Why haven't you done a dungeon yet?

code65536 · August 2016

Tipsy wrote: »

I'd love to see 'public dungeon' versions of the other dungeons.

I hate public dungeons and delves. To this day, I still have not completed the Orsinium public dungeons.

I don't see the other people in public instances--delves and public dungeons--as potential friends. I see them as pesky nuisances who get in the way, ruin the narrative, and force me to waste my time waiting for bosses to respawn.

ESO is my first (and only) MMO. When I started this game last year, I had no idea what a "tank" even was. I had zero people in my friends list because nobody I know in real life plays this game. My first group dungeon was me making a fool of myself, light-attacking with a bow. I was the scrubbiest of scrubs.

I've made many friends since last year, almost all of them via group PvE content. I would join a pickup group in zone chat, and if things went well, I would add someone or someone would add me. And then I'd run with them more, get to know their friends, get invited to a guild that they're in, etc. It was especially nice to meet people with similar skill levels, because then we could "grow up together" and share in that learning experience.

If you want to make friends, the best way to do so is in these private group instances. Because unlike the trashy public dungeons, the content is designed for a team that works together. It requires coordination. It requires teamwork. It requires a preformed group. And that fosters personal connections far better than seeing some random person running around doing their own thing, often killing the same stuff you wanted to kill and forcing you to wait for respawns.

For people in this thread who say they haven't tried the group content because they don't think that they're good enough... I just want to reiterate that I used to be one of those people who had no idea how the game worked. A lot has changed since those days when I was the worst of the worst. I've cleared vMA, vMoL, and I cleared the veteran hard modes of the new Update 11 dungeons during the first week of the PTS. Just because you're bad doesn't mean you shouldn't try or that you can't improve, and I'm living proof of that.

Tipsy · August 2016

@code65536 The problem is that the challenge part is missing in the public dungeon ands delves as you know them.
I can kill all the public dungeon bosses by myself without the help of any players,ofcourse you see the other players as pesky nuisances who get in the way.
Because they are able to kill the bosses by themselves.
You see,there is no "greater challenge to overcome.You don't need the other player in the public dungeons.
There is no heat of battle where friendships could be formed
They indeed can only get in the way now when they kill one of the bosses before you arrive.
As the public dungeons are now,they might as well convert them to solo instances.

Its not that I would like the implemention of dungeons exactly like the public dungeons are now
They'd be impossible to solo,unlike the public dungeons you are used to.

code65536 · August 2016

Tipsy wrote: »

@code65536 The problem is that the challenge part is missing in the public dungeon ands delves as you know them.
I can kill all the public dungeon bosses by myself without the help of any players,ofcourse you see the other players as pesky nuisances who get in the way.
Because they are able to kill the bosses by themselves.
You see,there is no "greater challenge to overcome.You don't need the other player in the public dungeons.
There is no heat of battle where friendships could be formed
They indeed can only get in the way now when they kill one of the bosses before you arrive.
As the public dungeons are now,they might as well convert them to solo instances.

Its not that I would like the implemention of dungeons exactly like the public dungeons are now
They'd be impossible to solo,unlike the public dungeons you are used to.

And what about World Bosses? Most people can't solo world bosses, and even if they can, it's easier and faster in a group. Yet, do you see many people making friendships in those Wrothgar World Boss groups?

The reason why group dungeons work is that they are designed specifically for a 4-man group (well, due to power creep, you can solo most of the normals, but that's a separate issue). There are specific roles, a certain division of labor, there is needed coordination, and there is teamwork to deal with mechanics. For public dungeons or World Bosses, none of that is relevant--the other people are just there for extra DPS to help you kill faster.

And it is that need for coordination and communication that is the key. Not just plopping two people in the same room as an enemy.

Epona222 · August 2016

I do think one of the issues is lack of guild recruitment tools in game. It's really difficult for people to find a guild that does the stuff they want, whether it is regular runs to help people learn the mechanics, or elite guilds that do regular speed runs etc.

In this day and age when people are mostly connected to information that they want to access 24/7, it's kind of shoddy that there is no in-game way to find guilds that are recruiting, or to find members, other than to post messages in zone chat.

Evangelon · August 2016

I have played exactly 1 dungeon. The spidery one in Daggerfall (up in the marshes) and that was lead by a vet who pretty much ran through and we followed. Dont get me wrong, it was impressive and I enjoyed the tour but....

I still have no idea what the point was. I had no time to enjoy the scenery or appreciate the design.

I would love a group/guild that does 1 dungeon a day or two or three days for fun or Profit.

Fun: vets needing accomplishments on lower level dungeons / "correct" level groups looking to play through at a relaxed pace and actually enjoy the content.

Profit: those doing speed runs for effort/return ratios , those not wanting a vet tagging along / leading to spoil the xp

Its a curse of many MMOs that once the majority play a feature or area the content tends to get glossed over which takes away from the newbies opportunity to be awed and get the same atmosphere and experience.

I've done solo delves and enjoyed them but I cant help but feel I'm missing a lot of ESO because I havent been part of a team.

and yes, I have misgivings and misconceptions of my playstyle not being suitable because

a. I dont min/max or build to a template , b: I prefer to take my time over zerg-rushing, even if zerging is the better tactic and c: I dont know the ropes of group play and would need to be allowed fit in and adapt. Not sure how many players would have patience for that.

frethopper · August 2016

At 2 years, 3 months of playing ESO, I have completed relatively little group content. Most of the time I have to actively avoid it. The reasons:

1. Time constraints. I play the game on a 'little but often' basis, and I will generally have to exit the game quite rapidly when called away. ZOS just didn't design the game with this type of play in mind, which is nobodies fault, just the way it is.But it does disadvantage me somewhat, because its more difficult to get into group activities.

2. Difficulty. Some people love massive difficulty in dungeons. I personally don't enjoy this. I have plenty of challenges in my daily life. When I play ESO I want to wind down, not wind up.

3. Elitism. It is an unfortunate fact that some tunnel visioned players are openly intolerant of other players who do not fit into their own view of what a party member should be. Lets face it, we've all encountered them. They just want to get to the end as fast as possible, with no setbacks. If this isn't happening then that's YOUR fault, never theirs.

There is never a day that goes by when I don't wish it was possible to conquer a group dungeon solo (actually I can solo some of the easier ones). It wouldn't really matter to me if the rewards were lower. This probably sounds anti social, its not intended that way. I'd just like to complete the game's content in my own way. I'd happily group up and do it when I had more time.

Gargath · August 2016

What change I would like in dungeons is to slow down the progress a bit.

Now it's just fast run from one mobs to another, quick kill and boss, again mobs and boss, up to the final boss.

Doing the same way all the time became boring, if multiple dungeons means just different monsters and sometimes a bit different mechanics.

Also I think most people have no time to admire the craftsmanship of developers who did such a great job in creating those underground areas - simply nobody is interested to enjoy reading a lorebook inside or to stop for a while and dance.

All dungeons the same way. No puzzles, other slow downs which could require participation of all 4 players. Like those skill-point-puzzle-game from Na-Totambu public dungeon in Alik'r.

So less speed runs - more slowdowns, less running for a prize - more fun.

Evangelon · August 2016

hmmmm, if I knew anythign about setting up a guild I might be tempted to start one for casual PUG dungeon play. Something like The Tamriel Tunnel Touring Troupe (5T) .... might take a look later on.

if I knew anything about the dungeons and requirements I would even be tempted to lead some unfortunates into sessions filled with the infliction of suffering, pain, looting, hacking, slashing and general unpleasantness....and thats just the mob actions against the party...

MopeyHat · August 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

I do think one of the issues is lack of guild recruitment tools in game. It's really difficult for people to find a guild that does the stuff they want, whether it is regular runs to help people learn the mechanics, or elite guilds that do regular speed runs etc.

In this day and age when people are mostly connected to information that they want to access 24/7, it's kind of shoddy that there is no in-game way to find guilds that are recruiting, or to find members, other than to post messages in zone chat.

I'm starting to wonder about if we could get a third-party LFG tool for dungeon buddies and guilds. Something a player can make an ad on, so to speak, or reply to ads, in an asynchronous manner. Would need to be searchable by playtimes and how much experience you want in a group.

I'd love to ask ZOS for it, but that would never happen, judging by how much development time their site actually gets.

MopeyHat · August 2016

jason.farinab16_ESO wrote: »

hmmmm, if I knew anythign about setting up a guild I might be tempted to start one for casual PUG dungeon play. Something like The Tamriel Tunnel Touring Troupe (5T) .... might take a look later on.

if I knew anything about the dungeons and requirements I would even be tempted to lead some unfortunates into sessions filled with the infliction of suffering, pain, looting, hacking, slashing and general unpleasantness....and thats just the mob actions against the party...

I once made a guild called Unmatched as a bit of a joke on the group finder. Then my hard drive died and by the time I came back, the players were gone. Now it make for a nice personal guild bank.

I don't think I'm really up to getting another guild started, but I would love to see the concept revived. Perhaps I'll look around the recruitment forums as well.

Saucy_Jack · August 2016

The reasons I haven't done more than three or four dungeon runs are as follows:

a) lack of experience, which yes, I know, will only stop being an issue if I actually DO dungeons runs.

b) I'm definitely what one would call a casual player - punc sweep punc sweep radiant destruction for pve mobs. That's partly because I'm playing the game on my laptop with the laptop keyboard and trackpad instead of some uber-mouse with a bajillion button presets, and partly because if a build rotation involves drinking a pot every 5.6 seconds while switching to my back bar to proc an ability on my off-hand weapon set, I'm not interested, because I'm getting older by the second and having a hand free every now and then to sip my cup of coffee is incredibly important to me. INCREDIBLY.

c) I don't mind the ingame chat, but of course when doing dungeon runs everyone expects you to be on teamspeak, which, due to past experience, isn't particularly a desirable option, as I don't particularly feel like getting yelled at in my own home.

d) I'm a PVE player at heart, which means that when I do dungeons for the first time, I want to hear the quest dialogue (or at least have time to read it), see the scripted events, etc.. I'm also an avid harvest-mapper, so I'm the guy looking around the dungeons for heavy sacks or locked chests while doing the run. Both of these goals are incompatible with most dungeon-runners' priority of "get in, get out, in as little time as possible".

e) Lastly, I'm a bit of a pragmatist. I COULD spend two hours learning the ropes on a single dungeon, OR I could spend that two hours grinding mobs and farming mats, which a) will give me more exp over the long haul (I'm only at 387 CP, not cap) and b) more gold from selling stuff over the long haul. So to spend 30 minutes on a boss fight only to wipe and have to start the fight all over is, to me, a bit offputting as I'm getting older by the second and thirty minutes down the drain is thirty minutes down the drain. I don't have the play-time schedule to allow for a lot of wasted time.

Now, with all that said, if you've mastered all the vet dungeons and find yourself with two other dungeon-runner extraordinaires, feel free to hit me up so you can carry my sorry butt through the vet dungeons while I hang back and map sacks and chests and read quest dialogue, as I could use the extra skill points!

JJBoomer · August 2016

I've done pretty well with the dungeon group finder and have only twice had a group that couldn't pull of a complete run. But i've never had any hard feelings or any negativity from any of the random people i've partied with.

Granted I mostly do normal dungeons because I don't feel like I'm good enough to do vet ones (though i have done them a few times by accident). And I certainly do not want to be carried.

So I tend to stay away from vet dungeons and i'll probably stay away from pledges and trials because people take them too seriously to make them any fun. I'm a person that can still have an insane amount of fun even when dying and losing, but high level raiding, people take it too seriously, as if it has some real life ramifications. And that is just not fun for me. And the reason i play this game is to have fun.

So I'm pretty happy to leave the high level players to their spaces where they "need" to win. And I'll stay pugging in lower lvl dungeons being an average, but happy player. =D

code65536 · August 2016

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

will give me more exp over the long haul (I'm only at 387 CP, not cap)

What's the point of having CP if you don't participate in endgame content, though?

Evangelon · August 2016

because champion points can be applied to non-endgame toons to make solo-content more survivable

Fruitmass · August 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

will give me more exp over the long haul (I'm only at 387 CP, not cap)

What's the point of having CP if you don't participate in endgame content, though?

Personal enjoyment and/or purely happenstance? It's kind of unavoidable to some extent, gaining CP will just happen by simple virtue of playing the game. It might not be something they're intentionally aiming to do, more like a fringe benefit.

Kippesnikke · August 2016

MopeyHat wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Because i like to build my character MY way not do any pre-determined cheese builds.
I have a group occasionally that just wants to have fun in dungeons and does give a hook about achievements.

I'm pretty torn when it comes to builds.

I love the idea of playing the way you want, making something totally different from the rest. Surprising someone in PvP with something they weren't expecting is one of my favorites.

On the other hand, there are a bunch of particular builds that vastly outperform the rest in terms of DPS. And it's these builds that get used by endgame players, and in turn it's these builds that future content gets built upon. It's my hope that dungeon designers continue to move towards fun mechanics rather than stack and burn DPS races.

if you have a group that can pull 25k dps pp (wich is very doable) you should be able to clear all content in this game.

DenMoria · August 2016

Don't want groups, don't want friends. Had to switch to EU because there were so many super wired players bouncing around everywhere like crazy people. No chance to collect any resources because level 60+ players are zooming about killing everything and taking every resource.

It's just irritating.

I may come from the single player world, but I enjoy helping other anonymous folks when given the opportunity, but the last thing I want is for most of the bozos around to be ordering me to do things that make no sense and speed running everything out there just for some pointless achievement and meaningless loot.

I'll stick with basically solo with the occasional hookup if I see someone having trouble and needing help.

No problem with teamwork but don't take orders well. I'll get the job done, but I won't have you telling me that I'm doing it wrong when I'm the one still alive and I've had to revive you twice 'cause you're too stupid to stay out of the red or decide that you, and only you, should be the one to take on that group of mobs.

And I hate all of you high level characters that have decided that farming the starter zones is "fun", leaving the rest of us out in the cold. What the heck do you need iron and maple for, let alone a bunch of white and green ingredients.

I think it's time for another break from ESO, or maybe I'll just stay stealth long enough to get to the power level I need to kill you all.

In the meantime, I'll stick with EU. It's not so insanely competitive and doesn't have nearly so many annoying players.

Burning_Talons · August 2016

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Being that this is a topic near and dear to my heart I appreciate this discussion. There is a lot of good information here. Regarding the difficulty - the normal versions of Dungeons we are pretty happy with difficulty wise, but if the general perception is that they are too difficult we will definitely take a look. For Veteran Difficulty, it may be an issue where a couple of Dungeons skew perception about them as a whole. This is something we are very much looking at for future content and as we adjust older content. Part of the concern players have also stems from the pledge system and how players are rewarded. We hope to have that issue addressed in the future as well

Great discussion folks, keep it coming!

Here lies the post that fortold the doom of the fun but now boring VCoA VWGT

Tipsy · August 2016

code65536 wrote: »

And what about World Bosses? Most people can't solo world bosses, and even if they can, it's easier and faster in a group. Yet, do you see many people making friendships in those Wrothgar World Boss groups?

The reason why group dungeons work is that they are designed specifically for a 4-man group (well, due to power creep, you can solo most of the normals, but that's a separate issue). There are specific roles, a certain division of labor, there is needed coordination, and there is teamwork to deal with mechanics. For public dungeons or World Bosses, none of that is relevant--the other people are just there for extra DPS to help you kill faster.

And it is that need for coordination and communication that is the key. Not just plopping two people in the same room as an enemy.

Havent been to Wrothgar so wouldn't know about the worldbosses there.
In many dungeons people are just there to help kill faster too.
Coordination and communication is needed in the best case,when bosses provide a challenge.
Which is not the case for most dungeon bosses.

Epona222 wrote: »

I do think one of the issues is lack of guild recruitment tools in game. It's really difficult for people to find a guild that does the stuff they want, whether it is regular runs to help people learn the mechanics, or elite guilds that do regular speed runs etc.

In this day and age when people are mostly connected to information that they want to access 24/7, it's kind of shoddy that there is no in-game way to find guilds that are recruiting, or to find members, other than to post messages in zone chat.

Finding like minded people is very important and there is no real ingame system that helps there,no.
This is also part of the problem I think.

I'm not sure about dungeons being more like public dungeons..would probably mean they'd have to redesign most of the dungeons @code65536
If the dungeons where more like public dungeons though,it would be easier to find like minded people while playing I think.
Its not as simple as plopping 2 people in the same room as an enemy no,
but if there is a challlenge where players need help.Its easier to connect to people who are in that situation.
In eso players are up to many many things and the group finder tries to fit the puzzle pieces together,but can't

elvigy01 · August 2016

Evangelon wrote: »

I have played exactly 1 dungeon. The spidery one in Daggerfall (up in the marshes) and that was lead by a vet who pretty much ran through and we followed. Dont get me wrong, it was impressive and I enjoyed the tour but....

I still have no idea what the point was. I had no time to enjoy the scenery or appreciate the design.

I would love a group/guild that does 1 dungeon a day or two or three days for fun or Profit.

Fun: vets needing accomplishments on lower level dungeons / "correct" level groups looking to play through at a relaxed pace and actually enjoy the content.

Profit: those doing speed runs for effort/return ratios , those not wanting a vet tagging along / leading to spoil the xp

Its a curse of many MMOs that once the majority play a feature or area the content tends to get glossed over which takes away from the newbies opportunity to be awed and get the same atmosphere and experience.

I've done solo delves and enjoyed them but I cant help but feel I'm missing a lot of ESO because I havent been part of a team.

and yes, I have misgivings and misconceptions of my playstyle not being suitable because a. I dont min/max or build to a template , b: I prefer to take my time over zerg-rushing, even if zerging is the better tactic and c: I dont know the ropes of group play and would need to be allowed fit in and adapt. Not sure how many players would have patience for that.

Pretty much this for me as well. I'm not too worried about my build though I'm sure that there's room for improvement. But I'm a lot worried about not being able to take my time and get to experience the dungeons and learn the ropes. I don't enjoy being forced to speed run when I don't really get what's going on. I guess I need to find a very casual guild that is OK with going slow.

Lysette · August 2016

After reading all of the posts I have decided to just not do any of the group content - it is not for me and never will be.

Bromburak · August 2016

MopeyHat wrote: »

I keep seeing people say they've never done a dungeon, or only done one or two.

What keeps you out of dungeons? Is it the dungeon finder being glitchy? Players turn you off? Does PvP or roleplaying keep you busy?

I actually don't see any improvement in endgame progress or characters development 50+.
Providing a CP system was a nice idea but to be honest this is only a temporary goal and more for new players and casuals.

It's hard to explain, but raiding and game difficulty should raise with player experience and skills.

Lets say I have finished the same Vet dungeon 50 or 100 times, give me a reward like a buff for groups or
tokens to buy special skills for raiding or any other content and then unlock nightmare modes or add new challenges for such players. This is much better than silly Gear score concepts that you find in any other game.

Beside the fun we have when playing ESO give us reasons for raiding especially when we play since Beta ...
That's why I think it's important that MMOs should provide progress that makes sense for everyone not only for casuals and new players.

You might remember when Matt Firor said "ESO has no hardcore gamers" , what he meant are statistics that customers having breaks in between DLCs. The reason why they have breaks because there is nothing todo.
If ZOS would provide cool progress there is no reason to have a break you just have fun playing current content ...

Dungeons and groups have a lot of potential but imo PvE progress and PvP mission objectives are questionable motivations in ESO. Compare Relic raids, keep raids and the possibility to buy abilties from realm ranks in DAOC with ESO and you might get an idea what I mean with creativity long term goals for 50+. Today there is barely a "No pain, no gain" mentality in MMOs, because you don't want to *** off gamers that are being frustrated because content is to hard, that's fine just don't stop progress and make players "work" for their rewards.

I guess @ZOS_Finn would agree that it makes more sense to design default difficulties and rewards matching majority of players (casuals) nowadays. The side effect is that it lacks in rewarding progress for any character development 50+.
Like offering a vast amount of rng equipment. Farming trophies in IC for Agility and Willpower is one thing and time/effort is good enough. But running several times the dungeons for terrible drops is not really a good rewarding or motivating system for groups.

And if ESO wants to address casuals and randoms for raiding dungeons then why we have a terrible implementation of a dungeon finder? You wait forever in a queue and when your group mates leave yourself is getting punished with time penality to join the search again. Seriously , why would player ever run a random dungeon again with sloppy features like this? It's very bad usability.

Florial · August 2016

I did some dungeons early on in the game right around launch with my hubby and some long term gaming buddies. Sadly, they have left and I can't get my spouse to join me in ESO. It is really a shame because we used to be such a great team with him tanking and me healing. Since I've been back, I've done a few dungeons but really haven't attempted them in months. My reasons are varied. For the most part, the community is pretty nice in this game however I find that these days, the player base (in almost any MMO) is impatient and adverse to any type of failure. The first hint of a problem, the group dissolves. I remember waaay back when I first started playing MMOs, people seemed to stick together a bit more---figuring out a fight and not quitting at the first sign of problems. I guess that now, one is expected to know all the dungeons watching YouTube videos and knowing the mechanics inside and out. This is especially frustrating if I've never been there before, want to read the text but alas, it is go, go, go. My enjoyment of group content admittedly has been eroding over the years because of this zero tolerance of any mistakes or speed run mentality. I have enough stress in my life right now and don't have the energy to deal with this in a game.

I really do enjoy the group content many MMOs have to offer and some of my best times in MMOs have been playing with others. My most fond memories have been playing with other adults who tend to be on the older side. The dungeons in ESO from what I remember are loads of fun. It would be nice to see the new ones and to experience them with a nice group.

I think that once I finish up Caldwell's Gold with my mage, I will attempt to start doing dungeons and just put the nasty folks on ignore. Really do need to start growing my friends list as well.

Contraptions · August 2016

I used to be an avid group content runner, be it dungeons or trials or even Craglorn quests but over time the amount of time I spend running such content has decreased greatly since I no longer find much enjoyment from those activities anymore. I suppose one of the reasons was the recent trend of making the vet trials, be it vDSA, vMA and the rest ridiculously difficult (although tedious is probably a better word) compared to normal trials. Massive damage sponges, crazy amounts of damage that one or two shot most people, fights with trash and bosses taking ages while the same set of mechanics just repeat themselves over and over, I honestly don't find that fun. It's not that I can't do the content, it's just that it's really boring after a while. If I want Dark Souls style difficulty, I'd rather go play Dark Souls. Challenge is overrated anyway.

Cryptical · August 2016

@ZOS_Finn
Some of the most fun fights I've had were going back to earlier areas and soloing the group bosses. Root sunder, for one, was fun circling around around around keeping the never ending stream of skeletons from overwhelming me while knocking the bone colossus down. That was when I had many fewer champ points and crappier gear, though.

Yesterday I had a lot of fun with that big arse troll Ironfang in the Gold Coast. I happened to be the only person there at the moment, looking to farm and decided to see if there was anything special triggered if he got all 15 cages open. So I spent what felt like forever dancing out f his reach and rolling under his knees, carefully destroying the released animals without killing him.

Another fun time I had was as the last one left alive in darkshade, the netch cavern. I'm grinding down most of the netchlings, slowly backing up in a circle to keep them in the cone of Sweeps and the rest of the group got dead-ified one by one, and the balance of the netchlings crowd me so thoroughly you literally cannot pick out a single digit off the scrolling combat text. Health is going from full to 5% to full to 5% like a windshield wiper, the netch pounding sounds like some rock and roll drummer overdosing on speed, and I manage to keep going for another couple moments until the game lagged just enough to delay the sweeps.

Most non-fun are when the goal seems unachievable. Getting one-shot dropped is one thing, a change of tactics or build can make all the difference. But sometimes it has seemed as if *every* avenue to success has been blocked off. When a mob has inexhaustible resources while shrugging off your physical and magical and crowd control attacks, that feels like a useless fight to be abandoned and ignored on other characters. One such for me was the quest line where you find some shipwreck survivors and have to track down the daughter, eventually learning that the captain was hired to make the daughter's betrothed disappear. That captain.... Screw that. She always had enough stam to break free and would successfully hit with mass hysteria multiple times in a row. Spent days on that one, and this is when I was over the quest level.

I'm a bit worried over the ability to go back and do earlier content, what with the One Tamriel talking about doing some sort of universal battle leveling for everyone. I like the idea that a task is hard for a group of lower level yet a higher level can come along and solo it. That's what the real world is like - things that take a group of kids can be done by a solo adult. A 'group event' for kids such as getting the cookie jar from the high shelf does not scale up to remain a 'group event' for adults.

Hallothiel · August 2016

@Cryptical
Yes - that is how I feel exactly!

Some things should be hard, some things easy. It's how you learn. Love being able to go back & solo stuff that was damned hard when first met. And it's not always as easy as you think it might be..... so it makes you think about how you play rather than just button mashing & hoping for the best. Don't want to lose that but think I will in One Tamriel. .....

Uriel_Nocturne · August 2016

Well, there's quite a bit of difference of opinion, and many people say "dungeon" when there's quite a bit of difference in the types of dungeons to run.

So I'll break it down based on my perception of "dungeons".

1) Delves: These are the little dungeons all over every Zone marked with a little torch icon. I run in them and Solo them all the time. I love Delves. They give me the sense of adventure, with some challenge to be had, but definitely can be run Solo. Of all the "dungeons" in Tamriel, Delves are my favorite.

2) Public Dungeons: These are the ones marked with the "cave opening" icon. I generally Solo these as well with my Magicka Templar. Sometimes I'll group up with people already in there, but usually by going "low and slow" I can run through them Solo with just a little effort and some planning.

3) Group Dungeons: These are the ones marked with the "cave opening" icon that has the plus sign added onto it, like Fungal Grotto in Stonefalls. These I don't really ever go into. I think that since this game launched (both on PC and Console), I've tackled... two Group Dungeons? I really only ever play Solo, as I don't ever have a static group of players ready to go. Since I don't have a lot of friends in this game, add in the necessity to have a cohesive group to tackle these challenges, I really don't have any motivation to take these dungeons on.

4) Trials: These are the ones with the Monster Heads superimposed over the icon for the dungeon. These (IIRC) require a twelve man group to tackle (like the Maw of Lorkhan). I have never run a Trial in this game. Not that I don't think my MagTemplar is weak or anything, but I run into the same issues that I explained in #3, but exacerbated three-fold.

Now; while I could probably use the Group Tool to find a PUG for the group effort Dungeons, I (again) have no motivation to do so. Unless I'm running around with my wife, I rarely ever group up. When I'm running with my wife, she likes it to be just the two of us. The rest of the time I play, it's usually at a time of night where my wife has gone to bed. I then sit at the end of the bed and knock out a couple hours of adventuring before turning in myself.

In order for me to be effective in a Group effort, I would need to communicate with my Group, but the talking over any type of headset would wake my wife. So I don't ever group up because I don't want to disturb her.

My other reason is purely selfish. I don't want to be reliant on other people to determine my success/failure in a Dungeon. If I'm Solo'ing a dungeon-run and I fail, I have only myself to blame. If I'm grouped, I don't want my failure to be tied to someone else not doing their job in combat.

I love that Tamriel is a living, breathing world; and I love seeing all of the other people running around in my vicinity. But I really dislike grouping together with people, especially people I don't know well.

As I said, my Templar is strong enough. I'm running a Magicka Templar with 5x Julianos, 4x Seducer. I use Explosive Charge, toss my three fireballs, and spam my stabby-sticks-of-death. All my gear is improved to Gold and I'm sitting on 467 CP's. I can hang in a dungeon easily with my DPS (though it's not PvP-l33t DPS, because I have no interest in the PvP in any game...).

I just have no motivation to group with people, hence I have no motivation to tackle any of the dungeons that require a group of any kind.

laurajf · August 2016

I don't run group content.

I'm in my mid 40s, I work full-time and I have a busy home life. Gaming for me is to wind down, relax, take my time, smell the roses, etc. I play what I want, how I want and when I want. I want a story to entertain me and take away the stress of the day.

I can't imagine anything sucking the fun out of a game more than having to play a certain way/use a certain skill rotation/having to preplan a play session/not be able to get up and do something else whenever I feel like it, etc. The thought of having to min-max, create and/or follow a spreadsheet of numbers to eek out the smallest percentage more of some stat is a terrible thought. For me, that's not gaming. The world created by the devs, the lives of the NPCs, the details of the scenery and all that good stuff is what I pay for and look forward to immersing myself in when I can (and I don't even RP). I imagine the devs would appreciate knowing some of us truly enjoy the dialog that was written and the details each one of them put into the game to create this stunning world.

At this point in my life, I would prefer single-player games but there is a serious lack of them out there right now that give the depth of stuff to do that MMOs provide. I've already played to death the ones I enjoyed for many years after they came out.

I guess in the end, the reason I don't run group content is I'm not willing to give up my own personal enjoyment of gaming. To me, group content means having to do stuff I don't want to do, being rushed, being expected to do certain things certain ways, having high expectations put on me and having to coordinate my play time. It potentially means getting berated, belittled and told what to do. To me, that can also describe my job except I get paid to do that.

Considering I pay for the pleasure of my gaming, I am going to get my money's worth and do only what I enjoy. Obviously that isn't the group stuff. As long as ESO can provide me with enough to do, I'll continue to pay my monthly subscription and buy every mount and outfit and whatever else I fancy from the store because I'd rather change my hair every day, put on a different outfit, ride a different mount and have that kind of stuff than end-game gear.

PlagueMonk · August 2016

Depends on which dungeon.

I have done "most" but a few still elude me like vWGT. I seem to have missed the boat (was PvPing most of the time when it first came out). Now the only people who run it reuqire "experience". Well DAMMIT I would LOVE to learn the mechanics and go in there but getting anyone to teach and be a bit patient is like pulling teeth.

This also appears to be happening ALREADY with the 2 new vet 4 mans.....IT"S ONLY BEEN A ********* week!

Really pisses me off when the say "experienced only" or I join an get booted because I don't know the battles ...Well how in THE hell am I supposed to get that experience??? Elitist ***********.

Uriel_Nocturne · August 2016

laurajf wrote: »

I don't run group content.

I'm in my mid 40s, I work full-time and I have a busy home life. Gaming for me is to wind down, relax, take my time, smell the roses, etc. I play what I want, how I want and when I want. I want a story to entertain me and take away the stress of the day.

I can't imagine anything sucking the fun out of a game more than having to play a certain way/use a certain skill rotation/having to preplan a play session/not be able to get up and do something else whenever I feel like it, etc. The thought of having to min-max, create and/or follow a spreadsheet of numbers to eek out the smallest percentage more of some stat is a terrible thought. For me, that's not gaming. The world created by the devs, the lives of the NPCs, the details of the scenery and all that good stuff is what I pay for and look forward to immersing myself in when I can (and I don't even RP). I imagine the devs would appreciate knowing some of us truly enjoy the dialog that was written and the details each one of them put into the game to create this stunning world.

At this point in my life, I would prefer single-player games but there is a serious lack of them out there right now that give the depth of stuff to do that MMOs provide. I've already played to death the ones I enjoyed for many years after they came out.

I guess in the end, the reason I don't run group content is I'm not willing to give up my own personal enjoyment of gaming. To me, group content means having to do stuff I don't want to do, being rushed, being expected to do certain things certain ways, having high expectations put on me and having to coordinate my play time. It potentially means getting berated, belittled and told what to do. To me, that can also describe my job except I get paid to do that.

Considering I pay for the pleasure of my gaming, I am going to get my money's worth and do only what I enjoy. Obviously that isn't the group stuff. As long as ESO can provide me with enough to do, I'll continue to pay my monthly subscription and buy every mount and outfit and whatever else I fancy from the store because I'd rather change my hair every day, put on a different outfit, ride a different mount and have that kind of stuff than end-game gear.

I wish I could give you an "Agree" and an "Awesome".

This also goes along with my post just above yours.

I also am 40, have a 40+ hour full time job, two teenage kids, and a wife whose company I adore. I play my MMO's to relax. To unwind, and to lose myself in another world for those few precious 2-3 hours per night (and quite frequently lately, I don't even get those full 2-3 hours).

I don't want to have to take the time to acclimate to someone's idea of how I should be playing my character.

I just want to play. I just want to unwind and lose myself in this richly rendered, gorgeous, content-packed world. I don't want ESO to seem like a second career.

*** Unless there's a paycheck involved. If there's a regular paycheck, I can justify a career change... lol ***

But often I find (on the few rare times I have had the urge to knock out a Group Dungeon) that the "leader" of the group starts demanding that I respec my character to fit into the "mold" that the leader thinks all the players characters should fit into... and that just sucks all of the fun out of the game for me.