STOP DOING EQUIPMENT WRITS

Glamdring · August 2016

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

I think this analogy is wrong.

Lets say you can sell the blackberries for $1 per pound (sell raw mats). You pick 100 and sell it at the market and make $100 profit.

Or you can make blackberry pies (writs). The pies sell for $2, but each requires 3 lbs of blackberries to make. Your profit is $66.

In both cases you make profit, but in the case of the pies you make less. In this case a loss of $34. Not to mention the time it took to make the pies.

Maybe this can make @imnotanother understand why he looses money and time by making thoose blueberry pies errr sry i mean writs , but i doubt it after reading his reasoning in this thread

Vangy · August 2016

Glamdring wrote: »

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

I think this analogy is wrong.

Lets say you can sell the blackberries for $1 per pound (sell raw mats). You pick 100 and sell it at the market and make $100 profit.

Or you can make blackberry pies (writs). The pies sell for $2, but each requires 3 lbs of blackberries to make. Your profit is $66.

In both cases you make profit, but in the case of the pies you make less. In this case a loss of $34. Not to mention the time it took to make the pies.

Maybe this can make @imnotanother understand why he looses money and time by making thoose blueberry pies errr sry i mean writs , but i doubt it after reading his reasoning in this thread

I think ive come to understand something by reading this thread..... If everyone thinks like me..... And avoids selling blue berry pies.... Then the market for blueberries will crash... Which is bad for me.... So sure.... Im glad people think making blue berry pies errr writs are awesome....... That way I can make my living by selling blueberries err mats...

Arundo · August 2016

I did them for the achievements and then stopped, thats been a year i guess.

mike_de · August 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Travy_2Hype wrote: »

But.. but.. they're so addicting!
However, they are a complete loss overall. Only thing I enjoy from them is getting the surveys, not to mention I still need the achievement for doing X amount of writs. After I hit that achievement, I'll most likely stop.

Provisioning, alchemy, and for the most part, Enchanting are still absolutely worth doing. If you just want the writ achievements, and don't care about getting it done right now, then those are a better route to go.

EDIT: I mean, that's the really confusing thing to me. The consumable writs actually help you build up a stockpile of useful materials. The equipment writs drain your material stockpiles on a dice roll for goodies, like glass pages and gold upgrade mats. I honestly don't know which is the intended outcome. Are writs supposed to be an expensive diceroll, or are they there to help players get the crafting mats they need to make the stuff they actually want?

I stopped doing equipment writs on level 30! You cannot get anything with them. They have to fix this system, because any person with half a brain sees, that this will not get you the real amount of money and time you invested in it, only gathering the mats.

They have to change the things, you get out of these writs. And the value has to reflect the amount and value of mats you put into it. Think about it: Someone who crafts things, has usually to live from the gains.

Even the experience gain is ridiculous. It does not match the skill of your crafters at all.

The writs in the crafting system are deeply flawed, like the whole loot system in ESO. It needs to be fixed.

I_killed_Vivec · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.

The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.

And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.

I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.

Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.

And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.

You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time

But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.

I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.

The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.

It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.

Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.

The choice is yours

And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...

It is not a matter of choice - as long as you have those materials they are asset - at market value - when you use them, your asset value goes down by what those materials are worth at market value - so that are your costs, because your asset value decrease by exactly that market value of those materials.

And just an advice, never start a business, you will not have fun with it.

Of course it's a matter of choice! Do I sell the flowers, or do I save them? That's a choice.

Who cares about your "asset value"? Gold is easy to get in this game, nobody can force you to sell your flowers.

But I'll play along, if you want to talk about asset value then don't forget to factor in your increase in skill, your ability to create potions for free instead of having to buy them. The assets that you lose when you use flowers... it's converted into a greater asset value in potions.

You might make a temporary gain in realizing your assets by selling those flowers or you might get your kicks saving them up and marvelling at your "asset value", but there's a much greater opportunity loss looming in the future when you start to wonder if it might have been better to learn to create your own potions rather than have to depend on the market for them.

Bean counters have a restricted short term view

you do not learn how to make potions by doing writs, simply because you do the same few potions over and over again - so do not come with that -. this has nothing to do with writs anymore.

[Edited to remove inappropriate comment.]

Have you forgotten about the inspiration you get from completing writs?

Apparently you have. Don't bother apologizing, your silence will suffice.

mike_de · August 2016

imnotanother wrote: »

Taia wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Get off your butts and farm the mats. 100% profit.

"There is no such thing as a free lunch. "

.......

Except the whole point of crafting dailies is to help u get mats that you need to craft..... The gold mats are just icing.... Right now its costing me mats.... Id rather just farm mats and NOT do the dailies for an even bigger profit.... Or is simple math a little hard for you to comprehend.... When something costs you more than what you get in return, its not a 100% profit.. Its a LOSS...... In this case a pretty sizeable one...

Simmer down

How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).

The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.

But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.

....................... Wow im really going to have to explain this step by step arent I.......

1. Farm mats.
2. Refine mats for gold tempers waxes etc
3. Sell refined mats

More profit than doing crafting dailies for equipment writs. Is this really so complex to understand? So educate me again on how you arrived at your 100% profit result?

It is in the quote. It is simple. You are making it hard.

1. Wrothgar, Hews Bane, and Gold Coast have mats...they are free to pick up. (Free)
2. Pick up writ quest. Make gear with free mats you farmed. (Free)
3. Turn in writs. (Free)
4. Open reward packages. (Free)
5. Receive XP, gold, glass frags,Gold upgrades, gear, and surveys. (Profit)
6. Sell upgrades/glass (profit)
7. Sell/decon gear (profit)
8. Farm surveys (free)
9. Refine mats (free)
10. Sell mats/ upgrades (profit)
11. Repeat

Where are you having a hard time understanding my point?

Crafting writs are not a source of gaining materials (considering it cost materials); it is a source to earn gold, XP, glass frags, gold upgrades.

No one argued that farming mats isn't a great way to make money either. Crafting writs are just another source.

Yikes, still doesn't get it.

prof·it
ˈpräfət/
noun
1.
a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.

I make money doing writs, more than it cost. (See list and definition above)

Crafting writs have NEVER rewarded more materials than it took to complete the quest.

I feel like I might be the only one that gets it.

Your time you gather the mats is missing in your calculation.

C4rt3r_H4ll · August 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That's why imho noone can say for everyone and in all cases that equipment writs are or are not profitable or worth/not worth doing.

It depends on the situation of the mats markets for each particular tier of writs, and it all evolves over time, mats prices can inflate or deflate by a factor of x10 in a matter of weeks.
All we need to do is to be careful and never assume that surveys are always profitable - they're not, and most of all, never assume they're meant for us to gather more mats. Clearly, they ALWAYS cost more mats than they bring.

See that's the thing that makes me wonder..... If they are not always profitable, and they take away more mats than they bring... Why refer to them as dailies.... Altho... its us players that refer to them as dailies.... Not ZOS. So maybe this is ZOS intention all along... For them to be a once in a while turn in things rather than every day.

Well... they're repeatable quests limited to once a day, so technically they're dailies.
I think players should always be able to assume safely that any activity available in the game will bring them some benefit (gold, XP, loot, whatever). If sometimes it's not the case, then it's flawed design from ZOS. You shouldn't actually have to wonder if you're shooting yourself in the foot when you pick up a quest.
That said, having to use my brain every now and then in the game is a nice thing. Brain is a bit underused in ESO.

First off the benefit(s) are PLAYING A GAME. The "sometimes it's not the case" is replay value.

Got to page 5 and couldn't stomach anymore of the dribble of pseudo economists without jumping to page 9 (end of thread at time of posting) and adding my 2 cents.My apologies to pages 6,7,and 8.

With that being said they ARE worth doing if your situation is anything like mine:

A) Blast Trials and/or Dungeons hoping for that one last piece of gear to complete your set,

Receive a bunch of fodder, such as "Ice Staff of the Viper"
C) Pick up writ(s) en route to crafting station
D) Use mats from fodder to complete writ
E) Repeat; by the time you finally get the item you want you have accumulated enough legendary mats to fully upgrade item while replenishing your stock of repair kits

Lord_Draevan · August 2016

According to the new Patch Notes v2.5.6:

"Clothier, Blacksmith, and Woodworker Surveys in Wrothgar no longer contain a mixture of CP 90-140 and CP 150-160 nodes, and now contain exclusively CP 150-160 nodes."

Hope it helps.

Lysette · August 2016

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Simmer down

How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).

The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.

But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.

I don't know... how about if I farm materials I can sell them on my guild store for a ton more than what I earn from Writs. So while you say it's 100% profit it's a stupid way to earn a profit. Plus have you never heard of time is money? If I have to spend time farming materials then I'm not spending that time doing dungeons or PvP or any other activity where I can earn a tone more gold than doing writs.

The change broke writs. I've done 15 clothing writs and got 1 survey, 1 survey from 15 writs = [snip]

Give up they do not understand it.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.

The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.

And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.

I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.

Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.

And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.

You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time

But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.

I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.

The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.

It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.

Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.

The choice is yours

And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...

It is not a matter of choice - as long as you have those materials they are asset - at market value - when you use them, your asset value goes down by what those materials are worth at market value - so that are your costs, because your asset value decrease by exactly that market value of those materials.

And just an advice, never start a business, you will not have fun with it.

Of course it's a matter of choice! Do I sell the flowers, or do I save them? That's a choice.

Who cares about your "asset value"? Gold is easy to get in this game, nobody can force you to sell your flowers.

But I'll play along, if you want to talk about asset value then don't forget to factor in your increase in skill, your ability to create potions for free instead of having to buy them. The assets that you lose when you use flowers... it's converted into a greater asset value in potions.

You might make a temporary gain in realizing your assets by selling those flowers or you might get your kicks saving them up and marvelling at your "asset value", but there's a much greater opportunity loss looming in the future when you start to wonder if it might have been better to learn to create your own potions rather than have to depend on the market for them.

Bean counters have a restricted short term view

you do not learn how to make potions by doing writs, simply because you do the same few potions over and over again - so do not come with that -. this has nothing to do with writs anymore.

[snip]

Have you forgotten about the inspiration you get from completing writs?

Apparently you have. Don't bother apologizing, your silence will suffice.

@I_killed_Vivec You seem to see learning just as gaining inspiration points, but you learn nothing about the ingredients from accumulating points, you just get access to more skills - I meant with it more finding out what all those ingredients do - as in research - and with this I do NOT mean google for it, but finding out by yourself - and you do not do that by doing writs - you have to do many different potions to figure out all the 4 features of each ingredient. Doing the same few potions over and over again with writs grants you "inspiration" which advance your level in that craft, yes, but you won't gain knowledge from it.

This is how I meant it.

Of course you can just google for what those ingredients do - but this is not playing the game, that is cheating basically - not forbidden in this case, but the whole purpose of having these features of ingredients hidden at first is to find it out by yourself. And that is what the achievements for any such ingredients are for - to reward you for your effort to finding that out by yourself by experimenting - and doing writs is not experimenting, but doing the same stuff over and over and over again.

And from you argumentation i gather, that you have not found out by yourself - otherwise you would know that it is work to find that out and that writs provide nothing in regards to gaining this knowledge.
[edited to remove quote]

Sweetpea704 · August 2016

I haven't done them since the change. I didn't even make back the mats, even with a Wrothgar Survey. Why would you give me void stone ore in my survey? I basically have no use for it anymore. It would literally be better to get iron ore, which I could sell for more gold or make training gear to put in my shop, than to get void stone. When you make changes like this, you have to consider the implications.

Lysette · August 2016

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

I haven't done them since the change. I didn't even make back the mats, even with a Wrothgar Survey. Why would you give me void stone ore in my survey? I basically have no use for it anymore. It would literally be better to get iron ore, which I could sell for more gold or make training gear to put in my shop, than to get void stone. When you make changes like this, you have to consider the implications.

Lol, that is really true - tons of void stone in guild stores, but iron is a lot more rare to find there.

I_killed_Vivec · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Simmer down

How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).

The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.

But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.

I don't know... how about if I farm materials I can sell them on my guild store for a ton more than what I earn from Writs. So while you say it's 100% profit it's a stupid way to earn a profit. Plus have you never heard of time is money? If I have to spend time farming materials then I'm not spending that time doing dungeons or PvP or any other activity where I can earn a tone more gold than doing writs.

The change broke writs. I've done 15 clothing writs and got 1 survey, 1 survey from 15 writs = [snip]

Give up they do not understand it.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, in alchemy they could - it is not necessary to just demand the same few ingredients all the time, there could be a lot more variety, especially not demand those which got more expensive due to poison making and which outweight the reward a new player gets for doing a writ - especially a new player should always have a decent reward from doing a writ or he will soon no longer want to do any of those.

The good thing about reagents is that they aren't weighted, there are no "rare" flowers. Anyone can find the more expensive flowers for themselves. This does mean that there is a big opportunity cost by using Columbine (say) for a potion instead of selling it, but that's the choice you have to make between being a crafter or a trader.

And new players do get a significant reward - inspiration, which is still given at level 50 even though by then it is meaningless.

I will give an example - cornflower - it was plenty available in guild stores before they got important due to alchemy changes - a newbie gets like 223 gold for a writ - something like that - if he needs 3 cornflower and those cost meanwhile around 100 a piece - he is f*cked - it is pointless to do the writ, but he does not know it, that he will shoot in his own foot by doing it.

Blessed Thistle is the other one, which got as well more expensive - and writs demand as well 3 of those.

And of course he is even more screwed, if he is using the basic recipe for a health potion, which he got from the instructor, because that is columbine and mountain flower - 400 gold he could get for columbine - but he might use it in a writ, because he is not yet aware of that he should experiment a bit to get other recipes - and he gets 223 gold for this writ - no wonder if a newbie will give up on doing these writs and rather picks flowers and sells them instead. What we get by this are grinders, not role players. - farmers instead of adventurers.

You only need one potion for each writ - two (different) flowers. With the correct skills you produce more than one potion - spares go into the bank for next time

But the point is that flowers cost nothing if you pick them yourself. Maybe a player should get a stock saved up before starting out doing writs. Same with the other materials.

I was talking about a newbie - and if you would havd paid attention to what is demanded - it is always a potion AND 3 ingredients. 2 in a potion and 3 extra = 5 are used. Sometimes the extra is water though, when it is ravage stamina it requires 3 water.

The notion of self-picked is free is for numb nuts, not for people with a brain - because the stuff you use has that value for which you could sell it on the market. It is not free. You did not have to pay for it, that is correct, but when you use it, you use the value those have on the market, because in the moment you use it, your asset value decreases by the market value of these ingredients.

It isn't "numb nuts", we've had 8 pages of that. You are making a decision... be a crafter and do writs or be a trader and sell the materials.

Either way the materials come for free because you just pluck them out of the ground. If you want to play shop then sell them. If you want to be a crafter then do the writs.

The choice is yours

And as I said, if you are a newbie and want to craft then maybe it's a good idea to build up a stock of materials first...

It is not a matter of choice - as long as you have those materials they are asset - at market value - when you use them, your asset value goes down by what those materials are worth at market value - so that are your costs, because your asset value decrease by exactly that market value of those materials.

And just an advice, never start a business, you will not have fun with it.

Of course it's a matter of choice! Do I sell the flowers, or do I save them? That's a choice.

Who cares about your "asset value"? Gold is easy to get in this game, nobody can force you to sell your flowers.

But I'll play along, if you want to talk about asset value then don't forget to factor in your increase in skill, your ability to create potions for free instead of having to buy them. The assets that you lose when you use flowers... it's converted into a greater asset value in potions.

You might make a temporary gain in realizing your assets by selling those flowers or you might get your kicks saving them up and marvelling at your "asset value", but there's a much greater opportunity loss looming in the future when you start to wonder if it might have been better to learn to create your own potions rather than have to depend on the market for them.

Bean counters have a restricted short term view

you do not learn how to make potions by doing writs, simply because you do the same few potions over and over again - so do not come with that -. this has nothing to do with writs anymore.

Such gross stupidity!

Have you forgotten about the inspiration you get from completing writs?

Apparently you have. Don't bother apologizing, your silence will suffice.

@I_killed_Vivec You seem to see learning just as gaining inspiration points, but you learn nothing about the ingredients from accumulating points, you just get access to more skills - I meant with it more finding out what all those ingredients do - as in research - and with this I do NOT mean google for it, but finding out by yourself - and you do not do that by doing writs - you have to do many different potions to figure out all the 4 features of each ingredient. Doing the same few potions over and over again with writs grants you "inspiration" which advance your level in that craft, yes, but you won't gain knowledge from it.

This is how I meant it.

Of course you can just google for what those ingredients do - but this is not playing the game, that is cheating basically - not forbidden in this case, but the whole purpose of having these features of ingredients hidden at first is to find it out by yourself. And that is what the achievements for any such ingredients are for - to reward you for your effort to finding that out by yourself by experimenting - and doing writs is not experimenting, but doing the same stuff over and over and over again.

And from you argumentation i gather, that you have not found out by yourself - otherwise you would know that it is work to find that out and that writs provide nothing in regards to gaining this knowledge.

It's hardly work to find them out for yourself, just commonsense and trial and error. A child could do it without being taxed

If you have a full stock of materials (see, I said stock up first) then it's just a matter of going through the combinations and takes a few minutes. It's not difficult, just like "learning" all the traits for clothing, woodworking and blacksmithing is not "difficult".

Levelling up is more time consuming than learning how the ingredients work - which is precisely why ZoS added inspiration into writs.

Though that wasn't available when I maxed out all the crafts

[edited to remove quote]

ScruffyWhiskers · August 2016

Looks like the writs now just yield top tier mats

Crafting & Economy
General
Clothier, Blacksmith, and Woodworker Surveys in Wrothgar no longer contain a mixture of CP 90-140 and CP 150-160 nodes, and now contain exclusively CP 150-160 nodes.

Thanks ZOS for the quick fix on this! Very cool.

Vindemiatrix · August 2016

I mathed out the cost of mats for gear construction versus the rewards, including cash and cash value of gear received and found I doubled my money. This was NOT including the value of the mats from awarded surveys and tempers received from refining those mats. If you only measure the base mats, you may end up with a loss, but there are other factors that will influence whether you make a net profit. Now that the surveys yield all high-end mats the writs are even more of a win.

CombatPrayer · August 2016

The only way they were really worth it is if they changed it so that it didn't require 130 of each to make those cp160 gears. Until then the front lines and war can do without anything from me in terms of armor or weapons. They ask far to much and give too little. Also, worth noting that by that time, you don't really need the boosts they might give you.

Now if everyone stops doing the writs there could be an unintended consequence of prices dropping because more people will have more mats to sell. That would be good. Right now these items cost quite a bit and for players who haven't done well with making gold in the game, they would have to farm forever to get those mats.

code65536 wrote: »

All because some people QQ'ed about finding Nightwood for top-tier writs.

The main problem is the deconstruction restriction. I get so much void-tier mats from decon of dungeon drops that my stockpile of that tier keeps growing and growing despite writ usage. But my top-tier stuff was barely keeping pace last patch. And is now definitely in a deficit.

What in bloody blazes were you thinking, ZOS?

As a result of having such an abundance of void because it is still a common drop when you are post cp160, it has made void not that far off from much lower level items. It's not far off from the price of steel and iron depending how MM spikes happen and if people are undercutting just to sell off their piles of it.

Vindemiatrix · August 2016

They don't require that... change the level to CP 150, you can turn those in for the highest level writs and it only uses 10-15 of the mat per piece @autumnsongbird

estera · August 2016

Here are some numbers for a week since Shadow if the Hist release.
I have 6 characters doing top-level blacksmith, clothier and woodworker writs.
I did not farm any material (from surveys or otherwise), but I've harvested several resource nodes I happen to run by.
All raw materials from hirelings were refined and all "Intricate" weapons were deconstructed.

By the end of the week my my bank is missing following materials:
Ruberite Ingots - 1759 x 34.92g, total cost 61'424g
Ancestor Silk - 1040 x 61.77g, total cost 64'240g
Rubedo Leather - 494 x 74.67g, total cost 36'887g
Ruby Ash - 1375 x 8.26g, total cost 11'357g

Shiny trinkets I've got in return:
Tempering Alloy - 15 x 9937.25g, total cost 149'058g
Dreugh Wax - 16 x 6989.47g, total cost 111'831g
Rosin - 11 x 2960.68g, total cost 32'567g

For this week I've lost materials worth 174k and got materials worth 293k.
Per character I've got about 20k in materials for a week, plus 14k rewards from quests plus gold from "Ornate" items and few surveys.

You can still be able to make a few coins on crafting writs, but they were nerfed to the ground.

Current prices for tier-9 and tier-10 materials:
Ingots: 15.4 vs. 34.92
Cloth: 6.41 vs. 61.77
Leather: 7.64 vs. 74.67
Wood: 17.93 vs. 8.26

Prior the patch gold from quests rewards and ornate items were sufficient to buy tier-9 materials required for the writs, so I was slowly building stocks of tier-10 materials and precious golden trinkets.
Now materials costs are increased 2-10 times and this is no longer an option.

With this new materials sink I would expect prices for tier-10 materials and tempers/wax/resin to go right to the sky.
Nice job nightwood whiners. You've got what you asked for, now you have to live with it.

lookstwice · August 2016

estera wrote: »

Here are some numbers for a week since Shadow if the Hist release.
I have 6 characters doing top-level blacksmith, clothier and woodworker writs.
I did not farm any material (from surveys or otherwise), but I've harvested several resource nodes I happen to run by.
All raw materials from hirelings were refined and all "Intricate" weapons were deconstructed.

By the end of the week my my bank is missing following materials:
Ruberite Ingots - 1759 x 34.92g, total cost 61'424g
Ancestor Silk - 1040 x 61.77g, total cost 64'240g
Rubedo Leather - 494 x 74.67g, total cost 36'887g
Ruby Ash - 1375 x 8.26g, total cost 11'357g

Shiny trinkets I've got in return:
Tempering Alloy - 15 x 9937.25g, total cost 149'058g
Dreugh Wax - 16 x 6989.47g, total cost 111'831g
Rosin - 11 x 2960.68g, total cost 32'567g

For this week I've lost materials worth 174k and got materials worth 293k.
Per character I've got about 20k in materials for a week, plus 14k rewards from quests plus gold from "Ornate" items and few surveys.

You can still be able to make a few coins on crafting writs, but they were nerfed to the ground.

Current prices for tier-9 and tier-10 materials:
Ingots: 15.4 vs. 34.92
Cloth: 6.41 vs. 61.77
Leather: 7.64 vs. 74.67
Wood: 17.93 vs. 8.26

Prior the patch gold from quests rewards and ornate items were sufficient to buy tier-9 materials required for the writs, so I was slowly building stocks of tier-10 materials and precious golden trinkets.
Now materials costs are increased 2-10 times and this is no longer an option.

With this new materials sink I would expect prices for tier-10 materials and tempers/wax/resin to go right to the sky.
Nice job nightwood whiners. You've got what you asked for, now you have to live with it.

Thanks for that.

What platform are those prices from because when I look in the guild stores I never see prices that low for mats. Well the ruby ash seems to match. Also the shiny trinkets seem higher than what I see as well.

But next time I have a chance, I'm going to change the numbers that seem to match what I see on the PC/NA side to see if after all that there would still be a net profit.

starkerealm · August 2016

mike_de wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Travy_2Hype wrote: »

But.. but.. they're so addicting!
However, they are a complete loss overall. Only thing I enjoy from them is getting the surveys, not to mention I still need the achievement for doing X amount of writs. After I hit that achievement, I'll most likely stop.

Provisioning, alchemy, and for the most part, Enchanting are still absolutely worth doing. If you just want the writ achievements, and don't care about getting it done right now, then those are a better route to go.

EDIT: I mean, that's the really confusing thing to me. The consumable writs actually help you build up a stockpile of useful materials. The equipment writs drain your material stockpiles on a dice roll for goodies, like glass pages and gold upgrade mats. I honestly don't know which is the intended outcome. Are writs supposed to be an expensive diceroll, or are they there to help players get the crafting mats they need to make the stuff they actually want?

I stopped doing equipment writs on level 30! You cannot get anything with them. They have to fix this system, because any person with half a brain sees, that this will not get you the real amount of money and time you invested in it, only gathering the mats.

They have to change the things, you get out of these writs. And the value has to reflect the amount and value of mats you put into it. Think about it: Someone who crafts things, has usually to live from the gains.

Even the experience gain is ridiculous. It does not match the skill of your crafters at all.

The writs in the crafting system are deeply flawed, like the whole loot system in ESO. It needs to be fixed.

Actually, that one's entirely untrue. Unfortunately... the current system is still wonky. And it makes the entire design philosophy at work here that much harder to parse out.

The Tier 9 equipment writs are actually very valuable. They pay out in Craglorn with a ridiculously high drop chance for Nirncrux. It's not as good at it once was, but this is still solid money in your pocket.

After Tier 10 writs became a thing, initially, they also paid out in Craglorn, still dropping Nirncrux at a much higher rate than normal.

At the same time Tier 10 writs became a thing, Glass pages got added into the writs. Used to be, those were very valuable, while people scrambled to complete that motif.

Once Wrothgar hit, the Tier 10 writs were neutered. Now there's no chance of nirncrux (and nothing valuable to replace it) available in Wrothgar. And since then, nothing's been updated. We're still here, wandering around confused.

estera · August 2016

lookstwice wrote: »

What platform are those prices from because when I look in the guild stores I never see prices that low for mats. Well the ruby ash seems to match. Also the shiny trinkets seem higher than what I see as well.

But next time I have a chance, I'm going to change the numbers that seem to match what I see on the PC/NA side to see if after all that there would still be a net profit.

I am on PC/EU. Prices are from Master Merchant addon, so they are based on actual sales of all guild members in guilds I am in (one major trading guild, two not-that-major trading guild and one non-trading guild with a kiosk).
From my experiences these prices are pretty close to offers you can find in kiosks.
Some legwork might be requires though - you can find lower prices in remote location.

By the way - I've forgot about 8% tax on guild sales, it will be about 24k or 4k per character.

boundsy88 · August 2016

If they hadnt nerfed where u go around stealing void tier mats and deconning them to get a stack of it in about 5-10 minutes, people wouldnt of complained about having to use them in writs. Now doing this only gives u 1 material per decon where it use to give u up to around 7 per decon. This nerf ultimately led to the problem we face now, and doing writs has now become inefficient to all who relied on it for gold and materials.

undefeatdgaul · August 2016

Vindemiatrix wrote: »

They don't require that... change the level to CP 150, you can turn those in for the highest level writs and it only uses 10-15 of the mat per piece @autumnsongbird

[snip] you can do that?? hahaha I cant believe it I didnt even think of that
[edited for profanity bypass]

starkerealm · August 2016

undefeatdgaul wrote: »

Vindemiatrix wrote: »

They don't require that... change the level to CP 150, you can turn those in for the highest level writs and it only uses 10-15 of the mat per piece @autumnsongbird

[snip] you can do that?? hahaha I cant believe it I didnt even think of that

Yeah, the T10 equipment writs only ever required v15 items. That said, it's still a terrible deal now.
[edited to remove quote]

undefeatdgaul · August 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

undefeatdgaul wrote: »

Vindemiatrix wrote: »

They don't require that... change the level to CP 150, you can turn those in for the highest level writs and it only uses 10-15 of the mat per piece @autumnsongbird

[snip] you can do that?? hahaha I cant believe it I didnt even think of that

Yeah, the T10 equipment writs only ever required v15 items. That said, it's still a terrible deal now.

really? still not worth it? Im at lvl 48 & 9/10 clothing right now, Ive done a couple writs with my spare mats but havent really got anything worth while except a dreugh wax but Im trying to figure out if I should even bother or I should just farm & decon everything
[edited to remove quote]

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2016

estera wrote: »

Here are some numbers for a week since Shadow if the Hist release.
I have 6 characters doing top-level blacksmith, clothier and woodworker writs.
I did not farm any material (from surveys or otherwise), but I've harvested several resource nodes I happen to run by.
All raw materials from hirelings were refined and all "Intricate" weapons were deconstructed.

By the end of the week my my bank is missing following materials:
Ruberite Ingots - 1759 x 34.92g, total cost 61'424g
Ancestor Silk - 1040 x 61.77g, total cost 64'240g
Rubedo Leather - 494 x 74.67g, total cost 36'887g
Ruby Ash - 1375 x 8.26g, total cost 11'357g

Shiny trinkets I've got in return:
Tempering Alloy - 15 x 9937.25g, total cost 149'058g
Dreugh Wax - 16 x 6989.47g, total cost 111'831g
Rosin - 11 x 2960.68g, total cost 32'567g

For this week I've lost materials worth 174k and got materials worth 293k.
Per character I've got about 20k in materials for a week, plus 14k rewards from quests plus gold from "Ornate" items and few surveys.

You can still be able to make a few coins on crafting writs, but they were nerfed to the ground.

Current prices for tier-9 and tier-10 materials:
Ingots: 15.4 vs. 34.92
Cloth: 6.41 vs. 61.77
Leather: 7.64 vs. 74.67
Wood: 17.93 vs. 8.26

Prior the patch gold from quests rewards and ornate items were sufficient to buy tier-9 materials required for the writs, so I was slowly building stocks of tier-10 materials and precious golden trinkets.
Now materials costs are increased 2-10 times and this is no longer an option.

With this new materials sink I would expect prices for tier-10 materials and tempers/wax/resin to go right to the sky.
Nice job nightwood whiners. You've got what you asked for, now you have to live with it.

I love the math. Thanks for taking the time to do that. You are missing a large component now that surveys have been updated. All the surveys are now dropping only CP 150-160 items, so you end up getting back a lot more mats. Personally, I have actually increased my amout of toons running this now. I do all 6 on 5 toons a day.

I do abandon the clother and blacksmith writ any time it asks for leather. Leather is still harder to come by and the blacksmith writ always requires approx 50% more materials on the same day. Practically, I probably drop both quests from 1-2 toons a day. I am certainly coming out ahead now.

Jazbay_Grape · August 2016

NO! Although, my toons look super angry whenever they are doing writs now for some reason. It's as if they hate work as much as I do.

SteveCampsOut · August 2016

imnotanother wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Get off your butts and farm the mats. 100% profit.

"There is no such thing as a free lunch. "

.......

Except the whole point of crafting dailies is to help u get mats that you need to craft..... The gold mats are just icing.... Right now its costing me mats.... Id rather just farm mats and NOT do the dailies for an even bigger profit.... Or is simple math a little hard for you to comprehend.... When something costs you more than what you get in return, its not a 100% profit.. Its a LOSS...... In this case a pretty sizeable one...

Simmer down

How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).

The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.

But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.

Wow, Simple math escapes you, or has the phrase "Time is Money" never been spoken in your presence? You're spending not just time but all of your mats for a diminishing return. If that escapes your grasp, you need to go back to school.

idk · August 2016

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Get off your butts and farm the mats. 100% profit.

"There is no such thing as a free lunch. "

.......

Except the whole point of crafting dailies is to help u get mats that you need to craft..... The gold mats are just icing.... Right now its costing me mats.... Id rather just farm mats and NOT do the dailies for an even bigger profit.... Or is simple math a little hard for you to comprehend.... When something costs you more than what you get in return, its not a 100% profit.. Its a LOSS...... In this case a pretty sizeable one...

Simmer down

How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).

The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.

But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.

Wow, Simple math escapes you, or has the phrase "Time is Money" never been spoken in your presence? You're spending not just time but all of your mats for a diminishing return. If that escapes your grasp, you need to go back to school.

The big picture may escape you. The gold matts are worth much and come regular enough.

nimander99 · August 2016

Still haven't done a writ since Orsinium dropped.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Get off your butts and farm the mats. 100% profit.

"There is no such thing as a free lunch. "

.......

Except the whole point of crafting dailies is to help u get mats that you need to craft..... The gold mats are just icing.... Right now its costing me mats.... Id rather just farm mats and NOT do the dailies for an even bigger profit.... Or is simple math a little hard for you to comprehend.... When something costs you more than what you get in return, its not a 100% profit.. Its a LOSS...... In this case a pretty sizeable one...

Simmer down

How is it not 100% profit? You farm mats, take said mats and craft writs, turn in writs and you are rewarded with gold, upgrade materials(able to be sold), gear (able to be sold/decon) glass frags(able to be sold), and surveys (where you can farm mats).

The process cost 0 gold. Using simple math... You make a 100% profit.

But go ahead and continue to be close minded and ignorant to common sense.

Wow, Simple math escapes you, or has the phrase "Time is Money" never been spoken in your presence? You're spending not just time but all of your mats for a diminishing return. If that escapes your grasp, you need to go back to school.

The big picture may escape you. The gold matts are worth much and come regular enough.

That right there is the reason to do writs. They are absolutely worth doing now that they have scaled the surveys, but admittedly, the recent change as a whole probably amounts to a small nerf in their value.