 1+(.74)(.6) = 1.444 average damage multiplier. Meaning on average you will be dealing around 144.4% of you base damage.

If I now raise the crit to 63.1% then I get = 1+(.74)(.631) = 1.467 average damage multiplier. Using your formula we would Subtract 1.444 from 1.467 and get .023 average damage difference. This shows that you added .023 average damage multiplier, but that doesnt tell you the actual percent you increased your damage by, to do that you divide 1.467 by 1.444 giving you 1.016 or 1.6% DPS increase.

for example if I do a base 1000 damage then with the same modifiers as above I would deal 1467 and 1444 damage on average. The difference between is 23 damage, but the increase to DPS percent-wise is 1.6%.

Waffennacht

The "worth it" part is what I was getting at. Not that, if you can, use the sets.

But how much are those sets in jewelry (hopefully not gold?) going for?

Willpower/agility are like really affordable right now.

code65536

Waffennacht wrote: »

The "worth it" part is what I was getting at. Not that, if you can, use the sets.

But how much are those sets in jewelry (hopefully not gold?) going for?

Willpower/agility are like really affordable right now.

Ah, okay. Well, these sets are bind-on-pickup drops, so there is no gold value. (Though with group trading in Update 11, you might end up paying gold to a team member who got the drop.) How easy they are to acquire relative to Willpower/Agility depends a lot on what kind of content you run. If you're someone like me who spends a ton of time in trials, Infallible and Vicious Ophidian are much easier to acquire than Willpower/Agility. In contrast, someone who spends their time farming gold or farming IC will find that Willpower/Agility to be easier to acquire.

For me personally, I have earned just one full Agility set since IC's launch almost a year ago. Just one in 11 months. Mostly because I don't farm IC/sewers that much, and the times when I did farm it, my vault luck was horrendous. In contrast, in the span of just two months, I am now one ring away from completing my 4th full set of Vicious Ophidian jewelry. If you already have Agility/Willpower and trials are not appealing to you, you should just stick with Agility/Willpower because they're still good--the difference between them and the Minor Slayer sets isn't exactly earth-shattering. If you're like me and have multiple stamina characters sharing a single Agility jewelry set with multiple VO sets lying around, then you'd likely regard this change to Minor Slayer as being quite fortuitous.

AtmaDarkwolf

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

JamieAubrey

So its mainly a PvE set ? No use having 3 piece in PvP

SleepyTroll

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

code65536

JamieAubrey wrote: »

So its mainly a PvE set ? No use having 3 piece in PvP

Yes, PvE only.

Alcast

Nice testing. I think both are neccassary, WIllpower and Minor Slayer as both give tons of stats.

Sypher

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

So what's your solution? All I got from your comment is you have the attention span of a squirrel and you feel robbed of your precious 10 minutes.

Maybe the problem and solution went over your head and you missed the big picture. I'd ask you to listen carefully but I doubt you can give it another run after that painful 10 minutes of me rambling.

Sypher

SleepyTroll wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

SleepyTroll

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

@Sypher
Imagine if ZOS responded like this to you with all your ranting and bitching you do about the game acting like you can do the job better then them. What would you say? What you said is like ZOS telling me to go make my own costume because I told them the Breton costume was lazily put together.

Weather you agree with me or not is beside the point, the content in the video was lazy, it was too long for what it was about. This is your job, not everyone is going to be a fan boy and enjoy your content no matter what. Go watch your video from a viewers point of view, like if you were just watching another video on you tube and tell me you would say that was good content.

You aint doing this for fun anymore, its a job and if you want people to acknowledge what you do as a real job, You, your self should act like its a real job. Just saying.

p.s If you think I'm saying this because I dont like you, I'm not, I'm saying this because the creator of the post that your video was linked in as evidence to an argument, Put fourth 100% more effort then you did, and they probably did it for fun.

Sypher

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

@Sypher
Imagine if ZOS responded like this to you with all your ranting and bitching you do about the game acting like you can do the job better then them. What would you say? What you said is like ZOS telling me to go make my own costume because I told them the Breton costume was lazily put together.

Weather you agree with me or not is beside the point, the content in the video was lazy, it was too long for what it was about. This is your job, not everyone is going to be a fan boy and enjoy your content no matter what. Go watch your video from a viewers point of view, like if you were just watching another video on you tube and tell me you would say that was good content.

You aint doing this for fun anymore, its a job and if you want people to acknowledge what you do as a real job, You, your self should act like its a real job. Just saying.

p.s If you think I'm saying this because I dont like you, I'm not, I'm saying this because the creator of the post that your video was linked in as evidence to an argument, Put fourth 100% more effort then you did, and they probably did it for fun.

The original post doesn't actually conflict or even correlate with my video. He's comparing end game PvE jewelry slots. My video doesn't have the answers but it was meant to start a discussion about gear variety in a PVP setting.

SleepyTroll

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

@Sypher
Imagine if ZOS responded like this to you with all your ranting and bitching you do about the game acting like you can do the job better then them. What would you say? What you said is like ZOS telling me to go make my own costume because I told them the Breton costume was lazily put together.

Weather you agree with me or not is beside the point, the content in the video was lazy, it was too long for what it was about. This is your job, not everyone is going to be a fan boy and enjoy your content no matter what. Go watch your video from a viewers point of view, like if you were just watching another video on you tube and tell me you would say that was good content.

You aint doing this for fun anymore, its a job and if you want people to acknowledge what you do as a real job, You, your self should act like its a real job. Just saying.

p.s If you think I'm saying this because I dont like you, I'm not, I'm saying this because the creator of the post that your video was linked in as evidence to an argument, Put fourth 100% more effort then you did, and they probably did it for fun.

The original post doesn't actually conflict or even correlate with my video. He's comparing end game PvE jewelry slots. My video doesn't have the answers but it was meant to start a discussion about gear variety in a PVP setting.

@Sypher
Funny how you were just saying the other person had the attention span of a squirrel yet you read my post and only replied to the last sentence.

Sypher

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

@Sypher
Imagine if ZOS responded like this to you with all your ranting and bitching you do about the game acting like you can do the job better then them. What would you say? What you said is like ZOS telling me to go make my own costume because I told them the Breton costume was lazily put together.

Weather you agree with me or not is beside the point, the content in the video was lazy, it was too long for what it was about. This is your job, not everyone is going to be a fan boy and enjoy your content no matter what. Go watch your video from a viewers point of view, like if you were just watching another video on you tube and tell me you would say that was good content.

You aint doing this for fun anymore, its a job and if you want people to acknowledge what you do as a real job, You, your self should act like its a real job. Just saying.

p.s If you think I'm saying this because I dont like you, I'm not, I'm saying this because the creator of the post that your video was linked in as evidence to an argument, Put fourth 100% more effort then you did, and they probably did it for fun.

The original post doesn't actually conflict or even correlate with my video. He's comparing end game PvE jewelry slots. My video doesn't have the answers but it was meant to start a discussion about gear variety in a PVP setting.

@Sypher
Funny how you were just saying the other person had the attention span of a squirrel yet you read my post and only replied to the last sentence.

I just didn't take the entire bait. Name checks out.

SleepyTroll

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

@Sypher
Imagine if ZOS responded like this to you with all your ranting and bitching you do about the game acting like you can do the job better then them. What would you say? What you said is like ZOS telling me to go make my own costume because I told them the Breton costume was lazily put together.

Weather you agree with me or not is beside the point, the content in the video was lazy, it was too long for what it was about. This is your job, not everyone is going to be a fan boy and enjoy your content no matter what. Go watch your video from a viewers point of view, like if you were just watching another video on you tube and tell me you would say that was good content.

You aint doing this for fun anymore, its a job and if you want people to acknowledge what you do as a real job, You, your self should act like its a real job. Just saying.

p.s If you think I'm saying this because I dont like you, I'm not, I'm saying this because the creator of the post that your video was linked in as evidence to an argument, Put fourth 100% more effort then you did, and they probably did it for fun.

The original post doesn't actually conflict or even correlate with my video. He's comparing end game PvE jewelry slots. My video doesn't have the answers but it was meant to start a discussion about gear variety in a PVP setting.

@Sypher
Funny how you were just saying the other person had the attention span of a squirrel yet you read my post and only replied to the last sentence.

I just didn't take the entire bait. Name checks out.

Yup because I had some things to say about your video means I'm trolling. Good job Sypher, just take every criticism you get along your career as a video game content creator/streamer as troll.

psychotic13

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

@Sypher
Imagine if ZOS responded like this to you with all your ranting and bitching you do about the game acting like you can do the job better then them. What would you say? What you said is like ZOS telling me to go make my own costume because I told them the Breton costume was lazily put together.

Weather you agree with me or not is beside the point, the content in the video was lazy, it was too long for what it was about. This is your job, not everyone is going to be a fan boy and enjoy your content no matter what. Go watch your video from a viewers point of view, like if you were just watching another video on you tube and tell me you would say that was good content.

You aint doing this for fun anymore, its a job and if you want people to acknowledge what you do as a real job, You, your self should act like its a real job. Just saying.

p.s If you think I'm saying this because I dont like you, I'm not, I'm saying this because the creator of the post that your video was linked in as evidence to an argument, Put fourth 100% more effort then you did, and they probably did it for fun.

The original post doesn't actually conflict or even correlate with my video. He's comparing end game PvE jewelry slots. My video doesn't have the answers but it was meant to start a discussion about gear variety in a PVP setting.

@Sypher
Funny how you were just saying the other person had the attention span of a squirrel yet you read my post and only replied to the last sentence.

I just didn't take the entire bait. Name checks out.

Yup because I had some things to say about your video means I'm trolling. Good job Sypher, just take every criticism you get along your career as a video game content creator/streamer as troll.

Don't watch his videos then? Jesus Christ...

SleepyTroll

psychotic13 wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

@Sypher
Imagine if ZOS responded like this to you with all your ranting and bitching you do about the game acting like you can do the job better then them. What would you say? What you said is like ZOS telling me to go make my own costume because I told them the Breton costume was lazily put together.

Weather you agree with me or not is beside the point, the content in the video was lazy, it was too long for what it was about. This is your job, not everyone is going to be a fan boy and enjoy your content no matter what. Go watch your video from a viewers point of view, like if you were just watching another video on you tube and tell me you would say that was good content.

You aint doing this for fun anymore, its a job and if you want people to acknowledge what you do as a real job, You, your self should act like its a real job. Just saying.

p.s If you think I'm saying this because I dont like you, I'm not, I'm saying this because the creator of the post that your video was linked in as evidence to an argument, Put fourth 100% more effort then you did, and they probably did it for fun.

The original post doesn't actually conflict or even correlate with my video. He's comparing end game PvE jewelry slots. My video doesn't have the answers but it was meant to start a discussion about gear variety in a PVP setting.

@Sypher
Funny how you were just saying the other person had the attention span of a squirrel yet you read my post and only replied to the last sentence.

I just didn't take the entire bait. Name checks out.

Yup because I had some things to say about your video means I'm trolling. Good job Sypher, just take every criticism you get along your career as a video game content creator/streamer as troll.

Don't watch his videos then? Jesus Christ...

Dude the video like I said was linked as an argument to the op(even though it had nothing to do with it). That's why I watched it. Fanboys make me cringe.

psychotic13

SleepyTroll wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

@Sypher
Imagine if ZOS responded like this to you with all your ranting and bitching you do about the game acting like you can do the job better then them. What would you say? What you said is like ZOS telling me to go make my own costume because I told them the Breton costume was lazily put together.

Weather you agree with me or not is beside the point, the content in the video was lazy, it was too long for what it was about. This is your job, not everyone is going to be a fan boy and enjoy your content no matter what. Go watch your video from a viewers point of view, like if you were just watching another video on you tube and tell me you would say that was good content.

You aint doing this for fun anymore, its a job and if you want people to acknowledge what you do as a real job, You, your self should act like its a real job. Just saying.

p.s If you think I'm saying this because I dont like you, I'm not, I'm saying this because the creator of the post that your video was linked in as evidence to an argument, Put fourth 100% more effort then you did, and they probably did it for fun.

The original post doesn't actually conflict or even correlate with my video. He's comparing end game PvE jewelry slots. My video doesn't have the answers but it was meant to start a discussion about gear variety in a PVP setting.

@Sypher
Funny how you were just saying the other person had the attention span of a squirrel yet you read my post and only replied to the last sentence.

I just didn't take the entire bait. Name checks out.

Yup because I had some things to say about your video means I'm trolling. Good job Sypher, just take every criticism you get along your career as a video game content creator/streamer as troll.

Don't watch his videos then? Jesus Christ...

Dude the video like I said was linked as an argument to the op(even though it had nothing to do with it). That's why I watched it. Fanboys make me cringe.

Yeah the video may have took a while to get to the point, but you clearly have a chip on your shoulder telling people how to do their jobs, what if I told you how to do your job because you're a lazy half assed prick?

I'm no fanboy, but you must have watched more of his videos to have such an opinion, if it annoys you then don't watch them is all I'm saying. Stop being to petty what are you some little kid?

Mojmir

You don't have to eat the mic sypher,lol!!!!

SleepyTroll

psychotic13 wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

@Sypher
Imagine if ZOS responded like this to you with all your ranting and bitching you do about the game acting like you can do the job better then them. What would you say? What you said is like ZOS telling me to go make my own costume because I told them the Breton costume was lazily put together.

Weather you agree with me or not is beside the point, the content in the video was lazy, it was too long for what it was about. This is your job, not everyone is going to be a fan boy and enjoy your content no matter what. Go watch your video from a viewers point of view, like if you were just watching another video on you tube and tell me you would say that was good content.

You aint doing this for fun anymore, its a job and if you want people to acknowledge what you do as a real job, You, your self should act like its a real job. Just saying.

p.s If you think I'm saying this because I dont like you, I'm not, I'm saying this because the creator of the post that your video was linked in as evidence to an argument, Put fourth 100% more effort then you did, and they probably did it for fun.

The original post doesn't actually conflict or even correlate with my video. He's comparing end game PvE jewelry slots. My video doesn't have the answers but it was meant to start a discussion about gear variety in a PVP setting.

@Sypher
Funny how you were just saying the other person had the attention span of a squirrel yet you read my post and only replied to the last sentence.

I just didn't take the entire bait. Name checks out.

Yup because I had some things to say about your video means I'm trolling. Good job Sypher, just take every criticism you get along your career as a video game content creator/streamer as troll.

Don't watch his videos then? Jesus Christ...

Dude the video like I said was linked as an argument to the op(even though it had nothing to do with it). That's why I watched it. Fanboys make me cringe.

Yeah the video may have took a while to get to the point, but you clearly have a chip on your shoulder telling people how to do their jobs, what if I told you how to do your job because you're a lazy half assed prick?

I'm no fanboy, but you must have watched more of his videos to have such an opinion, if it annoys you then don't watch them is all I'm saying. Stop being to petty what are you some little kid?

I have a chip on my shoulder because I critI sized a video. Ok. Also when did I call him a lazy half ass prick? But if some one told me that at my job personally I would just prove them wrong. Everything I said was because of that one video as his comments. And lastly what does my age have to do with anything? Your first sentence tells me you probably haven't had a real job before what response were you expecting lol me to fight them? Tell them to *** off? Yea I don't think that would get you to far in life but good luck.

psychotic13

SleepyTroll wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

This is what happens when streamers/youtubers are lazy and just pull *** straight from their twitch instead of actually spending time on a good educational video. Gotta get them views. If it's your job you should probably try and be a little more Profesional just saying.

I'm sorry I'm not up to your standard. Oh wait, I'm not sorry. You should go look for the other educational videos about our game or make your own.

@Sypher
Imagine if ZOS responded like this to you with all your ranting and bitching you do about the game acting like you can do the job better then them. What would you say? What you said is like ZOS telling me to go make my own costume because I told them the Breton costume was lazily put together.

Weather you agree with me or not is beside the point, the content in the video was lazy, it was too long for what it was about. This is your job, not everyone is going to be a fan boy and enjoy your content no matter what. Go watch your video from a viewers point of view, like if you were just watching another video on you tube and tell me you would say that was good content.

You aint doing this for fun anymore, its a job and if you want people to acknowledge what you do as a real job, You, your self should act like its a real job. Just saying.

p.s If you think I'm saying this because I dont like you, I'm not, I'm saying this because the creator of the post that your video was linked in as evidence to an argument, Put fourth 100% more effort then you did, and they probably did it for fun.

The original post doesn't actually conflict or even correlate with my video. He's comparing end game PvE jewelry slots. My video doesn't have the answers but it was meant to start a discussion about gear variety in a PVP setting.

@Sypher
Funny how you were just saying the other person had the attention span of a squirrel yet you read my post and only replied to the last sentence.

I just didn't take the entire bait. Name checks out.

Yup because I had some things to say about your video means I'm trolling. Good job Sypher, just take every criticism you get along your career as a video game content creator/streamer as troll.

Don't watch his videos then? Jesus Christ...

Dude the video like I said was linked as an argument to the op(even though it had nothing to do with it). That's why I watched it. Fanboys make me cringe.

Yeah the video may have took a while to get to the point, but you clearly have a chip on your shoulder telling people how to do their jobs, what if I told you how to do your job because you're a lazy half assed prick?

I'm no fanboy, but you must have watched more of his videos to have such an opinion, if it annoys you then don't watch them is all I'm saying. Stop being to petty what are you some little kid?

I have a chip on my shoulder because I critI sized a video. Ok. Also when did I call him a lazy half ass prick? But if some one told me that at my job personally I would just prove them wrong. Everything I said was because of that one video as his comments. And lastly what does my age have to do with anything? Your first sentence tells me you probably haven't had a real job before what response were you expecting lol me to fight them? Tell them to *** off? Yea I don't think that would get you to far in life but good luck.

haven't had a real job lol ok mate, I'm not even going to waste my time with a real reply to you cause you're obviously a child/

AtmaDarkwolf

Sypher wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this video presentation below directly opposes your belief and says you are incorrect in your theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMALX_u4Mxs

Sheesh someone has to teach sypher how to get to the freaking point already. OH-MY-GOD I had to sit though his stammering/stuttering confused 'i am not sure what I'm talking about but oh yea i remember what i was saying' speech.

Jezz does he ramble on and on, and im not even sure DID reach the point he was trying to say.


LMAO edit: In the end he comes to a very, very, very obvious point anyone whos even seen a maelstrom 2h would realize about 1/3 of a second after reading it. THANKS SYPHER FOR SPENDING 15min TO TELL US SOMETHING ANYONE WOULD REALIZE THEMSELVES IN AN INSTANT!

So what's your solution? All I got from your comment is you have the attention span of a squirrel and you feel robbed of your precious 10 minutes.

Maybe the problem and solution went over your head and you missed the big picture. I'd ask you to listen carefully but I doubt you can give it another run after that painful 10 minutes of me rambling.

Don't have to attempt to trash me, I've always loved your guides(Written ones) but you stutter, stammer way too much, esp for a person who really, SHOULD be a public speaker. You spent way too much time reaching a very obvious point(I got it, i figured what you were leaning toward inside the first 30 seconds, trust me, I GOT what your saying)

But sorry, I lost respect for you with this trash post, if you can't handle constructive criticism, i guess thats just that. I'll continue to READ your builds, but i doubt i'll ever bother clicking one of your u tube videos again

Izaki

MOONDANCER BiS. Always knew it was a great set, but now its even better. Here we go, the new magic DPS meta : Molag Kena, Scathing Mage and Moondancer.